The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Theoretically, Raven Rock Mine is depleted when the game starts. We discover a "new" ebony deposit deep in the mines that causes the game to spawn a bunch of active deposits in the main mine (presumably for us to not have to run through the entire dungeon to get to it every time). This is, to the best of my knowledge, the only time we see any mine not be active and ready to mine in Skyrim.

In Skyrim maybe, but there was an Ebony mine in ESO’s Vvardenfell that had run out of Ebony. Then all of a sudden it started producing again, but it turns out

Spoiler

Show

The owners had discovered some potion from Clavicus Vile they used to turn the miners into Ebony - then they smashed up the bodies and sold the bits. With the added ‘bonus’ that the fake Ebony made this way wasn’t as good as the real stuff, so they were screwing their buyers over too.

If its a proper myth, we need a part about how the Dragonborn Shouted at the mine to make it yield more ebony.

+1 this. If I can Shout at everything then I see no reason why I shouldn’t.

[Keltest]

In Skyrim maybe, but there was an Ebony mine in ESO’s Vvardenfell that had run out of Ebony. Then all of a sudden it started producing again, but it turns out

Spoiler

Show

The owners had discovered some potion from Clavicus Vile they used to turn the miners into Ebony - then they smashed up the bodies and sold the bits. With the added ‘bonus’ that the fake Ebony made this way wasn’t as good as the real stuff, so they were screwing their buyers over too.

+1 this. If I can Shout at everything then I see no reason why I shouldn’t.

That is, coincidentally, the same lost ebony mine you can find in Morrowind and sell to various councilors of Hlaalu.

[Rater202]

The quest A Deadra's Best Friend should have the option to tell Clavcus Vile to screw himself and walk off with both Barbas and the Rueful ax.

I mean, you can just refuse to complete the quest but I mean "the quest is over now and you have Barbas as a permanent companion and kept the axe."

CV is bordering n powerless at this time, there's really nothing he can do to stop you, and screwing him on a deal would be karmic justice considering that he's literally the god of acting in bad faith during a deal.

[Fyraltari]

The quest A Deadra's Best Friend should have the option to tell Clavcus Vile to screw himself and walk off with both Barbas and the Rueful ax.

I mean, you can just refuse to complete the quest but I mean "the quest is over now and you have Barbas as a permanent companion and kept the axe."

CV is bordering n powerless at this time, there's really nothing he can do to stop you, and screwing him on a deal would be karmic justice considering that he's literally the god of acting in bad faith during a deal.

Why would Barbas follow you around? He's Clavicus' dog, not yours.

In Skyrim maybe, but there was an Ebony mine in ESO’s Vvardenfell that had run out of Ebony. Then all of a sudden it started producing again, but it turns out

Spoiler

Show

The owners had discovered some potion from Clavicus Vile they used to turn the miners into Ebony - then they smashed up the bodies and sold the bits. With the added ‘bonus’ that the fake Ebony made this way wasn’t as good as the real stuff, so they were screwing their buyers over too.

Yup, that's Clavicus Vile for you.

[Rater202]

Why would Barbas follow you around? He's Clavicus' dog, not yours.

Well, for one, Clavicus did just try to convince you to kill him.

A few more years alone in that cave wth virtually no power might be enough to convince Vile that he's wrong on this one.

[Fyraltari]

Well, for one, Clavicus did just try to convince you to kill him.

A few more years alone in that cave wth virtually no power might be enough to convince Vile that he's wrong on this one.

He literally can't unless Barbas is reunited with him.

[Resileaf]

I personally can't suggest trying to mess with a Daedric lord in either case. It's... Not great for your continued good health.

[Keltest]

Well, for one, Clavicus did just try to convince you to kill him.

A few more years alone in that cave wth virtually no power might be enough to convince Vile that he's wrong on this one.

Clavicus tries that all the time. Barbas is his literal morality pet, and they both know that.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Well, for one, Clavicus did just try to convince you to kill him.

A few more years alone in that cave wth virtually no power might be enough to convince Vile that he's wrong on this one.

Given that Barbas is Clavicus (or an aspect of him anyway) that probably wouldn’t end well for Barbas either.

[Rater202]

At the very least, responding to his offer to let you keep the axe if you kill Barbas with it with "you know, I could just leave you here powerless and there's nothing you could do about it" should be an option. Even if it's just a bluff or alternative way of getting the "good" ending of the quest for some characters trying to scam the prince of scams would be an in-character option.

[Yora]

I installed Morrowind again with OpenMW 0.46 (with expansions). Are there any recommended mods that improve performance and visuals without changing gameplay or replacing characters and environment design with something new?
I want to the game to be as crisp and polished as I can get it, but still remaining the original game.

