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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Vinyadan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Episode 3 for me is an odd case, because Episode 2 had irked me so much, that it emotionally completely removed me from the prequels. So I didn't care at all for what would happen in 3, especially since it was a foregone conclusion. I have very little memory of it, in spite of having watched it recently, too; I suspect that an overcomplicated plot that gives weight to the wrong events may be the reason. The landing scene was very good, that I give. For the rest, it had all the weaknesses of the previous prequels, plus it was waaaaaay too long*. So we have scenes that drag on forever, lots of talking, the unconvincing jedi council, told-not-shown, a villain (Grievous) out of nowhere, and a bad introduction that leaves you wondering what's going on (because I think the title crawl is there to look impressive; you shouldn't be forced to read it, the OT worked fine anyway).
    However, unlike ep. 2, I feel that ep. 3 can be saved by fan cuts. Ep. 2 has the whole part on the red planet which is imho irredeemable.

    *apparently the length is similar to that of the other prequels, which is another reason why I find ep. 1 better than the others, as it didn't feel nearly as dragging on as ep. 2 and 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Episode 3 for me is an odd case, because Episode 2 had irked me so much, that it emotionally completely removed me from the prequels. So I didn't care at all for what would happen in 3, especially since it was a foregone conclusion. I have very little memory of it, in spite of having watched it recently, too; I suspect that an overcomplicated plot that gives weight to the wrong events may be the reason. The landing scene was very good, that I give. For the rest, it had all the weaknesses of the previous prequels, plus it was waaaaaay too long*. So we have scenes that drag on forever, lots of talking, the unconvincing jedi council, told-not-shown, a villain (Grievous) out of nowhere, and a bad introduction that leaves you wondering what's going on (because I think the title crawl is there to look impressive; you shouldn't be forced to read it, the OT worked fine anyway).
    However, unlike ep. 2, I feel that ep. 3 can be saved by fan cuts. Ep. 2 has the whole part on the red planet which is imho irredeemable.

    *apparently the length is similar to that of the other prequels, which is another reason why I find ep. 1 better than the others, as it didn't feel nearly as dragging on as ep. 2 and 3.
    Revenge suffers from one of the biggest sins in film making: Requiring the audience to watch external material to understand what is going on.

    Episode 2 ends on the first day of the Clone Wars. Episode 3 begins near the end of said wars. Palpatine is in the process of getting kidnapped, but the actual kidnapping happens before the movie starts. So does the attack on Coruscant, the introduction of General Grievous, and everything important for making the movie work. To get all of this information you have to watch the first Clone Wars animated series. Which you would only have seen if you were watching Cartoon Network and caught it when it was coming on in 2 minute episodes between shows.

    If you didn't do that very specific thing you get a couple sentences of title crawl.

    The really damning thing about the new trilogy is that it feels like there are series you are supposed to be watching between those movies to understand what's going on. As far as I'm aware, these do not exist. They just gave up the pretense and gave a couple sentences of title crawl.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Revenge suffers from one of the biggest sins in film making: Requiring the audience to watch external material to understand what is going on.

    Episode 2 ends on the first day of the Clone Wars. Episode 3 begins near the end of said wars. Palpatine is in the process of getting kidnapped, but the actual kidnapping happens before the movie starts. So does the attack on Coruscant, the introduction of General Grievous, and everything important for making the movie work. To get all of this information you have to watch the first Clone Wars animated series. Which you would only have seen if you were watching Cartoon Network and caught it when it was coming on in 2 minute episodes between shows.

    If you didn't do that very specific thing you get a couple sentences of title crawl.

    The really damning thing about the new trilogy is that it feels like there are series you are supposed to be watching between those movies to understand what's going on. As far as I'm aware, these do not exist. They just gave up the pretense and gave a couple sentences of title crawl.
    I read the book before watching the film (admittedly in a non-local library and rather rushed), which probably helped. I did enjoy it.

    Regarding the review:
    In my opinion the review is another notch better. Although still probably nearer the good comment mark than a good review. For starters the English grammar is still a bit ropey (but much better than say my French*) and it could have done with improvements to the structure. After that there is more depth you can go into (I have some thoughts for E7).

    On the earlier post, I'm pretty sure Jango is explicitly chosen as one of a kind, in universe "perfect soldier", in novel "[Obi wan wondered] who was this man selected by Sifo-Dyas as the perfect source for a clone army". Obviously nobody is perfect, just occasionally close to it (sorry Pellee) and being a villain in a film is huge impediment to success. So I think that is right enough.

