The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

[Fyraltari]

Is it actually technically illegal to perform the Black Sacrament, though?

At the very least it would count as desecrating a grave. The Third Empire considers it illegal to raise somebody as a zombi unless you have their written accord because the corpse is the property of the deceased so performing the Black Sacrament would probably be illegal on this count too.

Also, it's possible worship of Sithis and of the Night Mother is illegal in the Empire.

In any case, in Oblivion:

The Imperial City -- pinnacle of art, entertainment, scholarship... and ritualistic murder? So says Adamus Phillida, commander of the Imperial Legion forces in the Imperial City, and a staunch opponent of the mysterious assassin's guild known as the Dark Brotherhood. According to Phillida, Imperial Legion soldiers have discovered thirteen separate instances of the macabre "Black Sacrament," a sinister rite purportedly used to summon a member of the Dark Brotherhood, in order to arrange an assassination.
Whether or not a card-carrying killer shows up on a ritual performer's doorstep remains to be seen, but the Black Sacrament itself is very real, and truly the stuff of nightmares. As documented in the rare and taboo work "A Kiss, Sweet Mother," the Black Sacrament involves an effigy of the intended victim -- created from actual body parts, including a heart, skull, bones and flesh -- within a circle of candles. To proceed with the ritual, one must stab the effigy repeatedly with a dagger rubbed with the petals of a Nightshade plant, while whispering the plea, "Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear." As gruesome as this ritual may be, even more frightening is its intention -- the summoning of a mysterious assassin (who some witnesseses claim is always clad in a black hooded robe) who will then receive money to kill an innocent victim. No remorse. No regret. It is, as the merchant's say, simply business. And that's what worries Adamus Phillida.
"This brazen increase in Night Mother rituals is an affront to the decent, peace-loving citizens of the Empire. The Imperial Legion exists for one reason and one reason only -- to protect and serve the people of Tamriel. How in Azura's name can we do that when people take it upon themselves to contact paid assassins and have innocent people murdered? How can I sleep at night knowing my Legion can't possibly save the life of someone marked for death by the Dark Brotherhood? Anyone who carries out this "Black Sacrament" makes a mockery of the Imperial Legion, and as Commander, that's something I just can't tolerate. From this point forward, any citizen found in the possession of items related to the Night Mother ritual will be incarcerated in the Imperial Prison indefinitely, and their property seized by the Empire. There's no fine high enough, no standard prison sentence long enough, for the type of malcontent who would show such a blatant disregard for our dear Emperor's laws and the wellfare of the fine people of Tamriel"
To be sure, Adamus Phillida is not one to issue empty threats. Indeed, the Black Horse Courier has learned that one Claudius Arcadia, until recently a resident of the Talos Plaza District of the Imperial City, is now residing in a cold, dank cell in the Imperial Prison, and his house has become the newest Imperial Legion outpost. So before you take the law into your own hands, dear reader, remember -- you'll go further in life with a warm smile than a cold blade. And if you've got a grudge that won't be soothed, a score that can't be settled, you can always move to Morrowind and have the government-sanctioned Morag Tong do the killing for you.

So it seems like a recent development. My guess would be that it was always illegal to practice the Black Sacrament, because of what it involves but the Guard wasn't nevessarily always focusing on tracking down those who perform it.

Sure, it can possibly lead to someone's death, but so can writing a note saying "KILL THIS PERSON FOR ME, 10000GP REWARD" and writing isn't illegal either.

In real life you'd go to jail for that. At least if you'd put it in a place where someone could find it.

[Keltest]

Yeah, i figure attempting to contract somebody to commit a murder would be a crime regardless of the specific means used to get into contact.

[Rater202]

So yeah, it seems like Sithis Worship was literally just outlawed towards the beginning of the game.

The "You will be imprisoned indefinitely and we will seize your property thing" also raises questions. They state that there's no fine high enough and no sentence long enough... So why don't they just execute them? And the crime is possession of items that would be used in the Black Sacrament, not performing it.

That means that you can be arrested and imprisoned indefinitely for having nightshade or a dagger on your person. Or candles.

