New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 119
  1. - Top - End - #31

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Does it use its hands?
    uses those psion spider leg thingies with the climb speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    As others have said, this definitely feels like the GM is trying to arms-race you.
    we playing castle ravenloft right now so i really dont think so.

    box was destroyed by this vampire druid thing that crawled and dropped.
    box was destroyed by fireball from strahd.
    box was destroyed by an amber golem once.

    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyVos View Post
    Let's take these one at a time.

    Note that I don't usually play psionics, just standard Vancian casters, but most of these should work with psionics as well.



    Level 3-4: Use the terrain to your advantage. Slap down a Grease spell (Sculpted if possible) under the archers so they are so busy with trying to balance they can't focus on you. Hit them with Glitterdust. Reduce Person to increase your dodge AC. Pick up Cloudy Conjuration as a feat and summon something nearby (gives you free concealment every time you summon). Web them. Hit them with a fog cloud. Hit them with a Cloud of Bewilderment. Baleful Transposition one of the archers with your main damage dealer, putting your fighter in the middle of their squishy archers. Wall of Smoke them. Cast Shield on yourself. Cast Protection from Arrows.

    Level 5-6: In addition to the above, Sleet Storm, Dimension Step your allies, Stinking Cloud, Greater Mage Armor, Caustic Smoke, Unluck.

    Level 7-8: Evard's Black Tentacles (a grappled archer isn't shooting you), Solid Fog, Wall of Sand, Translocation Trick, Displacer Form, Heart of Earth (free Stoneskin), Trollshape (gets you regeneration).

    The short version is to stop thinking of defense and offense separately. Your best defense is to knock the people killing you out of the fight or get them distracted somehow.



    Much of what I said for archers applies, but there are some additional resources to deal with wizards (particularly inferior blaster wizards):

    Level 7-8: Dispelling Screen, Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser).

    Basically, they can't shoot magic at you through stuff like that, and lower-level spells aren't going to hurt you as much. You need to put the enemy wizard on the ground before he can open up on you.



    Easiest? Benign Transposition. You swap places with any willing ally. And then hit the stupid devil with all those other spells I mentioned.


    You really have to begin thinking offensively. Sure, you're going to get hit, but you shouldn't go down completely in the first round unless your DM really has it out for you (in which case you probably need to have an OOC conversation with the DM). And once you get past the initial surprise, you have a ton of options at your disposal for eliminating threats like you described.
    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    The spell wind wall is usually how I see wizards handling archers from levels 3-8.

    Resist energy (fire) can protect from fireballs.

    It takes some prep, but fire is usually the highest damage energy type you’ll face at those levels unless you’re going into particular and usually predictable situations where another energy would be more prevalent.

    Mage armor + shield is also generally enough to keep a wizard AC competitive.

    Blur and displacement also work well against attacks. As does mirror image.

    And if you just need hit points, false life isn’t great, but helps. An average of 8.5 extra hp at level 3 up to 13.5 extra at level 8.

    And, if your DM is focus firing you because he claims you’re the obvious threat, use disguise self to look like just another minion.

    Frankly, I’m surprised your DM hasn’t decided that bronzewood, being wood, is flammable and catches fire when exposed to a fireball, roasting you alive inside the box. Does he like you playing this way?

    I mean, on one character, it’s a big but potentially amusing and interesting quirk. As a strategy that every character uses, I would think it would get tiresome, and the fact the DM enables it but shuts down more normal ways of play is odd, to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quentinas View Post
    For example greater magic armor+ shield to gain a good bonus to AC , or protection from arrows, or invisibility or alter self for example to have even a better AC
    A fireball generally is launched against many party member but i can use dispel magic / false life/ item that boost my saves / protection from energy or use an amulet of tears for example
    From melee attacks an item i like is the shadow cloak from drow of the underdark, is a very good way to avoid complete attacks, and then i can use my spells to block the demon and against the fear aura there are spells like heroism or other items. Remember that theorically is a game played by a party so while your solution is based for you is not collaborative , and even thinking that each attack will go at you when there are other 3 party members (and assuming the typical composition 1 cleric that can be a problem like a wizard) that could be targeted. The solutions exists because not each one can create a box and let the minion do all work , so mainly my way to have a solution for the problems is using a magic item, or collaborate , there are spells and powers quite strong so the box solution work only if you play each time the same typology of character , is a solution? Yes it is, is a good solution, but if i would be a party member or the DM i wouldn't like it
    how do you guys have enough spell slots for stuff like shield and wind wall which you dont even know you are gonna use today and enough spells for offensive stuff? most of these spells are one encounter only.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    uses those psion spider leg thingies with the climb speed.
    I take it back - your GM is fairly permissive because no way would I allow them to manipulate objects with those.

