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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Default Orthos

    Knock me over with a feather! Er, wait, not a feather, a big slab o' wood. Got it. Carry on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orthos
    I made a very last minute decision to participate, so here's my barebones build:

    Spoiler: Build
    Show
    Orthos
    Azurin Fighter 6

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats
    1st Fighter 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Intimidate 4, Jump 4, Climb 4 JotunbrudHuman, Combat ExpertiseB, Improved Trip
    2nd Fighter 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Intimidate 5, Jump 5, Climb 3, Skill Trick: Extreme Leap Improved Shield BashB
    3rd Fighter 3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Intimidate 6, Jump 6, Climb 4 Cobalt Expertise
    4th Fighter 4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Intimidate 7, Jump 7, Climb 5 Shield ChargeB
    5th Fighter 5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Intimidate 8, Jump 7, Climb 5, Skill Trick: Never Outnumbered -
    6th Fighter 6B +6 +5 +2 +2 Intimidate 9, Jump 9, Climb 5 Shield Slam, Riposte

    Epic Feats: 1. Shield Specialization (Heavy), 2. Agile Shield Fighter, 3. Shape Soulmeld (Spellward Shirt), 4. Bonus Essentia, 5. Allied Defense, 6. Dodge, 7. Mobility, 8. Elusive Target, 9. Shield Ward, 10. Improved Disarm


    Spoiler: Writeup
    Show
    Hold a big shield, hit people with it, protect your allies. All for profit.

    This is a build centered around Combat Expertise and to an extent the combination of Improved Trip with Shield Charge allowing you to apply devastating crowd control when you succesfully charge. The idea is that on a charge, you Bash, dealing damage and Trip your opponent, gaining an additional attack from Improved Trip which you can use to either attack again, or attempt a disarm. Since you're always using Combat Expertise you don't care too much about the attack of opportunity (Your AC should be in the mid-20s with Combat Expertise combined with Cobalt Expertise for the bonuses to both AC and trip and disarm attempts.

    Later on, we also grab Shield Slam, which gives us a chance too daze our opponent on the charge. And Riposte, which allows us to bait our opponents into attacking us, hopefully missing and granting an additional attack, something that can happen on our own turn as well, if we intentionally provoke, say with a disarm attempt against a prone opponent.

    Going into the epic feats, initially we grab Agile Shield Fighter in order to increase full attack damage output, then we can follow up with a number of different approaches:

    Shape Soulmeld (Spellward Shirt) + Bonus Essentia gives us SR 18 which in Epic 6 is not bad at all and should grant some much-needed magical defense.

    Allied Defense allows us to share the Combat Expertise goodness with allies if we have more melee people in our party.

    Dodge, Mobility and Elusive Target both negate Power Attack and grant the cause overreach maneuver, which should be very useful in our high-defense build.

    Finally, Shield Ward increases our maneuver defenses and touch AC while Improved Disarm can keep our Disarming competent against tougher opponents.


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show
    Player's Handbook: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Disarm, Improved Shield Bash
    Magic of Incarnum: Azurin, Cobalt Expertise, Shape Soulmeld, Bonus Essentia
    Complete Warrior: Shield Charge, Shield Slam, Elusive Target
    Player's Handbook 2: Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Agile Shield Fighter
    Dragon Compendium: Riposte
    Shining South: Allied Defense
    Races of Faerun: Jotunbrud

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Titan in the Playground
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    Feb 2009
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    Default Pauli T'Chan

    Look, I know a guy who knows a guy, okay? Relax. It'll get done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauli T'Chan
    Pauli T'Chan

    Look kid, I'm a fighter. But let's talk about what this is really about.

    Power.

    And I might be able to hit you till you die. That's one kind of power.

    But there's another kind of power. The kind that protect everyone from the guy who can hit you till you die. And that's what I want. That's what we all need.

    And you don't get that from learning how to kill everyone by yourself. You get that by loving people enough that they become powerful enough to hit their threats until they die.

    And then you aim them at the forces of evil in the most efficient and warriorlike way possible.

    You create something with that amount of power. You create safety. You create strength.

    Eradicating real threats with flawed resources. That's about as fighter-y as you can get. And I can make not just one fighter, but an entire army, fight anything.

    NG Human Noble 1/fighter 5

    Str 13
    Con 10
    Dex 14
    Int 14
    Wis 8
    Cha 17

    Add +1 to charisma at level 4.

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Noble +0 +0 +2 +2 (4+int+1)×4 +2: diplomacy 4, perform (weapon drill) 1, perform (acting) 4, gather information 4, UMD 4, k. (Local) 4, intimidate 4, bluff 3, martial lore 1 Apprentice (Entertainer), Favored (Performers Guild) Favor +1, bonus class skill
    2nd Skilled city dweller Fighter +1 +2 +2 +2 5: gather information 5, diplomacy 5, UMD 5, ride 1 Combat expertise weapon armor and shield proficiencies, bonus feat, trade handle animal for gather information
    3rd Fighter +2 +3 +2 +2 Gather info 6, diplomacy 6, umd 6, ride 2 Quickdraw, favored in house (eberron campaign setting) bonus feat
    4th fighter +3 +3 +3 +3 Gather info 7, diplomacy 7, umd 7, K. Local 4.5
    5th Fighter +4 +4 +3 +3 Gather info 8, diplomacy 8, umd 8, K. Local 5 weapon focus, Mentor (dmg2) bonus feat
    6th Fighter +5 +4 +3 + gather info 9, diplomacy 10, and 9, ride 3 Favored



    Level 1: Noble (Dragonlance campaign setting p.50)
    Feats: Apprentice (entertainer)(DMG2 p.176), favored (performers guild)(cityscape p.61)

    Look, at level 1, you gotta look big picture. If you want to win, you need a force multiplier. And yeah, you could be a barbarian with power attack, or you could rent one and still get to do what you want with the rest of your time, like fiddle with magic contraptions.

