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  1. - Top - End - #1231
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Honestly, I just wish Bethesda had made the townsfolk cowardly. What do these people think the guards are for, even?
    Human shields, obviously. You never hear about shopkeepers taking arrows. To knees or otherwise.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  2. - Top - End - #1232
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Honestly, I just wish Bethesda had made the townsfolk cowardly. What do these people think the guards are for, even?
    To be fair, Nord culture is virtually identical to Dwarf culture in OotS. Die in glorious combat for a free ticket to paradise.

  3. - Top - End - #1233
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    You can easily explain the Nord character's behavior: they wish to go to Sovngarde and fighting a dragon or a vampire would be a decent way to go about it. That means there's a lot of death seeking behavior which is culturally accepted of course.

    Non-Nords don't have that excuse.

    Of the top of my head, there are some townies that run after they take a certain amount of damage (Nazeem), but they usually die before they escape...
    Don't know your name but bring the pain.

  4. - Top - End - #1234
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    I think generally the dumbest outcome is when the guards all pull out their bows, the civilians go into melee with the vampires or whatever... and survive, then turn around and attack the guards who shot them full of arrows, who promptly finish the job and massacre the citizens theyre "protecting".
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  5. - Top - End - #1235
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Honestly, I just wish Bethesda had made the townsfolk cowardly. What do these people think the guards are for, even?
    Consider the implication that most, if not all of the guards are either on the take for the Thieves Guild or are worshipers of Sithis if you do the relevant questlines.

    The guards might not be worth much when it comes to protecting the average person.

    And depending on the order you do quests in, they can get corrupt really fricking fast.

    The one time I sided with the Stormcloaks in the Civil War I ended up doing the foresworn conspiracy storyline right after winning the Civil War so instead of corrupt Markarth Guards the Guards were all Storm Cloak soldiers.

    "Bitch, I outrank every last one of you, you're literally only in a position to do this because I more or less singlehandedly won the battle to take this hold, and you've been here for less than a week."
    "The money is good, so screw you!"
    "Stopping this crap is the whole reason we took this specific hold!"

    And of course, if you resist arrest and escape there's no option to go tell Ulfric that an entire Hold's worth of his soldiers are now on the take.
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  6. - Top - End - #1236
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    With the exception of Whiterun and the faction capital cities, town guards dont actually get involved in the battles for the holds at all. Its possible its the same guards, just in Stormcloak colors now. Allowing a certain amount of military autonomy to conquered territories is one strategy to help prevent that territory from immediately rebelling when your military forces start moving on to the next target, since youre allowing them greater autonomy and interfering. Ulfric in particular probably cant afford to actually leave a bunch of soldiers behind in the settlement if he is also arresting the guards or whatever.

    This is doubly plausible because if Ulfric takes the city, he straight up puts Thongvor Silver-Blood on the throne, so the guards arent being bribed to work for him so much as, you know, being explicitly told to do so. Personal loyalty to the Silver-Bloods seems like a feature rather than a bug here.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  7. - Top - End - #1237
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    I lost half the shopkeepers in Whiterun the same way. Downloaded a mod to fix it (‘When Vampires Attack’ IIRC) and never looked back.
    Of course, because her shop is right next to the gate and she's always outside, Adrianne Avennicci is usually the first to go. You can still shop via her husband, of course, because he's more sensible and stays indoors!

  8. - Top - End - #1238
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    With the exception of Whiterun and the faction capital cities, town guards dont actually get involved in the battles for the holds at all. Its possible its the same guards, just in Stormcloak colors now. Allowing a certain amount of military autonomy to conquered territories is one strategy to help prevent that territory from immediately rebelling when your military forces start moving on to the next target, since youre allowing them greater autonomy and interfering. Ulfric in particular probably cant afford to actually leave a bunch of soldiers behind in the settlement if he is also arresting the guards or whatever.

    This is doubly plausible because if Ulfric takes the city, he straight up puts Thongvor Silver-Blood on the throne, so the guards arent being bribed to work for him so much as, you know, being explicitly told to do so. Personal loyalty to the Silver-Bloods seems like a feature rather than a bug here.
    Indeed, it would be incredibly inefficient to arrest the city guard of a conquered hold. You would then be forced to leave your own soldiers as guards, weakening your army, or to hire new guards out of pocket, wasting time and money, especially if you vet each potential hire for their loyalty.