Seems very much like the Brotherhood are being uses as a scapegoat for a means of social control in Cyrodiil at the end of the third era.

Particularly since the Empire continues to sanction the Morag tong who, from what I can tell, are not that much better than the Brotherhood. The distinction seems to be religious-based. Morally, sanctioning one and condemning the other is a bit... Eh.

[Fyraltari]

The "You will be imprisoned indefinitely and we will seize your property thing" also raises questions. They state that there's no fine high enough and no sentence long enough... So why don't they just execute them?

Yeah, that's odd.

And the crime is possession of items that would be used in the Black Sacrament, not performing it.

That means that you can be arrested and imprisoned indefinitely for having nightshade or a dagger on your person. Or candles.

I don't think that should be read as "any item used in the sacrament" but more "enough item to point out tou intend to perform the sacrament" such as the book or human remains in addition to nightshade.

Particularly since the Empire continues to sanction the Morag tong who, from what I can tell, are not that much better than the Brotherhood. The distinction seems to be religious-based. Morally, sanctioning one and condemning the other is a bit... Eh.

That's because the Morag Tong's continued operation is a clause in the Armistice treaty that saw Morrowind join the Empire. The Empire doesn't like the Morag Tong one bit but it's not worth a Dunmeri war of Independence.

[Rater202]

That's because the Morag Tong's continued operation is a clause in the Armistice treaty that saw Morrowind join the Empire. The Empire doesn't like the Morag Tong one bit but it's not worth a Dunmeri war of Independence.

Yeah, I'm just saying that sanctioning one cult of assassins and serial killers but condemning the other is... Eh.

Not disbanding them is one thing, but actively encouraging people who feel that they need someone killed to seek them out is something else entirely.

Rereading the article, this doesn't even seem to be the law. This seems to be the unilateral action of a High Rankling MEmber of the Legion and he's just being allowed to do it, presumably because the Empire has bigger things to deal with what with the Emporer and all of his known heirs being dead.

And the wording, to me, really does seem as if this is a "random search and arrest anyone who might be performing the rituals" thing.

[Keltest]

Yeah, I'm just saying that sanctioning one cult of assassins and serial killers but condemning the other is... Eh.

Not disbanding them is one thing, but actively encouraging people who feel that they need someone killed to seek them out is something else entirely.

Rereading the article, this doesn't even seem to be the law. This seems to be the unilateral action of a High Rankling MEmber of the Legion and he's just being allowed to do it, presumably because the Empire has bigger things to deal with what with the Emporer and all of his known heirs being dead.

And the wording, to me, really does seem as if this is a "random search and arrest anyone who might be performing the rituals" thing.

Lets be realistic here. Nightshade is trivial to get, since potatoes and tomatoes are everywhere. Daggers, ditto. The only reason anybody would even have reason to suspect youre doing something shady is if you have the book (which is pretty hard proof) or an entire human skeleton with some internal organs (which is criminal even without the intent to contract a murderer) around in your house.

And the article quoted is from the Black Horse Courier, not the official Imperial stance, so i would be pretty leery of reading any sort of official endorsement of the Morag Tong's services into it.

[Aeson]

Speaking of the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion, what was your favorite way to join? I was always partial to doing the Imperial Arena questline but also doing The Grey Prince's quest about hs origins. Complete his sidequest where he realizes that hes' half-vampire instead of being the son of an honorable noble and he'll ask you to kill him and just stand there and take it when you challenge him for the Grand Champion title. It counts as a murder, but no bounty for it.

I usually stealth-kill one or both of the Camonna Tong thugs near Cheydinhal if I want to get into the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion; they're not relevant to anything (and even if they were, they respawn), they're easy marks, and you won't get a bounty for killing them.

[Rater202]

Lets be realistic here. Nightshade is trivial to get, since potatoes and tomatoes are everywhere. Daggers, ditto

Yes. Tha'ts why it's concerning for me that the Imperial agent who is apparently in charge of this crackdown was directly quoted as saying "any citizen found in the possession of items related to the Night Mother ritual will be incarcerated in the Imperial Prison indefinitely, and their property seized by the Empire."

that does include Nightshade, aggers, and candles.