    I can get a quest going. I can call in a favor, I can get my mentor to help. I can scrounge for information. I got friends in the entertainment guild. I can get us fed. And if necessary, I got back up. We're destined for greatness.

    Level 2 fighter
    Feats; Weapon expertise

    Playboy dilletente no more, I learned how to use every single weapon, armor, and shield there is. So yeah, I can fight. I have COMBAT EXPERTISE.

    I perform weapon drills to train the populace and to attract allies, on a single unitary skill rank of 1 in weapon drill performance. Thanks to my fantastic prowess and feats acquired by being a real fighter, I'll be able to use the thin fighter skill set to expand my network of control over the course of this places future. And I have friends in high places in addition to oodles of other friends willing to help me do it.


    Level 3 Fighter
    Feats: Quick draw, favored in house(eberron campaign setting)

    I have more than a hand full of contacts, a mentor, a rotating cast of admirers and three favors from government per week. I can perform weapon drills to gather information, 4 hours tops, to find what I need to know. And with my quickdraw routine, on top of being endowed with combat expertise, I'm projecting an image of strength. Hell, I bet I can use my fighter skills in a weapon drill to act as a diplomatic mission. One that people will follow. My weapon drills are at 1d20 + 10 (+4 weapon feats +3 cha +1 (Bab) +2 comp).

    I got my genealogy back, well it looks like I got even more family that loves me! I wonder if the bonus on my favor roll for being a noble works on favors from being favored in house. Or vice versa.

    Level 4 Fighter
    +1 charisma

    Weapon drills at 1d20 + 12.

    Level 5 Fighter
    Feat: weapon focus, mentor(DMG2 p.176)

    Weapon drills at 1d20 +14. At this level, we graduate our apprenticeship and now get apprentices! Plus we keep all of the benefits of the apprenticeship. The dm must prep 3-6 elite array candidates to choose from. They must have the apprentice feat, but the mentor gets to choose the rest of the options. Every time we level up, the apprentice levels up. At epic feat 4, the apprentice becomes a cohort who may have an apprentice of their own.

    Level 6 Fighter
    Feat: Favored

    Choose an organization to be favored by that has a cool contact and diplomacy as an associated skill (adventurer, government). Primary contact doubles his frequency of help.

    Epic feats
    1: Primary contact
    2: Extra contacts (Cityscape p.61)
    3: Extra contacts
    4: Extra contacts
    5: Extra contacts
    6: Extra contacts
    7: Extra contacts
    8: Extra contacts
    9: Extra contacts
    10: Extra contacts


    Quote Originally Posted by Cityscape p.57
    In an urban campaign, the DM might allow the PCs to begin with one contact each at character creation, unless the concept of the campaign indicates otherwise. Beyond these potential starting contacts, however, a PC wishing to gain a contact must first find and select an NPC. If this individual’s attitude toward the character is worse than helpful, the PC must adjust his attitude to helpful either with a successful Diplomacy check, or through roleplaying various favors done for the NPC. Once the NPC’s attitude is helpful, the player need only declare that he wishes to continue his character’s relationship with the NPC as a contact. In most campaigns, a PC can have a number of contacts equal to her Charisma bonus (minimum 1). In particularly social or political campaigns, the DM might consider increasing this number by up to three. Additionally, a character who joins a guild, organization, or priesthood, or who gains the patronage of a noble house, gains one extra contact that does not count against his Charisma-based maximum.
    Quote Originally Posted by cityscape p.76
    Upper-class PCs might belong to a local noble or merchant house, either through blood or marriage. In such cases, consider allowing them an extra contact before the start of play. Such a contact must be a member of the house to which the character belongs.
    This contact shall be: Sir Benedict de Langahas (fighter 7). Sir Benedict will provide a small mercenary company consisting of six warriors, each of one-half the PCs’ average level (maximum 6th), to aid the group in one specific battle. Once per year. (Cityscape p.78)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cityscape p.85
    Every guild member gains a contact specific to his or her guild.
    Gerdi Tindertwig (halfling bard 3/expert 3). Gerdi will provide performers and entertainment for a special occasion. Once per year. (Cityscape p.90)

    Quote Originally Posted by DMG2 p.176
    Apprentices are expected to learn and grow, and mentors are loath to step in and provide physical support or financial aid, or to pull strings for an apprentice. Convincing the mentor to aid in this way requires a successful level check (d20 + character level), the DC of which is set by the DM and varies from 10 for simple favors to as high as 25 for highly dangerous, expensive, or illegal favors. A successful check means the mentor helps in some way (lends a magic item, accompanies the character on a short mission, pulls strings to get an appointment with the mayor, and so on) but demands double the normal tithe the next time the character gains a level. Once the character asks for aid, no further requests for aid will be honored until she gains at least one experience level.
    The mentor starts at 5th level, modified by level 1 charisma bonus (8th) and adds 1 per aspect of shared alignment (10th) and adds 1 if two Guild skills are maxed out at level 1 (11th). A good aligned bard or initiator (ideally one with scribe martial script!) Makes the most sense for a weapon drill entertainer. We'll get a martial script scriber as an apprentice if we don't get one as a mentor. A bard is helpful too (free access to bardic lore checks, suggestion performances, etc)

    Because our mentor is an entertainer we can also attract an admirer. As per the description in the feat. We can use our guild contact girdi to help place us close to persons of power to try to get them as admirers. But for every Brock Samson who likes your weapon drills there is a chance of instead getting a Grandma. So roll with the punches here. Grandma's have soft power and relatives who might become future contacts. Treat everyone right and demand consent before placing them in danger.

    So those are the free contacts and contact type persons available at level 1. Wait, we still get one to start with that is pulled from our charisma modifier pool. Pick any from the samples, provided below, they're almost all great. And we can develop 2 more as the adventures continue, as well as a fourth when our charisma increases and then, with pur apprentices, admirers, mentors, and 36 other contacts, whom I can trade favors between. Between that friend network and 3 favors a week, it's easy to make optimal other contacts using the tables below as a guide. More examples are in the guild descriptions in cityscape. (1/year are best, but some abilities will be useful depending on campaign)








    I may not be the best fighter to win the battle, but I am the best one to get the battle won.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Titan in the Playground
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    Feb 2009
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    Default Severas

    No, you're humming One Winged Angel. Estuans interius / Ira vehementi / Estuans interius / Ira vehementi / Se-ve-ras!

    Quote Originally Posted by Severas
    Severas, Talon of the Cult of the Dragon
    Human (Waterdeep) LE Fighter 6

    Spoiler: Introduction
    Show
    A hooded figure stepped out of the mouth of the alley - clearly her route had been anticipated, which could mean only one of two possibilities. Hoping for the first, she shaped the Harpers' recognition-sign with her hands.
    He shook his head and said "Guess again."
    The second, then. Sweet Mystra, grant her time... Long training held her voice steady as she responded, "Ah. I hope the Cult of the Dragon pays you what you're worth, assassin." It was an offer if he cared to take it, but she very much doubted he would; she was already freeing her rapier from its sheath.
    Two strangely-curved blades appeared almost instantly in his hands, and he bowed slightly. "If I may correct a misconception, I am no assassin. We are meeting openly, and Selune casts few shadows tonight; I would have called to you if you had not noticed me. Of course I will kill you, but I want to see how you defend yourself."
    With her blade readied for the onslaught of the twin blades, her hidden hand shaped the Weave to imbue her with haste. Still reaching for those few moments more she needed, she asked the final question of a career spent searching for answers. "I do appreciate the courtesy, but...why?"
    For the first time, his voice lifted beyond distant formality, and into a need she knew all too well. "To learn."


    Spoiler: Ability Scores
    Show
    Ability Score Modifiers Final Score
    Strength 16 - 16 (+3)
    Dexterity 16 +1 (Level 4) 17 (+3)
    Constitution 14 - 14 (+2)
    Intelligence 14 - 14 (+2)
    Wisdom 9 - 9 (-1)
    Charisma 8 - 8 (-1)


    Spoiler: Build
    Show
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Fighter 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Knowledge (arcana) +2, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (local) +4, Knowledge (nature) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Knowledge (the planes) +2 Exotic Weapon Proficiency (eagle's claw), Education (arcana, the planes) Two-Weapon Fighting
    2nd Fighter 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Collector of Stories, Knowledge (arcana) +3, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (local) +5, Knowledge (nature) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Knowledge (the planes) +3 - Combat Expertise
    3rd Fighter 3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Knowledge (arcana) +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (local) +5, Knowledge (nature) +5, Knowledge (religion) +5, Knowledge (the planes) +4 Eagle's fury -
    4th Fighter 4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Knowledge (arcana) +5, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Knowledge (the planes) +4 - Weapon Focus (eagle's claw)
    5th Fighter 5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Knowledge (arcana) +5, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (local) +7, Knowledge (nature) +7, Knowledge (religion) +7, Knowledge (the planes) +5 - -
    6th Fighter 6 +6 +5 +2 +2 Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (local) +8, Knowledge (nature) +7, Knowledge (religion) +8, Knowledge (the planes) +6 Knowledge Devotion Improved Two-Weapon Fighting

    E6 Feats:
    1. Deadly Defense
    2. Skewer Foe
    3. Weapon Specialization (eagle's claw)
    4. Improved Critical (eagle's claw)
    5. Reckless Offense
    6. Combat Reflexes
    7. Double Hit
    8. Karmic Strike
    9. Riposte
    10. Two-Weapon Pounce


    Spoiler: Level by Level Breakdown
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    Spoiler: Level 1
    Show
    In general, the order of feats for Severas is pretty flexible (except for Education), but I always try to establish build identity as early as possible. Severas's concept can essentially be boiled down to 3 facets: He's a specialist with the eagle's claw weapon, he's a dual wielder, and he's a seriously smart fighter. So he starts with a feat for each of those. Education into Knowledge Devotion is a classic, but it gives him something to do with his skill points and a niche that's occasionally useful outside of combat.

    Spoiler: Level 2
    Show
    Combat Expertise is a defining characteristic of the build. Not as a pre-req feat, but in and of itself - Severas will almost invariably be trading -2 to hit for +2 AC, for reasons that will become obvious later. Collector of Stories is here for the same reason it's in every Knowledge Devotion build; that bonus is just too big to ignore, especially considering how easy it is to get.

    Spoiler: Level 3
    Show
    Eagle's Fury is the big reason to specialise in the eagle's claw, essentially giving Flurry of Blows without losing BAB.

    Spoiler: Level 4
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    Ah, Weapon Focus. It's often derided, but within E6, and on a build that's making a lot of attacks, the bonus is actually reasonably significant. And Severas is going to need every bit of to-hit bonus he can get.

    Spoiler: Level 5
    Show
    This one's pretty much a dead level, unfortunately. Knowledge skills keep going up, and that's really all there is to it.

    Spoiler: Level 6
    Show
    At last, Knowledge Devotion. Severas should always get +2-4 on attack and damage from this, unless the check is Knowledge (nature) and he rolls a 1. (Just one skill point short...gah.) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting is yet another attack, bringing him to 5 attacks on a full attack.