  9. - Top - End - #1239
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Of course, because her shop is right next to the gate and she's always outside, Adrianne Avennicci is usually the first to go. You can still shop via her husband, of course, because he's more sensible and stays indoors!
    Ironically, her husband wears armor inside the shop while Adrianne is wearing blacksmithing clothes outside.
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  10. - Top - End - #1240
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkmoar View Post
    Ironically, her husband wears armor inside the shop while Adrianne is wearing blacksmithing clothes outside.
    It's good publicity. Visitors get to see the pretty woman working up a sweat outside, then they come in the shop to buy stuff and the guy is wearing the armor she produced to show its quality (and presumably comfort if he can wear it all day long).
    Last edited by Resileaf; 2021-06-10 at 05:10 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #1241
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkmoar View Post
    Ironically, her husband wears armor inside the shop while Adrianne is wearing blacksmithing clothes outside.
    So dedicated to her craft that she'll be out, grinding a new dagger at 2AM, calmly sat next to the half-naked corpses of the cultists who attacked me upon arrival in Whiterun.

    Adrienne has seen me meet a lot of different people, in a lot of different circumstances. Maybe she fights because she feels she has a personal stake in my social calendar at this point

  12. - Top - End - #1242
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Of course, because her shop is right next to the gate and she's always outside, Adrianne Avennicci is usually the first to go. You can still shop via her husband, of course, because he's more sensible and stays indoors!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    So dedicated to her craft that she'll be out, grinding a new dagger at 2AM, calmly sat next to the half-naked corpses of the cultists who attacked me upon arrival in Whiterun.

    Adrienne has seen me meet a lot of different people, in a lot of different circumstances. Maybe she fights because she feels she has a personal stake in my social calendar at this point
    Yeah, are we sure he’s the Nord in that family? Because her Imperial self really seems to have the Nord craziness down better.

  13. - Top - End - #1243
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    With the exception of Whiterun and the faction capital cities, town guards dont actually get involved in the battles for the holds at all. Its possible its the same guards, just in Stormcloak colors now. Allowing a certain amount of military autonomy to conquered territories is one strategy to help prevent that territory from immediately rebelling when your military forces start moving on to the next target, since youre allowing them greater autonomy and interfering. Ulfric in particular probably cant afford to actually leave a bunch of soldiers behind in the settlement if he is also arresting the guards or whatever.

    This is doubly plausible because if Ulfric takes the city, he straight up puts Thongvor Silver-Blood on the throne, so the guards arent being bribed to work for him so much as, you know, being explicitly told to do so. Personal loyalty to the Silver-Bloods seems like a feature rather than a bug here.
    If that was the case then why replace the uniform?
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  14. - Top - End - #1244
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    The one time I sided with the Stormcloaks in the Civil War I ended up doing the foresworn conspiracy storyline right after winning the Civil War so instead of corrupt Markarth Guards the Guards were all Storm Cloak soldiers.

    "Bitch, I outrank every last one of you, you're literally only in a position to do this because I more or less singlehandedly won the battle to take this hold, and you've been here for less than a week."
    "The money is good, so screw you!"
    "Stopping this crap is the whole reason we took this specific hold!"

    And of course, if you resist arrest and escape there's no option to go tell Ulfric that an entire Hold's worth of his soldiers are now on the take.
    Well-intended as "stopping this crap" might have been on your part, Ulfric literally installs the head of the family running the entire conspiracy as Jarl of Markarth after taking it for the stormcloaks. Those guards are no longer on the take, they're literally just doing what their Jarl ordered them to do. You essentially legitimized "the crap" by ousting the former Jarl.

    As for changing the uniform: it's always been effective to show the people they're being protected and cared for by their new overlord, after a takeover. Essentially, it's probably propaganda to clearly show Stormcloak dedication to protecting the holds they take, while said Stormcloaks only have to put in minimal effort beyond providing new gear.
    Last edited by Taevyr; 2021-06-10 at 12:12 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #1245
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    If that was the case then why replace the uniform?
    To make a point.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  16. - Top - End - #1246
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Yeah, are we sure he’s the Nord in that family? Because her Imperial self really seems to have the Nord craziness down better.
    My personal headcanon is now that marrying a Nord requires forsaking your old life and going all in on the culture and mindset. There's a literary parallel but I can't for the life of me remember it.

    Medea, maybe??
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2021-06-10 at 04:20 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #1247
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    It was the first sign for me that Bethesda were more interested in shoving content in your face than actually writing a properly integrated plot. I like Tribunal, but the start sequence with the assassin is indefensible.
    To be fair, Helseth could plausibly have discovered that the Emperor was looking for and eventually dispatched an agent who fulfilled at least some of the conditions of the Nerevarine Prophecies and decided to try to eliminate this agent before he or she could create any problems. Helseth most likely has informants and spies of his own at the Imperial Court, just as the Blades have operatives in the provinces, and a search for a potential agent born to uncertain parents under a certain sign probably couldn't be done without anyone hearing something about it.

  18. - Top - End - #1248
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Honestly, I just wish Bethesda had made the townsfolk cowardly. What do these people think the guards are for, even?
    I got a mod that did exactly that. Everyone is Skyrim is a gorram berserker.
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  19. - Top - End - #1249
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Yep, there's a reason Immersive Citizens is in the top 15 most popular mods out there.

