The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

[Lurkmoar]

What, killing off everything non-essential, breathing fire and hoarding every last bit of gold isn't quite dragon enough for you?

[Rater202]

What, killing off everything non-essential, breathing fire and hoarding every last bit of gold isn't quite dragon enough for you?

That's the destruction part.

Not the conquest part.

In terms of conquest, there's... Nothing.

A problem in games like this is that you don't get to be very proactive. You just take orders from others until you stumble into a leadership position that you don't really get to do anything with.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Either clean up the corruption in each hold that it or twist it t serve your own needs.

I usually go Imperial when I do the Civil War at all, and it would be really nice to feed Maven Blackbriar into a woodchipper. Not sure who I would replace her with though. Maybe Mjoll? Not sure if she’s pro-Imperial but she at least cares about cleaning up Riften.

[Eldan]

My headcanon is absolutely that my main character marched into Cyrodiil after the main quest and Dragonborn and Talos'd himself on the throne. Who's going to stop him?

[Fyraltari]

Not exactly.

The Daedra did not spawn from Aetherius, and was never their home. They spawned from the Void of Sithis. The Aedra originated from Aetherius. the Daedra made Oblivion in mockery of Mundus, but Oblivion is considered the inverse of Aetherius. For some reason.

Where is that from? I know to origin stories for the (D)Aedra: either they were all Et'Ada who only separated themselves when the world was created or the Daedra arose from Padomay's blood, the stars (likely meaning the Magna-Ge) from Anu's and the Aedra from the mixture of both. And the fact that Beothiah was able to turn an Aedra (Trinimac) into a Daedra (Malacath) suggests the former to me as I can see Trinimac's connection to the Mundus being severed but have a harder time picturing how she could change whose blood gave birth to him.

this is because Aetherius is basically Anu, the soul of the universe, it is static light, unchanging and the source of all magic, while Sithis is change.

Anu is supposed to have left the Aurbis, though. I guess Anu-iel could be Aetherius, then, we almost never hear about him/it/whatever.

Sithis of course made Lorkhan to destroy Anu and the Daedra somehow, supposedly.

Smells like Thalmor propaganda.

My headcanon is absolutely that my main character marched into Cyrodiil after the main quest and Dragonborn and Talos'd himself on the throne. Who's going to stop him?

The Imperial Legion. That's literally what it's for.

Also Talos inherited (or "inherited" if you believe Arctus) the throne from Culhecain. Not sure how The Last Dragonborn could pull something similar.

[Keltest]

As far as it goes, in Cyrodil being Dragonborn was synonymous with being Emperor for... how many hundreds or thousands of years? It gives you a fairly solid starting position, as far as they go.

[Fyraltari]

As far as it goes, in Cyrodil being Dragonborn was synonymous with being Emperor for... how many hundreds or thousands of years? It gives you a fairly solid starting position, as far as they go.

Not really, the dragonfires are extinguished so that's rather irrelevant and no Emperor ever became emperor on the basis of being dragonborn alone. If that were the case, Mankar Camoran would have had a better claim than Martin to the throne.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

As far as it goes, in Cyrodil being Dragonborn was synonymous with being Emperor for... how many hundreds or thousands of years? It gives you a fairly solid starting position, as far as they go.

Cyrodiil also may or may not have had to replace the Emperor recently, which could also help. If said Dragonborn also joined the Imperial Legion…may or may not help, depending on how popular they are with the lower ranks vs. the Emperor. Personally I’d be looking for some distant cousin of the Emperor’s to marry and/or go about fudging some records to claim to be said distant cousin, to legitimize the claim, but it does depend on how stable the current dynasty’s foundation is. If Skyrim is anything to go by, ‘not very’, and that might not be necessary.

Not really, the dragonfires are extinguished so that's rather irrelevant and no Emperor ever became emperor on the basis of being dragonborn alone.

Reman Cyrodiil says hi. The Tsaesci made him Emperor pretty much solely because he was Dragonborn.