    Spoiler: Deadly Defense
    Show
    This is the main reason why Severas uses Combat Expertise: +1d6 on all those attacks is pretty nice.

    Spoiler: Skewer Foe
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    Skewer Foe is perfect for a character making a bunch of attacks in a round, giving +1d6 on every hit after the first.

    Spoiler: Weapon Specialization
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    Just like Weapon Focus, this bonus is a lot more relevant in E6 and when making lots of attacks every round.

    Spoiler: Improved Critical
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    The eagle's claw has a nice 18-20 crit range, so this brings us to 15-20, and with 5 attacks per round that's going to pay off pretty often.

    Spoiler: Reckless Offense
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    This isn't always going to be a good trade, but Severas almost always trades -2 to hit for +2 to AC. This lets him cancel out that to-hit penalty while still benefiting from Deadly Defense.

    Spoiler: Combat Reflexes
    Show
    Severas likes making lots of attacks per round, and all those bonuses apply to attacks of opportunity, too.

    Spoiler: Double Hit
    Show
    And the same reasoning applies here. If your enemies are dumb enough, that's up to 6 attacks per round from attacks of opportunity.

    Spoiler: Karmic Strike
    Show
    How about, instead of relying on enemies being dumb, we just hit them (twice) whenever they hit us?

    Spoiler: Riposte
    Show
    One more feat that only works when using Combat Expertise. Karmic Strike only triggers an AoO if the enemy actually hits you, whereas Riposte triggers one when they attack you and miss. With both of them, it's like having Robilar's Gambit, except the enemies don't get bonuses to hit you.

    Spoiler: Two-Weapon Pounce
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    Severas really wants to be making full attacks, but when he has to move in order to hit an enemy, this is the next best thing.



    Spoiler: Stats
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    HP: 5d10+22 (49.5 hp)
    AC: 10 + 4 (chain shirt) + 3 (Dex) + 2 (Combat Expertise) = 19 (15 if using Reckless Offense), touch 15, flat-footed 14
    Full attack: 6 (BAB) + 3 (Str) + 1 (Weapon Focus) + 2 (Knowledge Devotion) - 2 (Two-Weapon Fighting) - 2 (Combat Expertise) - 2 (Eagle's Fury) = +6/+6/+6/+1/+1, up to +10/+10/+10/+5/+5 with Reckless Offense and a good Knowledge Devotion roll. The first attack that hits in a round does 1d6 (Eagle's claw) + 3 (Str) + 2 (Weapon Specialization) + 2 (Knowledge Devotion) + 1d6 (Deadly Defense) = 2d6 + 8 (or 2d6 + 10 with a good Knowledge Devotion roll), subsequent attacks deal 3d6 + 8 (Skewer Foe).
    Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +1


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show
    • Education: Player's Guide to Faerun
    • Eagle's claw, Eagle's Fury: Sandstorm
    • Collector of Stories, Deadly Defense: Complete Scoundrel
    • Knowledge Devotion: Complete Champion
    • Skewer Foe: Champions of Ruin
    • Double Hit: Miniatures Handbook
    • Karmic Strike: Complete Warrior
    • Riposte: Dragon Compendium
    • Two-Weapon Pounce: PHB II
    • Everything else: SRD content

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Staffilius

    ~Don't shoot me, I'm dancin' / don't shoot me, I'm dancin' / can't shoot me when I'm dancin' / can't stop the top!~

    No, I will never apologize for dragging The Megas into something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Staffilius
    CG Staffilius Kalashtar darksong knight fighter 6
    Spoiler: Background
    Show
    I don’t remember so much of my birthplace, I was kidnapped by these strange elves with black skin as a slave in their caves. Then one day some other elves with the strange skin saved me from the slavery they were elf with dark skin good, of a deity they called Eilistraee , so I helped them to gain my freedom. When we arrived in surface they said I was a kalashtar, and that among them there were someone who used a style similar to the one of some kalashtar, a form of dancing. I tried to dance and it was funny but I wanted to help them against my ex slayer, so I mixed the way of a fighter with the way of a dancer! I’m a fighter that do fighting thing dancing and using the weak quarterstaff!
    *Some months later *
    Two knigths of Eilistrae are talking ”Damn he beat me again!” .
    ”Of which are you talking?” “Of Staffilius, I can’t hit him , and if I miss he attacks me ”
    ”Yeah I know and if you hit him he attacks again”
    ” I would like to know how he trained for a so particular style… his weapon is not good , we are fighter we use swords axes and something similar, not a quarterstaff!”
    ”It seems that he trained in the dance to use that style… is a dancing fighter! Even if dancing is not in our skills generally”

    Spoiler: Stats
    Show

    Stat [Point buy
    Strength 14 6
    Dexterity 16 10
    Constitution 14 6
    Intelligence 14 6
    Wisdom 12 4
    Charisma 8 0
    4th level point to dexterity

    Spoiler: Build
    Show

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Drow Figther +1 +2 +0 +0 Perform (dance) 2, Knowledge (religion ) 1, Knowledge (the planes) 1, Spot 2, Listen 2, Climb 4 Guerrila scout, Weapon finesse Bonus feat , hit and run tactics
    2nd Darsksong knight figther +2 +3 +0 +0 Perform dance 5, Knowledge religion 1, Knowledge the planes 1, Spot 2, Listen 2, Climb 5 Combat Expertise Bonus feat, dancing feint
    3rd Fighter +3 +3 +1 +1 Perfom dance 6 , Knowledge religion 1, Knowledge the planes 1, Spot 3, Listen 2, Climb 6 Path of Shadow
    4th Fighter +4 +4 +1 +1 Perform dance 6, Knowledge religion 1, Knowledge the planes 2, Spot 3 Listen 3, Climb 7 Dodge Bonus feat
    5th Figther +5 +4 +1 +1 Perform dance 6, Knowledge religion 1, Knowledge the planes 2, Spot 4, Listen 3, Climb 8 , Trick learned (Corner perch)
    6th Darksong Knigth figther +6 +5 +2 +2 Perform dance 8, Knowledge religion 1, Knowledge the planes 1, Listen 4 ,Spot 4, Climb 9 Dancing with shadows Resolute ACF, Favored enemy (yochols)
    Cross class skill for this level (only when I put ranks in that skill it will be bold)
    Spoiler: Epic feats
    Show

