Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

[John Cribati]

Its not even that. Its just a really bad case of "show, don't tell."

“Character gets flustered and blushy at the idea of being physically intimate with Other Character” is about as much of a “show” as you can get when trying to bring across attraction, unless you want Jeph to work blue.

We are told that Clinton is attracted to Elliot. There has been very little time devoted to looking at Clinton's feelings about Elliot, and a lot of soul searching about whether he is gay overall.

And frankly, absent the predetermined idea that Clinton is attracted to Elliot, this whole sequence changes wildly in tone. If you need to spend that much time thinking about whether you're superficially attracted to somebody, you probably arent.

Or... maybe you’re being shown exactly what you need to be told- Clinton is superficially attracted to Elliott. As in, there is not much actual romance going on on Clinton’s part, just an attempt at navigating a newfound attraction to someone he once considered platonically.

The romantic/crush feelings have largely been coming from the Elliott side of the equation, so things between them coming off as awkward and non-romantic seems like the exact point to me.

[Keltest]

“Character gets flustered and blushy at the idea of being physically intimate with Other Character” is about as much of a “show” as you can get when trying to bring across attraction, unless you want Jeph to work blue.



Or... maybe you’re being shown exactly what you need to be told- Clinton is superficially attracted to Elliott. As in, there is not much actual romance going on on Clinton’s part, just an attempt at navigating a newfound attraction to someone he once considered platonically.

The romantic/crush feelings have largely been coming from the Elliott side of the equation, so things between them coming off as awkward and non-romantic seems like the exact point to me.

One strip really isn't enough "show" to me. And maybe its just me being cynical, but at this point i don't have a lot of faith in the possibility that Clinton will break things off at this point. Jeph clearly thinks they do have actual chemistry, and I would be shocked if he changes his mind this late in the arc.

[Mechalich]

Or... maybe you’re being shown exactly what you need to be told- Clinton is superficially attracted to Elliott. As in, there is not much actual romance going on on Clinton’s part, just an attempt at navigating a newfound attraction to someone he once considered platonically.

Yeah. I think a big part of what's happening on Clinton's end is that he's discovering that he's at somewhat attracted to men and Elliot represents an attractive man who fits his type.

Also, there's simply not an especially large number of male characters in the comic at this point, especially who are single. the list is basically Clinton, Elliot, and Sven. In order to do a gay romance subplot at all, Clinton and Eliot were basically the only characters available. I think Jeph's desire to do a gay romance outweighed any consideration as to whether it made sense for the available cast.

[Wraith]

Jeph, I have some bad news for you, mate.

The year is 2021.
Claire is 24(?) years old.
Console games haven't used cartridges since the Gamecube in 2001, when it was already a dead medium. They were put on life support when the PS1 came out in 1994 and barely drew a shaky breath when Pokemon hit the Gameboy in 1996.
Even if Claire took up an interest in video games aged 1 year old, she *is*currently* a vintage gamer.

These damn kids and their 'silly old vidya games', get off my lawn, etc.

“Character gets flustered and blushy at the idea of being physically intimate with Other Character” is about as much of a “show” as you can get when trying to bring across attraction, unless you want Jeph to work blue.

I must admit, I had a different interpretation of Clinton's response. He did the red faced/blushing thing when he went on a date with Emily and he realised how pretty she was in a cute dress. He also did something similar when Brun cornered him at the bar to ask about her deodorant, and he's doing it again today when discussing his sexy robot poster.

The vibe that I'm getting from Clinton is more like that he's a virgin who is easily flustered by ANYTHING sexual, least of all Claire's graphic and imaginative impromptu slash-fic. I'm not saying that you're wrong, of course, but I haven't yet seen him react to Elliot in a way that he says that *Elliot* is specifically the important part of the fantasy, y'know?

[John Cribati]

The vibe that I'm getting from Clinton is more like that he's a virgin who is easily flustered by ANYTHING sexual, least of all Claire's graphic and imaginative impromptu slash-fic. I'm not saying that you're wrong, of course, but I haven't yet seen him react to Elliot in a way that he says that *Elliot* is specifically the important part of the fantasy, y'know?

Note that the rest of my post goes on to say how to me, Clinton’s attraction to Elliott reads as superficial.

[Wraith]

I know, my second part was meant to come across as agreement - I beg your pardon if that wasn't clear.

[Keltest]

Shifting gears for a moment, is it just me or does Clinton look like he has a rash on his face in the last panel? I know theoretically he and Claire have freckles, but they werent drawn in any other panel.

[Willie the Duck]

Shifting gears for a moment, is it just me or does Clinton look like he has a rash on his face in the last panel? I know theoretically he and Claire have freckles, but they werent drawn in any other panel.

I believe that's him blushing, because he is embarrassed.

[Keltest]

I believe that's him blushing, because he is embarrassed.

I get that, but its drawn differently than when he usually blushes. Its specifically the freckles that dont appear in any other panel this page.

