Results 31 to 60 of 119
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2020-04-28, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
uses those psion spider leg thingies with the climb speed.
we playing castle ravenloft right now so i really dont think so.
box was destroyed by this vampire druid thing that crawled and dropped.
box was destroyed by fireball from strahd.
box was destroyed by an amber golem once.
how do you guys have enough spell slots for stuff like shield and wind wall which you dont even know you are gonna use today and enough spells for offensive stuff? most of these spells are one encounter only.
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2020-04-28, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2020-04-28, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
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- ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
But the box is safer than outside the box! What if there are enemies BEHIND the party, waiting for him to DD away? Nay I say, the box is the pinnacle of defense! It should not be abandoned until absolutely necessary! The box will break before the psion does!
...
DD'ing away from the danger is yeah, probably a more sane solution, but in this case it does really seem that the DM is out to get this player, or playing the monsters intelligently ("Kill the nerd in robes first! He's defenseless!"), and I agree that if it's the former, talking about it OOC should help, and if the latter, responding intelligently should also help (ie disguising yourself as somebody else, using more advanced caster tactics, etc). If neither works, however, the box seems like a pretty good, thought out response, imo. At the very least, it's a better response to "*@*&@*%# you GM, I'm not gonna play anymore", because it seems like the player is invested in the game and is having fun, right?
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2020-04-28, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
you might be right actually. i totally forgot he had 1str at diminuitive size. thats 2.5lbs carry weight. so he can at most lift 5lbs.
ok i switch things around. psicrystal unbars flap, i use one hand to lift flap. bar will weight 5lbs. i use free action to drop flap, and my readied action to bar flap.
it wasnt offguard. he killed my astral construct then went for me as i spend a round creating a new one. except the druid. he ignored my construct.
im having fun. 90% of encounters only my party members are risk of dying or suffering level drain, not me. i like it when im not at threat of level drain.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-04-28 at 09:52 AM.
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2020-04-28, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
I usually find that mage armor + shield is more than enough defense. Mage armor by itself is usually enough. At level 3, that's two castings for the majority of the day. But this is for a wizard. You're a psion. (In a way, inertial armor is cheaper, because 1 pp is way cheaper than a level 1 spell slot, and more sustainable in a "once a fight" situation. In another, it's way WAY more expensive, because you ahve so few powers known.)
As a psion, if you're already willing to huddle in a box, you could try getting full plate instead. You're not proficient, but you don't need to be, and it doesn't interfere with manifesting. And you can dimension door with your armor on!
In said armor, you won't obviously stand out from the other fighter-types. Heck, carry a tower shield and stand in front of the druid or something like you're some sort of obstacle. If the bosses are ignoring your astral constructs, then they should ignore the useless defense-fighter who gets in the way of the real threats.
Consider empty mind as a power known if you're really having that much trouble with fear effects. It's an immediate action, and you can pump your will save up by 3 at level 3, and by 5 at level 7 (and 8). If you've got overchannel and talented (though you probably don't with an astral construct-focused build), you can get it up to +6 at level 8 by overchanneling, and, since it's a level 1 power, Talented keeps it from costing you hp.
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2020-04-28, 11:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Derby, UK
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
For what underlying issues that there are with the game that makes you so adverse to taking damage (which is part of the game) you have to bend the game mechanics to their most literal interpretation backwards into what... Okay, I'm just going to come right out and say it, is silliness.
It concerns me that you asked that and didn't answer in the affirmative that you and your DM have already agreed this is okay, because that brings us right back to "arms race with the DM." And that's an out-of-character issue.
You cannot win an arms race against the DM. You can't. If he REALLY wants to kill you, I could think of dozens of easy ways to counter or throw this tactics right back at you. But that's not the issue. Trying to one-up him with "nu-uh, you can't hurt my characters" is only more likely to make the DM want to and encourage that cycle.
The way to "fix" the problem is to have an out-of-character, out-of-game talk with your DM and reach a compromise. I don't know - can't know - wihat the situation is. It may simply be that you and th DM don't have compatible playstyles for whatever reason, and then you have to make the decision as to whether, in light of that, you want to carry on. Mybae you do, maybe this DM's otherwise your best mate; I can't know that. But, from the information you have provided thus far, this very much sounds like you seeking an in-character solution for a problem which is out-of-game.Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2020-04-28 at 11:02 AM.
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2020-04-28, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
My typical build is a focused-specialist conjurer (Strongheart halfling) with at least an 18 starting INT (whatever I have to give up to get there). That gets me (at level 3) 6 cantrips, 4 level 1 spells, and 3 level 2 spells. Granted, most of them have to be conjuration (3/3/3) but it's well worth it. A typical load-out would be Sculpted Grease, Summon Monster I (cloudy conjuration), Benign Transposition, Mage Armor, Glitterdust, Web, and either Fog Cloud or Cloud of Bewilderment.
If we increase that to level 8, that gives me 6 cantrips, 6 level 1's, 5 level 2's, 5 level 3's, and 4 level 4's, with three of each of those needing to be conjuration. That's more than enough to handle a day's worth of encounters. Again, a typical loadout ends up being:
Level 1: Sculpted Grease, Grease x2, Mage Armor, and two floating spots based on the day's needs.
Level 2: Glitterdust, Web, Fog Cloud, Baleful Transposition x2
Level 3: Stinking Cloud, Greater Magic Armor, Summon Monster III (x2), floating spot. I'll often throw in Wall of Chains as a good BFC spell.
Level 4: Evard's Black Tentacles, Summon Monster IV, Phantom Steed (if outdoors, otherwise floating spot), floating spot.
That's plenty of spells to last a full adventuring day. I'd also probably have a few level 1 wands (Enlarge person, Silent Image, Reduce Person, Benign Transposition) that are useful in a pinch but spells that I don't want to have to memorize.One of my players: "I hate you. I spent like...3 hours pouring over lists of items for bards. Reading, learning, analyzing, trying to improve my knowledge of the game, as I have a major decision coming up. You know what I decided after all of this? Vest of Resistance +3. Simply because you are that evil. No Cloak of Charisma, no Bardic Music enhancers. NOPE. VEST OF RESISTANCE."
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2020-04-28, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
I'm saying that it shouldn't be able to finely manipulate objects at all, irrespective of their weight, including bars and latches. Again though, if your GM is allowing that then it doesn't matter what I think.
I meant the one that fell on your box from the ceiling. Did you have a chance to notice he was there? It sounds like a "gotcha" sort of attack.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2020-04-28, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
if a psicrystal that can move uses its sticky feet to pull something within his weight (flap), or pushes something sideways like a dog burying his head under something until it slides 1ft left (bar), why shouldnt it move? its not fine manipulation. its just a flap like a doggie door or a bar.
yeah. i had 2 quoris and an astral construct. he killed the astral construct in 2 rounds, then started climbing the ceiling because my quoris were blocking his way to me. after my astral construct manifested he dropped down on top of me. then he ignored the construct and tried to break my box. he did, i dd out, he fought until he turned into a vampiric mist and floated somewhere far away but not before severely wounding another party member.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-04-28 at 12:39 PM.
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2020-04-28, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2005
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- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
For a psion, particularly a shaper one, investing a level of fighter (or warblade, etc.) is perfectly allowable. Being a dwarf with a high Con is useful too.
Armor to your dex, tripping pole arm, stand behind your mook, the psychic shield power. That can carry you through to mid levels just fine. A 16+ con dwarf gets pretty decent hp & save bonuses even before hit dice. Vigor is nice but vulnerable to dispell.
At higher levels you care more about line of sight blockers, blind sight denial, using true seeing liberally, and hard counters on enemy actions. Plus armor is a good place to put defensive enchantments.
The issue I see with the box is it encapsulates you, so it isn't "on your person" equipment and doesn't share your defenses/saves. A scroll of disentegrate and it's gone, leaving you exposed. Even better might be a teleport denial area and an airtight shaped wall of stone around it.
For hilarity the power that can teleport enemy equipment into your hands is fun. Will save and SR, but you use it on archer/fighter types to steal weapons.
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2020-04-28, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
- Location
- United States
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2020-04-28, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Eh, I don't see anything in the psicrystal or psion entries that says the legs are "sticky." So pulling is out. Moving to push the flap open means you won't be able to drop it to close it, the psicrystal is still there and should be exposed when your turn ends. Involving it in combat like this isn't the best idea imo. Again though, that's just how I would rule it, your GM's opinion is the one that matters.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2020-04-28, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
the legs give it climb speed. how is that not sticky. if it wasnt sticky it wouldnt give climb speed.
pushing is pushing the bar <----- so it no longer covers the flap so i can lift it myself (it only opens inwards otherwise bar would be pointless), and the pushing it back ------> so it covers the flap.
pushing bar is probably best route so i can use 5 x 2.5 = 12.5lb bar.
yeah. autofail every reflex save cause the box doesnt move. is why fireball destroyed it in one shot. but my reflex save is terrible, so is my fort save so i rather have a box disintegrate and dd out rather than try my luck at that saving throw.
i dont see what the big deal is. this isnt drown healing or anything weird and unrealistic. if a paranoid guy wants to stay inside a barrel and be carried around like luggage, why would any of this matter to anyone?
i dont understand why Aotrs Commander is so angry at this. it is silly. thats part of why its fun. the box adventurer.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-04-28 at 01:06 PM.
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2020-04-28, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Derby, UK
- Gender
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Angry? Not remotely. Concerned? Potentially. We get enough people around there posting stuff that boils down to trying to deal with out-of-game conflicts via what is essentially spite-play that it needs to be at least ASKED that's not what's going on, because that's not how those situations should be handled.
As I said, if you and your group are okay with the state of affairs (which you hadn't said up to that post), that's fine; I cannot and will not tell you you're having badwrongfun. If you're all happy with an enviroment of high PC-death that's a perfectly valid way to play, and I have nothing more I can contribute. But you didn't say that was the case straight away, so we can't know whether the DM had it out for you personally or what, which would be symptomatic of an out-of-character issue which no amount of rules-savvy will fix.Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2020-04-28 at 01:15 PM.
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2020-04-28, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
sorry. my bad. i apologize. im not good at talking. so sorry.
my wizard deaths were from a different dm. i never played wizard with my current dm. i played cleric, sorcerer, artificer, and psion but not wizard. and with that dm my wizard died a lot. i dont think its cause of an arms race. i mean we were doing modules and fireball and archers are common. but those deaths got me scared and now i am really paranoid when i play a d4 hit die character with no armor proficiency. (Telok accurately pointed out i could wear full plate with my psion. i cant believe i never thought of this. i guess i thought psion = wizard)
with the current dm we only had 1 pc death and he died because the bbeg landed a crit with some kind of a negative energy boosted attack. it was really unlucky.
i shouldve said this at the start. my bad.
but the box did save me from 3 deaths with my current dm who is also just doing modules. so my paranoia is well founded imo.Last edited by newguydude1; 2020-04-28 at 01:22 PM.
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2020-04-28, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
I viewed that more as finding tiny purchase in the surface it's climbing, rather than an adhesive. A climb speed doesn't give you the ability to manipulate things, even some snakes have a climb speed, and they don't have anything "sticky" nor limbs.
I still don't buy it but once again, I'm not your GM, so I'll leave it there.
I mean, it doesn't, except for the fact that it really shouldn't work if you're fighting enemies with, like, any intelligence. So either your GM is taking some measure of pity on you (despite causing you to use such unorthodox tactics in the first place) or they think it's more effective than it actually is (e.g. forgetting that readied actions exist.) Regardless, if you're both having fun that's the important thing.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2020-04-28, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
This works. Diminuitive creatures are fully capable of pushing and pulling objects just like any other creature. Whether its pushing a bag, a box, or a bar, doesn't matter. If the ground supports the object's weight, you can push or drag it in any horizontal direction. A bar's weight is supported by the bar handles. The bars are fully capable of sliding left or right, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with a diminuitive creature pushing the bar left or right. Psicrystals have a climb speed of 20ft and we're talking about moving an object 1ft.
I can't see any reason why a DM would say otherwise. Carry weight, dragging rules, what else is involved?
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2020-04-29, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Your paranoia is well-founded - squishy d4 characters die a lot, especially under me. But also with me running them.
Personally, I've found "good will saves" and "Trollblooded" do wonders for surviving most of those; DR can help with actually staying conscious instead of being dropped in the first round.
Actually, I had a regenerating "Fighter" who, even with DR and immunity to most elements, was generally dropped in the 1st round of combat, so even getting away from the d4 is no guarantee.
Also… how do you see out of your box, to know what actions to take? Or do you just "summon, replenish, repeat"? Which begs the question, "how does your <summon> know what to do?".
That - and the fact that you, iirc (from previous thread) completely overshadow the 2 Fighters in the party - are the only problems I see the build. Assuming you have a Ring of Sustenance, or a chamber pot, that is.
The box is nice. Stay inside the box, where it's safe… until your opponents learn about "readied actions", that is.
Once they do… see if you can get Trollblooded Necropolitan Elf with Int to HP. In armor. Venerable to taste. If your Summoning has range (or can otherwise work with this plan), getting minions to carry you up high, out of reach of the general rabble (and many monsters) can replace many of the box's functions, while making your character seem less "paranoid" and more "lordly".
Back to the box… if you're going to play the game the Armus way, you *want* your opponents - especially at higher level - to waste their turns holding an action to shoot at you over the more optimal full attack action. You just need to have your plans in place on how you are going to survive such focused fire. The best answer, of course, is that the guy that they see through the hole is *not* you, so arrows and targeted spells either fail on an illusion, or hit a disposable Summon with a Hat of Disguise. Being the Venerable Trollblooded Necropolitan Elf in armor… inside the box… is another fairly survivable option.
I've made some fairly… "survivable" characters. I think, were I to make another, I would probably have paid for Animate Objects + Permanency on ship-grade adamantine. So the box carries itself.
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2020-04-29, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
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2020-04-29, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Earth
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Use
Arms and Equipment Guide to make yourselfStronghold Builder's Guide a better Battle Box?
You can make yourself a really nifty hovertank with that book.Last edited by Emperor Tippy; 2020-05-04 at 05:46 PM.
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2020-04-29, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Where I am
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
If the current GM is okay with the Box, see about getting an Adamantine Box. (Or Pure Ore Oearthblooded Obdrium, to reference another thread) to minimize the chances of the box getting broken.
Otherwise, a dip in a class that gives you heavy armor proficiency combined with the most durable armor and shield you can get is a good start. The heaviest armor you can wear without losing your Dex bonus to AC, if you have one. Preferable Adamantine or similar, becuase it gives you DR, with defensive enchantments: Fortification to resist crits or Greater(Energy) Resistance should protect you from most hits of that energy.
The trollblooded feat is also good, and if you don't mind hits to dex and cha the combination of Mongrelfolk and Dragonborn of Bahamut gives a pretty major con-bonus.
If you're willing to put up with a +1 level adjustment and a hit to int, the Gheddon template makes you immune to nonlethal damage, stunning and death by massive damage and some bonus feats that minorly improve durability while maintaining a con score, which combined with trollblooded makes you immune to everything but fire and acid
Though this thread tells me that my "normal dude living in an indestructible flying chest" base class idea might have a market.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
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2020-04-29, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Don't forget vigor + share pain + share both with psicrystal. Effectively doubles your hp AND temp hp.
A handful of +1 manifester arrows can easily fuel that combo all day, and they're quite cheap.Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2020-04-29 at 11:47 PM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2020-04-29, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Oh, look up the revenant race. It's an undead out for vengance. Until it finds that vengance the only ways to make it stop coming back are wish, miracle, and remove curse. Seriously, beat to 0 hp & disentegrated? Comes back.
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2020-04-30, 06:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Wandering in Harrekh
- Gender
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
I'd be more concerned with my enemies sneaking in and applying some Sovereign Glue to the flap. As part of your defense, you should find a way to survive without air, food, or water. (Going to the bathroom may be an issue, too). Have you considered becoming Undead? Vampire would be the intuitive pick, but I'd advise against it; they would need to leave the box to feed occasionally. A Lich or a Necropolitan would probably work better.
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2020-04-30, 06:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
It's minor creation so the duration ends.
Hardness 10 is not insurmountable. His summons or his party members can easily spend a minute destroying it.
It's dispellable.
In his other thread, his psion is a warforged scout. Better than a necropolitan imo. He also mentioned about needing a con score to grab incarnum feats a few posts up.Last edited by magicalmagicman; 2020-04-30 at 06:18 AM.
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2020-04-30, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Actually, a good way to keep oneself safe-ish is becoming a Ghost rather than a corporeal undead. (Specifically the Ghost savage progression, which unfortunately seems no longer available on WoTC site). Not only does incorporeality give you some degree of protection against material enemies (while you can cherry-pick powers and abilities that aren't hindered at all), and undeath itself isn't bad either as far as immunities are concerned, but you also have a chance (1d20+HD check at DC 16) to reform after being destroyed (unless the reason you cling to the living world is solved as well). (Note that this last ability requires 3 levels in the template class, so level 4 at the minimum, so it's not part of the level 2-3 package you seek; the rest is, though.)
Also, being incorporeal and flying, you can move into and out of solid objects/surfaces to break LOS pretty much at-will. So you can hide in walls, ceiling, or in the floor. The world is now your box!
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2020-04-30, 08:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
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2020-04-30, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
- Location
- Canadia
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Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
The future is bright.
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2020-04-30, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: how are you supposed to defend yourself without a box?
Ghosts are a special case because they are ethereal, not merely incorporeal. Ghosts can walk through walls of any thickness easily (though they may not always see where they're going), and could go through the entire planet provided something related to their Purpose isn't keeping them in one spot.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2020-04-30, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011