What Are You Playing, Part 3: The Assassination of my Wallet by the Cowardly Sale

[Cozzer]

A couple of pointers (though they may sound basic): picking Death Defiance x3 instead of per-room Defiance makes the Hades fight a lot easier. Similarly, dash x2 instead of the other one gives you a lot of advantage as well. Not picking those two costed me some amount of unnecessary deaths, personally.

Yeah, luckily I was already using these powers!

I just defeated Hades for the first time with the Sword, unlocking the Pact of Punishment. Now, looking around I see that most rare items (Titan Blood, Diamonds and so on) are obtained by defeating bosses on a higher-Heat run than your maximum.

So I guess the optimal way to power up would be to slowly add Heat, one point at a time each time I manage to defeat Hades... or I could just do a bunch of runs where my goal is defeating the Fury, adding Heat more quickly, to get Titan Blood and power up my weapons.

[Fred V]

Well im not sure if that've been suggested but there is an absolute banger called stone soup dungeon crawl a game that is in long development with constant updates etc etc, everything.
Game is a huge roguelike, its not dnd based, but a great rpg. Sometimes a great games doesnt cost you a penny :)

[Zombimode]

Big disagree here, dive deeper into the game, and there's a lot more going on in Squadrons than the Starfighter Assault mode of Battlefront 2 (Or either of the Rebel Galaxy games for that matter). I wouldn't say it can touch the X-Wing/TIE Fighter games of the 90's, but it's less arcade-y than the Rogue Squadron games. Starfighter combat sims are my favorite genre, and this is the best one I've played in at least 15 years, Star Wars coat of paint or no. (Though I'm open to suggestions if I missed any) Give it a chance! If you're interested in the genre, I think it's a well crafted game given a lot more attention that I feared was going to be the case. And if you get a chance to play it in VR, it's absolutely breathtaking.

How does this game compare to Freespace 2 (which I consider the pinnacle of military space action games)?

I'm interessted in Squadrons but I fear that I will get frustrated if its too much of a step back from Freespace - especially concering the singleplayer experience.

I think this is my biggest reservation about Squadrons: it's a multiplayer game. Sure, sure, it has a tacked on SP "campaign" but those tend to be pretty crappy* in these kind of games. I would LOVE to be proven wrong.

*

Spoiler: about design implications of SP/MP games

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Even though MP players tend to refuse to acknowledge it multiplayer and singleplayer DO have different needs. The focus of your game will impact its design. If you set out to make a great MP game you will likely make different design choices then when you set out to create a greate singleplayer game: from its presentation and art direction, to the UI, the flight model, the weapons and ship types, how to model capital ships and their defenses and capabilities, and so on and so forth. Also what is the vision of the game development leads? The amount of creative energy and dedication (not to mention budget) that goes into the different aspects of the game will depend on this answer.

On topic: I've started Vampyr. While not without flaws this game provides a much better, much smarter and more nuanced experience of being a Vampire then anything related to White Wolf. Sure, Bloodlines in a great CRPG, but compared to Vampyr it is childish as a vampire game.

[Man_Over_Game]

A couple of pointers (though they may sound basic): picking Death Defiance x3 instead of per-room Defiance makes the Hades fight a lot easier. Similarly, dash x2 instead of the other one gives you a lot of advantage as well. Not picking those two costed me some amount of unnecessary deaths, personally.

I will say that the Death Defiance versions really do depend on your style.

For me, the 1-per-room works great, since I no longer have to worry about my health in a run. That means no more buying HP items, no more demand for life-gain boons/upgrades, etc. As long as I can start a boss fight with about 20 or so HP, I know I'll be able to finish it. Doesn't matter if I survive with only 9 HP and no lives left.

Then, when it comes to the last zone, I just swap out my current relic for Skully's extra live, and now I'm guaranteed to have 2 lives against the final boss.

I tried the x3 Death Defiance after getting used to 1-per-room, and it just feels so much more stressful. Every point against you matters and feels like a major setback. Yet, my wife can't use the per-room life at all.


So play around a little bit and see what feels better. I personally enjoy being able to off myself on a trap to get myself back up to 30% each time I clear a room with low HP.

[Spacewolf]

On topic: I've started Vampyr. While not without flaws this game provides a much better, much smarter and more nuanced experience of being a Vampire then anything related to White Wolf. Sure, Bloodlines in a great CRPG, but compared to Vampyr it is childish as a vampire game.

I played abit of it, but I felt it's got more of an issue with tone than Bloodlines, I mean it's got this all lives matter everything is connected concept. Except for the 50 billion vampires, gangsters and cultists you kill walking down the street without remorse, hesitation or impact since they just respawn.

Bloodlines had some of that but not quite to the same degree

[Cespenar]

I will say that the Death Defiance versions really do depend on your style.

For me, the 1-per-room works great, since I no longer have to worry about my health in a run. That means no more buying HP items, no more demand for life-gain boons/upgrades, etc. As long as I can start a boss fight with about 20 or so HP, I know I'll be able to finish it. Doesn't matter if I survive with only 9 HP and no lives left.

Then, when it comes to the last zone, I just swap out my current relic for Skully's extra live, and now I'm guaranteed to have 2 lives against the final boss.

I tried the x3 Death Defiance after getting used to 1-per-room, and it just feels so much more stressful. Every point against you matters and feels like a major setback. Yet, my wife can't use the per-room life at all.


So play around a little bit and see what feels better. I personally enjoy being able to off myself on a trap to get myself back up to 30% each time I clear a room with low HP.

For me, both the theory and practice seem pretty clear cut. Though as with most things, I'll admit that it may depend on some styles.

My theory (developed on my experience) goes like this: the difficulty in the game goes like: easy, easy, easy, a medium spike (Theseus), easy, a hard spike (Hades). If we go conservative and add 2 more rooms we might have problems with, it means that on 2-4 out of 60-something rooms (95%?), the room's defiance allocation is wasted (on me, at least). In practice, the spikes were even more dire around when I had finished it the first time -- I'd cruise along the game, no room deaths, only to die on Hades once and have no lives left (apart from the Skelly one). Then I'd lose against him, barely. Happened three times. Then I tried the death defiance x3, instant win.

Also, HP is pretty cheap, so gold is not even an issue. Moreover, you can "break" the HP system by equipping Charon's keepsake (best in Elysium), making the food drop buffs on shops last 11 rooms instead of 3 rooms. Etc. etc.

Though it means it's pretty good system design if it allows such different mentalities in a mainly "dash around, attack stuff" kinda game.

[Man_Over_Game]

For me, both the theory and practice seem pretty clear cut. Though as with most things, I'll admit that it may depend on some styles.

My theory (developed on my experience) goes like this: the difficulty in the game goes like: easy, easy, easy, a medium spike (Theseus), easy, a hard spike (Hades). If we go conservative and add 2 more rooms we might have problems with, it means that on 2-4 out of 60-something rooms (95%?), the room's defiance allocation is wasted (on me, at least). In practice, the spikes were even more dire around when I had finished it the first time -- I'd cruise along the game, no room deaths, only to die on Hades once and have no lives left (apart from the Skelly one). Then I'd lose against him, barely. Happened three times. Then I tried the death defiance x3, instant win.

Also, HP is pretty cheap, so gold is not even an issue. Moreover, you can "break" the HP system by equipping Charon's keepsake (best in Elysium), making the food drop buffs on shops last 11 rooms instead of 3 rooms. Etc. etc.

Though it means it's pretty good system design if it allows such different mentalities in a mainly "dash around, attack stuff" kinda game.

True.

My strategy usually involves picking up a boon that combos with my chosen weapon right at the start, picking up either boons or gold until the final floor when I swap out for the extra live.

I know some people go for Thanatos's damage stacking, but I feel like that's a lot less fun and encourages more slow, ranged combat styles that feel boring to me.

But it all works. Props for Supergiant for getting that part right.

[Anteros]

True.

My strategy usually involves picking up a boon that combos with my chosen weapon right at the start, picking up either boons or gold until the final floor when I swap out for the extra live.