[Fyraltari]

Cyrodiil also may or may not have had to replace the Emperor recently, which could also help.

I doubt Motierre hired the Dark Brotherhood without having somebody ready to take over from Titus. So it's likely that by the time The Last Dragonborn gets to the Imperial City in that scenaio somebody is already sitting on the ruby throne.

If said Dragonborn also joined the Imperial Legion…may or may not help, depending on how popular they are with the lower ranks vs. the Emperor.

I doubt the legion stationned in Skyrim would want to start another Civil War. Pretty sure Tullius would have you in irons for the mere suggestion of starting a coup, too.

Personally I’d be looking for some distant cousin of the Emperor’s to marry and/or go about fudging some records to claim to be said distant cousin, to legitimize the claim, but it does depend on how stable the current dynasty’s foundation is. If Skyrim is anything to go by, ‘not very’, and that might not be necessary.

That's a better plan already, but there are too many unknown factors for us to judge wether that could work.

Reman Cyrodiil says hi. The Tsaesci made him Emperor pretty much solely because he was Dragonborn.

Reman Cyrodiil already controlled Cyrodiil by the time the Tscaesci showed up. Also while his being dragonborn certainly played a part in them swearing fealty to him, I feel like the part where he had them surrounded in a valley is too often overlooked as a cause for their surrender.

[Keltest]

Its not necessarily the literal power of being Dragonborn so much as the fact that a lot of Imperials, Nords and Bretons would associate that with the divine right to rule the Empire. Its not an automatic ticket in, but it is historically a very strong claim to push. There are plenty of people who would give you the crown simply on the basis of you being a Dragonborn come to claim the throne, like the Septims of old.

[halfeye]

Beothiah was able to turn an Aedra (Trinimac) into a Daedra (Malacath) suggests the former to me as I can see Trinimac's connection to the Mundus being severed but have a harder time picturing how she could change whose blood gave birth to him.

Eh? If I remember, in Oblivion it was Molag Bal who ate Trinimac?

[Lord Raziere]

Where is that from? I know to origin stories for the (D)Aedra: either they were all Et'Ada who only separated themselves when the world was created or the Daedra arose from Padomay's blood, the stars (likely meaning the Magna-Ge) from Anu's and the Aedra from the mixture of both. And the fact that Beothiah was able to turn an Aedra (Trinimac) into a Daedra (Malacath) suggests the former to me as I can see Trinimac's connection to the Mundus being severed but have a harder time picturing how she could change whose blood gave birth to him.


Anu is supposed to have left the Aurbis, though. I guess Anu-iel could be Aetherius, then, we almost never hear about him/it/whatever.

Smells like Thalmor propaganda.

1-Just what I could find the on the wiki but looking into it: the idea that the nine divines are from Aetherius is from the Pocket guide to the Empire. the idea that the Daedra created Oblivion in mockery of Mundus is from the Monomyth. the book "Aedra and Daedra" gives the elven distinction of "ancestor/not ancestor" distinction but also says the Aedra are associated with stasis and the Daedra with change. It is the Monomyth that says that the Daedra are "spirits and Gods more attuned to Oblivion, or that realm closer to the Void of Padomay".

2-it is kind of hard to find much distinction between Anu and Anui-El yes.....

3-No. the idea that Sithis created Lorkhan to destroy the works of Anu has nothing to do with the Thalmor, and in fact comes from a text named Sithis dating back to ESIII: Morrowind, in the Third Era and in Skyrim is only found after the Dark Brotherhood questline is started. Unless the Thalmor are time travelers capable of placing books in four different locations of Morrowind, the idea that they have anything to do with it is not possible and is propagated by those who truly believe in Padomay as the true god and Original Creator due being an agent of change. (an idea also from the Monomyth)

The Monomyth the wiki page, for reference.

[Fyraltari]

Its not necessarily the literal power of being Dragonborn so much as the fact that a lot of Imperials, Nords and Bretons would associate that with the divine right to rule the Empire. Its not an automatic ticket in, but it is historically a very strong claim to push. There are plenty of people who would give you the crown simply on the basis of you being a Dragonborn come to claim the throne, like the Septims of old.