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    box was destroyed by this vampire druid thing that crawled and dropped.
    box was destroyed by fireball from strahd.
    box was destroyed by an amber golem once.
    Is it possible that being in the box all the time is letting these threats catch you off-guard?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Seems like you could use this strategy without the silly box setup.
    But the box is safer than outside the box! What if there are enemies BEHIND the party, waiting for him to DD away? Nay I say, the box is the pinnacle of defense! It should not be abandoned until absolutely necessary! The box will break before the psion does!
    ...
    DD'ing away from the danger is yeah, probably a more sane solution, but in this case it does really seem that the DM is out to get this player, or playing the monsters intelligently ("Kill the nerd in robes first! He's defenseless!"), and I agree that if it's the former, talking about it OOC should help, and if the latter, responding intelligently should also help (ie disguising yourself as somebody else, using more advanced caster tactics, etc). If neither works, however, the box seems like a pretty good, thought out response, imo. At the very least, it's a better response to "*@*&@*%# you GM, I'm not gonna play anymore", because it seems like the player is invested in the game and is having fun, right?
    Last edited by Goaty14; 2020-04-28 at 09:43 AM.
    Spoiler: List of Things You Don't Need To Know
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    killing and eating a bag of rats is probably kosher.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking), and your humility is stunning

  4. - Top - End - #34

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I take it back - your GM is fairly permissive because no way would I allow them to manipulate objects with those.
    you might be right actually. i totally forgot he had 1str at diminuitive size. thats 2.5lbs carry weight. so he can at most lift 5lbs.

    ok i switch things around. psicrystal unbars flap, i use one hand to lift flap. bar will weight 5lbs. i use free action to drop flap, and my readied action to bar flap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Is it possible that being in the box all the time is letting these threats catch you off-guard?
    it wasnt offguard. he killed my astral construct then went for me as i spend a round creating a new one. except the druid. he ignored my construct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaty14 View Post
    because it seems like the player is invested in the game and is having fun, right?
    im having fun. 90% of encounters only my party members are risk of dying or suffering level drain, not me. i like it when im not at threat of level drain.
    Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-04-28 at 09:52 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    I usually find that mage armor + shield is more than enough defense. Mage armor by itself is usually enough. At level 3, that's two castings for the majority of the day. But this is for a wizard. You're a psion. (In a way, inertial armor is cheaper, because 1 pp is way cheaper than a level 1 spell slot, and more sustainable in a "once a fight" situation. In another, it's way WAY more expensive, because you ahve so few powers known.)

    As a psion, if you're already willing to huddle in a box, you could try getting full plate instead. You're not proficient, but you don't need to be, and it doesn't interfere with manifesting. And you can dimension door with your armor on!

    In said armor, you won't obviously stand out from the other fighter-types. Heck, carry a tower shield and stand in front of the druid or something like you're some sort of obstacle. If the bosses are ignoring your astral constructs, then they should ignore the useless defense-fighter who gets in the way of the real threats.

    Consider empty mind as a power known if you're really having that much trouble with fear effects. It's an immediate action, and you can pump your will save up by 3 at level 3, and by 5 at level 7 (and 8). If you've got overchannel and talented (though you probably don't with an astral construct-focused build), you can get it up to +6 at level 8 by overchanneling, and, since it's a level 1 power, Talented keeps it from costing you hp.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Aotrs Commander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Derby, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    for what?
    For what underlying issues that there are with the game that makes you so adverse to taking damage (which is part of the game) you have to bend the game mechanics to their most literal interpretation backwards into what... Okay, I'm just going to come right out and say it, is silliness.

