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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Welcome back to the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition! Man, it's been a while, hasn't it? Let's have something simple, accessible, and furiously aggravating to make stand out.

    The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 game element (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level—where applicable—in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take as many levels as possible in said SI or that otherwise use it as heavily as possible.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a 1-5 point scale in four categories: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient. The builds with the highest three scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread. (HM may not always be awarded, particularly if the number of builds is very small.) And then we all have cake!*

    *Note: You must provide your own cake.

    This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!
    • Cooking Time: Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by 4:59 PM GMT - 9 on Monday, May 11, 2020 (1:59 AM GMT on Tuesday, May 12). The reveal shall be on the first evening the Chair has free following the cooking deadline, which is hoped to be that evening or the immediately subsequent one—I'll do my best, anyway. Judging is then encouraged to go as quickly as possible; if multiple judges volunteer, we'll set about a two-week window, but if we only get one judge, we'll try to wrap up as soon as possible after that judge presents scores. (I will admit that the deadline time may not be an exact science, but don't hide from me and we'll probably be cool.)
    • Kitchen: Let's break this one down a bit.

      Spoiler: Let's talk about sources
      Show

      • ALLOWED: Almost all D&D 3.5 material published by WotC: Core, Completes, monster books, Races Of books, alternate power source books (Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, etc.), Spell Compendium, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Eberron material, Forgotten Realms material, and other WotC-published 3.5 material. (This list is NOT exhaustive and there are many other legal books that I did not mention by name!)
      • ALLOWED: Material from the 3.5 archives of the Wizards of the Coast website (including, but not limited to, the Mind's Eye articles). If you use it, link it.
      • ALLOWED: Official errata from WotC. If you're relying on this in a material fashion, it's a good idea to link it and to discuss it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Unofficial errata, including "class fixes" (regardless of the source, including from the original author if not published in a WotC book) or fan-created content.
      • ALLOWED: Unupdated WotC-published 3.0 material (e.g., Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, etc.) except for 3.0 psionics. No 3.0 psionics allowed. If you are using 3.0 material, use the general-purpose skill updates (Wilderness Lore becomes Survival, Innuendo becomes Bluff, etc.) and the general-purpose rules updates (spells with a casting time of "1 action" become "1 standard action," etc.) when appropriate.
      • NOT ALLOWED: 3.0 material for which a direct 3.5 update exists. Use the updated material instead.
      • ALLOWED: Dragon Compendium and its errata.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Content from Dragon Magazine and/or Dungeon Magazine unless said content appears in an otherwise allowed source.
      • ALLOWED: Oriental Adventures, including the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures from Dragon Magazine #318. This is a specific exception to the "no Dragon" rule!
      • NOT ALLOWED: Pathfinder content, regardless of whether it is "D&D 3.5 OGL" or not. If it didn't come from WotC, we don't want it.
      • ALLOWED: From Unearthed Arcana: racial paragon classes, alternate class features/variant classes, spelltouched feats, and variant races. (Traits and flaws are technically legal, but traits warrant a -0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a -1 penalty in Elegance.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Other Unearthed Arcana content, including (but not limited to) bloodlines, LA buyoff, fractional BAB/saves, alternate casting systems, alternate skill systems, item familiars, prestigious character classes, generic classes, gestalt, etc. When you're wondering if UA content is allowed, err on the side of caution and don't mess around with it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Leadership, regardless of source. Game elements functionally equivalent to Leadership (including, but not limited to, Dragon Cohort, Undead Leadership, and Thrallherd) are similarly banned. (Familiars, Improved Familiar, animal companions, Wild Cohort, psicrystals, elemental envoys, and similar game elements are allowed, and they are not considered to be "Leadership." If the difference isn't obvious, feel free to contact the Chair with specific questions.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Third-party content, homebrew, or other non-WotC content.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook. Just because you're "epic" in E6 after 6th level doesn't mean that you're that kind of epic.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Any race or template with a level adjustment other than +0. (Or any other source of LA other than a race or template, if any such things exist.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: For our judges: penalizing solely based on legal sources used, regardless of whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between. If the material is legal, then it doesn't matter how many or how few books it came out of.
      • ALLOWED: Also for our judges: penalizing for using a source (other than material in Core; don't be vindictive about genuinely obvious stuff) that isn't listed in the build writeup. The chef may choose to present the sources in-line with the text, in a consolidated source list, or somewhere else, but if the source is listed (and is otherwise legal), it counts. If the source is not listed, you may choose to penalize for that.