    1° Weapon focus (quarterstaff)
    2°Two weapon fighting
    3° Quick staff
    4° Combat reflexes
    5° Riposte
    6° Karmic strike
    7° Expert tactician
    8° Sense weakness
    9° Improved two weapon fighting
    10° Double hit

    Spoiler: Tactics
    Show
    Spoiler: Level 1
    Show
    We don’t have so much of strength so the best way to do damage at this level is using hit and run tactics, it will mainly work when we start of initiative or using a greatsword two handed , because we can do this and hoping to strike . The first feat is quite useful guerrilla scout, because it permits us to put ranks in spot and listen as if they were class skills, excepts that the limit remains (3+ level)/2 as a cross class skill. It boost initiative and is good because it has a synergy with hit and run tactics. The second feat is useful in the next level because we will use a quarterstaff and we have more dexterity than strength. The skills are a bit strange but we need for the future especially perform dance

    Spoiler: Level 2,3
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    In these level we enter in the darksong knight order , and while perform dance is a class skill we put many ranks as we can, because is useful for us. The first feat that we take that require perform dance is path of shadow, but let’s talk about the other feat instead of a feat tax. Combat expertise is essential for this build, and for now it give us a boost to our AC (remember we doesn’t have heavy armor so with this we can still have a good AC) We are more a meat shield than other for now in the party using our constitution and our 3d10 of hitpoints is not bad

    Spoiler: Level 6
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    Until this level we doesn’t gain anything extraordinary , because dodge is useful but is another feat tax , and corner perch is taken because we could use this when we had to climb or when there are buildings somewhat common in d&d, especially in cities or even in naturals caves We gain even a favored enemy , and for that we have knowledge planes, because we should know something about yochols to fight them, but the most important thing about this substitution level is… Having again perform dance as a class skill! This permit us to take a feat that is quite useful dancing with shadows that has three functions . First if we use combat expertise we gain a bonus to the will saves that is not bad considering our low saves , second if we used combat expertise one time we gain a bonus to attack roll that permit us to attack in a normal way without any penalties but still gaining the combat expertise bonus and third if we used combat expertise two consecutive times we gain a bonus to our AC that can be added to combat expertise and if we combine all of these we have a good bastion that gain combat expertise bonus two time, without even losing a point in the attack roll (after two turns where we used combat expertise) so this is quite good but is not all. This feat is so much useful that is why we have taken the darksong knight levels , as we could not have taken it without these figther levels (at least not combining it with a full BAB class). We are using even the resolute ACF that is useful because as figther we don’t have a so good will saves , so in this way we can gain a +3 bonus to will reducing our bonus to hit with flowing motion (from dancing with shadows) that gives us a boost of +2 to will saves in addition

    Spoiler: Epic 1 , 2 , 3
    Show
    Now we take the second essential feat to this build quick staff , and this is a good boost but let’s explain. The maneuver graceful lunge give us the dodge bonus that we gained with combat expertise at the attack roll . But quick staff boost the bonus of combat expertise of 2 if we are using a quarterstaff as we are doing so now if we use combat expertise with a penalty of -5 we gain a +7 to attack rolls of the turn , so is a neat +2 bonus to attack rolls, if we use the same penalty each time, but we could even do something lower as penalty in the first turn to strike in a better way to use hit and run tactics, or something lower in the second turn to strike in a better way with the full attack. The bonus of quick staff would negate the -2 of two weapon figthing if we are using each time the same penalty with combat expertise and even in this case is quite good.

    Spoiler: Epic 4, 5, 6
    Show
    As we are using so much dexterity is a good idea even to use the AOO so we take combat reflexes to make more AOO , but in which way we can do AOO against our enemies? There are two ways, the first is good because we have a high AC and is riposte, when they miss us we make an AOO against them so is good, but is only one AOO and for this we use karmic strike, because if they strike us (and luckily our good constitution will help us if they hit) we make another AOO so other damage but not only that because as the next feats we take

    Spoiler: Epic 7 , 8
    Show
    Expert tactician! This feat is so useful , for each hit we make during an attack of opportunity we give to our allies and to us a bonus against that enemy and is good, more damage and more bonus to attack roll, and is based on the hits not on the number of AOO(this is for later). But we still have a problem called damage reduction, as there are many types, and even if our equipment could help us the damage reduction from material for example is still a nasty thing with a low damage weapon as the quarterstaff, so we take Sense weakness, that should block the more common DR 5 as we can ignore these. We could even attack some objects and ignore 5 point of hardness but that is somewhat more rare than ignore a DR

    Spoiler: Epic 9, 10
    Show
    Now expert tactician give a boost based on the hit during an attack of opportunity , so to be more useful we should make more hits during an AoO and this is why we take double hit, because in this way we can do more attacks so more bonus to each one, but to take that feat we need a useful feat that will help us during the full attacks doing more attacks , improved two weapon fighting and we qualify for this feat with the boost of the 4th level to dexterity and because we have full bab