    It concerns me that you asked that and didn't answer in the affirmative that you and your DM have already agreed this is okay, because that brings us right back to "arms race with the DM." And that's an out-of-character issue.

    You cannot win an arms race against the DM. You can't. If he REALLY wants to kill you, I could think of dozens of easy ways to counter or throw this tactics right back at you. But that's not the issue. Trying to one-up him with "nu-uh, you can't hurt my characters" is only more likely to make the DM want to and encourage that cycle.

    The way to "fix" the problem is to have an out-of-character, out-of-game talk with your DM and reach a compromise. I don't know - can't know - wihat the situation is. It may simply be that you and th DM don't have compatible playstyles for whatever reason, and then you have to make the decision as to whether, in light of that, you want to carry on. Mybae you do, maybe this DM's otherwise your best mate; I can't know that. But, from the information you have provided thus far, this very much sounds like you seeking an in-character solution for a problem which is out-of-game.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2020-04-28 at 11:02 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WesleyVos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    how do you guys have enough spell slots for stuff like shield and wind wall which you dont even know you are gonna use today and enough spells for offensive stuff? most of these spells are one encounter only.
    My typical build is a focused-specialist conjurer (Strongheart halfling) with at least an 18 starting INT (whatever I have to give up to get there). That gets me (at level 3) 6 cantrips, 4 level 1 spells, and 3 level 2 spells. Granted, most of them have to be conjuration (3/3/3) but it's well worth it. A typical load-out would be Sculpted Grease, Summon Monster I (cloudy conjuration), Benign Transposition, Mage Armor, Glitterdust, Web, and either Fog Cloud or Cloud of Bewilderment.

    If we increase that to level 8, that gives me 6 cantrips, 6 level 1's, 5 level 2's, 5 level 3's, and 4 level 4's, with three of each of those needing to be conjuration. That's more than enough to handle a day's worth of encounters. Again, a typical loadout ends up being:

    Level 1: Sculpted Grease, Grease x2, Mage Armor, and two floating spots based on the day's needs.
    Level 2: Glitterdust, Web, Fog Cloud, Baleful Transposition x2
    Level 3: Stinking Cloud, Greater Magic Armor, Summon Monster III (x2), floating spot. I'll often throw in Wall of Chains as a good BFC spell.
    Level 4: Evard's Black Tentacles, Summon Monster IV, Phantom Steed (if outdoors, otherwise floating spot), floating spot.

    That's plenty of spells to last a full adventuring day. I'd also probably have a few level 1 wands (Enlarge person, Silent Image, Reduce Person, Benign Transposition) that are useful in a pinch but spells that I don't want to have to memorize.
    One of my players: "I hate you. I spent like...3 hours pouring over lists of items for bards. Reading, learning, analyzing, trying to improve my knowledge of the game, as I have a major decision coming up. You know what I decided after all of this? Vest of Resistance +3. Simply because you are that evil. No Cloak of Charisma, no Bardic Music enhancers. NOPE. VEST OF RESISTANCE."

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    ok i switch things around. psicrystal unbars flap, i use one hand to lift flap. bar will weight 5lbs. i use free action to drop flap, and my readied action to bar flap.
    I'm saying that it shouldn't be able to finely manipulate objects at all, irrespective of their weight, including bars and latches. Again though, if your GM is allowing that then it doesn't matter what I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    it wasnt offguard. he killed my astral construct then went for me as i spend a round creating a new one. except the druid. he ignored my construct.
    I meant the one that fell on your box from the ceiling. Did you have a chance to notice he was there? It sounds like a "gotcha" sort of attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  9. - Top - End - #39