      If you have questions about anything in this section (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.
    • Character Creation: 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned. (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest.) No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.
    • Highlighted because of past issues: It is not enough for your build to end with a level adjustment of +0. You must be +0 from start to finish. No using ANY build elements with a level adjustment above +0, even if they then get mitigated or reduced somehow.
    • Speculation: Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool. This means NOT posting any of the following or anything substantially similar: what you think is going to be common, significant elements of your planned build or of other potential builds, or anything else that could directly influence someone else's build choices for good or for ill. (It's acceptable to ask for rules clarifications as appropriate, but try to avoid tipping your hand too much.) Speculation is bad because it can discourage people from posting builds and can also "taint the judging pool" when it comes to Originality, so please just try to be aware of how other people might react to your speculation.
    • E6: Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels. We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules, instead preferring to just ban races with LA, at least for now. We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook, though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.
    • Presentation: Please use the table found below in the spoiler. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round. When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.
      If you're using a picture, cite the source and follow any relevant citation rules. Because we have had issues with this in the past, when listing your skills, please make it very clear how many ranks you have at each level. There are multiple ways to do this and we do not wish to cramp anyone's individual style by dictating exactly how this must look, but make sure that somewhere in your entry there's an explanation of how many actual skill ranks you have. It's still fine to list total skill bonuses, if that's your style, but don't only list bonuses; make sure that there is a clear listing somewhere of your ranks alone.
      Spoiler
      Show
      Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
      1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      Code for the table:
      Spoiler
      Show
      [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
      [tr]
      [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]1st[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]2nd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]3rd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]4th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]5th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]6th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr][/table]
    • Contest houserules: Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat). When taking Open Minded as an epic feat, any skill that has ever been a class skill for you (including through your class, your race, your feats, or similar game elements, though please don't muck around with retroactively making something stop being a class skill for some stupid reason) is a class skill when determining how the 5 granted skill points may be spent. All usual rules about HD-related skill caps apply. When taking Open Minded as a non-epic feat, treat it as normal; the class skills of the class you took at the level you gained Open Minded (plus race, feats, etc.) are your class skills for those skill points, similar to if Open Minded's skill points came straight from your class.
    • Judging guidelines: The minimum score in a category is 1, and the maximum is 5. Judges are expected to be fair, consistent, and open-minded, and they are expected to make a good-faith effort to engage with any reasonable disputes that arise, especially when RAW is in question. That said, contestants are asked to not dispute more than necessary; let's do everything in good faith and really only dispute when a judge is being inconsistent, being unfair, or is otherwise grossly misinterpreting a build.
      Judges may not penalize Originality solely because a build is a tribute or homage to an existing creative work (in or out of D&D canon; note that this is not the same thing as penalizing Originality for using well-known optimization tactics), nor may judges penalize based solely on sources used (whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between, you should judge the build elements and how they work together rather than what book or what books they came out of, as long as those books are legal for this contest and are cited in the entry).
      As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline, and it is very important that the judges adhere to it. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much:
      Spoiler
      Show
      Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

      Non-exhaustive list of examples:

      Skills
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
      • Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
      • Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


      Not allowed:
      • Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

      Prereqs
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
      • Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
      • Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
      • Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


      Not Allowed:
      • "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
      • Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes

      Other general things that are no longer allowed:
      • Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
      • Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


      Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
    • Dispute guidelines (NEW, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION): Disputing is long, annoying, and emotional. It's also sometimes necessary, but it's often not actually something that makes everyone have more fun. Let's go into a little more detail here.
      Spoiler
      Show
      • Do NOT dispute to make an argument that goes fundamentally beyond what's in your write-up. It is the responsibility of the chef to make sure that the write-up is complete and contains their best arguments for what the build does and why it's awesome. If you didn't explain your tactics well or didn't spell out something that a judge misses, just do better next time. Don't drag it out after the fact.
      • Do NOT dispute just to be clever or witty or cheeky. Please. We're all adults here and so I assume you know what that means. Don't treat the build as a setup and your oh-so-clever dispute as the punchline. It's not as funny as it is in your head. Trust me. I've been down that road.
      • Do NOT dispute just to say "oh yeah, my bad, I missed that" or some equivalent. If you're not directly challenging the judge, save the commentary until after the reveal. I 100% get that the urge to respond to commentary is very strong, but type it out and sit on it for a while if you've gotta.
      • Do NOT dispute just to try to wheedle more points out of the judge. Note that this is different from saying that the judge is being truly unfair or is being truly wrong by black-and-white RAW. A dispute is NOT the place to try to scrape together a few last quarter-points. If you didn't put it in your write-up, that's on you. This also means that a dispute is really not the place to have long back-and-forth tit-for-tat arguments. That's a surefire way to get people grumpy. It's a contest on a D&D board, guys, not the results of a federal election.
      • Do NOT dispute to tear down another build. That's just plain not cool. If you entered the contest, it's not on you to judge the other builds.
      • DO dispute if the judge is being blatantly biased by giving you a substantially different ruling on a build element compared to another chef who used the same build element in nearly the same way. (Note that position in a build may affect if you're using that element in "nearly the same way" or not.) Please reserve this for the truly blatant examples. I mean it. Remember, it's the contestant's responsibility to make their best argument in the original write-up.
      • DO dispute if the judge is actively going against the contest rules. Note that there are relatively few ways in which a judge can go against contest rules (we intentionally give very wide discretion to our judges), but examples include truly breaking One Mistake One Penalty, penalizing just because of number of sources of (legal) material, and so on.
      • DO dispute if the judge is clearly ignoring unambiguous RAW. Note that this is for unambiguous RAW; if the RAW is shady and you're making an argument that isn't completely clear and that it wouldn't be strange for a GM to frown on, the judge has every right to frown on it as well. (You generally know when you're indulging in shady RAW. Be mature about this.) But if the judge is saying you didn't hit a prereq that you clearly did hit (and included in your write-up!), saying you can't do something that the plain text of the ability says you can do, or anything like that, by all means, call 'em out.
      • Do NOT dispute if the judge doesn't agree with your interpretation of ambiguous RAW. Yes, this is a retread of the previous bullet point; this is that important. If you're relying on ambiguous RAW, it's on you to lay out clearly why it should work the way you want it to work. Again, be mature and act in good faith: you really know when you're pushing things like this. If they don't like it, they don't like it. Move on.


      Disputing is a privilege, not a right. In the Chair's sole discretion, disputes that do not meet these guidelines and/or that do not seem to be offered in good faith may be suppressed. The Chair reserves the right to choose to post all, some, or none of a dispute if appropriate.

    • Other bits and bobs: If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers.



    This round's secret ingredient:
    The FIGHTER, from the Player's Handbook and the SRD!

    Allez Optimizer!






    The Builds:
    Coming soon!


    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Here's a few gentle recommendations that are intended to improve scores and make things easier for the judges. As always, THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS POST ARE NOT RULES. Judges and contestants are free to honor them or ignore them; my intent here is only to help, and NONE of what I'm saying here is required. (That said, did you see the new dispute guidelines? Those ARE rules, so please go read them. And I'm even going to be better about enforcing them this time.)

