I'd really like for 5E D&D to release a much more detailed mundane equipment list.

[Deathtongue]

Title just says it all, doesn't it? Regardless, it's been over 5 years -- I think it's high time that 5E D&D came up with a book that had a lot more kinds of equipment in it, such as:

• Not-quite-so-mundane special materials like mithril and cold iron and things you could make from it.
• Additional armor and shield geegaw and options, like spiked shields and miner's helmets.
• More weapons with more special properties. I want my Bec de Corbin and my Pilum, dang it.
• More exotic plants for mid-level characters to spend their money on. Tomb of Annihilation helps, but not enough.
• More quick-set traps, breastwork equipment, and camping supplies. I want my Rogues and Rangers to utterly pwn people who walk into ambushes or get spotted in wilderness encounters.

And equipment list would be power creep, but it'd be more power creep for martials, low-level monsters/NPCs, and people who enjoy Logistics and Dragons. So I find it less objectionable than, say, new spells and feats.

[Lupine]

A couple things. Firstly, there is a third party supplement for weapons and equipment on DM's guild. It's called the "Armorer's Handbook"

I have it, and I implemented it swiftly into my games. I didn't see a whole lot of problems behind it, but your mileage may vary.


It doesn't have a whole lot of stuff for adventuring gear, but I'd be hard pressed to give you a mundane item that isn't at least somewhat present in 5e. At least, not anything that I'd actually want out in the wilderness. (As someone who has done a two week backpacking trip, I can tell you, anything that isn't important, you don't want.)

Now, I wasn't trailblazing like PCs do, but meh. Close enough.

EDIT: Logistics and Dragons is one of my favorite games!

[sandmote]

I think 5e would format a lot of the cooler stuff as common magic items, unfortunately. Although I've taken to making common consumables for sale in most larger settlements for this. The Smokestick, Tanglefoot bag, and Thunderstone in particular (being from the 3.5e SRD).

I'd also prefer more weapon properties, so there's actually more weapon variety than 1 weapon per special thing. Exotic weapons would be nice as well.

• More exotic plants for mid-level characters to spend their money on. Tomb of Annihilation helps, but not enough.

What page are these on?

[Waazraath]

+1. I think this would add a lot t the game. Probably more mundane items would be a small boost for the thief (with fast hands), but don't think that would break anything. And in general, books like this please instead of yet another adventure path / campaign.

I updated my digital character sheet for Out of the Abyss yesterday, lvl 4 to 5... and I saw the document created was early 2007. Maybe it's different for other groups, but I'd really could do with more player options and less campaign books.

[Greywander]

It's especially frustrating when you actually know what you want, but can't find it in the equipment list. You don't know how much it costs or weighs, or whatever other mechanical properties it might have. For example, there's no fishing line, despite that being a common ingredient in traps.

We could also use some upgraded caltrops and ball bearings, as well as similar items in that vein. Maybe more tools. Tools are like skills that didn't make the cut as a skill, so having proficiency with that tool can give you an extra bonus to certain tasks, such as mason's tools allowing you to more easily spot secret passages ('cause you know what walls are supposed to look like, and that ain't no wall, sir).

But yeah, I'd like to see someone write a rulebook specifically focused around something like running a general store, with much more robust lists of different items and how they can be used. Also, an attempt to tackle the economics of D&D, such as going through the math to determine what would be a realistic payout for a quest. How much money does a nobleman actually have, or a guild master, or a priest? How does it affect prices when you flood the market with dungeon loot, or stay in one place crafting the same item over and over and selling it?

I know not everyone is looking for something like this in D&D, but I think it would be a useful DM tool if nothing else. I've actually thought it would be interesting to have a system for basically playing Civilization, where you build cities, collect resources, research technology, and make treaties with your neighbors. Would be a useful tool for a DM setting up their world and figuring out the geopolitical landscape, as well as the economics of each city.