[Willie the Duck]

I get that, but its drawn differently than when he usually blushes. Its specifically the freckles that dont appear in any other panel this page.

Oh. Okay. Yeah, I have no idea.

[Shogo]

As I've said before, part of the problem, for me, has been that it honestly just feels like Clinton is being pressured into it. Other characters have basically been prodding him with, "Are you sure you wouldn't want to take a ****?" Those other characters who keep showing up to go "Daww!", his sister, etc. etc.

It just feels like he's being badgered into it and he's too passive to do anything other than go down the path he's being pushed down.

[VoxRationis]

Purely aside from the general context, I have to interject how irate I would be were I to find that my childhood stuffed animals had been given over to abuse by an animal. No amount of dolichocephalic cuteness would be enough to assuage my sense of hurt and betrayal.

[Wraith]

I still have my oldest childhood stuffed toy. I was able to rescue him when my dog systematically took all others out into the garden, one by one, and carefully pulled their eyes out before burying the remains under the shed.

I'm not an overly sensitive or sentimental person, but it was nonetheless a great relief to save him from slobbery oblivion!

[Mordokai]

As I've said before, part of the problem, for me, has been that it honestly just feels like Clinton is being pressured into it. Other characters have basically been prodding him with, "Are you sure you wouldn't want to take a ****?" Those other characters who keep showing up to go "Daww!", his sister, etc. etc.

It just feels like he's being badgered into it and he's too passive to do anything other than go down the path he's being pushed down.

Honestly... yeah, I kinda find problem with that. It's like, "wouldn't it be nice if you two were a couple?" and the guy's too much of a pushover to say, "maybe, but I just don't like him like that".

I get it, you're confused. Sexuality and/or romance is nothing if not confusing, even after almost 40 years. But seriously, the portrayal of the situation from Jeph's side is nothing if not lackluster. As has been mentioned before, I'm just not feeling the chemistry. At this point, it's more like, the comic is missing the gay couple, who are the two guys we could stick together?

Clinton and Elliot? Eeeehhhh, yeah, let's go with those two.

[Rodin]

Honestly... yeah, I kinda find problem with that. It's like, "wouldn't it be nice if you two were a couple?" and the guy's too much of a pushover to say, "maybe, but I just don't like him like that".

I get it, you're confused. Sexuality and/or romance is nothing if not confusing, even after almost 40 years. But seriously, the portrayal of the situation from Jeph's side is nothing if not lackluster. As has been mentioned before, I'm just not feeling the chemistry. At this point, it's more like, the comic is missing the gay couple, who are the two guys we could stick together?

Clinton and Elliot? Eeeehhhh, yeah, let's go with those two.

It's especially noticeable because we've seen a gay couple in the webcomic. Maurice and Henry had effortless chemistry from their very first appearance and they made a very cute couple. Nothing about Marten's father being gay came off as forced inclusiveness and meeting his new beau felt very natural. The wedding was a great set of strips and I'd love for them to show up to visit again.

Clinton and Elliot are two of the least interesting characters who have been forced into a relationship to check a box. I'll be mightily glad when we move on to someone else.

[Traab]

It's especially noticeable because we've seen a gay couple in the webcomic. Maurice and Henry had effortless chemistry from their very first appearance and they made a very cute couple. Nothing about Marten's father being gay came off as forced inclusiveness and meeting his new beau felt very natural. The wedding was a great set of strips and I'd love for them to show up to visit again.

Clinton and Elliot are two of the least interesting characters who have been forced into a relationship to check a box. I'll be mightily glad when we move on to someone else.

Well he was established AS a gay character. Its basically the first thing we learn about his dad is that he came out as gay as the reason for the divorce and he and martens mom are still friends. Clinton on the other hand was not established as lgbtq. Im not sure if we ever saw a inclination of him being possibly bi till well after he first met elliot. And same for him really, elliot was always portrayed as straight in his interests. Padme, brun, then suddenly there was this bizarre triangle where clinton and elliot suddenly decided that maybe they were attracted to dudes too. Or at least each other.

[Taevyr]

Jeff has managed to write a "couple" with so little chemistry that this latest comic succeeded in making me physically cringe.

I'm actually impressed, if not in a good way. Still hoping they'll realize it isn't meant to be.

[Thufir]

Jeph has managed to write a "couple" with so little chemistry that this latest comic succeeded in making me physically cringe.

I mean, it made me cringe too, but that's because they're ridiculously awkward. It has nothing to do with a lack of chemistry in the couple, because they do have chemistry.

[Wildstag]

I keep seeing this argument floated in these forums, and I don't know if people are forgetting this comic exists or if they just think it's insufficient as evidence that, when he actually sets his preconceptions aside, Clinton is actually attracted to Elliot (and not just men in general, the mental exercise was regarding Elliot specifically).

I'm just sayin', Clinton's face in the last two panels of that comic do not look like expressions of societal obligation.