    *and even as a native english speaker/writer, I can often be unclear on these boards.
    Last edited by jayem; 2020-05-09 at 08:10 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Revenge suffers from one of the biggest sins in film making: Requiring the audience to watch external material to understand what is going on.

    Episode 2 ends on the first day of the Clone Wars. Episode 3 begins near the end of said wars. Palpatine is in the process of getting kidnapped, but the actual kidnapping happens before the movie starts. So does the attack on Coruscant, the introduction of General Grievous, and everything important for making the movie work. To get all of this information you have to watch the first Clone Wars animated series. Which you would only have seen if you were watching Cartoon Network and caught it when it was coming on in 2 minute episodes between shows.

    If you didn't do that very specific thing you get a couple sentences of title crawl.

    ...did they let LucasArt take over? Because that sounds like a puzzle from Grim Fandango.

    When I watched the Samurai Jack Clone Wars thing, many years later, I did enjoy that it finally explained what that all was about. Still, what the heck. I never even heard it mentioned back then.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Ok, now I'm going to post the original sequel Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope.

    Spoiler: My Thoughts On Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope
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    Princess Leia held hostage by the cruel Darth Vader in order to quell the rebellion against the Galactic Empire. Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, captain of the Millennium Falcon with the help of their droids, C-3PO and R2-D2 and the Wookie Chewbacca and Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi. They were on a rescue mission to save Princess Leia and the whole universe. What I like about the movie is the good storyline. The Special Effect was Good. They introduced Stormtroopers. I even like the part when Luke destroyed the Death Star with his X-Wing. What I don't like about the movie that Darth Vader kills Obi-Wan Kenobi. This is a very good movie and I really enjoy it. I'll give A New Hope 9 out of 10.
    Last edited by Bartmanhomer; 2020-05-09 at 11:24 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #156
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Bartmanhomer, you say didn't like how Obi-Wan Kenobi died. Do you think it would have been better if he died a different way, like fighting back against Darth Vader? Why do you think George Lucas wrote the story to have Obi-Wan die there?

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Bartmanhomer, you say didn't like how Obi-Wan Kenobi died. Do you think it would have been better if he died a different way, like fighting back against Darth Vader? Why do you think George Lucas wrote the story to have Obi-Wan die there?
    I actually like Obi-Wan Kenobi. He shouldn't have given up that easy to make a martyr out of himself.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Fun fact: you can see a lightsaber prop as it would look without aftereffects here: https://youtu.be/Yrj03H4V1n4?t=34 see Vader's white stick in the background?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Fun fact: you can see a lightsaber prop as it would look without aftereffects here: https://youtu.be/Yrj03H4V1n4?t=34 see Vader's white stick in the background?
    Actually, that's not the prop, that's messed up rotoscoping in the original cuts, which makes the blade appear white instead of red. The actual prop blade was not white, IIRC.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Actually, that's not the prop, that's messed up rotoscoping in the original cuts, which makes the blade appear white instead of red. The actual prop blade was not white, IIRC.
    It was "a rotating pole with movie screen material". Later on, they used different materials. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIefj6dOhnM
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-05-09 at 01:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Ok now I'm going to post Star Wars Episode 5: Empire Strikes Back.

    Spoiler: My Thoughts On Star Wars Episode 5: Empire Strikes Back
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    After the events of A New Hope The Rebel Alliance fight against the Imperial Forces in the planet Hoth by their AT-AT Walkers. Luke Skywalker visit to the planet Dagabra to search for Yoda the ways of the Forces. Then Luke fought against Darth Vader in Cloud City. This movie was great. What I like about this movie it has a great storyline. The Original Music Score was awesome. In this movie, they introduce Lando Calrissian. And the most dramatic part of the movie reveals that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker father. There was not one thing that I dislike this movie. The acting was wonderful. So is the directing and special effects. It's a perfect movie. I'll give Empire Strikes Back a 10 out of 10.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    I really, really, really liked both ep. iv and Empire Strikes Back. Back then, the one thing that puzzled me a bit was Ben's death. Not because he died -- he made it clear that he would transcend and become a saint -- but because of why he decided to die at that time instead of sometime else. That is a detail for which I only recently found a satisfying explanation, the fact that he was embroiled in a duel he probably wouldn't win and that the youngsters would have been captured if they waited for him to take off, so he cut it short for their sake.

    Otherwise, everything is wonderful. It's movies that feel old-fashioned, but, instead of being antiquated, end up speaking a universal language. I especially like how the Empire is presented, first with an immense ship gobbling up a smaller one like a shark with a goldfish, then with a huge black-clad half-samurai half-Nazi human-robot guy that kills POWs barehanded, then with Leia saying that the Empire is losing pieces because of a misplaced emphasis on a tight grip, and finally with the end of the Senate and blowing up a planet.

    This pretty much presents the whole of the setting, with a short history added by Ben that affirms that there is an alternative to the Empire. I feel that later films forgot to set up the pieces adequately, what with political systems in ep.1 or the lack of explanation concerning what the Order is fighting against, or where it even comes from, and whether resistance and republic are the same thing.

    The Hot battle, I think, shows a problem with its parallel at the beginning of 8. In Hot, we have some highly impressive yet unlikely mechanised horses or dogs advancing at slow pace towards the rebel base. In 8, we have some highly unlikely bombers advancing at low speed over a battleship.
    Why do the AT-AT work anyway within the film? Because they remain deadly. The rebels have nothing that works against them, except rope and a jedi, and there aren't enough ropes and jedi around, so the walkers win. They would look wasteful in our world, but in theirs they are terrifying (and they are both cool and symbolic, being invulnerable except to guile and stomping everything that gets within reach).
    The bombers instead are a flawed design AND get smashed because of it. As a result, they look so bad that they don't just strain belief for the fact that they were used, it's hard to believe that they exist in the first place, which undercuts Poe's failing and much of the following plot line.

    If the film shows the events in chronological order, then the bombers are much slower than B-29s and fly very low, about 100 m above the target. The slowness is very perceivable, and one can only wonder what their purpose was: dropping barrel bombs on undefended casinos?
    And, if the bombs use gravity within the ship to get pushed down, won't they all reach different speeds, since they will spend different amounts of time subjected to gravity, thus hitting each other once outside the ship? Is that why they have to fly low?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    I'm going to post Star Wars Episode 6: Return Of The Jedi later today.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I'm going to post Star Wars Episode 6: Return Of The Jedi later today.
    Put some time in it, how has Luke, Han and Leia changed, stayed the same? What things are now improved FX wise

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Ok, now I'm going to post Star Wars Episode 6: Return Of The Jedi.
    Spoiler: My Thoughts On Star Wars Episode 6: Return Of The Jedi
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    Luke Skywalker battles Jabba The Hutt and Darth Vader to save his comrades in the Rebel Alliance to disrupted the Galatic Empire in order to win the war. Han Solo and Princess Leia reaffirm their love and with the help of Wookie Chewbacca, the droids C-3PO, Lando Calrissian and the Ewoks, they managed to win the war and gain peace to the Universe. What I like about the Return Of The Jedi that they more the Death Star incomplete and more powerful than the first Death Star. There was a bit of romance with Princess Leia and Han Solo. Also, I like the part where Darth Vader throws Emperor Palpatine to the abyss where Darth Vader because good again. I also like at the end of the movie the spirits of the three Jedi Master appears for a short time. Also, I like the part where the Ewoks primitive traps smash the AT Walker. There was not one thing that I dislike the movie. The special effects were great. The acting and directing were superb. This movie was perfect to end the original trilogy. So I'll give Return Of The Jedi 10 out of 10.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    How did the spirit of Darth Vader look? Young or old?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    How did the spirit of Darth Vader look? Young or old?
    From the original, he looks old. From the remastered version, he looks young.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    From the original, he looks old. From the remastered version, he looks young.
    Which version are you reviewing?
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Which version are you reviewing?
    The original.

  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Cool, I like it best, probably because it's the first one I watched.

    Do you have any thoughts about the OT in general, why you like it so much? And what target do you think it has, I mean, what sort of people would like it? Or is it for a very wide audience?
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-05-11 at 02:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Cool, I like it best, probably because it's the first one I watched.
    It used to be my favorite when I was younger, as I got older I realized I liked the OG more and more, to the point that now it's my fave.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Cool, I like it best, probably because it's the first one I watched.

    Do you have any thoughts about the OT in general, why you like it so much? And what target do you think it has, I mean, what sort of people would like it? Or is it for a very wide audience?
    The original trilogy is nostalgic. It's an instant classic to my childhood.

    Ok, now I'm going to post Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens.

    Spoiler: My Thoughts on Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens
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    Many years after the events of the Return Of The Jedi, Rey, Finn, Poe, Han Solo are searching for the disappearance of Luke Skywalker which they're fighting by General Leia and the veterans of the Rebel Alliance who are against the First Order the successor of the Galatic Empire. What I like about the movie that they introduced new characters such as Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo-Ren, BB2 and old favourites, Han, Leia, Chewbacca, C-3PO and R2-D2. The only thing that I didn't like about the Force Awakens where Kylo-Ren kills Han Solo. I was like "what are you serious?" Kylo-Ren kills his own father. That part I didn't like. Although I did like the special effect, acting and directing. So I said it was a pretty good movie. I'll give The Force Awakens an 8 out of 10.


    Ok, now I'm going to post Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi.
    Spoiler: My Thoughts On Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi
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    Luke Skywalker solitary ended when he met a young woman named Rey which, Luke trained her the ways of the Force. Meanwhile, Kylo Ren and General Aux made an all-out assault against General Leia and the Rebel Alliance to reach supremacy by the First Order. What I like about The Last Jedi is that Rey and Kylo-Ren join forces to fight the First Order for a short period of the time. There was not the one thing that I disliked the movie. I like the special effects, acting and directing. It was a perfect movie. I'll give The Last Jedi 10 out of 10.


    Ok, now I'm going to post Star Wars Episode 9: The Rise Of Skywalker.

    Spoiler: My Thoughts On Star Wars Episode 9: The Rise Of Skywalker
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    When the Resistance discovered that Emperor Palpatine didn't die at the hands of Darth Vader, they race against time to know his whereabouts. Finn and Poe lead the Resistance in order to stop the First Order to form a new empire while Rey confronts Kylo Ren for the final showdown. What I like about The Rise Of Skywalker is there was a romantic scene of Rey kissed Kylo Ren and they work together to put an end of Emperor Palpatine. What I also like that the whole universe joins together to put an end of the First Order. There was not one thing that I dislike the movie. I like the special effects, directing and acting. So I say it was a very good movie to conclude the Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga. So I'll give The Rise Of Skywalker a 10 out of 10.
    Last edited by Bartmanhomer; 2020-05-14 at 12:11 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Just watched AotC myself, and oh my god had I forgotten just how dumb Anakin is in this. Not just the bad writing, but the actual character is a moron. Why do they let him go anywhere without supervision?

    Watching Yoda flip around was fun though. Its very Star Wars.

    Also, something I don't see a lot of people comment on, Darth Sideous does not get listed in the credits.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2020-05-14 at 02:58 PM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    While I liked the films, I think that the ST had some evident weaknesses. One is that it didn't put any effort in setting up the scene. I have no idea about who the 1st Order are, or the general status of the Republic. The other one was that it relied a lot on being meant for children, and so had some illogical scenarios that were very positive for Rey, like meeting BBQ and Finn AND having the Falcon right there AND being adopted by Han Solo AND helped by the Orange Alien AND turning out strong enough to resist and use the Force on Keylo. This ends up disassembling any feeling of danger, and probably ruined the fighting compared to the OT and PT (just to make a couple examples, the duels in the forest in 7 and Keylo getting beaten up by the knights in 9: those aren't sticks, they are blades and lasers!).

    8 has its own problems, like two useless plotlines (Poe and Finn), a childish approach to big problems (only weapons make you rich! Not fuel! And absolutely NOT CINEMA! ), and the bloody bombers. I liked Rey's story and the trippy moments, however, as well as the scenery, and I like that they were carried over into 9.

    I know there is some sort of hate or mistrust towards 9, but I liked it. It picked up everything it could and brought it to a coherent end, in spite of 8 seemingly hinting to a finale that would take a whole generation to be possible. It accepted that Rey had been portrayed like a tank and rolled with it. It made the temptation of the Dark Side far clearer than it was in 6. I didn't find that the finale made much sense (unless she read too much and took Ben's surname), and it's a pity that the final battle relies on a gimmick.

    About actors, they picked some very good ones, with Adam Driver obviously having already undergone a great breakthrough, and Daisy Ridley and John Boyega also deserving one. However, I think they completely screwed up with Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher. Luke did have a role, although controversial, but Han and Leia ended up as some kind of puppet figures of reverence that we were supposed to be awed by just seeing them. The truth is, in this trilogy, they were pretty damn boring, same goes for Lando. I wonder, if they had had the chance to film more with Carrie Fisher, maybe I would have had another mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    In fairness to the oddly-named Rise of Skywalker, it couldn't reasonably have been very good. But equally, it didn't really feel like Abrams even tried. To some extent, the experience of watching a film at home is different than watching it in the cinema; it's easier to get caught up in the moment at the cinema. I watched this thing at home. It lurched between dull and laughable.

    The Force Awakens is contrived and nonsensical, but Rise of Skywalker is on another level altogether. Take the scene where Chewie is captured. Rey has a feeling (ingenious writing, works every time) and wanders off. The side characters on Dagger-Map's ship send Chewie to tell Rey to come back. But some Knights of Ren are there! Chewie gets captured and loaded onto an Imperial transport nearby -- which flew in with no-one noticing (?). Chewie gets captured off-screen. Then the Knights of Ren and the Imperials leave without doing anything else (?). Rey destroys the transport. Later it turns that was another transport chilling in the desert that also landed and left immediately (?). I don't know what it was like in the cinema, but this was immensely confusing to watch. Not just in the "What a coincidence!" way, but also in the "I have no idea what these people are doing" way. Almost every scene was like this.

    There are so many bizarre decisions. With something like the "Hobbit" "films", stapling on Tauriel and her attendant love triangle on was transparently studio meddling, whereas with Rise of Skywalker I don't understand why these decisions were made. Did someone actually think that Final Order sounded cool, or is it a joke? I don't understand why there were so many McGuffins. I don't understand why force-healing is a thing now (I can't concieve of a good narrative or thematic reason for it). I don't understand why Kylo and Rey kissed. I don't know who thought framing the scene so it looked like the kiss killed Kylo was a good idea (it was funny, albeit probably unintentionally). Why did no edit-y people take that scene out back and shoot it in the head?

    I don't think the Palpatine stuff in Rise of Skywalker works as well as in RotJ. Firstly, we've already seen this. Unless you hate ewoks and love inept exposition, you're probably still better off watching RotJ. Secondly, I think the Dark Side possession stuff completely misses the mark. It reads like, "If you do this bad (?) thing, you'll be possessed by bad people and do more bad things!", which isn't really compelling material. Or is killing Palps only bad in RoS because it doesn't kill him? I struggle to understand the message here. (If Palps shanked himself, would he possess himself?) Then Rey kills Palps anyway, but her lightsabres make a cross which stops Palps possessing her? I give up. In fairness, I don't think Lucas' Dark Side works great either, but I can at least tell what he was trying to say.

    The actors deserved better material than they got. ("I am all the Jedi!") Disney really dropped the ball with Star Wars and it's just quite disappointing. It could have been a return to form but it just... wasn't.

  26. - Top - End - #176
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    I think Rise of Skywalker could have still been good, even with the problems of the prior two movies. It wastes most of it's time on a relic hunt that turns out to be a total waste of time because they just grab an identical relic from Kylo Ren's ship later. The line "That's not a fleet, that's just people" should have been the capper to this whole trilogy. It should have gone from "There's no one coming" in TLJ to travelling and inspiring people in RoS. Giving us a reason for everyone showing up at the end rather than making us think that the movie should have been following Lando the whole time instead. What if they realize that Palp's plan hinges on Rey turning up and....she doesn't. They figure out that's what he needs, so Poe, Finn, Rose, or hell even 3PO is the one to go and undo his plans and stop him and Rey helps to stop the FO ships instead. It would be a great pivot for the whole movie (and retroactively the new trilogy) to be about the people of the galaxy deciding that they are not going to be the pawns in a neverending war between two factions of space wizards and putting an end to this.

  27. - Top - End - #177
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar Jarak View Post
    I don't think the Palpatine stuff in Rise of Skywalker works as well as in RotJ. Firstly, we've already seen this. Unless you hate ewoks and love inept exposition, you're probably still better off watching RotJ. Secondly, I think the Dark Side possession stuff completely misses the mark. It reads like, "If you do this bad (?) thing, you'll be possessed by bad people and do more bad things!", which isn't really compelling material. Or is killing Palps only bad in RoS because it doesn't kill him? I struggle to understand the message here. (If Palps shanked himself, would he possess himself?) Then Rey kills Palps anyway, but her lightsabres make a cross which stops Palps possessing her? I give up. In fairness, I don't think Lucas' Dark Side works great either, but I can at least tell what he was trying to say.
    In addition to all of this, the movie doesn't provide any clear reason for us to think that Palpatine is any more dead at the end of RoS than he was at the end of RotJ.
    I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    In addition to all of this, the movie doesn't provide any clear reason for us to think that Palpatine is any more dead at the end of RoS than he was at the end of RotJ.
    Palpatine is Nerull the deity of the undead.

  29. - Top - End - #179
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    In addition to all of this, the movie doesn't provide any clear reason for us to think that Palpatine is any more dead at the end of RoS than he was at the end of RotJ.
    The trilogy works a lot better if you accept the following.
    1. Palpatine was never defeated - he liked conquering the galaxy, but ruling it was boring so he arranged a way to disappear so he could go back to enjoying himself.
    2. Palpatine realised that his true passion was not conquering the galaxy - but trolling people while pretending to conquer the galaxy.
    3. Anything that doesn't make sense is Palpatine merely lying, using illusions to trick the audience, or using the force over great distances to mess with people.

    Why did Rey have such a strong connection to the force - she didn't that was Palpatine tricking everyone.
    Why did people see a laser destroy planets in real time in different systems - the laser didn't destroy anything it was a force illusion mixed with mind trick.
    Why did Rey get chosen by Palpatine to be the one he messed with - he rolled on a table after consulting some source books on the galaxy.
    Where did Palpatine's fleet come from 1) nowhere that was an illusion, or 2) from the completely fine republic navy yard that people thought was destroyed.
    Why didn't the first order light speed in front of the escaping resistance ship and shoot it - they are idiots.
    Why are they idiots - Palpatine found it funnier that way.
    Why didn't Luke stay around to help people - he knew that Palpatine was out there and unbeatable and so avoiding the situation seemed the only sane approach.
    Why did Luke then get involved - 1) he realised Palpatine was right and that he could mess with people too, or 2) he didn't they never found Luke that was Palpatine messing with people.
    Was Rey really Palpatine's granddaughter - no that was a lie.
    Why did he lie - he thought it was funny.
    Did he die at the end? - no he threw up an illusion and walked away to consider his next wacky hijinks.
    What did that illusion cover? - who knows, but possibly a lot.

    The entire trilogy works better if viewed throught this light and all things can be explained by it.

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga Movie Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    While I liked the films, I think that the ST had some evident weaknesses. One is that it didn't put any effort in setting up the scene. I have no idea about who the 1st Order are, or the general status of the Republic. The other one was that it relied a lot on being meant for children, and so had some illogical scenarios that were very positive for Rey, like meeting BBQ and Finn AND having the Falcon right there AND being adopted by Han Solo AND helped by the Orange Alien AND turning out strong enough to resist and use the Force on Keylo. This ends up disassembling any feeling of danger, and probably ruined the fighting compared to the OT and PT (just to make a couple examples, the duels in the forest in 7 and Keylo getting beaten up by the knights in 9: those aren't sticks, they are blades and lasers!).
    To be fair, A New Hope has some of the same problems. The entire trilogy doesn't happen if Uncle Owen didn't happen to need a droid that day, or if the droid he bought didn't spontaneously combust. Obi Wan just happens to be living around the corner from Luke, and Luke knows who he is despite Obi Wan being a hermit and Luke being a country bumpkin. How many people in your neighborhood do you know by name? Han happens to be in the bar when they are. The Death Star has destroyed Alderaan but is still loitering in the area when the Falcon arrives - without that, Leia doesn't get rescued. I'm sure there's more.

    I'm not saying TFA should be forgiven for those scenarios, but it isn't as horrible a crime as it's made out to be. There's a lot about the OT that is illogical in ways favorable to our heroes, but we forgive those because the OT is so good. The sequel trilogy is merely passable (verging into bad at times) and so the flaws are much more heavily criticized.

    I was thinking about the OT this morning for unrelated reasons, and I've steadily been coming to a realization. Empire Strikes Back is actually my least favorite of the OT. I'm sure part of this is down to the age I was when I watched Return - I was at the age when the Ewoks were cool and not "kiddy". I was genuinely surprised the first time I heard how well regarded Empire was, as Return had all my favorite scenes and lines. Further re-watching has only solidified this opinion - Empire has the great Darth Vader reveal and not much else. I don't remember how I felt watching that scene, so it's very possible that I already knew going in. That would kind of spoil the effect. There's no giant space battle, and I love me a giant space battle. A New Hope combined two things I love - the Hero's Journey and a WWII style impossible bombing mission. Return had swashbuckling adventure (the Jabba's palace rescue) along with another impossible mission. The scenes in the throne room from Return defined my childhood in a way that Empire didn't.

    Empire is still a very good film, and Return doesn't work without it. It's just up against some very stiff competition.

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