It's possible that he's exaggerating as a scare tactic, but if he's speaking literally this means that anyone who has any of those common items can be imprisoned indefinitely on suspicion of planning to contact the Brotherhood.

Which, coupled with the fact that these people are being imprisoned instead of executed despite the fact that hiring this one specific band of assassins is something for which "There's no fine high enough, no standard prison sentence long enough, for the type of malcontent who would show such a blatant disregard for our dear Emperor's laws and the wellfare of the fine people of Tamriel" as a direct quote from that same person makes me suspicious of the true motive behind this. That's a rather emotionally manipulative way to say "this is the worst crime imaginable."

This very much, to me, seems like a subtle hint at corruption. Taking as presented, this law gives the Imperial Legion the right to arrest almost anyone and seize their property as 'needed.'

I could be wrong, but this to my perspective is not a good look. If they actually wanted to crack down on the Brotherhood, there's other ways to go about it that aren't potentially able to be easily abused by the corrupt.

[Aeson]

Nightshade is trivial to get, since potatoes and tomatoes are everywhere.

"Nightshade" might specifically refer to the alchemy ingredient "nightshade," which appears to be the flower of the "Nightshade plant" found in Oblivion, rather than to components of any member of the real-world nightshade family. That said, as there's a number of nightshade plants in the region loosely bounded by Kvatch, Skingrad, and Bravil as well as a lower concentration of nightshade plants around Cheydinhal it probably still isn't too hard to find, and it can also show up in alchemy vendors' stocks.

[Keltest]

"Nightshade" might specifically refer to the alchemy ingredient "nightshade," which appears to be the flower of the "Nightshade plant" found in Oblivion, rather than to components of any member of the real-world nightshade family. That said, as there's a number of nightshade plants in the region loosely bounded by Kvatch, Skingrad, and Bravil as well as a lower concentration of nightshade plants around Chorrol it probably still isn't too hard to find, and it can also show up in alchemy vendors' stocks.

From my understanding, the flowers of potato and tomato plants are indeed rather toxic, but as you say the flower is incredibly common even if it is a separate plant entirely.

@Rater The Dark Brotherhood, at least, considers Philida's hatred of them to be genuine, and considers him an actual obstacle. That seems to suggest that he is serious in his efforts to shut them down, if nothing else.

[Rater202]

@Rater The Dark Brotherhood, at least, considers Philida's hatred of them to be genuine, and considers him an actual obstacle. That seems to suggest that he is serious in his efforts to shut them down, if nothing else.

Alright, but at the same time that doesn't make what he's doing okay. At best he's drastically overarching in a way that can be easily abused. At worst he thinks that it doesn't matter how many innocents he falsely arrests as long as he can take out the Brotherhood.

[Keltest]

Alright, but at the same time that doesn't make what he's doing okay. At best he's drastically overarching in a way that can be easily abused. At worst he thinks that it doesn't matter how many innocents he falsely arrests as long as he can take out the Brotherhood.

Or we could assume that he isnt an idiot who goes around arresting people for having ordinary candles in their house like 90% of the world does, and that he actually looks for signs like the presence of the book or attempts to obtain human skeletons for use in the ritual. There arent any signs of that actually happening, and the only people we see arrested for it are actually guilty of trying to have somebody murdered, so...

Also, can we take a moment to laugh at the Black Horse Courier, who provides an explicit description of how to carry out the Black Sacrament in their very public paper? Maybe that has something to do with the rise in assassination attempts?

[Taevyr]

Speaking of the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion, what was your favorite way to join? I was always partial to doing the Imperial Arena questline but also doing The Grey Prince's quest about hs origins. Complete his sidequest where he realizes that hes' half-vampire instead of being the son of an honorable noble and he'll ask you to kill him and just stand there and take it when you challenge him for the Grand Champion title. It counts as a murder, but no bounty for it.