[Morty]

The weapons and armor list is too long as it is, and mostly decoration. There's no room to expand it further without adding some rather useless fiddly numbers in the "add +2 to this once in a while" style.

[NorthernPhoenix]

The weapons and armor list is too long as it is, and mostly decoration. There's no room to expand it further without adding some rather useless fiddly numbers in the "add +2 to this once in a while" style.

I agree on weapons and armour.

However, for non weapon/armour stuff, i agree with the OP. It'd be cool to have more mundane stuff for people to play with, especially stuff not directly related to power in grid-based-combat.

[Ekzanimus]

It's especially frustrating when you actually know what you want, but can't find it in the equipment list. You don't know how much it costs or weighs, or whatever other mechanical properties it might have. For example, there's no fishing line, despite that being a common ingredient in traps.

We could also use some upgraded caltrops and ball bearings, as well as similar items in that vein. Maybe more tools. Tools are like skills that didn't make the cut as a skill, so having proficiency with that tool can give you an extra bonus to certain tasks, such as mason's tools allowing you to more easily spot secret passages ('cause you know what walls are supposed to look like, and that ain't no wall, sir).

But yeah, I'd like to see someone write a rulebook specifically focused around something like running a general store, with much more robust lists of different items and how they can be used. Also, an attempt to tackle the economics of D&D, such as going through the math to determine what would be a realistic payout for a quest. How much money does a nobleman actually have, or a guild master, or a priest? How does it affect prices when you flood the market with dungeon loot, or stay in one place crafting the same item over and over and selling it?

I know not everyone is looking for something like this in D&D, but I think it would be a useful DM tool if nothing else. I've actually thought it would be interesting to have a system for basically playing Civilization, where you build cities, collect resources, research technology, and make treaties with your neighbors. Would be a useful tool for a DM setting up their world and figuring out the geopolitical landscape, as well as the economics of each city.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. Third party supplements tackle many of this themes but they are not official and can't be relied upon. I'd be very glad to see some rulebooks from WotC about this things.

[Morty]

I agree on weapons and armour.

However, for non weapon/armour stuff, i agree with the OP. It'd be cool to have more mundane stuff for people to play with, especially stuff not directly related to power in grid-based-combat.

I have very little patience for equipment management, so I may be biased, but the current list looks rather... haphazardly thrown together and requiring GMs and players to do most of the legwork. So I can get behind wanting something better.

[Lupine]

I've actually thought it would be interesting to have a system for basically playing Civilization, where you build cities, collect resources, research technology, and make treaties with your neighbors. Would be a useful tool for a DM setting up their world and figuring out the geopolitical landscape, as well as the economics of each city.

Of course, the players would all have 5000 warmongering points,

[Tanarii]

IMO if you're going to build in gear as meaningful rule-oriented effects or bonuses, you need to do it from the beginning with a system those effects and bonuses can tap into or expand on properly. And you need a far more robust encumbrance system. And spell components system to put some limitations on casting.

Also a common problem is time. Lots of people want this stuff to be usable in combat. But that's how you end up with verisimilitude breakers like 1 round trap setters. Or the Artificer, especially the cannons.

OTOH you've got a system you can already tap into for some stuff: appropriate equipment allows you to make ability checks with proficiency. If you want to get generous you can use the XTGe rule, if you're already proficient it gives advantage.

[Sparky McDibben]

Title just says it all, doesn't it? Regardless, it's been over 5 years -- I think it's high time that 5E D&D came up with a book that had a lot more kinds of equipment in it

I did this with a single-player campaign I ran with my wife. She was going to play a thief rogue, and I wanted her to feel like Fantasy Batman. As I looked over the equipment list, it just didn't cut it for me. So, I selected like five items (caltrops, acid, alchemists' fire, bombs, and "Other") and created upgrade trees for them. Bombs were because I was introducing gunpowder in very small quantities, but you could just as easily have them be magical or whatever. The point it, they're basically grenades: 20 foot blast radius with 3d6 fire damage on a failed DC 13 Dexterity save. I took basic caltrops and upgraded them through like four levels: improved caltrops (which got you four times the coverage with a single use, and increased the difficulty of dodging them by 1), poisoned caltrops (improved caltrops, but the difficulty was up by 1 and if you hit them you get the poisoned condition until a short rest), master caltrops (1d6 damage and the DC jumps by 5), and explosive caltrops (which deal 2d6 fire damage and knock you prone if you step on them, DC 15).

