How would you handle a player creating an army of constructs for free?

[NigelWalmsley]

Dragons may not be interested in RULING. And they're rare.

Dragons live thousands of years. Using the figures in the Draconomicon, a White Dragon (shortest lifespan) born at the founding of the Roman Empire would still be alive today. Metallic Dragons could easily be old enough to have been adults in warring states China. With a lifespan like that, it only takes one dragon deciding that a country might be neat to have an empire that lasts longer than anything in human history.

As for rarity, that mostly relies on fiat. If you look at the figures in Draconomicon, you see that dragons live at least two millennia and become fertile after only a century. Even at exceptionally low rates of reproduction, dragons are going to reach carrying capacity unless you postulate either large numbers of extremely capable adventurers, or even more dangerous predators (neither of which is particularly consistent with "a bunch of 1st level mooks" as a primary national defense strategy).

-The more imbalanced a ratio between <the dragon's CR> and <the hoard wealth>, the more incentive there is for somebody to, ahem, redistribute the wealth. Not an army of low-level characters, but a band of foolhardy adventurers willing to take the risk

But that someone has to exist. At some point, you get to the top of the food chain. If you lose your holdings to a bigger, badder monster (or adventurer), that still doesn't put those holdings in the hands of people that can only muster a bunch of no-name chaff to defend themselves.

I'm not saying high-level characters don't exist - I'm saying that they're too few in number to make an army out of, and too powerful to be used efficiently, or in a way that fully aligns with the kingdom's goals.

Who needs numbers to make an army? Just as a Dragon can beat up essentially infinity 1st level Warriors, an 11th level Wizard can Planar Binding up a couple of demons that do the same thing.

As far as the kingdom's goals go, I still don't see how those goals are any different from "what high level characters will allow it to do". Even if those characters are nominally neutral, in practice the kingdom will be heavily constrained by which courses of action will result in a withdrawal of support while in another character's territory. Unless, of course, we postulate a reasonably flat level curve (at least locally).

*Even if so, it can be really hard to find out IC the level of something outside of specific spells. So at that point you're kinda just ordering mandatory service and hoping these are level 20 fighters among your ranks, not level 3 commoners.

Sure you can. Make anyone who joins take a Sleep spell to the face. If they fall asleep, they're too low level to join. You can repeat a couple of times, or use tricks with low-HD animals and positioning, to avoid false negatives. Alternatively, if you happen to be evil, you can instead hit people with N-1 negative levels, ensuring that only level N troops join your army, and supplying you with some Wights to use as shock troops.

-Character advancement only really applies to PCs, unless the DM is a masochist and really wants to track the EXP of every single level 1 commoner every time he has a dangerous encounter with a feral cat. In theory you can have NPCs practice math problems/gladiator fights/feral cats until they level up enough, but I think that's largely TO territory.

We can approximate what results it would produce, and those results are inconsistent with the random settlement rules. Certainly, you can decide that you prefer the latter, but the point is that there's not actually a single RAW answer.

-Leadership doesn't grant any 6th level followers until an effective score of 21. Most NPCs will never reach that level of awesome, and those that do (such as the obligatory level 20 commoner in society) only gains one until a leadership score of 25. (Note: Conscripting your followers and sending them to war may count you as a cruel leader that causes the death of followers, who moves around a lot, but that's a straw-man).

Leadership grants a 6th level cohort much more quickly, and can be chained.

-Mentor... doesn't do anything? You gain one NPC apprentice, whose level and class is ambiguous.

Mentor allows you to train people up to 5th level without them needing to go on adventures.

[Segev]

According to MMV, a DC 25 Knowledge (dungeoneering) check will tell you that madcrafters of Thoon are sluglike aberrations that can vomit out constructs. A similar DC tells you about scythers and stormclouds. It's a pretty reasonable hurdle to put in front of the player, but it's certainly not an insurmountable one.

Sure. If they exist at all.

The OP said he's not running Thoon in his game. That's plenty of reason to simply say it and its associated monsters don't exist. I'm not saying he has to make that choice, but I'm pointing out that "Thoon isn't a thing in this game" is perfectly valid to say.