Way back when, I "accidentally" murdered someone during the quest involving the grave-robbers supplying a salesman in the Imperial City. If I remember correctly, I tracked them to a tomb, found them grave-robbing, and killed them from stealth. The game counted it as murder, which is more-or-less correct.

That playthrough ended up with me becoming a vampire by way of the Brotherhood, and I eventually ended up reviving the character for a Skyrim playthrough with the help of an alternate start mod.

[Ortho]

Speaking of the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion, what was your favorite way to join?

My personal favorite is to kill someone and then start Through a Nightmare, Darkly. Lucien Lachance will somehow appear to you in the dream world and offer you the invitation there.

[halfeye]

Speaking of the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion, what was your favorite way to join?

My usual way of not joining was offing Lachance. My usual way of getting him to visit was doing the mage's guild quest line, there's one sub-quest where:

Spoiler

Show

all the mages in a dungeon turn into necromancers on the way out, and killing one of them is murder while the rest aren't.

He shows up after that.

[Lord Raziere]

I mean to me technically, a black sacrament ritual is no proof that you killed someone, but it IS proof that someone attempted to kill somebody.

which means its at least premeditated attempted murder. you can't prove against whom, but you don't have to if its proven that Black Sacrament has a magical thing that links to Sithis/the Night Mother and causes a Dark brotherhood assassin to kill someone. which it does, and everyone somehow knows it does.

now a black sacrament ritual could be the work of someone trying to frame you, but this takes an intelligent criminal. problem with that is, most criminals are dumb if they were intelligent enough to carry out crimes competently, they are probably smart enough to avoid crime in the first place. if you do a black sacrament in your house and someone finds it, occam's razor says its you. Elder Scrolls doesn't have any forensics magic to confirm as far as I know, so you can't really confirm otherwise (IE that someone sneaked into your house and did the black sacrament there to frame you while killing someone else) but then again, why not just clean up the mess up after you did it? nothing says the black sacrament once performed has to remain out and evident for everyone to see.

on the other hand, this is Elder Scrolls universe. you can just walk off into the wilderness for a day, say your out hunting or something, do the black sacrament, tell the Dark Brotherhood through it to meet you in a secluded location in the wilderness for their meeting and the only thing people can accuse you of are being strangely absent on certain days unless someone actively follows you to see what your doing out there. but again, criminals are dumb and no one but the guy who tells you assassinate Emperor Mede ever thinks to do this, which fits.

I think making the black sacrament illegal makes sense, as long as its found in the configuration meant for the black sacrament, because otherwise there is no way to catch the real killer- the Dark Brotherhood is just an accomplice in the crime to kill somebody. as long as evidence of murderous intent would is shown, it makes sense. the items themselves are fine, its the part where they are clearly used in a way that everyone leads to someone getting murdered that would be the proof of attempted murder to me.

[halfeye]

but again, criminals are dumb

Eh, NPCs are way dumber, they are strictly on rails with nowhere else to go, most of the time they don't even have any joints in their tracks. "Criminal" NPCs are granted usually the dumbest of the dumb.

[Aeson]

I mean to me technically, a black sacrament ritual is no proof that you killed someone, but it IS proof that someone attempted to kill somebody.

which means its at least premeditated attempted murder. you can't prove against whom, but you don't have to if its proven that Black Sacrament has a magical thing that links to Sithis/the Night Mother and causes a Dark brotherhood assassin to kill someone. which it does, and everyone somehow knows it does.

Proving that someone performed the Black Sacrament would probably be sufficient to convict them of conspiracy to commit murder - it's evidence that they attempted to hire an assassin, after all - but unless you can show that an attempt on someone's life was made as a result of it you probably wouldn't be able to make a charge of murder or attempted murder stick, at least not in something like a modern Western legal system. If you wanted to press (attempted) murder charges, you'd probably need at minimum a suspicious death or unresolved assault which took place after the Black Sacrament is believed to have been performed as well as a motive for the defendant to hire assassins to go after whoever got attacked; otherwise, there probably isn't sufficient evidence to prosecute, let alone convict, the defendant on (attempted) murder charges.

Also, with regards to your claim that the Black Sacrament by itself constitutes evidence of (attempted) murder:
- Rufio's apparently been hiding at the Inn of Ill Omen for "a couple of weeks," and Rufio doesn't seem like the type who'd survive an even vaguely-competent assassination attempt. Most likely, he went to ground when he heard that Claudius Arcadia was out for his blood and the player character's initiation into the Dark Brotherhood is the first attempt on his life resulting from Arcadia's contract with the Dark Brotherhood. If that's the case, then Claudius Arcadia isn't guilty of either murder or attempted murder until the player character attacks Rufio.
- If someone performs a Black Sacrament hoping to secure a contract against a Dark Brotherhood assassin in good standing, what happens? This seems like the sort of Black Sacrament which might not produce a murder attempt for a long time, especially if the Dark Brotherhood assassin targeted is someone important within the Brotherhood. (Yes, yes, Astrid performed the Black Sacrament to have a member of the Dark Brotherhood killed, but that member was herself, she had betrayed the Brotherhood, and she was dying anyways.)

[Lord Raziere]

Proving that someone performed the Black Sacrament would probably be sufficient to convict them of conspiracy to commit murder - it's evidence that they attempted to hire an assassin, after all - but unless you can show that an attempt on someone's life was made as a result of it you probably wouldn't be able to make a charge of murder or attempted murder stick, at least not in something like a modern Western legal system.

Oh, attempted and conspiracy to commit it are two different things? didn't know that, weird. you overexplained dude, rest of the post was unnecessary.

[Caelestion]

Way back when, I "accidentally" murdered someone during the quest involving the grave-robbers supplying a salesman in the Imperial City. If I remember correctly, I tracked them to a tomb, found them grave-robbing, and killed them from stealth. The game counted it as murder, which is more-or-less correct.

Heh, yeah that happened to me too!

[Keltest]

Oh, attempted and conspiracy to commit it are two different things? didn't know that, weird. you overexplained dude, rest of the post was unnecessary.

Phillida has survived several attacks against him by the Dark Brotherhood before, and expresses a belief that once the sacrament is performed, then the victim is going to die no matter his efforts. Given that, I think calling it at least attempted murder is fair. If you catch somebody aiming a rifle, you don't actually need them to take a shot and miss before you can upgrade the charges.

[Rater202]

I've been thinking about this on and off.

You go to sleep tonight and you wake up in the morning on the cart being pulled to Helgen. Your body has been altered to remove any problems that might make it difficult to be the last Dragonborn with no feelings of dysphoria or dysmorphia(I mean things like being severely overweight, being aged past your prime, or having bad vision but feel free to interpret this how you wish) and you're just... The Dragonborn now.

You keep your meta knowledge, and to make up for just springing this on your whatever being is responsible* gives you a few extra perks: Enough ability to use CHIM to interact with something roughly analogous to the game interface, something or other to help you deal with the psychological effects of being in a 'kill or be killed' situation so you won't break under pressure, and a big of enough "starting upgrade" to make up for the fact that chances are you have either no skill at fighting or no skill at this kind of fighting.

The starting upgrade can be anything from "a spell weapon spell to summon a modern gun" to "you wake up at level 76 with all of the Destruction, Restoration, Alteration, and Illusion spells and perks and your level up magika/health/stamina upgrades split as evenly as possible between the three" and anything in-between

I'm quite partial to "start as vampire lord sans all vampire weaknesses, pre-dawngurd frost resistance, and let anyone who cares about that be confused by your resistance to sun damage, not needing to feed if you don't want to, and always being at full power but never being obviously a vampire to anyone who can't innately sense them." Don't give a damn about the Lore implications, let anyone in-universe be confused. If I have to explain it I'll lie.

It works... Kinda like in-game in that things don't happen till you get there and you can take all the time you want, but neither you nor the 'npcs' are limited to acting like the game is coded, you can do whatever you want and other people will react as appropriate letting you take their options like we've discussed before. Things that are obviously exploits like putting buckets on people's heads so they don't see you stealing are also not gonna work.

What do you do?

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I was always partial to doing the Imperial Arena questline but also doing The Grey Prince's quest about hs origins. Complete his sidequest where he realizes that hes' half-vampire instead of being the son of an honorable noble and he'll ask you to kill him and just stand there and take it when you challenge him for the Grand Champion title. It counts as a murder, but no bounty for it.

I ran into that with my paladin Redguard. He was so upset when Lucian approached him he jumped off the bridge to the Imperial City (and survived, much to his disappointment).

But to actually answer your question: You know that town with the Dunmer patriarch and the Nord patriarch and their families are living in peace and harmony but a Daedric Prince (I want to say Mephala) wants them to fight?

My villain-with-good-publicity Altmer conjurer denies any involvement in their deaths. He even closed the nearby Oblivion Gate so he'd have an alibi.

Also, can we take a moment to laugh at the Black Horse Courier, who provides an explicit description of how to carry out the Black Sacrament in their very public paper? Maybe that has something to do with the rise in assassination attempts?

I figured whoever wrote it was in the Dark Brotherhood themselves, or at least a supporter, and the Dark Brotherhood had previously been experiencing a dry spell so they decided to throw out some advertising.

Proving that someone performed the Black Sacrament would probably be sufficient to convict them of conspiracy to commit murder - it's evidence that they attempted to hire an assassin, after all - but unless you can show that an attempt on someone's life was made as a result of it you probably wouldn't be able to make a charge of murder or attempted murder stick, at least not in something like a modern Western legal system. If you wanted to press (attempted) murder charges, you'd probably need at minimum a suspicious death or unresolved assault which took place after the Black Sacrament is believed to have been performed as well as a motive for the defendant to hire assassins to go after whoever got attacked; otherwise, there probably isn't sufficient evidence to prosecute, let alone convict, the defendant on (attempted) murder charges.

They're not equivalent; remember Tamriel's legal system is 'guilty until proven innocent' NOT the other way around.

As a final note: the Tamriel legal system has its basis in the civilized, reasonable credo uttered by the prophet Marukh in the first era: "All are guilty until they have proven themselves innocent." Were truer word ever spoke?

Which explains why so many of our characters start the game in prison...

- If someone performs a Black Sacrament hoping to secure a contract against a Dark Brotherhood assassin in good standing, what happens? This seems like the sort of Black Sacrament which might not produce a murder attempt for a long time, especially if the Dark Brotherhood assassin targeted is someone important within the Brotherhood. (Yes, yes, Astrid performed the Black Sacrament to have a member of the Dark Brotherhood killed, but that member was herself, she had betrayed the Brotherhood, and she was dying anyways.)

Given that the only Dark Brotherhood members allowed to kill other Dark Brotherhood members under normal circumstances are the Silencers, I'd think the Nightmother just doesn't pass those prayers on to her Listener. Though you'd better be in good standing in that case, since we've seen she's cool with having her children assassinate each other if she decides they're too weak...

[Rynjin]

**** off to Cyrodiil if possible, they're not in the middle of a Civil War right now.

If I can't, join the Mage's College. Spend a lot of time actually training magic. Research, see if I can rediscover spell creation. I have theoretically all the time in the world before things get serious, especially if I never go to Saarthal. Definitely don't do anything dangerous until I have a proper suite of combat ready magic. Particularly Ebonyskin and the like.

...Maybe ask the Psijiics to take me with them when they **** off with the Eye of Magnus later. Probably never touch the main quest. The apocalypse can't happen until I LET it happen in your scenario, and dragons are scary.

My special power: I have my current mod setup...minus Wildcat, Deadly Dragons, and Sands of Time.

[Rater202]

Considering that the Hero of Kvatch knows the penalties for graverobbing and necrophilia off the top of their head, I think it's safe to say that the Hero of Kvatch was ugh graverobbing and lied about what they were doing because a bounty of a couple of hundred septims is better than being executed.

[Rynjin]

Considering that the Hero of Kvatch knows the penalties for graverobbing and necrophilia off the top of their head, I think it's safe to say that the Hero of Kvatch was ugh graverobbing and lied about what they were doing because a bounty of a couple of hundred septims is better than being executed.