I did the same thing to the other items, improving damage, coverage, range, or having them do other interesting things (like master acid reduced enemy AC by 2 per hit). For the bombs and "Other" categories, I literally went through the PHB and said, "which of these spells could be reflavored as coming from an alchemical effect?" I stopped at third level. For example, I created a potion called Liquid Courage. When you drank it, you got the benefits of a heroism spell, but you had to make a Wisdom saving throw, or change your flaw to: "I will never retreat from a foe, for I believe myself invincible!" for an hour. I created one called Thief Juice modeled on haste that inflicted a level of exhaustion rather than losing you a turn when it ended after a minute.

Basically, give the player the benefit of a spell, but up the cost a bit to prevent stockpiling and overuse. One of the bomb upgrades was a stinking cloud, for instance. Now, I didn't do anything with how to craft these items. My player didn't enjoy crafting, so I skipped that step. Instead, I let her rescue an NPC artificier who could create these things during downtime, if they found the recipes. So I created a random table, and whenever she would be poking around a library or a wizard's tower, or something, I would let her roll on the table. Some of the stuff was just weird (an awakened mouse named Sethory, for example, or a nun's habit without a nun, or a nude sketch of a flabby old dude with a love letter), but sometimes it would be a recipe. That was how I gated their acquisition. Drove a lot of heists when she was like, "Rob a wizard, huh? I bet they've got a lot of cool **** in there." It also requires you to give them plenty of downtime to let the "Q" character restock.

To refer to Tanarii's point about encumbrance, I gave her a utility belt. The belt was upgradeable at levels 5, 11, and 17, started with four slots, and gained an extra slot at each of those levels. Each slot could hold three of a given item (so one slot could hold three bags of caltrops, for instance). Each time it was upgraded, it could hold one more use of an item, too. And I ignored any effect of encumbrance for anything on the utility belt. One point of caution - if you're going to do this, go really light on magic items. In this campaign I didn't give out a bag of holding until 18th level.

You can also do the same thing to armor, for instance. She wanted a Boba Fett-style grappling cord, so I used grasping vine to model one.

I also let her use all of these things as a bonus action because 1) she was a thief, and I know thief won't let you use alchemists' fire as a bonus action, but meh, and 2) she was a rogue and already has a lot of competition for her bonus action, and 3) it was a solo game. YMMV.

Final point is cost. I set it up so that each step up the upgrade tree cost about an extra 100 gp for consumables. So explosive caltrops cost about 500 gp per use. Hardly crippling at higher levels, but not insignificant. I also gated it with rare materials. You couldn't just buy gunpowder; you had to go rob the Prince's castle for that ****, so there was always a risk when she went to get some more. It turned resupply into an adventure, and introduced costs. Each time the defenses got more elaborate, and the Prince's troops start hunting for the thief, and each time it got riskier and riskier to go back for more.

It's especially frustrating when you actually know what you want, but can't find it in the equipment list. You don't know how much it costs or weighs, or whatever other mechanical properties it might have. For example, there's no fishing line, despite that being a common ingredient in traps.

This is confusing to me. Why would you need to know this?

[Deathtongue]

This is confusing to me. Why would you need to know this?

Let's take the oil from the PHB. Imagine if there wasn't an entry for what you could do with it. You just had a price, weight, and option to buy it as mundane gear. Regardless, I think it'd be a pretty reasonable request if the party Thief wanted to set up an oil floor, lure enemies into it, and then light it on fire. Of course it then raises questions like: how much of the floor can I cover in one Interact with an Object action, how fast does the oil burn, how long does the oil burn, how much damage does it do, how does it interact with spells like Fire Bolt and Burning Hands, etc.

