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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    I love weird transport networks that arnen't fast travel to the point I made an Oblivion mod that was exactly that. Essentially magical Rabbit Holes that let you get nearby to a section of the map
    The idea was to connect Aylied Ruins, but I wandered slightly off the plan with it. Still quite useful and an alternative to Fast Travel.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Morrowind didn't do player-initiated fast travel, save through magic. You wanted to go from A to B? You walked, you teleported, you took a boat or a silt strider. You couldn't just say "I want to go to Balmora", select it on the map, and travel there... you had to know how to get to Balmora through the transit network.

    Incidentally, my early game stronghold was always the Balmora Council Club. Kill everyone inside and it's a conveniently located focal point for adventures.
    And it added flavour. Interaction with the environment used to be a huge deal in the early 2000s, and this was one good way to implement it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    I love weird transport networks that arnen't fast travel to the point I made an Oblivion mod that was exactly that. Essentially magical Rabbit Holes that let you get nearby to a section of the map
    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    The idea was to connect Aylied Ruins, but I wandered slightly off the plan with it. Still quite useful and an alternative to Fast Travel.

    The propylon index official add-on for Morrowind did something similar. I personally never actually used the propylon chambers for travel, however; they were way too far off.

    An unrelated question: am I remembering this wrong, or did I have a bugged version of the game, but did Oblivion merchants never run out of gold, and instead had a maximum amount they could pay you per transaction? It felt like a programming bug.
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-06-03 at 04:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Vanilla Oblivion did indeed have every merchant with a fixed sum of money that they could use to buy any item under that price.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    The propylon index official add-on for Morrowind did something similar. I personally never actually used the propylon chambers for travel, however; they were way too far off.
    Not to mention that actually finding the propylon indexes was a royal pain, because they were generally in dungeons miles away from the associated propylon chamber. The only propylon chamber that was really quite handy was Berandas, which was pretty close to Gnisis.

    Still, I would agree--having to really think about your travel was a much-missed feature of Morrowind. Is it going to be quicker for me to reach my destination using Divine Intervention and a silt strider, or via propylon and a short walk? Where should I place my marks for future recall to make things the easiest?

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Not to mention that actually finding the propylon indexes was a royal pain, because they were generally in dungeons miles away from the associated propylon chamber. The only propylon chamber that was really quite handy was Berandas, which was pretty close to Gnisis.

    Still, I would agree--having to really think about your travel was a much-missed feature of Morrowind. Is it going to be quicker for me to reach my destination using Divine Intervention and a silt strider, or via propylon and a short walk? Where should I place my marks for future recall to make things the easiest?
    I used Propylon + Intervention a LOT.

    Perhaps my biggest problem with Morrowind's travel system was that, once you built your stronghold, it was a PAIN to get to. You couldn't get a strider or a boat or a teleporter. You were just out in the middle of nowhere. Part of why Balmora's Council Club was my favorite base.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    I wonder if they ever made a mod that added the option to pay to add different transportation systems in your mansion. So you pay 3000 to the Duke and you get the Silt Strider, 4000 to the Mages Guild and you get the guild guide, have a talk with some savant and have a propylon built inside, and so on. Those near the water could also get a ferry.
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-06-03 at 10:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Perhaps my biggest problem with Morrowind's travel system was that, once you built your stronghold, it was a PAIN to get to. You couldn't get a strider or a boat or a teleporter. You were just out in the middle of nowhere.
    Agreed, they should really have given you a propylon chamber in your stronghold or had some sort of spell that could take you there.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Agreed, they should really have given you a propylon chamber in your stronghold
    Given that the propylon chambers are only found in the abandoned Dunmer strongholds, I feel like it'd be weird for one to be part of the player character's stronghold, and for it to be useful you'd need to have found at least some of the indices for the other propylon chambers already anyways - especially if it acts like the other Propylon Chambers do and only links to two other Propylon Chambers rather than becoming a hub like the Caldera Mages' Guild does after you complete the Master Index quest.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Agreed, they should really have given you a propylon chamber in your stronghold or had some sort of spell that could take you there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Given that the propylon chambers are only found in the abandoned Dunmer strongholds, I feel like it'd be weird for one to be part of the player character's stronghold, and for it to be useful you'd need to have found at least some of the indices for the other propylon chambers already anyways - especially if it acts like the other Propylon Chambers do and only links to two other Propylon Chambers rather than becoming a hub like the Caldera Mages' Guild does after you complete the Master Index quest.
    Though, if they'd set YOUR stronghold as one of the abandoned Dunmer stronghold, that could have worked out interestingly.
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Though, if they'd set YOUR stronghold as one of the abandoned Dunmer stronghold, that could have worked out interestingly.
    Arent most of them inside the Ghostfence?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Arent most of them inside the Ghostfence?
    Only... One or two? There's definitely one that tunnels under it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Perhaps my biggest problem with Morrowind's travel system was that, once you built your stronghold, it was a PAIN to get to. You couldn't get a strider or a boat or a teleporter. You were just out in the middle of nowhere. Part of why Balmora's Council Club was my favorite base.
    Hlaalu's stronghold wasn't bad, just a few dozen jumps* south of Balmora itself, as long as you start on the right side of the river (or up a cliff from Hla Oad). Telvanni's was pretty out of the way, being in the start of the mountains west of Tel Fyr... And I can't remember where Redoran's was. Somewhere by Ald-Ruhn?