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I'm saying that it shouldn't be able to finely manipulate objects at all, irrespective of their weight, including bars and latches. Again though, if your GM is allowing that then it doesn't matter what I think.
    if a psicrystal that can move uses its sticky feet to pull something within his weight (flap), or pushes something sideways like a dog burying his head under something until it slides 1ft left (bar), why shouldnt it move? its not fine manipulation. its just a flap like a doggie door or a bar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I meant the one that fell on your box from the ceiling. Did you have a chance to notice he was there? It sounds like a "gotcha" sort of attack.
    yeah. i had 2 quoris and an astral construct. he killed the astral construct in 2 rounds, then started climbing the ceiling because my quoris were blocking his way to me. after my astral construct manifested he dropped down on top of me. then he ignored the construct and tried to break my box. he did, i dd out, he fought until he turned into a vampiric mist and floated somewhere far away but not before severely wounding another party member.
    Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-04-28 at 12:39 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Telok's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    61.2° N, 149.9° W
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    For a psion, particularly a shaper one, investing a level of fighter (or warblade, etc.) is perfectly allowable. Being a dwarf with a high Con is useful too.

    Armor to your dex, tripping pole arm, stand behind your mook, the psychic shield power. That can carry you through to mid levels just fine. A 16+ con dwarf gets pretty decent hp & save bonuses even before hit dice. Vigor is nice but vulnerable to dispell.

    At higher levels you care more about line of sight blockers, blind sight denial, using true seeing liberally, and hard counters on enemy actions. Plus armor is a good place to put defensive enchantments.

    The issue I see with the box is it encapsulates you, so it isn't "on your person" equipment and doesn't share your defenses/saves. A scroll of disentegrate and it's gone, leaving you exposed. Even better might be a teleport denial area and an airtight shaped wall of stone around it.

    For hilarity the power that can teleport enemy equipment into your hands is fun. Will save and SR, but you use it on archer/fighter types to steal weapons.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    United States

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    im having fun. 90% of encounters only my party members are risk of dying or suffering level drain, not me. I like it when im not at threat of level drain.
    And you know what? This is what matters. If you, your party, and your GM, are all having a good time, then your box is perfectly viable.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Eh, I don't see anything in the psicrystal or psion entries that says the legs are "sticky." So pulling is out. Moving to push the flap open means you won't be able to drop it to close it, the psicrystal is still there and should be exposed when your turn ends. Involving it in combat like this isn't the best idea imo. Again though, that's just how I would rule it, your GM's opinion is the one that matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  13. - Top - End - #43

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Eh, I don't see anything in the psicrystal or psion entries that says the legs are "sticky." So pulling is out. Moving to push the flap open means you won't be able to drop it to close it, the psicrystal is still there and should be exposed when your turn ends. Involving it in combat like this isn't the best idea imo. Again though, that's just how I would rule it, your GM's opinion is the one that matters.
    the legs give it climb speed. how is that not sticky. if it wasnt sticky it wouldnt give climb speed.
    pushing is pushing the bar <----- so it no longer covers the flap so i can lift it myself (it only opens inwards otherwise bar would be pointless), and the pushing it back ------> so it covers the flap.

    pushing bar is probably best route so i can use 5 x 2.5 = 12.5lb bar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    The issue I see with the box is it encapsulates you, so it isn't "on your person" equipment and doesn't share your defenses/saves. A scroll of disentegrate and it's gone, leaving you exposed. Even better might be a teleport denial area and an airtight shaped wall of stone around it.
    yeah. autofail every reflex save cause the box doesnt move. is why fireball destroyed it in one shot. but my reflex save is terrible, so is my fort save so i rather have a box disintegrate and dd out rather than try my luck at that saving throw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angrith View Post
    And you know what? This is what matters. If you, your party, and your GM, are all having a good time, then your box is perfectly viable.
    i dont see what the big deal is. this isnt drown healing or anything weird and unrealistic. if a paranoid guy wants to stay inside a barrel and be carried around like luggage, why would any of this matter to anyone?

    i dont understand why Aotrs Commander is so angry at this. it is silly. thats part of why its fun. the box adventurer.
    Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-04-28 at 01:06 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Aotrs Commander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Derby, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    i dont see what the big deal is. this isnt drown healing or anything weird and unrealistic. if a paranoid guy wants to stay inside a barrel and be carried around like luggage, why would any of this matter to anyone?

    i dont understand why Aotrs Commander is so angry at this. it is silly. thats part of why its fun.
    Angry? Not remotely. Concerned? Potentially. We get enough people around there posting stuff that boils down to trying to deal with out-of-game conflicts via what is essentially spite-play that it needs to be at least ASKED that's not what's going on, because that's not how those situations should be handled.