By having an entry for that, the Thief player doesn't have to have a discussion with their or any other DM every time they want to set up oil traps. They don't have to argue that it takes two actions to cover a square with oil or that setting the oil on fire requires a Dexterity saving throw or whatever. This kind of expectations-setting savings on time is invaluable if you like that kind of playstyle.

[Tanarii]

Another approach would be to have a "Trip Trap Kit" and "Dart Trap Kit" etc.

Of course, for some players and DMs they'd feel that stifled creativity and was too video game-y. That's when you want to be able to pick up a bunch of things you think you can use to make a trap, then figure out the details with the DM using what you have on hand. Thus ... fishing line.

[Greywander]

1) she was a thief, and I know thief won't let you use alchemists' fire as a bonus action, but meh,

Actually, it does. Even though you're making an attack, you're not taking the Attack action, you're taking the Use an Object action. Thief can do it as a bonus action.

This is confusing to me. Why would you need to know this?

"Hi, I'd like to buy some fishing line."
"Fishing line? We don't have it."
"But... this is a fishing shop... in a fishing village..."
"Hmm, good point."
"So, how much does it cost?"
"Dunno."
"Wha...? Well, how much will it weigh me down? My backpack is almost full."
"Dunno."
"Seriously? Well, let's say I tie someone up with it. What's the Strength DC to break the line?"
"Dunno."
"Oh my god. Can you at least tell me how much weight it can support?"
"Dunno."

Fishing line was just an example. This would apply any time you want to buy something that isn't specifically listed in the equipment list. There are even things in the equipment packs and background equipment that aren't listed in the equipment list, so you're literally starting with items that you don't know what they cost, weigh, or do. Things like a priest's vestments, a censer, or incense. Also, I don't think "a small knife" is supposed to equate to a dagger (otherwise, it would just say "a dagger"), but there are no other knives in the equipment list.

[Sparky McDibben]

"Hi, I'd like to buy some fishing line."
"Fishing line? We don't have it."
"But... this is a fishing shop... in a fishing village..."
"Hmm, good point."
"So, how much does it cost?"
"Dunno."
"Wha...? Well, how much will it weigh me down? My backpack is almost full."
"Dunno."
"Seriously? Well, let's say I tie someone up with it. What's the Strength DC to break the line?"
"Dunno."
"Oh my god. Can you at least tell me how much weight it can support?"
"Dunno."

Fishing line was just an example. This would apply any time you want to buy something that isn't specifically listed in the equipment list. There are even things in the equipment packs and background equipment that aren't listed in the equipment list, so you're literally starting with items that you don't know what they cost, weigh, or do. Things like a priest's vestments, a censer, or incense. Also, I don't think "a small knife" is supposed to equate to a dagger (otherwise, it would just say "a dagger"), but there are no other knives in the equipment list.

So, this is exactly why this confused me. Making those kinds of on-the-fly rulings is exactly the DM's job. There is no way to include all the items possible in the world in the PHB. Here's how I would run that interaction:

PC: "Hi, I'd like to buy some fishing line."

Me: "Well, PHB lists fishing tackle, it would probably be included in there, if you want the whole kit and kaboodle."

PC: "Nah, I just want fishing line."

Me: "OK, so DM question - what do you need this for? Can you tell me what you're trying to do with it?"

PC: "Well, I want to fish, but I also want to maybe have some loose wire or something."

Me: "OK, I'll say you can get some fishing line on its own for maybe 1 sp, because you're trying to get enough of it to tie someone up. Let's say you get a total of 50 feet."

PC: "Well, how much will it weigh me down? My backpack is almost full."

Me: "Call it a tenth of a pound."

PC: "Say I tie someone up with it. What's the Strength DC to break the line?"

Me: "I'll say Strength DC 13, but anyone Large size or larger is going to have advantage on that check."