I know some people go for Thanatos's damage stacking, but I feel like that's a lot less fun and encourages more slow, ranged combat styles that feel boring to me.

But it all works. Props for Supergiant for getting that part right.

I go Thanatos for damage stacking and don't play slow or ranged at all. It's all about constant dashing and aggression. You don't need defensive stats if you don't get hit. The invincibility dash from Athena in particular is so stupidly broken that it's an instant run winner no matter how bad the rest of your build is.

[Man_Over_Game]

I go Thanatos for damage stacking and don't play slow or ranged at all. It's all about constant dashing and aggression. You don't need defensive stats if you don't get hit. The invincibility dash from Athena in particular is so stupidly broken that it's an instant run winner no matter how bad the rest of your build is.

I prefer Hermes' version for extra speed and dodge chance, since clearing a room quickly is a lot easier than not getting hit. The speed can be converted back into damage through a boon from Hermes, making it multi-purpose, and easier to fill.

[Dire_Flumph]

How does this game compare to Freespace 2 (which I consider the pinnacle of military space action games)?

I'm interessted in Squadrons but I fear that I will get frustrated if its too much of a step back from Freespace - especially concering the singleplayer experience.

I think this is my biggest reservation about Squadrons: it's a multiplayer game. Sure, sure, it has a tacked on SP "campaign" but those tend to be pretty crappy* in these kind of games. I would LOVE to be proven wrong.

My top three space combat games are Freespace 2, TIE Fighter, and Independence War (no particular order, they're all great and scratch different itches). Nothing else has come close, even Squadrons.

I haven't touched the multiplayer, and haven't even finished the singleplayer yet, I've been busier than I'd like the last two weeks, and I've been replaying missions with different loadouts and difficulties. The singleplayer is strong on its own, much (much, MUCH) better than the tacked on thing that came with Battlefront II. The story is ok, better if you're big into Star Wars lore and looking into the early New Republic period where the Rebels are now trying to form a government (and some pilots are uneasy that they're now building the big machines of war) and the Empire is on the defensive and splintered into squabbling factions. But it's nowhere near as gripping as Freespace 2's campaign, where some bits like the Sathanas missions or the evacuation in the final mission have stuck with me for years.

Spoiler: Story mission example

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For example, I did like one mission as the Empire where in the previous mission as the Rebels you lured the Empire into a trap, crippling their Star Destroyer. Now looking for repairs they limp to a repair depot, run by a petty despot who attempts to "reassign" the Star Destroyer to his command before he will agree to any repairs. You agree (for now) and help him defend against a Rebel assault. During which you need to scan his station's storage on the sly and locate where he's keeping the materials you need for repairs. Using the rebel attack as cover, you then have to steal the needed material out from under his nose while also keeping his station intact.

But still, it's the best the genre has managed in years. You're fighting in a squadron group rather than solo against the same 3-8 mercs/pirates/whatever in every other space game I've played recently which opens up your combat options. You have a variety of power management and targeting options. It's visually gorgeous (amazingly so in VR), and I've had a lot of fun playing it. For comparison, I'd look at it as more of an upgrade to the Rogue Squadron games and somewhere between those and TIE Fighter. I can update better on the whole singleplayer campaign when I've gotten to the end of it. I wish we were still doing demos in this day and age so that it was easier to get a taste of the gameplay, but I think it's easily worth the $40 asking price, and will almost certainly be cheaper during the holiday season.

[Zevox]

Finished up Persona 4 Golden.

You know, when I started replaying this, I was kind of wondering if revisiting the game when it's been so many years since I last played might result in me seeing that it wasn't as good as I remembered, that perhaps I was wrong to hold it above Persona 5. But just the opposite happened - replaying it only reinforced that. While I can point to gameplay elements that P5 improved, I think that Persona 4 is just a stronger package overall, particularly in terms of its story. There are points where I feel P5's story weakens and becomes disappointing, but that's never the case in Persona 4. Start to finish, it's just a wonderful experience, with at most rare annoying moments when you have to sit through Teddie being a perv or the like, which is nothing by comparison really. And I don't say that to disparage P5, I think it's a great game too despite the handful of flaw I can criticize - just to explain why I'll still hold up Persona 4 as my favorite game of all time over it.