    Spoiler: Numbers on this build
    Show
    Hit points 10 + 5d10+12=49.5
    Initiative 3 +1 (guerrilla scout)+2 (hit and run tactics)=6
    Attack rolls (without combat expertise)= 6+3 (dexterity)+1(weapon focus)=10
    Attack roll mininum (generally 1° round of combat)= 10 – 5 (combat expertise)= 5
    Attack roll maximum (counting combat expertise -2 and graceful lunge + 7)=10 +5=15
    Ac without anything =10+5 (plate mail)+3 (dexterity)=18
    AC counting karmic strike , dodge, and combat expertise (-5) and karmic strike =18+1+7(5+2 from quick staff)-4 (karmic strike)=23
    Maximum AC with karmic strike (using lingering defense)=18+1 +7+7-4 =29 (the two 7s are from combat expertise with quick staff and lingering defense)
    These numbers are without counting expert tactician that would give even a bigger boost for each hit during an attack of opportunity( and I make two attacks for AoO because double hit)
    saves
    fortitude 7 (5 base+2 constitution)
    reflex 5 (2 base+3 dexterity)
    will (with resolute and flowing motion) 9 (2 base +2 wisdom +3 resolute ACF +2 flowing motion)

    Spoiler: Sources
    Show

    From SRD
    Figther, Combat expertise, dodge, two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, combat reflexes, Weapon finesse, weapon focus
    From Dragon magazine compendium
    Riposte
    From Champions of valor
    Darksong knight alternative levels
    From Races of Eberron
    Kalashtar, Path of Shadow, Dancing with shadows
    From Drow of the Underdark
    Hit and run tactics ACF
    From Complete Warrior
    Karmic strike, Quick staff
    From Heroes of battle
    Guerrilla scout
    From Complete adventurer
    Expert tactician
    From Miniatures handbook
    Double hit
    From complete scoundrel
    Corner Pench
    From Draconomicon
    Sense weakness
    From Complete Champion
    Resolute ACF

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    Default The Wanderer

    Master of weapons! Your weapons, specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wanderer
    The Wanderer
    Spoiler: Fluff
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    Do not fear the one relying on his fists because he has no other choice. Fear the one relying on their fists despite having every other choice in the world.
    -someone wise, probably

    Isumi hurried to the edge of her village, where a large crowd was already gathering. Word had come that the Wanderer had returned to the village. Her parents had told her stories o f the mysterious traveller's last visit, and how it had humbled their lord. Now the Lord had died, and his son had refused to learn his father's lesson. A she approached the crowd the people parted to let the young lord through, and Isumi made use of the temporary opening to make her way to the front of the crowd.

    "You will return what you stole, thief!" The young lord stood in front of the robed and veiled stranger, rage lit up in his eyes.

    "I have done no such thing." the Wanderer responded, their androgynous voice providing no more clues to their nature. "But if you desire to win back the blade of your father, I would be happy to face you in a duel."

    "A duel it is!" The young lord snarled as his hand settled on his katana. "But make no mistake. I see you for what you are, vagabond, and mercy will not slow me down like it did my father."

    The wanderer's head dipped in acknowledgement, and the figure took on a ready stance.

    "You're a fool if you think you can beat me bare-handed." The young lord was practically fuming. His opponent gave no further response, however. And so the young man struck.

    It was over in the blink of an eye. The young lord staggered backwards, a hand clenched to his cheek as a thin rivulet of blood appeared between his fingers. His katana now rested in the hands of the wanderer.

    The wanderer observed the stunned lord for a moment more, then turned around and walked over to a large bundle of weapons deposited at the edge of the circle of gawking villagers. They slid the katana into the bundle with practiced ease, and then slung it onto their shoulders. "I will return in five years. Maybe you'll give me a better fight then." They said without turning back, as they started walking away from the village.




    Spoiler: Table
    Show

    stub: LN silverbrow human fighter 6
    Ability scores
    str 16 (includes +1 at level 4)
    dex 15
    con 14
    int 14
    wis 10
    cha 10

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1 fighter 1 1 2 0 0 disguise 4, intimidate 4, climb 4, jump 4 improved unarmed strike, improved disarm, combat expertise bonus feat, acf: dragonscale husk
    2 fighter 2 2 3 0 0 disguise 5, intimidate 5, climb 5, jump 5 combat reflexes bonus feat
    3 fighter 3 3 3 1 1 disguise 6, intimidate 6, climb 6, jump 6 superior unarmed strike
    4 fighter 4 4 4 1 1 disguise 7, intimidate 7, climb 7, jump 7 deflect arrows bonus feat
    5 fighter 5 5 4 1 1 disguise 8, intimidate 8, climb 8, jump 8
    6 fighter 6 6 5 2 2 disguise 9, intimidate 9, climb 9, jump 9 grappling block, two-weapon fighting bonus feat

    Spoiler: epic feats
    Show

    snatch weapon
    snap kick
    improved trip
    dodge
    defensive throw
    evasive reflexes
    mobility
    elusive target
    weapon focus(unarmed strike)
    weapon specialization(unarmed strike)



    Spoiler: Build breakdown
    Show

    Level 1-2
    At level 1 the wanderer gets a lot of stuff. Improved unarmed strike and improved disarm are cornerstones of the build, while the dragonscale Husk gives the Wanderer a scaling suit of armor which also gives us some energy resistance against common energy types, which is always nice. Level 2 gains us combat reflexes, which will likewise see a lot of use later on in the build.

    Despite having improved uanrmed strike, it is wiser to sue an actual weapon in the early levels. There is no good reason to fight completely bare-handed yet, and the unarmed strike damage is pretty low.

    level 3-4
    At level 3 the wanderer gains superior unarmed strike, which increases the damage from their unarmed strikes to a more reasonable level. Deflect arrows is a situational defensive trick, but it's mostly here as a prerequisite for later feat.

    level 5-6
    At level 6 we gain one of the build's main party tricks. Grappling block allows the wanderer to instead disarm an opponent when they would have hit them. It can only be doen once per round, and counts against the available AoO, but we've got a couple to spare thanks to combat reflexes.

