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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    A creature from another fantasy world would definitely cause various reactions in the cirkus public.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyEowyn View Post
    I.E., the MITD’s inability to replicate Wish isn’t related to what MITD is, it’s related to who MITD is.
    A), thank you for your gracious and well-thought-out reply, and B), I have no bone to pick with any of that. Other than, of course, that it fits equally well with shape-shifting into a form that can use Teleport.

    I'll go so far as to say you've hit upon a key element of the MitD's whole story arc; what he is, isn't nearly as important as who he is. The way you phrased that summed it up perfectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
    Namer Of MitD Threads
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    A), thank you for your gracious and well-thought-out reply, and B), I have no bone to pick with any of that. Other than, of course, that it fits equally well with shape-shifting into a form that can use Teleport.

    I'll go so far as to say you've hit upon a key element of the MitD's whole story arc; what he is, isn't nearly as important as who he is. The way you phrased that summed it up perfectly.
    Thank you!

    My issues with Teleport are the need to have a type of teleportation that a) teleports O-Chul but not MITD (I find the “dimensionally locked MITD” theory a bit of a stretch) and b) sends O-Chul directly to safety (literally right on top of Hinjo) despite neither MITD nor O-Chul knowing where that is. Even if one goes with the idea that MITD read V’s mind to know where to send O-Chul (despite having no familiarity with V), that wouldn’t be likely to send O-Chul to Hinjo’s exact location at that moment (which V didn’t know).

    Whereas a Wish like “I want O-Chul to escape and be safe and with his friends” could plausibly result in that outcome.

    Happy to listen to other explanations for this, though.
    Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2020-05-06 at 02:05 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyEowyn View Post
    Thank you!

    My issues with Teleport are the need to have a type of teleportation that a) teleports O-Chul but not MITD (I find the “dimensionally locked MITD” theory a bit of a stretch) and b) sends O-Chul directly to safety (literally right on top of Hinjo) despite neither MITD nor O-Chul knowing where that is. Even if one goes with the idea that MITD read V’s mind to know where to send O-Chul (despite having no familiarity with V), that wouldn’t be likely to send O-Chul to Hinjo’s exact location at that moment (which V didn’t know).

    Whereas a Wish like “I want O-Chul to escape and be safe and with his friends” could plausibly result in that outcome.

    Happy to listen to other explanations for this, though.
    I don't see how Dimensionally locked MITD is a stretch: if that is indeed the explanation, it was properly foreshadowed.

    V just came from that exact spot - that's where they dropped them all off. All it takes is some ability to read the source of a teleport, or to send V back to where they were just at. Or a lucky roll in the Mishap table due to False destination, with probability proving itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-05-06 at 02:15 PM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    I have what may be a dumb question. The Athasian Nightmare Beast is listed as published before strip #100, but the MM2 featuring the "nightmare beast" came out in 2002, and that was a 3e port of a much earlier existing creature (I couldn't track down a PDF, but all signs point to the "Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium I:Terrors of the Desert", published in 1992). This seems well before strip 100, so why is the consensus that Rich would have to have gotten an advance copy to know about the ANB?

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovix View Post
    I have what may be a dumb question. The Athasian Nightmare Beast is listed as published before strip #100, but the MM2 featuring the "nightmare beast" came out in 2002, and that was a 3e port of a much earlier existing creature (I couldn't track down a PDF, but all signs point to the "Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium I:Terrors of the Desert", published in 1992). This seems well before strip 100, so why is the consensus that Rich would have to have gotten an advance copy to know about the ANB?
    Because the Athasian Nightmare Beast does not have the same stats as the Nightmare Beast from MM2 (the latter can be found in section 3e). As I understand it, they both are updates of the same 2nd ed athasian creature, but they are different in 3e.

    Grey Wolf
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I don't see how Dimensionally locked MITD is a stretch: if that is indeed the explanation, it was properly foreshadowed.
    I would argue there was a second bit of foreshadowing, if a bit more subtle.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I would argue there was a second bit of foreshadowing, if a bit more subtle.
    Why that one and not this one?

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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Why that one and not this one?

    Grey Wolf
    Specifically calling attention to both the effect and that V missed. More that last one, really. It underscores the miss against Xykon that could have hit MITD.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-05-06 at 02:46 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Because the Athasian Nightmare Beast does not have the same stats as the Nightmare Beast from MM2 (the latter can be found in section 3e). As I understand it, they both are updates of the same 2nd ed athasian creature, but they are different in 3e.