[Goaty14]

But that someone has to exist. At some point, you get to the top of the food chain. If you lose your holdings to a bigger, badder monster (or adventurer), that still doesn't put those holdings in the hands of people that can only muster a bunch of no-name chaff to defend themselves.

Spoiler: Off-Topic

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Off topic, but it just sprung on me what would happen if the current rulers were actually given the position by the deities themselves? Think of it as how medieval monarchies were thought to be given the position by gods/godesses, but with real deities backing them up. As in, the moment an insurrection starts gaining traction, a seemingly never-ending amount of archons begin to teleport in and restore the order in the kingdom. In other words, the current rulers are the top of the power chain, short of epic-level threats, they just wield their power indirectly.

Who needs numbers to make an army? Just as a Dragon can beat up essentially infinity 1st level Warriors, an 11th level Wizard can Planar Binding up a couple of demons that do the same thing.

Ignoring the very obvious consequences to resorting to demonic infantry, and assuming this wizard in question is optimized to which they can reliably PB such things, sure.

Sure you can. Make anyone who joins take a Sleep spell to the face.

I don't agree with that, but more on the level of "I don't think spell descriptions are meant to be that specific in-character."

We can approximate what results it would produce, and those results are inconsistent with the random settlement rules. Certainly, you can decide that you prefer the latter, but the point is that there's not actually a single RAW answer.

There isn't, because presumably it's not supposed to happen (RAI). If it was, there'd be rules for it, but since there aren't, 'tis something to be arbitrarily ruled by the DM.

Leadership grants a 6th level cohort much more quickly, and can be chained.

I don't mean to be a party-pooper, but I don't at all view that as a reasonable idea that would fly at most tables. We can agree to disagree on that.
Even with a cohort though (who, I'll say again, is of an NPC class), you double your numbers. That's ~250 of an army, which the PC in question can produce in ~83 days.

I think that the bigger difference of what we're comparing is that I'm thinking of generic D&D armies/kingdoms, whereas you're thinking of optimized D&D armies/kingdoms, which makes for a difference of perspective. (sized-up because I think it's important)

Mentor allows you to train people up to 5th level without them needing to go on adventures.

But only whenever the mentor themselves gains a level (DMG II, pg 179), which redirects back to if NPCs can gain experience.

[unseenmage]

Rod of Construct Control from Arms and Equipment Guide in the hands of a sneaky, clever enemy agent ought to spice things up.

Domain Draught for the Warforged Domain to be able to turn/rebuke/command Constructs is also an amusement.

Have a Construct related church start taxing the player's forces in exchange for their being allowed to do Construct stuff. Imagine oily, church attired thugs wielding wrenches threatening to break kneecaps.

Perhaps Construct corpses revert to useful materials when slain, or maybe a powerful merchant is convincing folk that's the case. That could be another reason some Constructs on away missions red shirt every so often.

Mindless stuff fails pretty hard to illusions. Maybe an enemy illusionist starts tricking these things into attacking innocent villagers and guards?
('I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took a Construct to the knee.' lol)

Think of it as a risk management situation. All manner of disaster could befall an Intelligent minion in a D&D world. How exactly are mindless minions avoiding all the perils of the random encounter charts that smart minions so commonly succumb to?


All in all, it isnt very many minions in the grand scheme. Basic WBL would rent more, stronger minions especially at higher levels (1gp/day per class level as per AaEG iirc).

As a minionmancers myself I say let them have their fun. Just be glad it's not custom magic resetting traps of Create Crawling Claw, Minor Servitor, or Awaken Sand. :)

[icefractal]

I think a big question is how much you want to limit the power in-setting vs limiting spotlight time. Because techniques to do the former usually add to the latter.

For instance, enforcing communication limits and having problems with standing orders arise frequently takes a lot more time at the table than "Ok, you have three dozen scythers guarding the town now." Ditto with enemies proactively trying to whittle down the numbers, diplomatic incidents, etc.

As far as balance of narrative impact (assuming the other players care), have you considered giving them the same potential capability, just by use of their skills and reputation? In theory, someone with great personal power, wealth, and skills that few can match should be able to achieve significant political influence and/or even start their own kingdom. It's not the typical way D&D games go, but it can be fun.