Are there really? The Elder Council probably wouldn't and neither would most of the nobles in Cyrodiil and High Rock. Tullius probably wouldn't support your claim, if only because that's not his call to make. Ulfric would rather focus on waging war against the Aldmeri Dominion than making a push into the rest of the Empire. The people of Skyrim would probably be all for it, but I doubt the people of Cyrodiil and High Rock care one bit about you. How widespread is the knowledge of the connection between dragonborn and emperor anyway? The dragonborn emperors weren't known to go dragon-hunting after all, their divine right was shown by wearing the Amulet of Kings and lighting the Dragonfires, neither of which TLD can do. And they popularity would probably plummet if they descended from Skyrim leading an army of Nord to claim the throne. No-one likes an invader.

Not to mention that of the four dynasties of Emperor (not counting the Longhouse Emperors) three were founded by born and bred Cyrodiils with a pre-existing powerbase and the outlier (Tiber Septim) spent years as right-hand man to the man who was poised to become Emperor, cultivating goodwill within the army at home. And when he proclaimed himself Emperor there was no other candidates and no established line of succession.

Frankly the most likely result of TLD crowning themselves Emperor would be another civil war, which the people of Skyrim would not be happy about when they're just done with one ontop of an invasion of dragons plus the fallout of the Great War and the Markarth Incident.
The Thalmor however would love every minute of it.

[DigoDragon]

Also Talos inherited (or "inherited" if you believe Arctus) the throne from Culhecain. Not sure how The Last Dragonborn could pull something similar.

"So, just before the current emperor died of natural causes on his ship, he wrote this totally legit Will that bequeathed the throne to me." ;)

(hail sithis)

[Misery Esquire]

"So, just before the current emperor died of natural causes on his ship, he wrote this totally legit Will that bequeathed the throne to me." ;)

(hail sithis)

Ah, the William of Normandy maneuver.

Well, Willy probably wasn't a nihilistic mercenary cult assassin that killed the previous sovereign, but you know.

[veti]

I usually go Imperial when I do the Civil War at all, and it would be really nice to feed Maven Blackbriar into a woodchipper. Not sure who I would replace her with though. Maybe Mjoll? Not sure if she’s pro-Imperial but she at least cares about cleaning up Riften.

Laila has a son who is "in disgrace" for having vaguely pro-Imperial views. He'd be an obvious candidate, it'd soften the blow to Laila (who's a decent enough old stick, all things considered) to keep it in the family.

Mjoll is well travelled, but not particularly pro-Imperial as far as we can tell.

Maven is the number one reason why I only ever did the civil war once for the Imperials. I'd be willing to support them if not for her. (The number two reason being Tullius...)

Edit: Does anyone know what happens if you transfer Riften to the Imperials during "Season Unending", then win it back for the Stormcloaks in the war? Do Laila and Maven go back exactly to their previous relationship?

In terms of conquest, there's... Nothing.

A problem in games like this is that you don't get to be very proactive. You just take orders from others until you stumble into a leadership position that you don't really get to do anything with.

As you observe, it's hard to write. So hard that it's not really even available from mods. (There's one called "Become High King of Skyrim", but as far as I can see all it amounts to is a few extra dialogue options for dealing with the rabble. And the Blue Palace becomes a player home. Big whoop.)

[LibraryOgre]

As you observe, it's hard to write. So hard that it's not really even available from mods. (There's one called "Become High King of Skyrim", but as far as I can see all it amounts to is a few extra dialogue options for dealing with the rabble. And the Blue Palace becomes a player home. Big whoop.)

Look, it's very simple. I marry Eislief, and challenge Ulfric Stormcloak to a debate. Whoever is left standing wins.

[Eldan]

The Imperial Legion. That's literally what it's for.

Also Talos inherited (or "inherited" if you believe Arctus) the throne from Culhecain. Not sure how The Last Dragonborn could pull something similar.

I mean, they can try. But if CHIM is a thing... yeah, no.

Alternatively, he could just try it like Reman, just convince entire armies to worship him with his dragonborn charisma.

I mean, I'm being facetious when I say just stroll in and take the throne. Of course you don't just walk into the palace and sit on the Ruby Throne and tell people "So, what are you going to do about it?", you build a power base first.

Our Dragonborn has a solid power base in Skyrim. Depending on what you see as canon, he leads some organisations, has some followers. If we scale up from "game scale" to "lore scale", having one Huskarl and like three people in your guild can easily scale up to a small army, and it's not unlikely the new high king of Skyrim will support you. Make it public you are the Dragonborn, killed Alduin, saved the world, have Akatosh at your back. Surely, if we go from what is programmed into the game to what would happen in a more living world, you can get more supporters that way. Get a few Cyrodillic nobles on your side, get some help from the blades, it's not impossible.

[Eldan]

How widespread is the knowledge of the connection between dragonborn and emperor anyway? The dragonborn emperors weren't known to go dragon-hunting after all, their divine right was shown by wearing the Amulet of Kings and lighting the Dragonfires, neither of which TLD can do. And they popularity would probably plummet if they descended from Skyrim leading an army of Nord to claim the throne. No-one likes an invader.

I mean, how much Old Lore are we counting? There's descriptions of Cyrodiil from pre-Oblivion that say there are dragons roosting in the White Gold Tower.

[Eldan]

Look, it's very simple. I marry Eislief, and challenge Ulfric Stormcloak to a debate. Whoever is left standing wins.

What did the continent ever do to you? Because that's how you get continental drift.

[Vinyadan]

Becoming High King sounds cool, but you couldn't become Duke of Vvardenfell or King of Morrowind or Emperor of Tamriel in the previous games, so I don't think it was meant to be implemented. Morrowind got close, by making you leader of a House (which I guess is similar to making you a Jarl), but, even in mere administration, you still had someone above yourself (Vedam Dren).

What is super-weird is that Skyrim never elects a High King, however. You fight a war for one of the candidates, then everyone is left hanging, while the point was to make one of these two High King. Even the crown never shows up again.

Spoiler: Oblivion

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By comparison, Oblivion ends without an Emperor, but your true mission was to stop the Daedra, not to save the dinasty. Its end and the beginning of political instability had long been foreshadowed, at least since Morrowind (with talk of unrest in the capital and the attempted lynching of the Emperor's children, accused of being creations of Jagar Tharn); plus, the Septims really went out with a bang.

[Eldan]

I mean, I thought it was weird in Morrowind, too. Look at some of the prophecies about the Nerevarine, especially among the Ashlanders. You're not only supposed to destroy Dagoth Ur, but also drive away the Empire and restore Dunmer rule. I mean, yeah, you're also an Imperial Plant and Azura basically said she set up the prophecy for her own ends, but still. They had to basically go "And then the Nerevarine died on the way to his home planet" in Oblivion to explain why Morrowind wasn't in major revolt.

"Dragonborn" is an even more political title. The three Major dynasties of the Empire of Cyrodiil all took a large part of their justification from being Dragonborn, because it implies having the support of Akatosh and a divine Right to rule. It should at least come up in Skyrim.

In Oblivion, by comparision, you're kind of a nobody. You're just muscle for Martin. It's much less surprising when that hero vanishes after the main quest.

[Misery Esquire]

I mean, I thought it was weird in Morrowind, too. Look at some of the prophecies about the Nerevarine, especially among the Ashlanders. You're not only supposed to destroy Dagoth Ur, but also drive away the Empire and restore Dunmer rule. I mean, yeah, you're also an Imperial Plant and Azura basically said she set up the prophecy for her own ends, but still. They had to basically go "And then the Nerevarine died on the way to his home planet" in Oblivion to explain why Morrowind wasn't in major revolt.