    Recommendations:
    • Double-check ALL of your prereqs. Every. Single. One. Feats, PrCs, whatever. You might even go so far as to spell out when you meet each one, but again, that's not a requirement. But one of the single biggest causes of point loss is failure to meet prereqs.
    • Tell the judges what's cool about your build! You spent hours or days on this (y'know, probably) and know it inside and out, but the judges are getting a whole bunch of these dishes all at once and don't know the build history of each one. You're significantly more likely to score well if you spell out exactly what makes you awesome than if you try to just let it stand on its own.
    • Make it easy to read! Skill tables are awful, though they're an incredibly necessary evil. Full Monster Manual-style statblocks are occasionally useful but are also insanely dense if not formatted well. Judges are very likely to miss something if you aren't careful with how you present your info. Remember that judging takes a lot of time, energy, and focus, so don't rely on the judge being willing/able to decode something in order to see what makes you interesting!
    • Be memorable. Remember that we're all using the same ingredient here. What makes you different?


    Oh, and another thing: CHECK TO MAKE SURE THAT THING YOU'RE TAKING IS A FIGHTER BONUS FEAT. You're sure? You're sure? Check it again. There's a lot of feats that you'd think are FBFs that aren't FBFs. I don't want anyone losing points because of that!

    Anyway! As always, your goal is to stand out from the crowd. Fighter is hard to use in E6 because their main advantage (lots of feats) is duplicated by literally every other class! But, on the other hand, in E6 the fighter still doesn't get completely scaled out of relevance just because of the existence of magic. Sure, more magic is generally better than less magic, but it's way less of a problem in E6 than in E20, so here's your chance to shine as a big burly muggle!

    On a personal note, I picked fighter this time because there's a parallel to my personal life that makes me giggle. See, the due date is on my graduation date from grad school; I'll FINALLY be done with my stupid MBA. Just like a fighter, right? Well, kinda.

    • It's a ridiculously general degree that doesn't specialize in anything to differentiate itself. Sounds familiar.
    • I feel like I brute-forced my way through with entirely cross-class ranks. Sounds familiar.
    • Fighters make a lot of basic attacks with nothing special about them. In 4e, "melee basic attack" is usually abbreviated as "MBA." Snicker.
    • Wasn't there a gag in OotS that Roy has an MBA? Whatever, it's canon in my head at least.


    So there ya have it! Get burly! Get fightin'! Make me proud like you always do!
    Last edited by Zaq; 2020-04-26 at 08:29 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently cooking for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Hi everybody!

    Remember me? I’m that idiot who said he was going to post a build, didn’t, said he was going to judge, didn’t, and then mysteriously disappeared. Also probably the only independent new 3.5 player since the dawn of 5th Edition.

    I’m gonna try and post a build this time, sorry for my blundering n00b garbage during my first competition. Maybe I’ll even judge otherwise, though only if I get all of it down before any promises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    As for the blade, I believe uranium is the traditional material we are supposed to reply with.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Huh, I've actually got two ideas for this one right out the gate. Time will tell whether I'll be able to make, well, time for them with finals coming up... and my procrastination of a couple things coming home to roost...
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
    Realism, the natural predator of D&D mechanics.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Oh, man. I'm going to try and come up with something, but...yikes.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Blackhawk748's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Oooh Fighter... but I can't use Dragon Mag...

    Bugger
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
    "Mr. Aochev, tear down this wall!" Ro'n Ad-Ri'Gan, Bard
    Tiefling Sorcerer by Linkele
    Spoiler: Homebrew stuff
    Show
    My Spell, My Weapon, Im a God

    My Post Apocalyptic Alternate Timeline setting: Amerhikan Wasteland


    My Historical Stuff channel

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Oooh Fighter... but I can't use Dragon Mag...

    Bugger
    I assume we’re both thinking of the same thing.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Troll-blooded pugilist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    As for the blade, I believe uranium is the traditional material we are supposed to reply with.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Luccan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    A deceptively simple SI. This will be interesting
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

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    E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing

    E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Yikes and this would be a simple? It will be a problem to put in the spotlight the class abilities of this SI
    Finally my computer is without any problem!
    Spoiler: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition Medals
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    Silver medal as Xin in Round XVII
    Gold Medal as Smit in Round XVIII
    Silver Medal as Hit Me In Round XIX
    Gold Medal as The Exiled in Round XIX
    Silver Medal as Elec Tri in Round XX
    Gold Medal as Tawamios in round XXI

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrock Bait View Post
    I assume we’re both thinking of the same thing.