    As I said, if you and your group are okay with the state of affairs (which you hadn't said up to that post), that's fine; I cannot and will not tell you you're having badwrongfun. If you're all happy with an enviroment of high PC-death that's a perfectly valid way to play, and I have nothing more I can contribute. But you didn't say that was the case straight away, so we can't know whether the DM had it out for you personally or what, which would be symptomatic of an out-of-character issue which no amount of rules-savvy will fix.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2020-04-28 at 01:15 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #45

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    But you didn't say that was the case straight away, so we can't know whether the DM had it out for you personally or what, which would be symptomatic of an out-of-character issue which no amount of rules-savvy will fix.
    sorry. my bad. i apologize. im not good at talking. so sorry.

    my wizard deaths were from a different dm. i never played wizard with my current dm. i played cleric, sorcerer, artificer, and psion but not wizard. and with that dm my wizard died a lot. i dont think its cause of an arms race. i mean we were doing modules and fireball and archers are common. but those deaths got me scared and now i am really paranoid when i play a d4 hit die character with no armor proficiency. (Telok accurately pointed out i could wear full plate with my psion. i cant believe i never thought of this. i guess i thought psion = wizard)

    with the current dm we only had 1 pc death and he died because the bbeg landed a crit with some kind of a negative energy boosted attack. it was really unlucky.

    i shouldve said this at the start. my bad.

    but the box did save me from 3 deaths with my current dm who is also just doing modules. so my paranoia is well founded imo.
    Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-04-28 at 01:22 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    the legs give it climb speed. how is that not sticky. if it wasnt sticky it wouldnt give climb speed.
    I viewed that more as finding tiny purchase in the surface it's climbing, rather than an adhesive. A climb speed doesn't give you the ability to manipulate things, even some snakes have a climb speed, and they don't have anything "sticky" nor limbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    pushing is pushing the bar <----- so it no longer covers the flap so i can lift it myself (it only opens inwards otherwise bar would be pointless), and the pushing it back ------> so it covers the flap.
    I still don't buy it but once again, I'm not your GM, so I'll leave it there.

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    i dont see what the big deal is. this isnt drown healing or anything weird and unrealistic. if a paranoid guy wants to stay inside a barrel and be carried around like luggage, why would any of this matter to anyone?
    I mean, it doesn't, except for the fact that it really shouldn't work if you're fighting enemies with, like, any intelligence. So either your GM is taking some measure of pity on you (despite causing you to use such unorthodox tactics in the first place) or they think it's more effective than it actually is (e.g. forgetting that readied actions exist.) Regardless, if you're both having fun that's the important thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  17. - Top - End - #47

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    pushing is pushing the bar <----- so it no longer covers the flap so i can lift it myself (it only opens inwards otherwise bar would be pointless), and the pushing it back ------> so it covers the flap.
    This works. Diminuitive creatures are fully capable of pushing and pulling objects just like any other creature. Whether its pushing a bag, a box, or a bar, doesn't matter. If the ground supports the object's weight, you can push or drag it in any horizontal direction. A bar's weight is supported by the bar handles. The bars are fully capable of sliding left or right, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with a diminuitive creature pushing the bar left or right. Psicrystals have a climb speed of 20ft and we're talking about moving an object 1ft.

    I can't see any reason why a DM would say otherwise. Carry weight, dragging rules, what else is involved?

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Your paranoia is well-founded - squishy d4 characters die a lot, especially under me. But also with me running them.

    Personally, I've found "good will saves" and "Trollblooded" do wonders for surviving most of those; DR can help with actually staying conscious instead of being dropped in the first round.

    Actually, I had a regenerating "Fighter" who, even with DR and immunity to most elements, was generally dropped in the 1st round of combat, so even getting away from the d4 is no guarantee.