Technically speaking the Nerevarine did drive off the Empire, remove the Tribunal, and restore Vvardenfell to purely Dunmer control as the tribes wanted - just through the consequences of their actions rather than directly.

Cutting Vivec's power cut the tethers on that small "moon" thereby leading to the blowing up of the island. Imperials gone, ashy Morrowind for the Dunmer!

What, you thought the Daedra weren't going to Monkey's Paw you, Ashlanders?

[Resileaf]

Mind you, only some prophecies indicate that the Nerevarine will throw out the Imperials. The Ashlanders were very keen to ignore all the prophecies that didn't fulfill what they desired themselves.

[veti]

Look, it's very simple. I marry Eislief, and challenge Ulfric Stormcloak to a debate. Whoever is left standing wins.

Sure, that bit is easy enough. But then what? What do you actually get to do, as High King?

Negotiate with the Empire, or Hammerfell, or Black Marsh? Declare war on the Thalmor? Institute political and educational reforms? Build infrastructure?

Nope. You get to run around the countryside exactly as before, only now everyone is calling you "sire" for some reason. But that doesn't stop them asking you to run errands for them.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

How widespread is the knowledge of the connection between dragonborn and emperor anyway?

*can’t tell if trolling or serious*

Look, it's very simple. I marry Eislief, and challenge Ulfric Stormcloak to a debate. Whoever is left standing wins.

I like this plan. Either Ulfric loses outright, or he is known throughout the land as the guy who killed the only person who could/did save the world. Even if he wins, he loses.

Negotiate with the Empire, or Hammerfell, or Black Marsh? Declare war on the Thalmor? Institute political and educational reforms? Build infrastructure?

I’m in favor of rebuilding the walls of Whiterun and maybe start building emergency shelters for Dragon attacks.

[halfeye]

Ah, the William of Normandy maneuver.

Well, Willy probably wasn't a nihilistic mercenary cult assassin that killed the previous sovereign, but you know.

I thought he pretty much was?

[Lurkmoar]

Eh? If I remember, in Oblivion it was Molag Bal who ate Trinimac?

No, it was Boethiah.

In the Late-Middle Merethic Era, Boethiah began appearing in the dreams and visions of a young prophet, Veloth. These visions guided Veloth in the creation of a new sect of Aldmeri dissidents, with a core belief being that mortals could ascend to godhood. However, the followers of Trinimac, the most powerful of the et'Ada, stridently opposed this new cult. His priests condemned the dissidents for blasphemy, threatening them with exile should they remain devoted to the teachings of Veloth. In response, it is said that Trinimac was tricked into going into Boethiah's mouth—or more literally, that Boethiah ate Trinimac.

As the priests prepared to pass judgment on the Veloth and his cult, Boethiah appeared before them in the guise and with the voice of Trinimac. He (Boethiah) gathered a crowd and began to tell them of the "lies" of the Aedra, and in particular of Trinimac; he spoke of the "Tri-Angled Truth", how to create the future Chimer culture, and with Mephala, the rules of Psijic Endeavor. When he was sure the priests were shamed and broken, and as proof of the truth of his words, Boethiah relieved himself of Trinimac in front of the crowd. The followers of both the Aedra and the Daedra then "rubbed the soil of Trinimac upon themselves and changed their skins". This reportedly made it easy for Boethiah's new people to become the "Changed Ones".

[DigoDragon]

Sure, that bit is easy enough. But then what? What do you actually get to do, as High King?

I dunno, dude. Marriage is one of those quest lines you really gotta commit yourself to. And don't slack off on training that Speech skill, or you might get temporarily kicked out of nice player house and into an unmodded Breeze home. XD

I honestly don't like being in charge of anything in Skyrim. I prefer to put others in charge that I think would be better for the land and for relations with the empire. More time to run around slaying problems.

[Kantaki]

I’m in favor of rebuilding the walls of Whiterun and maybe start building emergency shelters for Dragon attacks.

So the dragons have a place to hide when the locals start hitting them?