[Keltest]

At the very least, responding to his offer to let you keep the axe if you kill Barbas with it with "you know, I could just leave you here powerless and there's nothing you could do about it" should be an option. Even if it's just a bluff or alternative way of getting the "good" ending of the quest for some characters trying to scam the prince of scams would be an in-character option.

Being powerless is a function of Barbas, not the axe, and Barbas absolutely would not be happy with you trying to pull that. There isn't a scenario where that turns out well for you.

[LibraryOgre]

I personally can't suggest trying to mess with a Daedric lord in either case. It's... Not great for your continued good health.

Look, just playing Skyrim, I think my soul is double-mortgaged to Hircine (werewolf) and Nocturnal (Nightengale), plus the claims by Azura, Meridia, and the other Daedric lords I might choose to help. Some of those quests involve specifically pissing off other Daedric Lords (hello, Molag Baal).

[Rater202]

Being powerless is a function of Barbas, not the axe,

I'm aware of this.

But he offers to let you keep the axe if you kill Barbas.

There's really, however, nothing stopping you from just leaving with the axe.

"Look, Prince of deals, if you're not gonna deal in good faith then I'm not dealing with you. Take your dog back or don't but I'm leaving" or "hey, Barbas, you sure you want to go back to this guy? Maybe leaving him powerless a little longer will make him appreciate you more," if only as bluffs/alternatives to saying "no deal, take back the ax and your dog as agreed" should be options.

@In addition tot eh above, Tsun flat out says that you're going to Soverngarde when you die even if you tell him about having sworn to Noctunral or Sithis or if yu're a vampire r werewolf.

IIRC, there's even some dialog for if you do Dragonborn before finishing the main quest and there's something about how not even Herma Mora can sop you.

The Dragnborn is basically a minor god wrapped in up mortal flesh. There's really nothing that the Princes can do to you.

[Keltest]

I'm aware of this.

But he offers to let you keep the axe if you kill Barbas.

There's really, however, nothing stopping you from just leaving with the axe.

"Look, Prince of deals, if you're not gonna deal in good faith then I'm not dealing with you. Take your dog back or don't but I'm leaving" or "hey, Barbas, you sure you want to go back to this guy? Maybe leaving him powerless a little longer will make him appreciate you more," if only as bluffs/alternatives to saying "no deal, take back the ax and your dog as agreed" should be options.

@In addition tot eh above, Tsun flat out says that you're going to Soverngarde when you die even if you tell him about having sworn to Noctunral or Sithis or if yu're a vampire r werewolf.

IIRC, there's even some dialog for if you do Dragonborn before finishing the main quest and there's something about how not even Herma Mora can sop you.

The Dragnborn is basically a minor god wrapped in up mortal flesh. There's really nothing that the Princes can do to you.

Look, the absolute best case here is that vile considers it a bargaining tactic, and takes barbas and the axe and gives you the masque whether you want it or not. More likely, he takes back barbas and his axe, again without asking your opinion, and then hands you a bomb or something as a "reward" for trying to cheat him. Either way, his powerlessness is a very momentary thing that ends when he feels sufficiently motivated to end it, and you're very motivating.

[Fyraltari]

At the very least, responding to his offer to let you keep the axe if you kill Barbas with it with "you know, I could just leave you here powerless and there's nothing you could do about it" should be an option. Even if it's just a bluff or alternative way of getting the "good" ending of the quest for some characters trying to scam the prince of scams would be an in-character option.

Thing is, Clavicus could totally take the axe away from you. Deadric artifacts disappear when they/their Lord judges the current owner unworthy of them anymore.

EDIT: With that said, that particular axe is just garbage so I'm not sure why you'd want it in the first place.

[Lord Raziere]

Look, the absolute best case here is that vile considers it a bargaining tactic, and takes barbas and the axe and gives you the masque whether you want it or not. More likely, he takes back barbas and his axe, again without asking your opinion, and then hands you a bomb or something as a "reward" for trying to cheat him. Either way, his powerlessness is a very momentary thing that ends when he feels sufficiently motivated to end it, and you're very motivating.

Yeah Clavicus Vile is a Daedric Prince. they're jerks and more importantly they're god-spirit things that didn't give up their power to make Lorkhan's Weird Daedric Realm Nirn/Mundus. trying to screw with them never ends well. sure Clavicus may be a weaker one, but thats like saying he is one of the weaker stars in the sky. it only took Lorkhan and the eight Aedra to make Nirn and there are like 17 Daedric Princes, they collectively have enough power to create Nirn almost two times over.

like sure the little chestnut about scamming Hircine/Sithis/Nocturnal/Molag Bal is cool, but that only works with the death part, theoretically the Daedric Princes could screw with you and make your life a torment before that happens, more than enough quests show all the various forms they can take to be on Nirn and you really don't want them acting against you. Clavicus Vile particular is one of the more tolerated and popular Daedric princes among mortals and merchants, bankers, politicians and bureaucrats are known to venerate him, and he has on occasion known to keep his word, so you tick off this guy, your ticking off someone who can ruin you both economically and politically. the guy grants wishes besides, so angering him may in fact be much like angering a genie, and thats never wise.

[Fyraltari]

Honestly, the only Daedra I can picture taking being screwed over in good spirits are Hircine (because that's literally what he's all about), Sanguine (provided you do it in an untertaining way) and Boethiah (if only in a "I want to get mad, but their faith in my teaching is so puer!" way).

For the others, yay, trying to outsamrt a Daedric Prince, never ends well even if you're a Dragonborn, just ask Miraak.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

The Dragnborn is basically a minor god wrapped in up mortal flesh. There's really nothing that the Princes can do to you.

Uriel Septim was Dragonborn too and all Dagon had to do was kick back and let his cultists do the dirty work.

EDIT: With that said, that particular axe is just garbage so I'm not sure why you'd want it in the first place.

Also this.

[Fyraltari]

Uriel Septim was Dragonborn too

Not the same kind of Dragonborn.

[Rater202]

Thing is, Clavicus could totally take the axe away from you. Deadric artifacts disappear when they/their Lord judges the current owner unworthy of them anymore.

EDIT: With that said, that particular axe is just garbage so I'm not sure why you'd want it in the first place.

The Ax isn't a Deadric Artifact though, it's just an ax that Vile happened to have.

Like, explicitly, the Ax is not counted among the deadric artifacts in the game. If you kill Barbas it locks you out of the "get all of the deadric artifacts" achievement/trophy.

It's just an enchanted ax that Vile happened to have in his possession at one point and wants bac.

As for why you'd want it? Giving Vile a taste of his own medicine, mostly. He wants the ax back because he can have fun with it and he wants his power back, but doesn't want Barbas back. He accepts to bring back Barbas if you bring him the ax... But is also willing to give up the ax if you kill Barbas for him, thus giving him his power back without him having to take back Barbas.

The Dragonborn is canonically supposed to be hungry for power and desiring to dominate and destroy. At least threatening to leave Vile without his ax or his power unless he upholds his end of the bargain to the letter and spirit or being able to turn and leave him with nothing, giving him a taste of his own medicine... Seems like the Dragonborn thing to do, but it's not an option.

[Keltest]

The Ax isn't a Deadric Artifact though, it's just an ax that Vile happened to have.

Like, explicitly, the Ax is not counted among the deadric artifacts in the game. If you kill Barbas it locks you out of the "get all of the deadric artifacts" achievement/trophy.

It's just an enchanted ax that Vile happened to have in his possession at one point and wants bac.

As for why you'd want it? Giving Vile a taste of his own medicine, mostly. He wants the ax back because he can have fun with it and he wants his power back, but doesn't want Barbas back. He accepts to bring back Barbas if you bring him the ax... But is also willing to give up the ax if you kill Barbas for him, thus giving him his power back without him having to take back Barbas.

The Dragonborn is canonically supposed to be hungry for power and desiring to dominate and destroy. At least threatening to leave Vile without his ax or his power unless he upholds his end of the bargain to the letter and spirit or being able to turn and leave him with nothing, giving him a taste of his own medicine... Seems like the Dragonborn thing to do, but it's not an option.

Because you can't leave him without his power. That's just not something you can affect. It's entirely up to him if he takes Barbas back, and he can do it whenever as long as the dog is there.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Not the same kind of Dragonborn.

Yes, he was. But we went over this already.

The Dragonborn is canonically supposed to be hungry for power and desiring to dominate and destroy. At least threatening to leave Vile without his ax or his power unless he upholds his end of the bargain to the letter and spirit or being able to turn and leave him with nothing, giving him a taste of his own medicine... Seems like the Dragonborn thing to do, but it's not an option.

Personally I preferred drawing Mehrunes’ Razor mid-conversation.

[Fyraltari]

The Ax isn't a Deadric Artifact though, it's just an ax that Vile happened to have.

Like, explicitly, the Ax is not counted among the deadric artifacts in the game. If you kill Barbas it locks you out of the "get all of the deadric artifacts" achievement/trophy.

It's just an enchanted ax that Vile happened to have in his possession at one point and wants bac.

What? Of course it is. It's a magic item a Daedra Lord gives to mortals in bargains or in response to prayer: It's a Daedric Artifact.

[Rater202]

Because you can't leave him without his power. That's just not something you can affect. It's entirely up to him if he takes Barbas back, and he can do it whenever as long as the dog is there.

Seeing as how Barbas is implied to have most of his power, I would assume that BArbas needs to content to it.

If Barbas follows you out of the cave, Vile is screwed.

If Barbas doesn't, Vile's only recourse is to take Barbas back whether he wants to or not because that's the only way he can influence the world enough to get any recourse on your for just walking out on him and refusing to deal...

Except that following the Oblivion Crisis the Deadra have a far more limited ability to interact with the Mundus than before. Yeah, sure, Sheogorath and Sanguine and Nocturnal can show up in the Mundus, but Sanguine doesn't appear to be any stronger than a typical Dremora at this time, Nocturnal is coming in through a specific portal and only briefly, and Sheogorath isn't exactly a normal Deadric Prince and is residing within the mind of an insane ghost rather than the Mundus proper. Barbas is implied to have the lion's share of Vile's power, but is physically just a normal dog.

There is quite literally nothing Vile can do except wait for someone else to make a deal with him and have them try to kill you as their part of it... And good luck with that.

[Fyraltari]

Yes, he was. But we went over this already.

Yeah, we did. And not the same kind of Dragonborn.

[Keltest]

Seeing as how Barbas is implied to have most of his power, I would assume that BArbas needs to content to it.

If Barbas follows you out of the cave, Vile is screwed.

If Barbas doesn't, Vile's only recourse is to take Barbas back whether he wants to or not because that's the only way he can influence the world enough to get any recourse on your for just walking out on him and refusing to deal...

Except that following the Oblivion Crisis the Deadra have a far more limited ability to interact with the Mundus than before. Yeah, sure, Sheogorath and Sanguine and Nocturnal can show up in the Mundus, but Sanguine doesn't appear to be any stronger than a typical Dremora at this time, Nocturnal is coming in through a specific portal and only briefly, and Sheogorath isn't exactly a normal Deadric Prince and is residing within the mind of an insane ghost rather than the Mundus proper. Barbas is implied to have the lion's share of Vile's power, but is physically just a normal dog.

There is quite literally nothing Vile can do except wait for someone else to make a deal with him and have them try to kill you as their part of it... And good luck with that.

Except barbas wants to get back to Vile, because at the end of the day, that's his nature. You can't convince him to abandon Vile, and he's the one trying to get you to reunite them. You're literally there in the first place at Barbas' request. So we're back to "there is no good outcome for you if you try this." I just don't understand how this even superficially looks like a good move.

[Rater202]

Personally I preferred drawing Mehrunes’ Razor mid-conversation.

...I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

What? Of course it is. It's a magic item a Daedra Lord gives to mortals in bargains or in response to prayer: It's a Daedric Artifact.

No, it's not.

There's an achievement yu can get for having completed all of the Deadric Quests and obtaining all of the Deadric artifacts(Both of Hircine's rewards count towards it and the Black Star counts as well.)

If you do every other deadric quest, obtain all of their artifacts, but you killed Barbas to keep the Rueful Ax instead of returning it to get the Mask of Clavicus Vile... You don't get the Achievement.

It doesn't count towards the achievement, it's not a deadric Artifact. If you want that achievement, you need to either reload to a save before you did that quest or start a new game and collect all of the artifacts all over again.

It's just an enchanted ax. Choosing to kill Barbas for the ax is just another example of Vile trying to screw people over on deals.

@Keltest:

You leave Barbas in the cave with Vile, taking the Ax.

One of two things happens: Vile refuses to take Barbas back and is powerless to do anything to you.

Vile elects to take him back... And Barbas, being his conscience, will probably stop him from trying to screw you over, seeing as how it would be Vile's fault that you walked out on him with the ax since, in my scenario, you do it as a direct consequence of Vile trying to weasel out of a deal.

Those are the two most plausible outcomes.

[Divayth Fyr]

The Ax isn't a Deadric Artifact though, it's just an ax that Vile happened to have.

What makes it different from Spellbreaker or Volendrung? Both were not created by the Daedra.

Like, explicitly, the Ax is not counted among the deadric artifacts in the game. If you kill Barbas it locks you out of the "get all of the deadric artifacts" achievement/trophy.

Neither is the Skeleton Key, kinda explicitely a daedric artifact of Nocturnal...

[LibraryOgre]

@In addition tot eh above, Tsun flat out says that you're going to Soverngarde when you die even if you tell him about having sworn to Noctunral or Sithis or if yu're a vampire r werewolf.

Sure, Shor says so. But Shor died, because he is Lorkhan. And Akatosh may be powerful, but can he stand up to several Daedric Princes? Will he, for one soul that bartered itself to several Princes?