    Grey Wolf
    Is it possible that MitD is a 2e Nightmare Beast or ported separately from MM2? It's possible that Rich was going off the abilities it had in 2e, and assuming that the 3e version would be pretty similar. Especially, given that the linked 3e stats are from a forum post, not an official sourcebook, Rich might have looked for a 3e port, and, not having found a proper one, used the original instead. There's
    precedent for older monsters still existing in the world, so I don't know if having a 3.5 stat block is necessarily a requirement for a creature to be present in OOTSworld, especially as a rare specimen.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovix View Post
    Is it possible that MitD is a 2e Nightmare Beast or ported separately from MM2? It's possible that Rich was going off the abilities it had in 2e, and assuming that the 3e version would be pretty similar.
    That'd be a creature created by Rich for this comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovix View Post
    Especially, given that the linked 3e stats are from a forum post, not an official sourcebook,
    It was a forum post by an author of the forthcoming sourcebook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovix View Post
    Rich might have looked for a 3e port, and, not having found a proper one, used the original instead.
    There was a proper one, the one in MM2. If that one didn't suit his purposes (and it probably doesn't), he might have spoken to the people in charge of the Dark Sun sourcebook, and got an advanced copy. How far-fetched someone finds that is what falls under the con in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vovix View Post
    There's
    precedent for older monsters still existing in the world, so I don't know if having a 3.5 stat block is necessarily a requirement for a creature to be present in OOTSworld, especially as a rare specimen.
    It is if Rich intended the creature to be a 3e creature. Otherwise, he'd use the 2nd ed version, such as the ones in the cave.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-05-06 at 07:29 PM.
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
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    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I don't see how Dimensionally locked MITD is a stretch: if that is indeed the explanation, it was properly foreshadowed.
    Grey Wolf
    I would argue there was a second bit of foreshadowing, if a bit more subtle.
    I just want to laugh at this for a sec because it's inadvertently suggesting that the first Dimensional Anchor V fired went up, traveled across a large stretch of ocean, alllll the way to Gobbotopia and hit MitD.
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2020-05-06 at 10:02 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I just want to laugh at this for a sec because it's inadvertently suggesting that the first Dimensional Anchor V fired went up, traveled across a large stretch of ocean, alllll the way to Gobbotopia and hit MitD.
    It's what, 1 in a quadrillion? That means there is literally no chance it didn't happen!
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    It's what, 1 in a quadrillion? That means there is literally no chance it didn't happen!
    It's the little things that make firing random non-damaging spells with sizable range in the middle of nowhere worth doing.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    It's the little things that make firing random non-damaging spells with sizable range in the middle of nowhere worth doing.
    By the Laws of Comedy, any random shot fired in the middle of nowhere must hit a bird offstage, which will make a humorous squawk. The fact that nobody heard this just goes to show how far away it was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
    Namer Of MitD Threads
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    [furiously scribbles notes on how Darth Paul is the MitD]

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    That such a thing is actually relevant to the thread...
    Last edited by Hardcore; 2020-05-07 at 04:39 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I don't see how Dimensionally locked MITD is a stretch: if that is indeed the explanation, it was properly foreshadowed.

    V just came from that exact spot - that's where they dropped them all off. All it takes is some ability to read the source of a teleport, or to send V back to where they were just at. Or a lucky roll in the Mishap table due to False destination, with probability proving itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot.

    Grey Wolf
    Considering Julia managed to get back in the story with the aid of a magical track... I like this idea a lot.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    By the Laws of Comedy, any random shot fired in the middle of nowhere must hit a bird offstage, which will make a humorous squawk. The fact that nobody heard this just goes to show how far away it was.
    "5 years after the blunderbuss trick, when Houdini had already been dead for a while, a random janitor seems to hear a bird squawk on the stage."
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    By the Laws of Comedy, any random shot fired in the middle of nowhere must hit a bird offstage, which will make a humorous squawk. The fact that nobody heard this just goes to show how far away it was.
    And eventually we did hear a humorous squawk, right during the Escape scene! Tell me that a bird squawking Escape would be humorous, and thus the MitD saying Escape is also humorous.
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    And eventually we did hear a humorous squawk, right during the Escape scene! Tell me that a bird squawking Escape would be humorous, and thus the MitD saying Escape is also humorous.
    You can make anything humerus if you have spine enough, assuming no one has a bone to pick with you
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    You can make anything humerus if you have spine enough, assuming no one has a bone to pick with you
    What a skullful play on words. I suppose having to come up with these is an occipitalpational hazard around here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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    [furiously scribbles notes on how Darth Paul is the MitD]

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    What a skullful play on words. I suppose having to come up with these is an occipitalpational hazard around here.
    A bit off topic, but this whole shutdown has apparently gotten a few creative juices flowing; there's talk of a new show they're going to do on Broadway once it's safe. All the dialogue is going to be puns. Every single line, no exceptions.




    It's going to be a play on words.

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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    annoyed Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    A bit off topic, but this whole shutdown has apparently gotten a few creative juices flowing; there's talk of a new show they're going to do on Broadway once it's safe. All the dialogue is going to be puns. Every single line, no exceptions.




    It's going to be a play on words.
    I hate you, this is the most evil thing I have ever read, you are pure evil and have just brought shame onto every dragon that exists and has ever existed.
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    d20 what is xycon's pet?

    any ideas? I'm all ears, so please post!

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: what is xycon's pet?

    I believe this is the thread you're looking for.

    https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...igh-In-Protean

    Briefly, Giant (the author) has said that it is possible to guess what MITD is--it is not a completely homebrewed thing that Rich Burlew made up (at least not for this purpose.)

    This is all from memory, so I may miss a detail:
    MITD was captured by Stereotypical Great White Hunters, who were very excited to see a very young specimen of MITD's type. MITD surprised them by talking (or was it talking in Common?).

    Xykon gave MITD orders to swallow Redcloak whole (killing Redcloak) either when the Plan was complete, or if Redcloak ever betrayed Xykon.

    I was about to start looking up references, but instead:
    https://oots.fandom.com/wiki/Monster...ness#Biography

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: what is xycon's pet?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbragg View Post
    I believe this is the thread you're looking for.

    https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...igh-In-Protean
    Alternatively, they meant the actual pet a sorcerer is entitled to as a class feature (just like V has Blackwing), in which case, it seems likely he traded it for metamagic abilities (specifically, the ability to metamagic faster than as a full action).

    Grey Wolf
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: what is xycon's pet?

    Barky is Xykon's childhood dog.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: what is xycon's pet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Barky is Xykon's childhood dog.
    Yes, but what breed?
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  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I hate you, this is the most evil thing I have ever read, you are pure evil and have just brought shame onto every dragon that exists and has ever existed.
    Even Smaug?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
    Namer Of MitD Threads
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    [furiously scribbles notes on how Darth Paul is the MitD]

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: MitD XIV: High In Protean

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    Even Smaug?
    ESPECIALLY Smaug.
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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