PC: "Can you tell me how much weight it can support?"

Me: "Let's say 50 pounds. It's fishing line, so it shouldn't be able to support too much."

Making rulings like this is exactly the purpose of a DM. You don't need someone to tell you what priests' vestments do. They enable access, maybe give you advantage on social checks with pious individuals, or on checks with credulous peasants, et cetera. You're empowered to make your own calls, which is one of the greatest strengths of this edition. It sounds like you just have a DM what needs to up their game, hoss.

[sandmote]

So, this is exactly why this confused me. Making those kinds of on-the-fly rulings is exactly the DM's job. There is no way to include all the items possible in the world in the PHB.

...

Making rulings like this is exactly the purpose of a DM. You don't need someone to tell you what priests' vestments do. They enable access, maybe give you advantage on social checks with pious individuals, or on checks with credulous peasants, et cetera. You're empowered to make your own calls, which is one of the greatest strengths of this edition. It sounds like you just have a DM what needs to up their game, hoss.

Its an issue of consistency and the effort.

When this regularly come sup with an item, rules are going to be forgotten and there isn't really a reference to check. Similarly, coming up with reasonable rules on the fly takes effort, and even a good DM is slowed down by introducing a bunch of such items. Commonly used items are written down so the DM has more time to put their effort into the rest of the adventure.

And of course its a lot easier to stock up on items when you can add them yourself during downtime. Consider the effects of having that conversation every single time you want another piece for trap construction. It's going to drag down the game, even if the DM can come up with workable rules for it on the fly.

[greenstone]

…a book that had a lot more kinds of equipment in it, such as:

So, not actually "mundane" then? :-P

[HappyDaze]

I'm looking forward to composite laminate plate armor and depleted uranium-tipped heavy crossbow bolts for my tanking PC.

[Chronos]

I've been known to dig out my old 2nd edition PHB for this purpose. Obviously magic items, and special equipment like alchemical stuff, is going to be outdated, but there's no reason that a pocketknife, fishing line, or needle and thread should be any different between editions.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'd really like for 5E D&D to release a much more detailed mundane equipment list

I don't see the point of doing this. This edition is trying to reduce the fiddly bits, not increase them. By expanding the list the number of mechanics/mechanical rules provided would need to increase, and more opportunities for exploits would be a risk.

[Dr. Cliché]

So, this is exactly why this confused me. Making those kinds of on-the-fly rulings is exactly the DM's job.

Surely the DM's job should be in ruling whether or not the players are able to successfully use the fishing line for something not specifically covered in the rules?

Because as a DM, I'm already rather busy keeping track of lore, NPCs, monsters, villains, resolved plot quests, loot, unresolved quests, optional/backstory-driven quests, plot-hooks etc.

I could really do without having to come up with the basic statistics and cost of fishing line on the fly.

[Chronos]

Yeah, 2nd edition didn't have any particular rules for most of its mundane equipment (for that matter, most editions don't have rules for most of their mundane equipment). If you wanted to try to figure out some way of using fishing line, that was for you to come up with, and for the DM to approve. But you could at least buy it.

[Waazraath]

I don't see the point of doing this. This edition is trying to reduce the fiddly bits, not increase them. By expanding the list the number of mechanics/mechanical rules provided would need to increase, and more opportunities for exploits would be a risk.

But isn't this a recipe for stagnation? I mean yeah, not too much fiddly bits, we already have plenty of semi-mundane items that do stuff (caltrops, holy water, ball bearings, alchimist fire, acit flask, etc), we already have weapons with special abilities...

How is expanding on those 'more mechanics / mechanical rules'? How is it this different from adding new spells and feats? For me: I don't see that. And more in general, of course 5e tries to be a more streamlined edition, but options must be added, one way or another, to keep it interesting for the existing player base. As long as you put all those options in 1 book as optional rules, I don't think it poses problems for more casual players that just want the core books. And yeah there is always a risk of power creep, but with good design and playtest it is possible to add options without it.