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2020-05-01, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
[3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
What is the maximum number of hp possible at 1st level while sleeping?
Rules:
Any +0 level adjustment race printed by WotC.
One hit die races only
No templates
25 point buy
Up to 2 flaws
Up to 2 traits
No Dragon magazine
No dragonwrought epic feats
No taint bonus feats
No DCS to turn proficiencies into additional feats
No Dragonborn (that must be accomplished in-game for 1,000gp of supplies)
Spells must have at least 8 hour duration to be considered active
Starting equipment average by class (example: barbarians get 4d4 x 10gp, 100gp average)
Is the maximum 36?
Daelkyr Halfblood bear totem barbarian 1
Str 14, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8
Feats: toughness x4, symbiont mastery
Flaws: inattentive, unreactive
Traits: slow
Starting hp: 12+4 (Con)+12 (toughness)+2 (symbiont mastery)+5 (breed leech)+1 (slow trait) = 36 hp
Can I add anything to improve this?
Thank you for all of the help do far! 36 is way better than I was expecting.Last edited by TallerSpine; 2020-05-05 at 07:52 AM.
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2020-05-01, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
For a slight improvement, you can replace Toughness with Dauntless, from p. 37 of the Player's Guide to Faerûn. Dauntless gives you 5 hit points instead of 3, and it's available to orcs.
That gets you a grand total of two more hit points, but at least it's a net positive.
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2020-05-01, 11:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Austin TX
- Gender
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Old Dragonwrought Kobold with Epic Toughness.
Flaw: Dragonwrought
Flaw: Epic Tpughness
First: Epic Toughness
Taint: Epic Toughness x6
Elder Evil: DCS Epic Toughness
Faustian: Epic Toughness x2
Racial: DCS Epic Toughness x2
Paladin(so you can get Pazuzu wish chain for the DCS): Epic Toughness x4(from the free proficiency feats)
So that’s Epic Toughness x17?
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2020-05-02, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Kinda depends on what all you consider to be "cheating". Lots of things could be done to a lvl 1 character in-universe that would give them phenomenal HP without altering their level.
Case in point, is kobold epic feat nonsense kosher in your book, OP?
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2020-05-02, 12:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
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2020-05-02, 12:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Mongrelfolk get +4 Con.
And if you handwave the 1,000gp cost, you can add Dragonborn to any race for an extra +2 Con.
So that brings us up to 24 Con pre-cheese.Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2020-05-02 at 12:09 AM.
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2020-05-02, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
I appreciate the effort. I am looking for optimized rather than broken. DM says true dragons have twelve age categories. True dragon old age is a different age category than dragonwrought kobold old age, so only true dragons can take epic feats at old age category.
And taint and the DCS shenanigans seems a bit over the top. But cool to know this is technically possible! Lol.Last edited by TallerSpine; 2020-05-02 at 06:57 AM.
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2020-05-02, 07:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Very cool! I added that in.
Agreed. I added additional rules.
Great point. I also forgot I could take toughness more than once. That gives another +3
Great point! Unfortunately, the DM nixed Dragonborn, and the +1 hp from better con +3 hp toughness is worse than the +5 hp dauntless.
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2020-05-02, 08:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Originally Posted by Buufreak
Replace the improved toughness with dauntless to net +4?
Originally Posted by TallerSpine
Very cool! I added that in.
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2020-05-02, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
With PunPun and Epic Toughness banned, a Symbiot character ought to be in the 30s.
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2020-05-02, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Tula, Russia
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Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Replace Water Orc with Human, take one more Toughness = +2 hp
Maeluth (Fiend Folio) gets +4 Con; check if Lesser Maeluth is OK in general, and if they would qualify for Dauntless
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2020-05-02, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2020-05-02, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
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2020-05-02, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2020-05-02, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Originally Posted by Buufreak
And? This is specifically for a 1hd character.
Now, it’s up to the player and the DM if they want to disregard that, but taking Dauntless twice at first level is against both the spirit and the letter of the rules. Ultimately it’s up to the OP if he wants to do things differently.
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2020-05-02, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Palanan, you mentioned replacing Toughness with Dauntless for a +2hp net gain. Buufreak suggested keeping Toughness and replacing Improved Toughness with Dauntless instead for a net +4 hp gain. I had forgotten that I could take toughness multiple times, so I combined both of your ideas. Thank you both for that.
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2020-05-02, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
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2020-05-03, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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2020-05-03, 07:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2020-05-03, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Tula, Russia
- Gender
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2020-05-03, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2020-05-04, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Is there any published alchemy equipment that could give a character temp hp that would last at least 8 hours (worth no more than 100gp)?
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2020-05-04, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- California
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Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Not a true add but a work around.
Take a look at die hard feat. You get to stay up and fighting into negative numbers of hit points depending on constitution
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2020-05-04, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2020-05-04, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Indianapolis
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Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
The raw number won't be so high, but you can get a probably more useful character with psionics. Ideally, you want to be a race with a Con bonus and a bonus feat. Unfortunately I don't think any exist, not within the bounds of the material set by original post. (A Con bonus and a bonus Psionic feat would also work, but again I don't believe any exist.)
Be a Psychic Warrior. You get a class bonus feat, your level 1 feat, 2 flaw feats, and your racial bonus feat. Make 'em all [Psionic] feats. Take Psychic Body then whatever (Psionic Weapon, Overchannel, Talented, couple of Expanded Knowledges.. heck just take Psionic Talent 4 times to get enough power points to constantly use your powers.) Psychic Body is worth 2 HP then another 2 for every other [Psionic] Feat, so that's 10 HP from your feats. 8 from your base HD, 4 assuming Con 18 makes 22. 23 if you're willing to be Slow. Notably fewer than the symbiont route - that Breed Leech/free Symbiont Mastery is hard to beat - but on the plus side you get to have feats that actually do things.
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2020-05-05, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Alternative with a standard race:
Human generic warrior 1
Str 14, Dex 11, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8
Feats: toughness, toughness, toughness, toughness, dauntless
Flaws: inattentive, unreactive
Traits: slow
Starting hp: 10 +4 (Con) +12 (toughness)+5 (dauntless) +1 (slow trait) = 32 hp
You can get the Daelkyr Halfblood to 34 HP if you make him a generic warrior 1 to grab another Toughness feat (net +1 vs. barbarian).
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2020-05-05, 07:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2020-05-05, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
A bear totem barbarian (UA variant) gets Toughness as bonus feat at level 1, for 15 base hit points. That should get you +2 compared to the current build.
For what it's worth, a crusader will be far tougher than a generic warrior or bear totem barbarian, between Martial Spirit and Steely Resolve. But I guess that's not the point here .Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2020-05-05, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2020-05-05, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Austin TX
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Re: [3.5] Maximum hp possible at 1st level
Elven Generalist Wizard to double up Magic Jar at level one to get a new body with however much HP a lvl 1 can manage to jar into.
Similarly, Familiar Form is less expensive, slap on Extra Familiar, dismiss(so no longer a magical beast)and get it Awakened for up to 5HD from being a small monkey. This is fuzzy since it is suggested that even when dismissed or their wizards die, familiars retain their abilities such as in the Tibbit.