I'd quote Kanji Sasahara (Genshiken ch 47) here: "It's not like I suddenly realized that I'm gay or something... there are such hard-core images and... well, when I see that, naturally I'm gonna have some kind of reaction". Smut is very intentionally titillating. And when spoken aloud to someone who isn't really getting any, it's easy to be affected. It's like with futanari, most readers aren't attracted to the futa part, but rather the very vivid artwork of the sex.

Also, I think 99.9% of the audience prefers to pretend that VERY gross page doesn't exist. A girl improvising a gay porn involving her brother is probably one of the grossest takes Jeph has taken, and in general is just ridiculous; there are an exceptionally small number of siblings that would do that.

[georgie_leech]

I'd quote Kanji Sasahara (Genshiken ch 47) here: "It's not like I suddenly realized that I'm gay or something... there are such hard-core images and... well, when I see that, naturally I'm gonna have some kind of reaction". Smut is very intentionally titillating. And when spoken aloud to someone who isn't really getting any, it's easy to be affected. It's like with futanari, most readers aren't attracted to the futa part, but rather the very vivid artwork of the sex.

Also, I think 99.9% of the audience prefers to pretend that VERY gross page doesn't exist. A girl improvising a gay porn involving her brother is probably one of the grossest takes Jeph has taken, and in general is just ridiculous; there are an exceptionally small number of siblings that would do that.

TIL Describing an intimate moment counts as pornography.

[Keltest]

TIL Describing an intimate moment counts as pornography.

Calling it porn is maybe extreme, but i think the point stands. She was specifically fishing for a reaction, any reaction. That one was achieved means very little.

[Wildstag]

TIL Describing an intimate moment counts as pornography.

It's softcore at the very least, since it is describing a sexual moment. It being written (in webcomic form) makes it actually fit the definition. I guess you could argue it's not explicitly sexual, just like, foreplay, but RAI, it's definitely softcore.

[otakuryoga]

No actual Metaphores were harmed in the writing of this episode.

[Traab]

Ok so this is the moment of truth. What will the reaction be too the kiss? Please god help us not to let anyone like clintons mom interrupt before they can kiss and process how it makes them feel. This could be the start of a relationship at least half the posters here seem to think shouldnt exist for a variety of reasons, or it could be the next clinton/brun moment where at least one of them realizes they have no interest in a relationship.

[John Cribati]

Calling it porn is maybe extreme, but i think the point stands. She was specifically fishing for a reaction, any reaction. That one was achieved means very little.

For the record, there are three possible reactions to this scenario:

Disgust
Indifference
“That’s actually kind of hot.”

The fact that it was the third one probably meant something.

I mean, this may just be the asexuality talking, but I really don’t see the issue other people are having. Yeah, as far as the story goes, Elliott and Clinton have had no romantic no chemistry, but nothing about this situation is romantic. Elliott is attracted to Clinton. Clinton believes he is attracted to Elliott. They’re gonna smooch some, and Clinton is going to sort out his feelings.

Very standard, and I’m not sure what the problem is even supposed to be.

[Thufir]

Also, I think 99.9% of the audience prefers to pretend that VERY gross page doesn't exist. A girl improvising a gay porn involving her brother is probably one of the grossest takes Jeph has taken, and in general is just ridiculous; there are an exceptionally small number of siblings that would do that.

I think you vastly overestimate how many people share your weird puritanical views. There's nothing in that page I would describe as 'gross', or indeed as 'gay porn'.
'Ridiculous', I'll grant you.

[Vinyadan]

I'm for them becoming a couple. I haven't actually read these last pages, but this thing started four years ago, and it's time it gets somewhere.

[Kish]

I think sharing real-person-fic with one of the people it's about is pretty thoroughly creepy. But the only objection I have to Jeph's actions there, is that I don't think he realizes he wrote Claire doing something thoroughly creepy.

A lot like my reaction to all the "ha ha this female character casually threatens extreme violence isn't that endearing" strips.

[John Cribati]

I think sharing real-person-fic with one of the people it's about is pretty thoroughly creepy. But the only objection I have to Jeph's actions there, is that I don't think he realizes he wrote Claire doing something thoroughly creepy.

A lot like my reaction to all the "ha ha this female character casually threatens extreme violence isn't that endearing" strips.

I dunno, I found it a lot worse when Claire told people that Clinton lost his hand due to self-pleasuring too much, for the sake of embarrassing him in public.

Like, if she can talk about that with him nearby, in public, and not get immediately chewed out, I feel like sharing sexual fantasies is well within boundaries.

[Keltest]

I dunno, I found it a lot worse when Claire told people that Clinton lost his hand due to self-pleasuring too much, for the sake of embarrassing him in public.

Like, if she can talk about that with him nearby, in public, and not get immediately chewed out, I feel like sharing sexual fantasies is well within boundaries.

That was obviously a lie though, and she wasnt actively attempting to invoke sexual pleasure in her brother.