A few spoilery comments:

Spoiler: Ending spoilers

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I like the concept behind Marie's dungeon, with all of those extra conditions thrown in to add an extra challenge to it - but in practice, they didn't seem to matter. Rise's ability to restore 10% of your SP after a battle sort of settled into an equilibrium with the "your SP is halved after each fight" mechanic, so I always wound up with enough SP on everyone to throw around a few spells per fight, which is you need at that point. Perhaps it would have been more of a challenge had I turned the difficulty up to hard though - I'm definitely suspecting that the last time I played, it was on hard, as everything, up to and including the final battle with Izanami, was easier than I recall it being, even though I'm playing in much the same way as I did before.

I do like Marie in the end there. She's not as much of a standout as most of your party members, but I like how they tied her into the story ultimately, it did make her situation during her dungeon a fairly compelling one, and her ultimately turning out to be a fragment of Izanami is interesting. Makes me wonder if that'll ever come up in future spin-offs - they didn't really do anything with her in P4AU, but if/when we see a Persona 5 Arena, perhaps? Or if they ever do other spin-offs that are set after the existing games rather than the mid-game crossovers that the Persona Q titles are? Eh, okay, probably not, but would be interesting if they did.

Some of the Golden additions were a mixed bag (did we really need two extra scenes of the guys trying to peep on the girls in the hot springs? Really?), but on the whole, I'm glad to have them. More time with these characters is always wonderful. Hell, the extra scene at the end was a nice addition - I always get kind of choked up at the ending scene of everyone seeing Yu off at the train station, so I'm not against having a more upbeat, rather than bittersweet, final scene before the credits roll. Especially with how Never More sounds as an end credits song, which only kind of reinforces the bittersweet feeling when the game ends on the train station scene. Though I can't help but wonder how Rise and Nanako grew their hair that much in just two months.

I guess there's not a ton else to say. I love this game and revisiting it was pure joy from start to finish. I'm so glad they finally brought it to something other than the damned Vita - even if I would've personally preferred the PS4 or Switch over Steam. Hopefully its success might make them give more thought to finally doing a Persona 3 Definitive Edition, since that game is still in the awkward spot of only being on the PS2 and PSP and not having a clear best version thanks to the things they had to cut out of the PSP version.

[tonberrian]

I keep wondering if I should rebuy my Vita games on PC or switch where available. On the one hand, I'd love to put another hundred hours into Persona 4 and Disgaea 4 each. On the other hand, it's not like I've not got these already...

[Lord Raziere]

I go Thanatos for damage stacking and don't play slow or ranged at all. It's all about constant dashing and aggression. You don't need defensive stats if you don't get hit. The invincibility dash from Athena in particular is so stupidly broken that it's an instant run winner no matter how bad the rest of your build is.

Yeah I've won two runs by going fists, then just dashing about and punching forever while using x3 death defiance version because thats the only one I had during the early access and by the time the alternates were added I was so invested in the defaults I barely cared about most of the alternative benefits of the mirror. the one defiance per room version I don't see why I'd need, because you can stay alive for a vast majority of the game without a losing a single defiance at least until he one you haven't beat yet. like it would be good in the fourth area because of how that place works, but if your fighting bosses that single defiance won't help, because bosses are what you spend your defiances on, and if your spending defiances on normal enemies that means your in trouble because normal mobs are killing you when they shouldn't be.

[Zevox]

I keep wondering if I should rebuy my Vita games on PC or switch where available. On the one hand, I'd love to put another hundred hours into Persona 4 and Disgaea 4 each. On the other hand, it's not like I've not got these already...

Depends on whether you have a reason why you'd want to play them on those instead of the Vita, I'd imagine. I mean, I'd probably buy a PS4/Switch/Steam release of Persona 3 Portable even if it were unaltered just to have it on something that can play on a TV/monitor instead of the PSP's smaller screen, for example. But if you're entirely happy just playing them on the Vita when you want to, nah, save the money.