Song relevant.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I've been thinking about this on and off.

You go to sleep tonight and you wake up in the morning on the cart being pulled to Helgen. Your body has been altered to remove any problems that might make it difficult to be the last Dragonborn with no feelings of dysphoria or dysmorphia(I mean things like being severely overweight, being aged past your prime, or having bad vision but feel free to interpret this how you wish) and you're just... The Dragonborn now.

You keep your meta knowledge, and to make up for just springing this on your whatever being is responsible* gives you a few extra perks: Enough ability to use CHIM to interact with something roughly analogous to the game interface, something or other to help you deal with the psychological effects of being in a 'kill or be killed' situation so you won't break under pressure, and a big of enough "starting upgrade" to make up for the fact that chances are you have either no skill at fighting or no skill at this kind of fighting.

The starting upgrade can be anything from "a spell weapon spell to summon a modern gun" to "you wake up at level 76 with all of the Destruction, Restoration, Alteration, and Illusion spells and perks and your level up magika/health/stamina upgrades split as evenly as possible between the three" and anything in-between

I'm quite partial to "start as vampire lord sans all vampire weaknesses, pre-dawngurd frost resistance, and let anyone who cares about that be confused by your resistance to sun damage, not needing to feed if you don't want to, and always being at full power but never being obviously a vampire to anyone who can't innately sense them." Don't give a damn about the Lore implications, let anyone in-universe be confused. If I have to explain it I'll lie.

It works... Kinda like in-game in that things don't happen till you get there and you can take all the time you want, but neither you nor the 'npcs' are limited to acting like the game is coded, you can do whatever you want and other people will react as appropriate letting you take their options like we've discussed before. Things that are obviously exploits like putting buckets on people's heads so they don't see you stealing are also not gonna work.

What do you do?

Well if I'm allowed to completely ignore the lore...

...then I want to be a Klyntar symbiote with immunity to sound and fire. I'll latch onto Hadvar until we get to Riverwood and then grab Delphine. Per Oblivion, the Nords even have chocolate, so we don't even have to eat brains if we don't want too!

Considering that the Hero of Kvatch knows the penalties for graverobbing and necrophilia off the top of their head, I think it's safe to say that the Hero of Kvatch was ugh graverobbing and lied about what they were doing because a bounty of a couple of hundred septims is better than being executed.

It doesn't necessarily follow. They could have been in law enforcement, or had an acquaintance with that particular...problem.

[Resileaf]

It doesn't necessarily follow. They could have been in law enforcement, or had an acquaintance with that particular...problem.

Dungeon crawling is graverobbing with good publicity.

[Rater202]

So... Wuunferth the Unliving, Ulfric's Court Wizard, is a necromancer, right?

He denies it if you ask him, but his denial has him state that he's a member of the college of Winterhold in Good Standing and that the College has banned necromancy for centuries, but if you ask a wizard at the college proper tells you that it's never been banned at the college. He is also able to identify a Necromancer's Amulet on site and knows it well, and then there's his name...

I know he teaches destruction, not conjuration, but the rumors are that he only dabbles in necromancy.

[Keltest]

So... Wuunferth the Unliving, Ulfric's Court Wizard, is a necromancer, right?

He denies it if you ask him, but his denial has him state that he's a member of the college of Winterhold in Good Standing and that the College has banned necromancy for centuries, but if you ask a wizard at the college proper tells you that it's never been banned at the college. He is also able to identify a Necromancer's Amulet on site and knows it well, and then there's his name...

I know he teaches destruction, not conjuration, but the rumors are that he only dabbles in necromancy.

Theres nothing in his NPC code that really supports that, and the conjurers at the college are, shall we say, of ill repute and manner. Its just as likely that their formal stance on Necromancy is genuinely that it is forbidden and they simply break that rule when on the grounds of the College. You are warned fairly explicitly that practicing necromancy in front of pedestrians in such a way that could be linked back to the college could cause problems, and certainly the public opinion of necromancy in general is very poor, so it makes sense they would make some token gestures to console the people that they arent going around training a bunch of tomb robbers.