    Two-weapon fighting probably does not work with unarmed strikes (but it's nice if the DM rules that it does). It is mostly included because it makes the first epic feat work.

    epic feats
    snatch weapon
    This allows us to attack an opponent with their own weapon after we disarmed them, though it counts an off-hand attack, which is why we took two-weapon fighting. This synergizes really nice with grappling block as it means we get a riposte out of disarming our opponent.

    Snap kick
    A more accepted way to get the benefits of two-weapon fighting with unarmed strikes. If the DM rules you can two-weapon-fight with unarmed strikes, you can pick something else in this slot.

    improved trip
    Bonuses to tripping, and you get a free attack whenever you successfully trip someone. This doesn't do much right now, but will become more useful as it synergizes with several upcoming feats.

    Dodge
    Not very useful, but it's a prerequisite for nice stuff.

    Defensive throw
    If the target of our dodge feat attacks us and misses, we can use an AoO to try to trip them. If that succeeds, we can then make a free attack against them thanks to improved trip.

    evasive reflexes
    If someone tries to disengage from us, we can follow them, or otherwise reposition. As the dragonscale husk does reduce our speed somewhat this is a useful tool for keeping peopelw ithin reach.

    mobility
    like dodge, this isn't a great feat, but it does allows us to get the next one.

    Elusive target
    This is a really nice feat. It has three modes. The first mode prevents the target of your dodge feat from power-attacking you, which is situational, but nice.

    The second mode allows you to turn being flanked into an advantage by forcing an auto-miss on our dodged enemy that can hit another enemy. The miss should also trigger defensive throw.

    The last mode is great with improved trip. If your movement provokes an AoO and your foe misses, you can then trip them, and if that works you get the free attack from improved trip. Between your high AC from dragonscale husk and the extra AC against these AoO's from mobility, this could be a valid tactic for hitting a lot of weaker enemies in the same round, all for the cost of a move action. Even if the enemy wises up to your trick, it just means that you can move around the battlefield with impunity, which is nice too.

    Weapon focus and specialization
    these are just some extra numbers on the unarmed strike, but we've got the space and the fighter levels to take them, so why not?

    On the use of fighter
    So, this being an unarmed strike specialist focusing on battlefield control tricks, I'm certain people are wondering why I'm not just playing an unarmed swordsage instead. However, within the contraints of E6, this build needs to be a fighter for two main reasons. First is the speed at which this build's main trick gets online. The build has it's main trick functioning at level 6, and doing well after the first epic feat. In a build without those four bonus feats, it would take significantly longer. Secondly, the build requires a full BaB class to get access to elusive target and make optimal use of disarming.

    Spoiler: some numbers
    Show

    HP: 22+5d10(49 average)
    AC: 20
    energy resistance 5 against fire, ice, lightning and acid
    attack bonus: +10/+5 (including weapon focus)



    Spoiler: sources
    Show

    phb fighter, improved unarmed strike, improved disarm, combat expertise, combat reflexes, deflect arrows, improved trip, dodge, mobility, weapon focus, weapon specialization, two-weapon fighting
    Oriental adventures grappling block,
    Song and silence snatch weapon
    Tome of battle superior unarmed strike, snap kick, evasive reflexes
    complete warrior defensive throw, elusive target
    dragon magic dragonscale husk

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    There we go! Ten fighters fighting! Pretty sure that's part of the twelve days of Christmas.

    Also, unless I missed something, did we seriously not get one single Dungeoncrasher? Not one? I'm tempted to just award Honorable Mention to Vizzini right now. Like, it's not a problem, but I absolutely did not expect it.

    On your marks, get set, judge!
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Looks like very nice batch of builds! My original idea was to use an anthropomorphic baleen whale(LA +0), then min/max their Jump and carrying capacity because falling object damage is based on weight on distance, and bypasses damage reduction and ignores armor class.

    TLDR: Bouncing baleen that sits on people until they die.
    Last edited by Vrock Bait; 2020-05-11 at 07:36 PM.
    Spoiler: Total War
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    As
    The Celestial Empire of Longshan

    Spoiler: Domination Victory
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    Equinox League

    Red Aurora College - Fae of the Four Courts - Khalos Guild - Celestial Empire



    (Pretend there’s more spoilers here because I haven’t found the will to digitize my campaign setting yet)
    寧教我負天下人,休教天下人負我。

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Also, unless I missed something, did we seriously not get one single Dungeoncrasher? Not one? I'm tempted to just award Honorable Mention to Vizzini right now. Like, it's not a problem, but I absolutely did not expect it.
    Ten builds, no dungeoncrashers, no zhentarim soldiers. Did not see that coming.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by MinimanMidget View Post
    Ten builds, no dungeoncrashers, no zhentarim soldiers. Did not see that coming.
    Zhentarim is much less exciting before you can get the swift demoralise going.

    I was tempted to do either/both Imperious Command and Dungeoncrusher but ended up choosing a more streamlined option instead.