[factotum]

While I can point to gameplay elements that P5 improved, I think that Persona 4 is just a stronger package overall, particularly in terms of its story. There are points where I feel P5's story weakens and becomes disappointing, but that's never the case in Persona 4. Start to finish, it's just a wonderful experience, with at most rare annoying moments when you have to sit through Teddie being a perv or the like, which is nothing by comparison really.

While I agree that the story and characters in P4G beat P5R hands down, I'm not really able to call it a better game. The problem is the dungeons and the combat--a large proportion of the 100-odd hours you'll spend in this game is fighting Shadows in dungeons, and in P4G, with its randomly generated dungeons and super-simplified combat compared to P5 (or even P3, for that matter), that process rapidly becomes tedious. If the story hadn't been so good I don't think I would have been able to stand the dungeons enough to get to the end of the game. P5R Palaces never became boring in that way, because the combat had more depth and them being designed rather than random made them a lot more fun to explore.

So, overall, my nod for the better game sadly has to go to P5R. If they could get the story and characters of P4 with the dungeon crawling of P5 then they'd have probably the best game ever made...here's hoping for P6!

[Cozzer]

Re: Hades.
I've completed my third successful run (Sword, Spear and Fists). I want to try a more long-range style too, but I just can't seem to get it... I start having troubles as soon as Asphodel, and I can't even reach Theseus reliably. Between the remaining weapons, the gun is my favorite, so I guess I'll use that for a while (alternating with a few 1 Heat runs with every weapon, just to get more Titan Blood and Diamonds from the Furies and the Hydra).

For now, I start every run with the money-giving accessory (the money it gives me will translate into an extra Boon or life-up somewhere along the run). After Tartarus, I switch for the personal accessory of one of the Olympian gods, depending on the build (so I'm veeery slowly levelling them up too). After Asphodel, I usually equip the Feather Duster (having a semi-reliable source of health recovery isn't bad during Elysium). For the last area, I finally equip Skelly's Tooth for one more revival chance against the final boss.

I'm also quite close to achieving all the Olympian Gods' prophecies, which... will give me a lot of Gemstones that I can only use for cosmetic purposes. I'll just wait for the times where the Broker offers the 100 Gemstones -> 1 Diamond trade.

[Winthur]

I finally got a Dead Cells win with 2 Boss Cells active using an extremely passive and conservative Survival build that, before the final boss, ended up switching from colorless Electric Whip + Shield into a high level Repeater Crossbow. Now I can probably relax and try more aggressive playstyles.

Also started Tales of Symphonia.

Spoiler: First few minutes of Vesperia

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Carefree, cool young adult takes his dog and a princess on an adventure to catch a petty thief

Spoiler: First few minutes of Symphonia

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Himbo swordsman dooms his village because he dared to try and liberate Auschwitz. Seriously why the hell is a schoolboy forced to pass by a concentration camp on his way to school, that is so messed up

[Man_Over_Game]

Re: Hades.
I've completed my third successful run (Sword, Spear and Fists). I want to try a more long-range style too, but I just can't seem to get it... I start having troubles as soon as Asphodel, and I can't even reach Theseus reliably. Between the remaining weapons, the gun is my favorite, so I guess I'll use that for a while (alternating with a few 1 Heat runs with every weapon, just to get more Titan Blood and Diamonds from the Furies and the Hydra).

If you're looking for something effective at range, try looking into Zagreus spear or some of the ricochet shields. The Zag spear is great for stacking bonuses (Dionysus) or base damage bonuses (Artemis) against bosses, while the ricochet shield is really strong with non-stacking status effects (Ares).

My first successful run ever was a ranged shield Doom build. Honestly, it was so easy that it was hard to find something that was a challenge.