    Although, to be fair, I too just used one of the unoccupied houses in Balmora because it was shorter to the Silt Strider.

    *(i.e. "a short run" )

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Arent most of them inside the Ghostfence?
    None of the eleven Dunmer strongholds are within the Ghostfence, and I think only Falasmaryon, Telasero, and Kogoruhn have a clear Sixth House connection in Morrowind. You might be thinking of the Sixth House Citadels, where the Ash Vampires can be found.

    There's definitely one that tunnels under it.
    That'd be Kogoruhn, and Kogoruhn itself is outside of the Ghostfence, in the northern Ashlands near the Urshilaku Camp.

    Kogoruhn is also unique in not having a functional Propylon Chamber.

    And I can't remember where Redoran's was. Somewhere by Ald-Ruhn?
    Indarys Manor is at Bal Isra - if you take the road from Ald'Ruhn to Maar Gan, it's roughly midway in between. A bit more out of the way than Rethan Manor at the Odai Plateau, but not nearly as isolated as Tel Uvirith is at Uvirith's Grave.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2020-06-03 at 07:26 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Given that the propylon chambers are only found in the abandoned Dunmer strongholds, I feel like it'd be weird for one to be part of the player character's stronghold
    They could have arranged it so the player stronghold was always close to an ancient Dunmer stronghold, though (and not all of those are abandoned by any means).

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    I wonder if they ever made a mod that added the option to pay to add different transportation systems in your mansion. So you pay 3000 to the Duke and you get the Silt Strider, 4000 to the Mages Guild and you get the guild guide, have a talk with some savant and have a propylon built inside, and so on. Those near the water could also get a ferry.
    For the Tel Uvirith location there is "Building Up Uvirith's Grave" (and another one called "Building Up Uvirith's Legacy"), which turns that sorry tower into a fully functioning city. This includes silt strider transportation, an inn, a building for every playable faction, additional guards if you're a member of the legion, a city wall, and even an egg mine (your choice of using slaves or paid labor). I can't remember if you need to build the entire city first, but this also includes a throne room at the top of the tower, which has the pleasant surprise of a ring that instantly teleports you there.
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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    not all of [the Dunmer strongholds] are abandoned by any means
    They are abandoned in the sense that none of them are settlements; the primary inhabitants of all but one are bandits, slavers, Daedra cultists and Daedra, or Ash creatures.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Incidentally, my early game stronghold was always the Balmora Council Club. Kill everyone inside and it's a conveniently located focal point for adventures.
    It's been a while, but my memory is that "killing everyone in the Council Club" is not that easy. After getting my backside handed to me a couple of times, I decided it had to wait till level 10 or thereabouts, which is stretching the idea of "early game" somewhat.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    It's been a while, but my memory is that "killing everyone in the Council Club" is not that easy. After getting my backside handed to me a couple of times, I decided it had to wait till level 10 or thereabouts, which is stretching the idea of "early game" somewhat.
    You see, you should always be carrying so much sujamma, that you need to drink sujamma to carry your sujamma.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Having not really played Morrowind, what's the average endgame level for it?
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Having not really played Morrowind, what's the average endgame level for it?
    By the end of the Main Quest my first time through I was around level 27-28.

    By the end of Tribunal I was around 39 or so.

    I've never beaten Bloodmoon, but I suspect you'd be somewhere around level 45 or so by the end.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    I tend to wait until I get the quest to kill everyone in the Council Club to do that deed.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    I've tried out OpenMW for some minutes. It works really well. I also have to say that Morrowind is incredible. Something as apparently humble as the walk on the dock after you leave the ship is made in such a way, that you understand that you are entering a new world. And it can be that I simply am so used to it that it feels the right way, but even the silly swish-swish-swish-chonk combat feels good, compared to the loss of control over heavy hits in Skyrim and Oblivion (and the attrition from massive fatigue loss for a single power strike, as well as actually having to hit a lot of times anyway). The roulette factor makes trivial fights more interesting. I also like not having to stare at the talking heads. Written dialogue FTW!

    The only thing I found somewhat grating is that, when you sell items, you have to choose the quantity even if you only have two of the same kind. Skyrim simply has you click once per item. I also haven't ventured far, so I haven't had to deal with fatigue loss.

    Concerning speed, what I'd like is a mod that:
    - increases base speed, and turns running into sprinting
    - does not let you get overly slowed by encumbrance, because it simply stops you from walking much earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talion View Post
    For the Tel Uvirith location there is "Building Up Uvirith's Grave" (and another one called "Building Up Uvirith's Legacy"), which turns that sorry tower into a fully functioning city. This includes silt strider transportation, an inn, a building for every playable faction, additional guards if you're a member of the legion, a city wall, and even an egg mine (your choice of using slaves or paid labor). I can't remember if you need to build the entire city first, but this also includes a throne room at the top of the tower, which has the pleasant surprise of a ring that instantly teleports you there.
    Thanks for the info, if I really get around to a new playthrough, I will make sure I install it.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Having not really played Morrowind, what's the average endgame level for it?
    Depends on what you mean by 'endgame.' It's entirely possible to complete the main quest of Morrowind by about level 15-20 without doing anything particularly weird, and the game seems to have been designed with the assumption that level 20 is about as high as you'll get in normal gameplay - the leveled lists for shops and loot don't have anything special reserved for characters over level 20 (most of them, for that matter, stop adding 'better' things in the mid- to late-teens; I think grandmaster alchemy equipment might be the only thing that any leveled list reserves for level 20+ characters), there's a late busywork section of the main quest (the House Hortator and Ashlander Tribe Nerevarine quests) that can be skipped if you're already level 21+ and have enough renown by the time you get to it, and to my recollection there's no new creatures spawning in the world past the late-teens or maybe low-twenties. Tribunal and Bloodmoon each probably add about ten levels to that, so endgame Tribunal is probably level ~25-30 while endgame Bloodmoon is probably level ~35-40 - though you could probably manage them at lower levels if you really wanted to do so.

    If by 'endgame' you mean something closer to 100% completion of all available faction quest lines, then that'll probably take longer and Hagashager's mid-high twenties / high thirties / mid forties implied estimates for Morrowind / Tribunal / Bloodmoon seem reasonable to me.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Sorry, I had a clear thought in my head of what it meant. But yes, end game being you've reached the point where you've done all you want to with the character and are ready to retire them and begin a new one.

    So 10 is either 1/3rd through or half done with the game.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    If you use people you are reasonably expected to kill and their level as an indicator, lvl 30 (Marara and the vampire leaders) seems about it. A Morag Tong quest requires you to kill a lvl 25 character, and the main quest targets a lvl 26 character.

    Looking for high level characters, apparently there are some non-aggressive npcs in the Dunmer strongholds (Missun atop Falasmaryon, Alfhedil in Falensarano and Abelle in Valenvaryon, all being master trainers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    So 10 is either 1/3rd through or half done with the game.


    I don't think so, afair higher levels are gained more slowly.
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-06-04 at 08:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Of course, Morrowind is much more generous with ways to break the game than future Elder Scrolls, so a lot of content can be defeated way ahead of time.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    If you use people you are reasonably expected to kill and their level as an indicator, lvl 30 (Marara and the vampire leaders) seems about it. A Morag Tong quest requires you to kill a lvl 25 character, and the main quest targets a lvl 26 character.
    It's been a while since I've done it, but my recollection is that Marara's not really any more difficult to deal with than a Storm Atronach or a Hunger, and you'll be fighting those in the mid- to high-teen levels.

    As to the level 26 character targeted by part of the Main Quest, if you're fighting him by the time you're of about the same level it's pretty much entirely because you've chosen to do so, because the House Hortator quests do not need to be completed to progress with the Main Quest if you're level 21+ and have 50+ renown.

    Also, I would suggest that the level of the character you're expected to kill is not a particularly good guide to what level you're supposed to be when you kill them; it's certainly not a good guide to when you'll actually get a quest to kill them - the Balmora Council Club NPCs that Larius Varro wants to involve in a bloodbath are all level 9, for instance, but there's a decent chance you'll get the quest to kill them at level one or two if you follow the only quest hook you really have to pull you out of Seyda Neen at the beginning of the game and I don't think I've ever waited that long to kill them unless I just didn't go to Balmora early. There's also a bunch of hostile NPCs in Bloodmoon in the level 50+ range, several of which (level 80 Berserker Denmother, level 87 Gibbering Lunatic, level 88 Gibbering Lunatic, level 99 Insane Wanderer) exceed the nominal maximum character level for any player character,* and a number of other Bloodmoon NPCs are near the top end of the player character level range or exceed the nominal maximum level for some race/class combinations. If you include unique creatures, there's also that the final bosses of Tribunal and Bloodmoon are listed as level 100 in the Construction Set and a miniboss of sorts towards the end of the Tribunal main quest is listed as level 80.

    * Level 68.5 to level 77.5, depending on how class skills, class specialization, and racial skills align. Assumes no 'tricks' (e.g. skill loss from imprisonment or Drain Skill on Self) to obtain more than (100 - [starting skill level]) levels in any class skills.

    Looking for high level characters, apparently there are some non-aggressive npcs in the Dunmer strongholds (Missun atop Falasmaryon, Alfhedil in Falensarano and Abelle in Valenvaryon, all being master trainers).
    The highest-level nonhostile NPC in Morrowind is Divayth Fyr, at level 65; Barenziah, in Tribunal, surpasses him, at level 70. If you include unique creatures, Vivec and Almalexia are listed as level 100 in the Construction Set.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2020-06-04 at 10:08 PM.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    The highest-level nonhostile NPC in Morrowind is Divayth Fyr, at level 65; Barenziah, in Tribunal, surpasses him, at level 70. If you include unique creatures, Vivec and Almalexia are listed as level 100 in the Construction Set.
    That Bethesda made Vivec killable and made it possible to complete the game with him dead says a lot about their trust of players breaking the game.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    That Bethesda made Vivec killable and made it possible to complete the game with him dead says a lot about their trust of players breaking the game.
    Like the proprylons, it may also have something to do with the social effects of vampirism.

    That Yagrum is the only really essential character might explain his odd final years. That's not a thread, that's a boom chain of profecy (and yet not enough to survive contact with the player...)
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Hagashager View Post
    I've never beaten Bloodmoon, but I suspect you'd be somewhere around level 45 or so by the end.
    I've finished Bloodmoon a couple of times, and I don't think I've ever reached level 40. The first time I went to Solstheim I was about level 20, feeling pretty cocky about my ability to handle anything in the game, and got a nasty shock when I tried to tackle a couple of renegade legionaries. But it wasn't ten levels' worth of whuppass they handed me, I was back within five, and able to complete the main quest then.

    And of course, if you take the trouble to optimise your levelling, you can do it sooner.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    The only thing I found somewhat grating is that, when you sell items, you have to choose the quantity even if you only have two of the same kind. Skyrim simply has you click once per item. I also haven't ventured far, so I haven't had to deal with fatigue loss.
    I highly recommend OpenMW, though its biggest drawback is that you can't use MWSE with it.

    When selling items in stores, try using Ctrl-click and Shift-click - I think that they default to one or all of the item clicked.

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