    Also… how do you see out of your box, to know what actions to take? Or do you just "summon, replenish, repeat"? Which begs the question, "how does your <summon> know what to do?".

    That - and the fact that you, iirc (from previous thread) completely overshadow the 2 Fighters in the party - are the only problems I see the build. Assuming you have a Ring of Sustenance, or a chamber pot, that is.

    The box is nice. Stay inside the box, where it's safe… until your opponents learn about "readied actions", that is.

    Once they do… see if you can get Trollblooded Necropolitan Elf with Int to HP. In armor. Venerable to taste. If your Summoning has range (or can otherwise work with this plan), getting minions to carry you up high, out of reach of the general rabble (and many monsters) can replace many of the box's functions, while making your character seem less "paranoid" and more "lordly".

    Back to the box… if you're going to play the game the Armus way, you *want* your opponents - especially at higher level - to waste their turns holding an action to shoot at you over the more optimal full attack action. You just need to have your plans in place on how you are going to survive such focused fire. The best answer, of course, is that the guy that they see through the hole is *not* you, so arrows and targeted spells either fail on an illusion, or hit a disposable Summon with a Hat of Disguise. Being the Venerable Trollblooded Necropolitan Elf in armor… inside the box… is another fairly survivable option.

    I've made some fairly… "survivable" characters. I think, were I to make another, I would probably have paid for Animate Objects + Permanency on ship-grade adamantine. So the box carries itself.

  19. - Top - End - #49

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Also… how do you see out of your box, to know what actions to take? Or do you just "summon, replenish, repeat"? Which begs the question, "how does your <summon> know what to do?".
    elemental envoys and quoris have telepathy. telepathy goes through walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Once they do… see if you can get Trollblooded Necropolitan Elf with Int to HP. In armor. Venerable to taste. If your Summoning has range (or can otherwise work with this plan), getting minions to carry you up high, out of reach of the general rabble (and many monsters) can replace many of the box's functions, while making your character seem less "paranoid" and more "lordly".
    i need con 13 for midnight augmentation which is needed for power point regeneration.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Earth

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Use Arms and Equipment Guide to make yourself Stronghold Builder's Guide a better Battle Box?

    You can make yourself a really nifty hovertank with that book.
    Last edited by Emperor Tippy; 2020-05-04 at 05:46 PM.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Rater202's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Where I am

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    If the current GM is okay with the Box, see about getting an Adamantine Box. (Or Pure Ore Oearthblooded Obdrium, to reference another thread) to minimize the chances of the box getting broken.

    Otherwise, a dip in a class that gives you heavy armor proficiency combined with the most durable armor and shield you can get is a good start. The heaviest armor you can wear without losing your Dex bonus to AC, if you have one. Preferable Adamantine or similar, becuase it gives you DR, with defensive enchantments: Fortification to resist crits or Greater(Energy) Resistance should protect you from most hits of that energy.

    The trollblooded feat is also good, and if you don't mind hits to dex and cha the combination of Mongrelfolk and Dragonborn of Bahamut gives a pretty major con-bonus.

    If you're willing to put up with a +1 level adjustment and a hit to int, the Gheddon template makes you immune to nonlethal damage, stunning and death by massive damage and some bonus feats that minorly improve durability while maintaining a con score, which combined with trollblooded makes you immune to everything but fire and acid

    Though this thread tells me that my "normal dude living in an indestructible flying chest" base class idea might have a market.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
    Awesome Avatar by Emperor Ing
    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    MaxiDuRaritry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Don't forget vigor + share pain + share both with psicrystal. Effectively doubles your hp AND temp hp.

    A handful of +1 manifester arrows can easily fuel that combo all day, and they're quite cheap.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-04-29 at 11:47 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Telok's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    61.2° N, 149.9° W
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Oh, look up the revenant race. It's an undead out for vengance. Until it finds that vengance the only ways to make it stop coming back are wish, miracle, and remove curse. Seriously, beat to 0 hp & disentegrated? Comes back.