    Imperious Command is great in the Epic 6 setting, but that 15 CHA requirement hurts quite a bit.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    A lot more combat expertise feats than I was anticipating

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    So many humans... and think that my another stub (not finished) was using a raptoran and i was trying to make a ranged build with the fighter...but was too much "ranger" in the style
    Finally my computer is without any problem!
    Spoiler: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition Medals
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    Silver medal as Xin in Round XVII
    Gold Medal as Smit in Round XVIII
    Silver Medal as Hit Me In Round XIX
    Gold Medal as The Exiled in Round XIX
    Silver Medal as Elec Tri in Round XX
    Gold Medal as Tawamios in round XXI

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    My vague build started like this, with Zhentarim stuck in as well:

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Fighter 1 +1 +x +x +x Intimidate 4 Feats New Class Abilities
    2nd Fighter 2 +2 +x +x +x Intimidate 5 Feats New Class Abilities
    3rd Fighter 3 +3 +x +x +x Intimidate 6 Scourge of the Seas [Stormwrack], Skill Focus: Intimidate Applied Force +1, Bonus Feat (Skill Focus: Intimidate)
    4th Fighter 4 +4 +x +x +x Intimidate 7 Feats New Class Abilities
    5th Fighter 5 +5 +x +x +x Intimidate 8, Never Outnumbered [Complete Scoundrel] Feats Applied Force +2
    6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Intimidate 9 Imperious Command [Drow of the Underdark] New Class Abilities

    Planning to use Zhentarim to change the duration on Imperious Command and Scourge of the Seas was a thing, but I had real work to do and never got around to it.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentinas View Post
    So many humans... and think that my another stub (not finished) was using a raptoran and i was trying to make a ranged build with the fighter...but was too much "ranger" in the style
    That extra fear and Skill is so helpful

    Quote Originally Posted by MinimanMidget View Post
    Ten builds, no dungeoncrashers, no zhentarim soldiers. Did not see that coming.
    I'm not. Zhentarim didn't bring much, though it was a freebie, and Dungeoncrasher is incredibly well known
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    I sat this one out. Too much going on.

    I expected more Martial Training feats.

    But I was *tempted* to submit my versatility fighter. Because EWP Bastard Sword, Einhander, a variety of cloak feats, and the ability to fence with a bastard sword makes me giggle, every time.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    There we go! Ten fighters fighting! Pretty sure that's part of the twelve days of Christmas.

    Also, unless I missed something, did we seriously not get one single Dungeoncrasher? Not one? I'm tempted to just award Honorable Mention to Vizzini right now. Like, it's not a problem, but I absolutely did not expect it.

    On your marks, get set, judge!
    Was that an inconceivable joke?
    Thanks to Iruka for my Cranky Old Kobold avatar.Now get off my lawn.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by crankykobold View Post
    Was that an inconceivable joke?
    No, it's a Wine in Front of Me joke. The idea is that Vizzini-ing is thinking along the lines "It's obvious, so everyone will submit it, but everyone else knows that, so they won't submit it, but everyone knows that, so they'll submit it..."

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    That joke is only mostly dead

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Well it's new to me.
    Thanks to Iruka for my Cranky Old Kobold avatar.Now get off my lawn.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Lapak, are you still willing to judge?

    We're also always in need of other volunteers as well!
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Lapak, are you still willing to judge?

    We're also always in need of other volunteers as well!
    I am! Weekdays these days are slammed end-to-end for me, so I will be turning my attention to scoring as we go into the weekend.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Not there yet, but working away, just to keep y'all up to date.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    While we wait, anyone want to pitch some ideas for future ingredients?

    I'd like to see the jester or generic classes see a round. Or a racial round like shifters could be neat

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    I have the immediate next round all planned, but I am absolutely down for brainstorming. Keep 'em coming.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    While we wait, anyone want to pitch some ideas for future ingredients?

    I'd like to see the jester or generic classes see a round. Or a racial round like shifters could be neat
    The Generics would be pretty good for just getting plain old creative
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Should have my judging wrapped up today, thanks for the patience!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    While we wait, anyone want to pitch some ideas for future ingredients?

    I'd like to see the jester or generic classes see a round. Or a racial round like shifters could be neat
    I feel like Jester is a super narrow ingredient. It's a Bard with no support. I'd be down for a Generics round, but I honestly think they need to be done separately. There's little chance Expert or Warrior will rate higher than Spellcaster in terms of Power.
    Last edited by Luccan; 2020-05-22 at 06:44 PM.
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    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

    I for one support the Gnoman Empire.
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    Spoiler: Build Contests
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    E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing

    E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand


  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    I feel like Jester is a super narrow ingredient. It's a Bard with no support.
    They can take feats with the tag [bardic feats] thanks to the blurb under that feat type description.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    I'd be down for a Generics round, but I honestly think they need to be done separately. There's little chance Expert or Warrior will rate higher than Spellcaster in terms of Power.
    The mix and match combos though will lead to a big variety in what people pursue
    Last edited by daremetoidareyo; 2020-05-22 at 07:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    They can take feats with the tag [bardic feats] thanks to the blurb under that feat type description.



    The mix and match combos though will lead to a big variety in what people pursue
    Might be a little better then. I eventually want all the base classes to be touched on, but glancing again at the class left me wondering what you could do with it.

    As far as Generic Classes go, I just feel unless other combos get heavily weighted vs straight Spellcaster in other categories (which has its own problem of bias against single classed submissions, particularly Spellcaster) then you get a heavy boost going 6 levels in Spellcaster. I'd be alright with the round, but I'd still have my worries about points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

    I for one support the Gnoman Empire.
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    Spoiler: Build Contests
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    E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing

    E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand


  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    I would second going with just one of the Generics. Each one does something kinda neat and it'd be nice to see what everyone comes up with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
    "Mr. Aochev, tear down this wall!" Ro'n Ad-Ri'Gan, Bard
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  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XXIII)

    Tbh it’s been so long since I’ve even LOOKED at the genetics that I’ve forgotten all but the most rudimentary details of how they work. Not that it would be impossible to relearn.

    We’d have to discuss if we want to allow multiclassing into non-generic classes? From memory, I seem to recall that such things are... contentious. Thoughts on that from folks who are more familiar with such things?

    I will say that the next round’s ingredient has already been chosen. It is not a class. It is inspired by recent events. Feel free to speculate away; I ain’t changing it.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

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