And you can make almost anything a ranged build by focusing on the Poseidon Cast. It has the most number of cast-specific Duo boons in the game, making it a great choice for a long-term investment. Personally, I like to mix it with the Cast-dislodge sword aspect, so I can spam it against bosses. Add in the Hermes Relic that rewards you every time you clear a room quickly, and x3 ammo uses of your cast, and you can just blow apart rooms in seconds with your water rocket launcher.

Poseidon Sword + Poseidon Starting Relic makes such a good combo that leaves very few boon choices at the start that could ever be a waste. Maybe Poseidon's Dash could be a problem, if only because the knockback it does can push the enemy out of your sword's range (although the dash does enough damage that you don't really need to even attack).

On that note, Poseidon's Dash is deceptively good for Spear builds, as it means that the knockback and damage fixes the problems with Spear-dash builds.

I'd really recommend picking a God relic right off the bat, as it ensures you can get a complimentary boon for the weapon you've chosen for the run. Since you can get synergizing upgrades to the boons you already have, it starts a trend of getting powers that are almost guaranteed to work with your build. You can always pick up the gold afterwards. Plus, having a successful start to a run means you're spending less on HP and prioritizing fewer survival boons, so it sets you up for long-term success in more ways than one.

My suggestion for each weapon is:

• Sword: Poseidon, Artemis, Athena.
• Spear: Ares, Poseidon, Athena, Zeus.
• Bow: Ares, Poseidon.
• Shield:
  • Ricochet Aspects: Ares, Aphrodite, Dionysus
  • Zeus Aspect: Zeus, Demeter, Dionysus
• Fists: Demeter, Dionysus, Athena
• Gun: Zeus, Demeter, Dionysus

[Zevox]

While I agree that the story and characters in P4G beat P5R hands down, I'm not really able to call it a better game. The problem is the dungeons and the combat--a large proportion of the 100-odd hours you'll spend in this game is fighting Shadows in dungeons, and in P4G, with its randomly generated dungeons and super-simplified combat compared to P5 (or even P3, for that matter), that process rapidly becomes tedious. If the story hadn't been so good I don't think I would have been able to stand the dungeons enough to get to the end of the game. P5R Palaces never became boring in that way, because the combat had more depth and them being designed rather than random made them a lot more fun to explore.

So, overall, my nod for the better game sadly has to go to P5R.

Well, I must respectfully but firmly disagree. While I do agree that P5R's Palaces being fully designed and not randomly generated is a big improvement - by far the single biggest gameplay improvement P5 made over its predecessors, IMO - and I could see an argument for it having more complex combat thanks to additions like the Technical and Baton Pass systems, I don't think that any part of Persona 4 is remotely boring or tedious. The combat system is still quite engaging simply because the core mechanics of Persona's combat are good - the high-risk, high-reward system of getting extra turns for striking weaknesses, while enemies get the same. Even though I've mentioned that P4G was easier than I recall P4 being, I still had a couple of moments where I got wiped out during it, and any time an enemy attack struck a team members weakness made me tense. There's always that bit of a balancing act considering how much sp or hp to commit to special moves and when you want to hold back in order to get deeper into a dungeon in a single day, at least until Rise's late-game benefits to SP regen kick in. That aspect of the game, while not the standout defining trait of it that the story and characters are, is still good in my opinion, so P5R improving on it does not make it better when it simultaneously lost some (if not all that much) quality in the, honestly more important to these games IMO, area of its story.

If they could get the story and characters of P4 with the dungeon crawling of P5 then they'd have probably the best game ever made...here's hoping for P6!

Even as someone who does consider P4 (and 3 alongside it) the best game ever made, I can heartily share that hope. Not holding my breath on how soon we'll see P6 though - it took eight years after P4 for P5 to come around, after all. And honestly, for the kind of quality the Persona series has, I'm cool with waiting however long it takes them.

[NRSASD]

If you're looking for something effective at range, try looking into Zagreus spear or some of the ricochet shields. The Zag spear is great for stacking bonuses (Dionysus) or base damage bonuses (Artemis) against bosses, while the ricochet shield is really strong with non-stacking status effects (Ares).

My first successful run ever was a ranged shield Doom build. Honestly, it was so easy that it was hard to find something that was a challenge.

And you can make almost anything a ranged build by focusing on the Poseidon Cast. It has the most number of cast-specific Duo boons in the game, making it a great choice for a long-term investment. Personally, I like to mix it with the Cast-dislodge sword aspect, so I can spam it against bosses. Add in the Hermes Relic that rewards you every time you clear a room quickly, and x3 ammo uses of your cast, and you can just blow apart rooms in seconds with your water rocket launcher.

Poseidon Sword + Poseidon Starting Relic makes such a good combo that leaves very few boon choices at the start that could ever be a waste. Maybe Poseidon's Dash could be a problem, if only because the knockback it does can push the enemy out of your sword's range (although the dash does enough damage that you don't really need to even attack).

On that note, Poseidon's Dash is deceptively good for Spear builds, as it means that the knockback and damage fixes the problems with Spear-dash builds.

I'd really recommend picking a God relic right off the bat, as it ensures you can get a complimentary boon for the weapon you've chosen for the run. Since you can get synergizing upgrades to the boons you already have, it starts a trend of getting powers that are almost guaranteed to work with your build. You can always pick up the gold afterwards. Plus, having a successful start to a run means you're spending less on HP and prioritizing fewer survival boons, so it sets you up for long-term success in more ways than one.

My suggestion for each weapon is:

• Sword: Poseidon, Artemis, Athena.
• Spear: Ares, Poseidon, Athena, Zeus.
• Bow: Ares, Poseidon.
• Shield:
  • Ricochet Aspects: Ares, Aphrodite, Dionysus
  • Zeus Aspect: Zeus, Demeter, Dionysus
• Fists: Demeter, Dionysus, Athena
• Gun: Zeus, Demeter, Dionysus

Having played in early access and just completed the epilogue, I strongly second Zeus Aspect Shield with a Demeter focus. With the right boons, it literally instajibs enemies. It's utterly fantastic.
As an aside, while it may not be optimal, using the Hidden Aspect of the Rail with a Poseidon Attack boon is hilarious. Not terribly effective, but profoundly silly.

[factotum]

That aspect of the game, while not the standout defining trait of it that the story and characters are, is still good in my opinion, so P5R improving on it does not make it better when it simultaneously lost some (if not all that much) quality in the, honestly more important to these games IMO, area of its story.

I guess where the actual disconnect between our opinions is coming from, then, is the relative importance of gameplay and story. In an interactive medium like gaming I give much greater weight to the gameplay side of things--after all, if story is all you're interested in, there are generally better ways to tell it, such as movies and books. This might be partially because my first experience of video games is from 40-odd years ago (making no assumptions about your age here, obviously), when story in a game was barely a thing and they *had* to stand up entirely on their gameplay.

Now, obviously story in a game like Persona or Trails of Cold Steel isn't entirely unimportant--part of what keeps you playing is wanting to see what happens to the characters. The gameplay does have to carry its weight, though, and (again IMHO) Persona 4's really didn't.

[Eldan]

I think there are stories, though, that can't really be told in other media. At least not without significantly changing them. For example, there are story experience where player choice is the entire point.

[Rodin]

Finally picked up Ghost of Tsushima. So far I'm really enjoying my haiku simulator. I ride around the island finding beautiful spots to compose poetry, occasionally stopping to play my flute.

People keep coming up to me saying something about a "Mongol invasion fleet." I keep telling them that's too many syllables, but they never listen!

[Razade]

A Mongol Invasion Fleet is exactly seven syllables. Just gotta endcap it and front load it with ten more.

[Gray Mage]

Also started Tales of Symphonia.

Spoiler: First few minutes of Symphonia

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Himbo swordsman dooms his village because he dared to try and liberate Auschwitz. Seriously why the hell is a schoolboy forced to pass by a concentration camp on his way to school, that is so messed up

Yeah, this is a good summary of the start of the game. ToS was my first "Tales of" game and it still holds a special place in my heart. It's a fun romp and interesting to see someone experience it for the first time.

[Cespenar]

Re: Hades.
I've completed my third successful run (Sword, Spear and Fists). I want to try a more long-range style too, but I just can't seem to get it... I start having troubles as soon as Asphodel, and I can't even reach Theseus reliably. Between the remaining weapons, the gun is my favorite, so I guess I'll use that for a while (alternating with a few 1 Heat runs with every weapon, just to get more Titan Blood and Diamonds from the Furies and the Hydra).

For now, I start every run with the money-giving accessory (the money it gives me will translate into an extra Boon or life-up somewhere along the run). After Tartarus, I switch for the personal accessory of one of the Olympian gods, depending on the build (so I'm veeery slowly levelling them up too). After Asphodel, I usually equip the Feather Duster (having a semi-reliable source of health recovery isn't bad during Elysium). For the last area, I finally equip Skelly's Tooth for one more revival chance against the final boss.

I'm also quite close to achieving all the Olympian Gods' prophecies, which... will give me a lot of Gemstones that I can only use for cosmetic purposes. I'll just wait for the times where the Broker offers the 100 Gemstones -> 1 Diamond trade.

For a gun build, try to pick something that buffs your Special from the Daedalus upgrades. And then spam special and dash around. If you chance upon the Hazard Bomb upgrade, you almost instawin the game.

For a bow build, unlock the aspect that lets you put your Casts into your bow, then go full Artemis. Pretty simple oneshot sniper build.

Your keepsake choices seem fine. I prefer the Hourglass over Feather Duster, since you can elongate the health buffs off of shops to absurd degrees, which pays better than the Feather Duster in my experience. But that works fine too.

My suggestion for each weapon is:

• Sword: Poseidon, Artemis, Athena.
• Spear: Ares, Poseidon, Athena, Zeus.
• Bow: Ares, Poseidon.
• Shield:
  • Ricochet Aspects: Ares, Aphrodite, Dionysus
  • Zeus Aspect: Zeus, Demeter, Dionysus
• Fists: Demeter, Dionysus, Athena
• Gun: Zeus, Demeter, Dionysus

I'd really advise against Poseidon. While it's possible to make it work, Poseidon is far out the worst god of all, mainly because the knockbacks don't work against bosses and the bosses are your real enemy.

Also, I'd advise against Doom builds unless you Duo it with Aphrodite or Athena, in which cases, they are pretty rad. Doom, by itself, doesn't really tick that fast or hard to be effective.

[factotum]

I think there are stories, though, that can't really be told in other media. At least not without significantly changing them. For example, there are story experience where player choice is the entire point.

Undoubtedly, but there still needs to be some sort of game there. If your game consists entirely of several hours of selecting dialogue options between story chapters then it's not a good game.

[Cozzer]

Re: Hades.

Thanks to everybody for the advice! I'm still experimenting with Boons/weapon mods comboes, trying to find what works for me.

Regarding the flexibility of the game, during a doomed Bow run (no money and no Death Defiance uses left after Elysium), I combined the Hermes Boon that gives you +2 Dashes, the Zeus Boon that strikes with thunder everytime you dash, and a few other Zeus Boons that complemented that. It didn't work against the final boss, but I passed the Temple of Styx by running my opponents to death.

[LibraryOgre]

Well, I screwed up in Morrowind, which undid several days of work, so I am taking a break. In the meantime, I am playing some ME3 multiplayer (and sucking at it so badly, especially since I'm trying to promote a Soldier), and Wing Commander: Privateer. I am at the point in Privateer where I could JUST BARELY afford an Orion with an Afterburner... which is all you need in the Troy System, since you can slam that afterburner and outrun every ship in the system... and since I can't afford shields, I can do that indefinitely.

[DeTess]

Undoubtedly, but there still needs to be some sort of game there. If your game consists entirely of several hours of selecting dialogue options between story chapters then it's not a good game.

Whether or not it is a game would be up for discussion, but the quality of such a thing would be in the writing. I've actually played my share of games/experiences like you describe, and choose-your-own-adventure books have been a thing in both physical and more recently in digital forms for ages.