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by newguydude1 View Post
    no. i dont want enemies to roll me down a cliff and to my death.

    its a box to maximize friction, and theres empty space i can fill with even more bronzewood to make my box so heavy it cant be moved.
    I'd be more concerned with my enemies sneaking in and applying some Sovereign Glue to the flap. As part of your defense, you should find a way to survive without air, food, or water. (Going to the bathroom may be an issue, too). Have you considered becoming Undead? Vampire would be the intuitive pick, but I'd advise against it; they would need to leave the box to feed occasionally. A Lich or a Necropolitan would probably work better.

  25. - Top - End - #55

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    I'd be more concerned with my enemies sneaking in and applying some Sovereign Glue to the flap. As part of your defense, you should find a way to survive without air, food, or water. (Going to the bathroom may be an issue, too). Have you considered becoming Undead? Vampire would be the intuitive pick, but I'd advise against it; they would need to leave the box to feed occasionally. A Lich or a Necropolitan would probably work better.
    It's minor creation so the duration ends.
    Hardness 10 is not insurmountable. His summons or his party members can easily spend a minute destroying it.
    It's dispellable.

    In his other thread, his psion is a warforged scout. Better than a necropolitan imo. He also mentioned about needing a con score to grab incarnum feats a few posts up.
    Last edited by magicalmagicman; 2020-04-30 at 06:18 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Lord Haart's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    I'd be more concerned with my enemies sneaking in and applying some Sovereign Glue to the flap. As part of your defense, you should find a way to survive without air, food, or water. (Going to the bathroom may be an issue, too). Have you considered becoming Undead? Vampire would be the intuitive pick, but I'd advise against it; they would need to leave the box to feed occasionally. A Lich or a Necropolitan would probably work better.
    Actually, a good way to keep oneself safe-ish is becoming a Ghost rather than a corporeal undead. (Specifically the Ghost savage progression, which unfortunately seems no longer available on WoTC site). Not only does incorporeality give you some degree of protection against material enemies (while you can cherry-pick powers and abilities that aren't hindered at all), and undeath itself isn't bad either as far as immunities are concerned, but you also have a chance (1d20+HD check at DC 16) to reform after being destroyed (unless the reason you cling to the living world is solved as well). (Note that this last ability requires 3 levels in the template class, so level 4 at the minimum, so it's not part of the level 2-3 package you seek; the rest is, though.)

    Also, being incorporeal and flying, you can move into and out of solid objects/surfaces to break LOS pretty much at-will. So you can hide in walls, ceiling, or in the floor. The world is now your box!
    Last edited by Lord Haart; 2020-04-30 at 07:18 AM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Elitarismo View Post
    Complaining about martial characters dipping many different classes is like complaining that the sun is hot.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArqArturo View Post
    When I first wanted to build a gish, I wanted to be the guy that threw fireballs, lightning bolts, wore spiked fullplate and reigned death and destruction (…)

    So I rolled a cleric.

    To everyone i played with in a certain campaign: i'm sorry i've dropped off without a warning, but a sudden case of twin daughers is a very solid reason, trust me.

  27. - Top - End - #57

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Haart View Post
    Also, being incorporeal and flying, you can move into and out of solid objects/surfaces to break LOS pretty much at-will. So you can hide in walls, ceiling, or in the floor. The world is now your box!
    Incorporeal can't go through walls. They can attack through walls, they can move most of their body through walls, but they can't completely walk through a wall.

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Powerdork's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Canadia
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicalmagicman View Post
    Incorporeal can't go through walls. They can attack through walls, they can move most of their body through walls, but they can't completely walk through a wall.
    You're close.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Manual
    An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own.
    This allows room for a ghost to pass through thin walls; a ghost hydra could pass through a wall 15 feet thick, but not 20 feet thick.
    The future is bright.

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Ghosts are a special case because they are ethereal, not merely incorporeal. Ghosts can walk through walls of any thickness easily (though they may not always see where they're going), and could go through the entire planet provided something related to their Purpose isn't keeping them in one spot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Haart View Post
    (Specifically the Ghost savage progression, which unfortunately seems no longer available on WoTC site).
    Does anyone have it saved anywhere?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •