MitD XIV: High In Protean

[Peelee]

...can you link to that? The "tower scene" is the Escape, right? I don't see how a violent thrust would do anything?

No, the Escape is the Escape. The Tower Scene is MitD punching Miko and horse through the wall and a fair distance away from the tower, which Violent Thrust presumably would explain quite well (don't know stats on Violent Thrust).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

No, the Escape is the Escape. The Tower Scene is MitD punching Miko and horse through the wall and a fair distance away from the tower, which Violent Thrust presumably would explain quite well (don't know stats on Violent Thrust).

The problem with the violent thrust is that it does not involve hitting at all, never mind lightly. Bit weird for MitD to propose a game of hitting lightly and then proceeding to think at Miko really hard until psionic energy blasts her through a wall.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

The problem with the violent thrust is that it does not involve hitting at all, never mind lightly. Bit weird for MitD to propose a game of hitting lightly and then proceeding to think at Miko really hard until psionic energy blasts her through a wall.

Grey Wolf

Miko was the one who proposed it, but MitD accepted the terms on their face, so that point stands. hey, look at me being wrong.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Miko was the one who proposed it, but MitD accepted the terms on their face, so that point stands.

What? No, MitD is the one that proposed the game. Miko is the one that decides to throw the game.

Grey Wolf

[Kastor]

I'd like to submit my formal guess for the ANB. The older DS2e version, specifically.

[Peelee]

What? No, MitD is the one that proposed the game. Miko is the one that decides to throw the game.

Grey Wolf

Huh. I'd always had that backwards for some reason.

[Quebbster]

Stomping Tantrum didn't exist at the time, though Earthquake and Stomp did. Because MitD was thought through at about 2004, and the relevant page happens in...2007? If we assume it was Snorlax, we should be working with Generation 3 and possibly Generation 4 information.

Munchlax (Snorlax' pre-evolution) is from generation 4. But it's not like the MitD being smaller than he should be was brought up from the start so it's a minor quibble.

...can you link to that? The "tower scene" is the Escape, right? I don't see how a violent thrust would do anything?

The Escape scene does happen in a Tower as well, so the confusion is understandable. Maybe the Tower scene should be renamed to something a little more specific? "The watchtower scene" or "The hitting game" could both work.

[Squire Doodad]

Munchlax (Snorlax' pre-evolution) is from generation 4. But it's not like the MitD being smaller than he should be was brought up from the start so it's a minor quibble.

Munchlax in particular was actually one of the Gen 4 Pokemon that were "revealed" prior to Gen 4, and it in particular was Snorlax's preevolution, so it works out oddly enough. This does assume MitD had evolved into Snorlax or was born as one prior to joining RC and co give that Munchlax evolves via friendship, has comparatively limited abilities, and Pokemon evolve suddenly instead of slowly growing.

On a related note, size variance do exist for Pokemon, with Magikarp in particular having vast gulfs in potential size recorded in-game. A particularly small Snorlax could exist.

The Escape scene does happen in a Tower as well, so the confusion is understandable. Maybe the Tower scene should be renamed to something a little more specific? "The watchtower scene" or "The hitting game" could both work.

Oh, I just wasn't thinking. Calling it "the hitting game" might work but "The Tower Scene" is already specific enough.

[Quartz]

It's 20 feet tall, and 40 feet long (and has the 10-foot reach of a long Huge creature instead of the 15-foot reach of a tall Huge creature).

This can be finessed by the Dungeonbred or Minimal templates.

Another huge problem for the ANB is its unacceptably low strength.

That can be covered by Psychoportation - it doesn't actually throw Miko that far but rather teleports (psychoports) her - or Psychokinesis - the Monster moves her telekinetically. The hole in the wall is the Rule of Funny.

[Schroeswald]

That can be covered by Psychoportation - it doesn't actually throw Miko that far but rather teleports (psychoports) her - or Psychokinesis - the Monster moves her telekinetically. The hole in the wall is the Rule of Funny.

Both of those do not explain that at all though. He was trying to hit her, not teleport her (which does not match any evidence of what actually happened, she flew through a wall clearly and ignoring that completely ignores what happens) or just move her, a telekenetic shove sort of fits because it is somewhat like hitting her, but moving her or teleporting her is not that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Both of those do not explain that at all though. He was trying to hit her, not teleport her (which does not match any evidence of what actually happened, she flew through a wall clearly and ignoring that completely ignores what happens) or just move her, a telekenetic shove sort of fits because it is somewhat like hitting her, but moving her or teleporting her is not that.

And like with any template, it just comes down to effectively say "let's pretend there were no clues in this scene" since any creature can supplement their lack of actual fitness for the scene with this template. Or With the Legendary or Paragon, if you want to go with the more direct "add 10 to the strength score the creature has".

Grey Wolf

[Joerg]

Let me put it like this: MitD is currently, barely, Medium sized, almost tall enough to be Large, but not quite there. His eyes, however, are the size of an ogre's, which is a Large creature. If I show you a creature on the verge of Large, with Large eyes, and I tell you it is not fully grown, what is more plausible, that it is not quite full grown and might have another two feet more height to gain (so about the same growth from a 12 year of to an adult human), or that MitD is 1/8th his full grown size (i.e. the same proportion as an 18 week human fetus to a grown man) and will gain some 50 feet in height before he is full grown?

The clues are not "is not quite fully grown", but "my father was big" and "so small, though". To me, that doesn't sound like there are just two feet missing, it sounds like lampshading that the MitD is one size category smaller than listed. So I would not consider medium size creatures any more and I find huge to be more plausible than large.

[Doug Lampert]

Creatures that increase in size categories typically have different stats for those size categories. I can't recall off the top of my head, but I would wager that for any/all of those creatures, the smaller size category stats would make it a poor fit for the feats it displays.

Smaller size category reduces strength by 8 per size category for juvenile and adolescent forms of giants and has a similar effect for dragons. In the case of dragons the strength loss is typically spread over multiple age categories.

[InvisibleBison]

Telekinesis's violent thrust. As I said earlier, even the person who came up with the math for that scene said it was the best explanation.

Except that's not "hitting", because it doesn't involve any physical contact, nor is it "as lightly as possible", because it's not the lowest level spell a ha-naga can cast.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Except that's not "hitting", because it doesn't involve any physical contact, nor is it "as lightly as possible", because it's not the lowest level spell a ha-naga can cast.

There was also no spell casting involved, what with it being a hitting game.

The clues are not "is not quite fully grown", but "my father was big" and "so small, though"

According to my 5-yo, I'm big. If they didn't see me or any other human again, they might still remember me as big once they're older. And a 12 year old is so small compared to an adult.

it sounds like lampshading that the MitD is one size category smaller than listed.

So you agree, then, that MitD's species is Large, since MitD is currently Medium?

Grey Wolf

[Quartz]

Both of those do not explain that at all though.

I disagree. In fact, they work very well, given how little he hurt her. Work backwards instead of forwards. Look at what happened: the Monster moved Miko to outside the tower. That is what's called a Special Effect (SFX). The mechanics of the SFX are another question. It could have been a huge punch, it could have been a teleport, it could have been a telekinesis effect. They all achieve the same result.

[Jasdoif]

The problem with the violent thrust is that it does not involve hitting at all, never mind lightly. Bit weird for MitD to propose a game of hitting lightly and then proceeding to think at Miko really hard until psionic energy blasts her through a wall.

More significantly, it isn't enough. True, the distance and the cartoon-cutout effect are for narrative/comedic effect; but if the point of the scene is to show MitD is powerful by knocking them through the wall, he should be able to break the wall; and D&D does model that sort of thing.

In order for telekinesis' violent thrust to even be capable of doing enough damage to actually break through a typical masonry wall (hardness 8 and 90 hit points, so 98 damage), it'd have to throw a "hard, dense object" that weighs 425 pounds...exceeding the spell's 375 pound upper limit.

Its psionic cousin, telekinetic thrust, has a malleable limit....But it doesn't change that Miko is certainly not an object, much less one hard and dense like a boulder, that weighs 425 pounds. To say nothing of the other implications; such as that telekinetic thrust is used for...telekinetically thrusting. I could accept (with an undisclosed number of eye rolls) that MitD might normally use telekinesis' sustained force to interact with his environment due to some undisclosed limitation of his limbs, and goofed up when he tried to tap Miko and Windstrider; but throwing stuff is all telekinetic thrust does.


Meanwhile, a Strength score of 32 is sufficient for a Large creature to be capable of breaking through that masonry wall with sheer force.

[Schroeswald]

I disagree. In fact, they work very well, given how little he hurt her. Work backwards instead of forwards. Look at what happened: the Monster moved Miko to outside the tower. That is what's called a Special Effect (SFX). The mechanics of the SFX are another question. It could have been a huge punch, it could have been a teleport, it could have been a telekinesis effect. They all achieve the same result.

That's not at all what that means though. The MitD didn't try to move Miko out of the tower, he tried to hit her as lightly as possible, so whatever is done, it has to fit the definition of hitting her, and it cannot be teleporting because she also flew out of the tower through a wall, thats just the thing that happened in the comic.

[ArkenBrony]

...can you link to that? The "tower scene" is the Escape, right? I don't see how a violent thrust would do anything?

the tower scene is when the mitd knocks miko and her horse through the tower wall

edit: whoops, i thought the last page was the most updated and missed a whole page of updates. please ignore...

[Squire Doodad]

According to my 5-yo, I'm big. If they didn't see me or any other human again, they might still remember me as big once they're older. And a 12 year old is so small compared to an adult.

Grey Wolf

It's kind of weird to put things into perspective and realize that many of the people on these forums have kids and stuff. Heck, there's probably some people who have kids who hadn't started dating their future spouse when they first joined the forum.

This is completely unrelated to MitD, but is still fascinating to think about how the passage of time works and how little we pay attention to it.

[Darth Paul]

The Escape scene does happen in a Tower as well, so the confusion is understandable. Maybe the Tower scene should be renamed to something a little more specific? "The watchtower scene" or "The hitting game" could both work.

Formal proposal on the deck:

Next time we have a vote on anything else, let's also include this. (There's no rush, though, so let's put it off until we have something more major.)

Formal proposal for a vote to rename "The Tower Scene" as "The Hitting Game".

Unless Grey_Wolf_c feels this would be a good idea and that it's within their purvey to make such a change unilaterally.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It's kind of weird to put things into perspective and realize that many of the people on these forums have kids and stuff. Heck, there's probably some people who have kids who hadn't started dating their future spouse when they first joined the forum.

This is completely unrelated to MitD, but is still fascinating to think about how the passage of time works and how little we pay attention to it.

Cross-pollinating from the random banter thread:

I'm so much older than y'all it's not even funny. But I didn't truly feel old until we started to get OotS readers that are younger than the comic.

---

Formal proposal on the deck:

Next time we have a vote on anything else, let's also include this. (There's no rush, though, so let's put it off until we have something more major.)

Formal proposal for a vote to rename "The Tower Scene" as "The Hitting Game".

Unless Grey_Wolf_c feels this would be a good idea and that it's within their purvey to make such a change unilaterally.

We've been using the name Tower Scene for years without issue, and it'd be a pain and a half to fix in the OP, so not only do I not believe I should do that unilaterally, I'd be against it if it came to a vote. That said, don't let anyone stop them - I've been overridden plenty of times (heck, that's what happened to the original name of the FBS category), so by all means.

Grey Wolf

[Darth Paul]

We've been using the name Tower Scene for years without issue, and it'd be a pain and a half to fix in the OP, so not only do I not believe I should do that unilaterally, I'd be against it if it came to a vote.

Grey Wolf

Fair enough. Unless someone else seconds the proposal, consider it withdrawn.

I'm so much older than y'all it's not even funny. But I didn't truly feel old until we started to get OotS readers that are younger than the comic.

Grey Wolf

I have no idea how old anybody around here is, but I was born during the LBJ administration.

[Quebbster]

According to my 5-yo, I'm big. If they didn't see me or any other human again, they might still remember me as big once they're older. And a 12 year old is so small compared to an adult.

My 12 year old son is around 15 centimeters (half a foot for those stuck with the Imperial system) taller than his mother. It's obvious he inherited my body type though so he probably has another 25-30 centimeters (a foot or slightly less) of growth in him.
It's important to remember that body mass increases three times faster than length though so going from 120 cm/4' to 180 cm/6' in length means your body mass almost quadruples.

(The son in question was around 5 years old when I started reading the comic by the way)

[Squire Doodad]

I have no idea how old anybody around here is, but I was born during the LBJ administration.

People born after 9/11 are turning 18 and older now, but we're getting off track here

Back on the lack of tower issue: I just got mixed up for a sec between the tower and the escape scene, it's not a big deal. I'd say the tower scene's name is good enough as is.

Also I agree that the tower scene is not depicting MitD casting a spell to push Miko out, as he established the premise himself and definitely was trying to "hit". I'm okay with telekinesis as an idea if the given candidate largely uses telekinesis instead of actual limbs, assuming someone has the stats to back it up.

[Lombard]

He/she was scared or stressed out (shown by eyes in earlier panel) and Wilder powers were activated. The powers he/she doesn't really understand and is not self aware of at that point in time.

Or maybe mitd is really a pile of goo and the eyes are a false flag, ymmv

[Quebbster]

Or maybe mitd is really a pile of goo and the eyes are a false flag, ymmv

We haven't really discussed the Carbosilicate Amorph in a while...

[Hardcore]

Fair enough. Unless someone else seconds the proposal, consider it withdrawn.



I have no idea how old anybody around here is, but I was born during the LBJ administration.

Ditto. Or from another view point: the government of Premier Tager Erlander.

[Schroeswald]

We haven't really discussed the Carbosilicate Amorph in a while...

‘Tis because it’s not that, I give approximately 0% chance of it happening (fight me one person who has it is a guess in Crusher’s post).

[Quebbster]

Ditto. Or from another view point: the government of Premier Tager Erlander.

Fälldin 2 here, though I assume I was conceived during the brief reign of Ola Ullsten.