  20. - Top - End - #1250
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkmoar View Post
    From what I've read, those attacks were disabled in the Switch version.
    They were disabled in Special Edition on PC as well. So I suspect that's probably the case in all later platforms.

    I have a mod that re-enables them. Seriously, what is wrong with them? I know how frustrating it is to lose a merchant, but that just gives you a stake in the fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    This is doubly plausible because if Ulfric takes the city, he straight up puts Thongvor Silver-Blood on the throne, so the guards arent being bribed to work for him so much as, you know, being explicitly told to do so.
    Thongvor is a nasty piece of work, but he's not overtly corrupt. It's his brother Thonar who runs the Forsworn racket and needs killing.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  21. - Top - End - #1251
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Honest question, can you tell which NPCs are Nords, Imperials or Bretons without using their names? I sometime get the impression the difference is supposed to be as obvious as between Dunmer, Altmer and Bosmer, but they all just look like white dudes to me.

    I would like it if they gave the Imperials some East-Asian features and the Bretons some Elvish ones to denote their Tsaesci/Direnni heritage respectively in the future games.
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  22. - Top - End - #1252
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I have a mod that re-enables them. Seriously, what is wrong with them? I know how frustrating it is to lose a merchant, but that just gives you a stake in the fight.
    ‘Having a stake in the fight’ is, first off, a terrible vampire pun.

    But more relevantly the encounter doesn’t just trigger when you enter the city; I had one triggered by leaving Dragonsreach at night. Having to go across the entire city to get to the fight means there is very little you can do to save anyone before half the town is dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Honest question, can you tell which NPCs are Nords, Imperials or Bretons without using their names? I sometime get the impression the difference is supposed to be as obvious as between Dunmer, Altmer and Bosmer, but they all just look like white dudes to me.
    TBH not really, but Skyrim was the first Elder Scrolls game I really sank into, so I barely knew what the various races were. Still, ESO does a better job differentiating them.

  23. - Top - End - #1253
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Honest question, can you tell which NPCs are Nords, Imperials or Bretons without using their names? I sometime get the impression the difference is supposed to be as obvious as between Dunmer, Altmer and Bosmer, but they all just look like white dudes to me.
    I can usually recognize the race of an NPC in Morrowind from their appearance, but I have much more trouble doing so in Oblivion and Skyrim.

  24. - Top - End - #1254
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    I can usually tell a Breton apart, usually. But not always. It's a crap shoot with the others.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  25. - Top - End - #1255
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    I can usually recognize the race of an NPC in Morrowind from their appearance, but I have much more trouble doing so in Oblivion and Skyrim.
    Well, characters in Morrowind usually had about 8 polygons forming their entire head, so they had to rely on textures to differentiate them. Oblivion and Skyrim seem to have the same character face and body sliders regardless of race (excepting Argonians and Khajiit, obviously), so it's down to the designer picking the right skin tone and features to differentiate them, a much tougher job.

  26. - Top - End - #1256
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Bretons tend to be darker complexioned. Imperial have sharper features. And Nords are more broad and usually taller.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Elder Scrolls 6 should follow the Skyrim model of spell casing, but have touch, continuous beam, charge blast, ranged AOE, and centered on self AOE destruction spells for all three elements at every level of proficiency instead of each level being a different set of effects until Master when you get one of each for one element each.

    And the master-level spells shouldn't be automatically duel-cast.

    Being able to Kamehameha a dragon out of the sky is cool, but sometimes you want to pretend that you're Emporer Palpatine and it feels wrong that your continuous stream of lightning from one hand is your weakest shock spell.

    (a setting to toggle off duel cast animations would be appreciated for the same reason.)
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  28. - Top - End - #1258
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    I can usually recognize the race of an NPC in Morrowind from their appearance, but I have much more trouble doing so in Oblivion and Skyrim.
    It was much, much easier in Morrowind. Nords were big and blond, Imperials were angular and wrinkled, Bretons were the only ones who looked almost like human.

    Everyone (human) in Oblivion has exactly the same shaped faces, which makes it significantly harder. It also gives the Redguards much lighter complexions, meaning it's quite possible to confuse them, too.

    Skyrim gives better differentiation than that, at least. Nords are slightly taller, though not enough to be clearly visible. Imperials seem to have slightly more angular features. It's pretty hard to see the difference, particularly now I know practically every NPC by name anyway.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  29. - Top - End - #1259
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    Everyone (human) in Oblivion has exactly the same shaped faces, which makes it significantly harder. It also gives the Redguards much lighter complexions, meaning it's quite possible to confuse them, too.
    I considered it a victory when I was able to make my Altmer in Oblivion look human. It was a significant step up from looking like a potato. *shudder*

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    And the master-level spells shouldn't be automatically duel-cast.
    I was sad that master level spells didn't benefit from the Dual Cast perk. At least they have a nice animation, and you can use the Become Etheral Shout to draw in everyone close before you unleash a Fire Storm.
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