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    Troll-blooded pugilist.
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    Nope, I was thinking something with Kensai Fighter
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    I don't know what are you thinking but i'm discovering many things about the figther and some obscure feats that i never used...i already have two ideas and half but the half one could not work
    Finally my computer is without any problem!
    Spoiler: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition Medals
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    Silver medal as Xin in Round XVII
    Gold Medal as Smit in Round XVIII
    Silver Medal as Hit Me In Round XIX
    Gold Medal as The Exiled in Round XIX
    Silver Medal as Elec Tri in Round XX
    Gold Medal as Tawamios in round XXI

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    I would like to try to get a build in, but will need to come up with an idea that hasn't been beaten to death through normal optimization paths, usually with only two fighter levels. We Shall See!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by RaiKirah View Post
    I would like to try to get a build in, but will need to come up with an idea that hasn't been beaten to death through normal optimization paths, usually with only two fighter levels. We Shall See!
    That’s exactly what’s so difficult, isn’t it? You have to do something new and innovative with the class that only exists to dispense something that’s been studied since Dictum Mortuum began drafting his first handbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    As for the blade, I believe uranium is the traditional material we are supposed to reply with.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    I actually found something (somewhat) cool, and started to get excited...only to find WotC's complete lack of editing has rendered it almost useless.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Sorry, this is my first time, and i have some minor questions:

    - If you take all levels in Fighter, did you get some benefit like being able to pick 8th level fighter feats? or are those the capstone feats that are not allowed?
    - Are you allowed to take alternate class features?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by MicHag View Post
    Sorry, this is my first time, and i have some minor questions:

    - If you take all levels in Fighter, did you get some benefit like being able to pick 8th level fighter feats? or are those the capstone feats that are not allowed?
    First of all, welcome to the competition. It's always nice to see new people. I'm not Zaq, but I'm fairly certain I know the answer to these. You do not get that benefit, as those are the aforementioned capstone feats

    Quote Originally Posted by MicHag View Post
    - Are you allowed to take alternate class features?
    If you qualify for those features and the ACF's are in allowed sources then yes, you are allowed to take them.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Thanks!
    I just finished my build, but i am not sure if i did the parsing right, if i watch the preview none of my styling is correct (just plain text). Does this mean i am doing it all wrong?
    What i did was copy a post from someone else and use their HTML-codes...
    If i add the HTML-code i created to this webpage (manually, through F12) it shows exactly how i wanted it.

    Also i cannot find in the rules where to send the build.
    Last edited by MicHag; 2020-04-29 at 07:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by MicHag View Post
    Thanks!
    I just finished my build, but i am not sure if i did the parsing right, if i watch the preview none of my styling is correct (just plain text). Does this mean i am doing it all wrong?
    What i did was copy a post from someone else and use their HTML-codes...

    Also i cannot find in the rules where to send the build.
    Code for the table:
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    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr][/table]


    Just fill in the right spots.
    Last edited by MinimanMidget; 2020-04-29 at 07:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Yes, i have that.
    But i have a whole <DIV> and <TABLE> and <SPAN> structure, that simply does not show correctly if i watch the preview. But like i said, i just tested the parsing by adding the HTML to this page manually, and then it's fine. I guess it will work out, do i send it to Zaq? if it's wrong i can always correct it afterwards i guess.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Yes you have to sendo to Zaq , and to see the post you can try to copy here, and then use preview post, without posting it, I do that each time when I can the only thing if you are using links in that case you could have a problem with the links but because Zaq will post it will be not a problem
    Finally my computer is without any problem!
    Spoiler: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition Medals
    Show
    Silver medal as Xin in Round XVII
    Gold Medal as Smit in Round XVIII
    Silver Medal as Hit Me In Round XIX
    Gold Medal as The Exiled in Round XIX
    Silver Medal as Elec Tri in Round XX
    Gold Medal as Tawamios in round XXI

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Ive never participated in one of these and have a fairly basic question. fighter is the secret ingredient so are we supposed to build all 6 levels as fighter or 5 fighter and prestige class. If no, how much fighter must be used?
    Thanks to Iruka for my Cranky Old Kobold avatar.Now get off my lawn.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by crankykobold View Post
    Ive never participated in one of these and have a fairly basic question. fighter is the secret ingredient so are we supposed to build all 6 levels as fighter or 5 fighter and prestige class. If no, how much fighter must be used?
    Use as much fighter as you need. I haven't seen a judge penalize a straight build into a non paragon prestige class. But if you use less than the allotment, the judge is likely to knock your build for points in either the elegance or use of si categories. My rule of thumb as a contestant is to use 4 levels minimum

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    From the initial post is that the only hard rule about that question is that you need to take at least one level, but from what i have seen in the judgments more level you take , better is , but for example in the paladin one a partecipant took a feat to combine wizard and was not penalized. The problem with figther is that I think no one will do the normal 2 level dip in this case , I'm trying to make a build with 6 levels of fighter, maybe i'm mad but is funny
    Finally my computer is without any problem!
    Spoiler: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition Medals
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    Silver medal as Xin in Round XVII
    Gold Medal as Smit in Round XVIII
    Silver Medal as Hit Me In Round XIX
    Gold Medal as The Exiled in Round XIX
    Silver Medal as Elec Tri in Round XX
    Gold Medal as Tawamios in round XXI

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by crankykobold View Post
    Ive never participated in one of these and have a fairly basic question. fighter is the secret ingredient so are we supposed to build all 6 levels as fighter or 5 fighter and prestige class. If no, how much fighter must be used?
    The absolute minimum to avoid disqualification is 1 level of the secret ingredient. Everything beyond that is up to the judges individual preference. 5 levels of fighter and a fitting prc is unlikely to be penalized though.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by crankykobold View Post
    Ive never participated in one of these and have a fairly basic question. fighter is the secret ingredient so are we supposed to build all 6 levels as fighter or 5 fighter and prestige class. If no, how much fighter must be used?
    Quote Originally Posted by Original Post
    ...which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level—where applicable—in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take as many levels as possible in said SI or that otherwise use it as heavily as possible.)
    And apparently post minimums don't include quoted material, so since I have to add to the length in order to post, I'm going to get a plug in for Junkyard Wars. ;) Come join us there, too! Links available in my sig. (Probably, though time may wear that truth away eventually.)

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    I’m not feeling any grand inspiration to enter this one in particular (though as with all of the iron chef contests I look forward to seeing what everyone comes up with), but congrats on the pending graduation and MBA, Zaq!
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    I like the thought of a 6 level fighter challenge. Will do at least 4 levels tho.
    Thanks to Iruka for my Cranky Old Kobold avatar.Now get off my lawn.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    got another question. Ive never actually played an e6 game. how do you handle wealth by level?
    Thanks to Iruka for my Cranky Old Kobold avatar.Now get off my lawn.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by crankykobold View Post
    got another question. Ive never actually played an e6 game. how do you handle wealth by level?
    WBL is usually completely ignored in these competitions. You generally present your character with nonmagical armor, and whatever weapon they need to function, and any other basic gear they might use. You're not forbidden from providing a magical gear list, but if your character needs a specific magic item to function, judges will generally penalize you for it.
    Last edited by DeTess; 2020-04-29 at 12:51 PM.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    WBL is usually completely ignored in these competitions. You generally present your character with nonmagical armor, and whatever weapon they need to function, and any other basic gear they might use. You're not forbidden from providing a magical gear list, but if your character needs a specific magic item to function, judges will generally penalize you for it.
    Of course, one can enhance their basic, working, effective build with magic items, yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    As for the blade, I believe uranium is the traditional material we are supposed to reply with.

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