D&D Base Class Contest XI Chat Thread

[pygmybatrider]

G'day dudes, been out of the game for a while.

Have tentative ideas for an Int-based Mage class that can be taken in virtually any direction depending on subclass - thinking Battle Mage, Red Mage, White Mage, and maybe Blue Mage and/or Black Mage.

Thinking base class is a full caster who prepares a small number of spells from a pretty limited class list, but the more casty subs have access to a mechanic similar to magical secrets, limited via school, or a smaller set of "domain" spells. Battle gets extra attack at 6 and maybe some form of scaled-down Smite.

The "signature creation" comes from the specific focusses of the subclasses and also the ability to create your own "signature creation" via the class.

Will have a think and see if I can come up with something in the timeframe.

[MoleMage]

Feedback time! Splitting the contest into two halves; I'll get the other classes tomorrow.

Spoiler: Kombatant

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Gotta say this isn't what I expected, though a signature fighting style or finishing move definitely fits the theme.

• The wording on Kombo could be tightened a bit to prevent stacking abuse from other effects which modify unarmed strikes. "As an action, you can make two unarmed attacks. These attacks deal damage equal to your Strength modifier plus 1 (minimum 1) on a hit. If at least one of these attacks hits, you can make an additional such attack as a bonus action."
• Basic Moves: What action do the moves require? Can you choose to use leg sweep and uppercut after you know whether the attack hits (like smite)?
• I like Agility. A half-speed disengage isn't a lot, but it's enough to move around.
• Toasty! gives a huge spike in Kombo points (1d20 compared to the maximum of 4 previously possible in a single turn, or 5 possible with Enhanced Kombo a level later) but critical hits aren't common enough to rely on it so it's probably fine. Just swingy.
• Enhanced Kombo: It becomes extra important here to have the tighter wording; Kombatant 5/Monk XX basically gets a free Extra Attack (2) and Flurry of Blows at will, but also retains the ability to make monk unarmed strikes (or up to d8 with them).
• Finish Him! is like Toasty! in that it provides a great variance in Kombo point generation but it's more controllable. It's interesting to me that there isn't any other feature in 5e that requires or benefits from attacking an already-defeated opponent.
• Can you wait to use Round Two Fight after seeing if you succeed on your death save or do you have to do it before making it?
• Flawless Victory is pretty unlikely to happen in most normal play, especially since the class doesn't have any form of healing. Block can carry them a long way but incidental damage is still going to happen. Still, it is faithful to the source to include it.
• Fatality is interesting. The thought of someone using it on a tarrasque or an ancient red dragon tickles me, and I can't really complain about it breaking the balance of the game too much when it is competing with the likes of Wish.

Overall it's got a clear structure and theme, and it delivers on that theme quite well. The only things I'm worried about are the swingy generation of Kombo points through inspiration and the potential for abuse when combining Kombo with other features that enhance unarmed attacks (a lizardfolk kombatant will be doing 12.5 damage more on a full Kombo than any other race at level 5).

Spoiler: The Monster

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Looking over this puts me in the mind of World of Darkness (Beast: the Primordial). I haven't actually played that splat yet but I've had an interest.

• Monstrous Weakness: Even assuming you're choosing your weaknesses to fit theme instead of to exploit the mechanic, Creature, Substance, or Plant are probably going to be a lot easier to avoid than Energy or Item. Energy also doesn't explain how to calculate for instantaneous effects (if my Weakness is Cold, obviously I am affected by Cone of Cold, but I can't end my turn within 5 feet of an effect that isn't persistent). If a player isn't operating in good faith, they could choose something like Creature(Tarrasque) that prevents them from ever coming up against their weakness unless the DM is willing to commit to killing the whole party.
• Natural Weapons: Additional Claws. Is there a limit on the number of additional claws I can grow, or could I be a murderpede with 7 pairs of claws if I wanted? Multiattack would mean 14 attacks evil laughter.
• Rending Claws grants a benefit for hitting with both claws when taken (as early as level 1), but does not offer a way to hit with both claws until multiattack at level 5. Allowing a bonus action attack with the off-hand claw seems to be the intent, but isn't mentioned in the description.
• Unnatural Assault's level 5 bonus action option is probably not necessary; the Instinct bonus already allows it to remain competitive with other limited-use damage options. It implies that you can take unnatural assault multiple times but does not mention that anywhere in the feature.
• Expressive Assault: changing a damage type is nice but not worth a whole Aspect in my opinion.
• Assailing Wave: Allowing a monster to take this feature more than once to get more frequent usage would be nice.
• Stunning Assault: I don't like the expenditure to extend. From a gameplay standpoint stunned is too strong for such a wide and long duration effect, and from a narrative standpoint the duration should be locked in when the effect happens.
• Fearsome Mien: Creatures should get follow-up saves in certain conditions (such as at the end of each of their turns or when you or your allies attack them).
• Multiple Heads: Could you expand the example to indicate circumstances which would allow 3 or more bite attacks?

I did read through the Archetypes and my only concern there is there seems to be a gap for aggressive predatory monsters (like manticores or dragons). Hulk is probably the closest option for building something like that as it stands now, but a dedicated Predator subclass would be nice. Overall you've got a really solid framework here, but you rely on players making their choices to fit a theme instead of for mechanical benefits more than I'm accustomed to seeing.

Spoiler: The Shaman

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I think your link points to an older version of your document; I'm seeing a table for "The Accompanied". I'll check back periodically and get a review up when the link is fixed.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Feedback time! Splitting the contest into two halves; I'll get the other classes tomorrow.

Spoiler: The Monster

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Looking over this puts me in the mind of World of Darkness (Beast: the Primordial). I haven't actually played that splat yet but I've had an interest.

• Monstrous Weakness: Even assuming you're choosing your weaknesses to fit theme instead of to exploit the mechanic, Creature, Substance, or Plant are probably going to be a lot easier to avoid than Energy or Item. Energy also doesn't explain how to calculate for instantaneous effects (if my Weakness is Cold, obviously I am affected by Cone of Cold, but I can't end my turn within 5 feet of an effect that isn't persistent). If a player isn't operating in good faith, they could choose something like Creature(Tarrasque) that prevents them from ever coming up against their weakness unless the DM is willing to commit to killing the whole party.
• Natural Weapons: Additional Claws. Is there a limit on the number of additional claws I can grow, or could I be a murderpede with 7 pairs of claws if I wanted? Multiattack would mean 14 attacks evil laughter.
• Rending Claws grants a benefit for hitting with both claws when taken (as early as level 1), but does not offer a way to hit with both claws until multiattack at level 5. Allowing a bonus action attack with the off-hand claw seems to be the intent, but isn't mentioned in the description.
• Unnatural Assault's level 5 bonus action option is probably not necessary; the Instinct bonus already allows it to remain competitive with other limited-use damage options. It implies that you can take unnatural assault multiple times but does not mention that anywhere in the feature.
• Expressive Assault: changing a damage type is nice but not worth a whole Aspect in my opinion.
• Assailing Wave: Allowing a monster to take this feature more than once to get more frequent usage would be nice.
• Stunning Assault: I don't like the expenditure to extend. From a gameplay standpoint stunned is too strong for such a wide and long duration effect, and from a narrative standpoint the duration should be locked in when the effect happens.
• Fearsome Mien: Creatures should get follow-up saves in certain conditions (such as at the end of each of their turns or when you or your allies attack them).
• Multiple Heads: Could you expand the example to indicate circumstances which would allow 3 or more bite attacks?

I did read through the Archetypes and my only concern there is there seems to be a gap for aggressive predatory monsters (like manticores or dragons). Hulk is probably the closest option for building something like that as it stands now, but a dedicated Predator subclass would be nice. Overall you've got a really solid framework here, but you rely on players making their choices to fit a theme instead of for mechanical benefits more than I'm accustomed to seeing.

Thanks so much for your feedback, I've been waiting for some with baited breath but I realize the world at large has a lot more important stuff going on.

I'll answer your last point first RE: themed building vs minmaxing.
-I don't think this will be as big a problem as a lot of folks make it out to be. If you have a problem player that looks to break things this will hardly be the first class that presents such opportunity. I think most players would rather really try to recreate their favorite monster, or create a really interesting one, more than just find the biggest pile of dice. I've been blessed with great players that want to work together to tell a fun story, I know that's not always the case, but even then, put this side by side with the Oath of Glory or Necromancer Wizard and it's probably not too crazy.

Now from the top:

Spoiler: weakness

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The point of the weakness is for the DM to heighten tension when appropriate or reign you in if your build peaks a little early. While it's intended to be player's choice a DM can always let them know what will fly at the table. As for Plants vs Energies etc. If a player chooses wolfsbane, peasants probably carry that to ward off lycanthropes, it might be growing nearby (or planted by townsfolk for the above reason). If they choose an energy it's far more likely they'll suffer the Branding effect, 10 damage is not hard to deal with a spell and the effect is brutal. Like cut and run brutal, but they can have party members help them.

Also, a DM should never forget that omnipotence has its privileges.

If my player said "Weakness: Creature: Tarrasque" I'd remind them that the Tarrasque rests in the earth, it could be anywhere underfoot at any time as it becomes more active. So they could find themselves wilting at any moment.
I might make it their destiny to face the Tarrasque in mortal combat, perhaps it's a natural predator and they are a delicacy, or a rival, or maybe it's their mom. They might constantly push the party to be pirates and go to sea to try and avoid this weakness only for the legendary Everblood Phial (a few drops of T-Blood used as a holy symbol by the evil cleric) to be brandished in a final battle. That's a fun idea and I appreciate the inspiration, thanks!

Spoiler: Natural Weapons and Rending Claws

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Jeremy Crawford recently posted to twitter about natural weapons and off hand attacks, I think (and was kind of wrong IIRC). Even if he hadn't, I thought the baseline was use 2 weapon fighting rules for any offhand attack. Monk MA allows you to add ability mod. TWFighting style allows you add ability mod, this class provides neither but multiattack fills the niche at 5. While your Murderpede is absolutely in the confines of what's possible, I'd discourage going that way for the same reason I encourage a Necromancer to limit the # of skeletons they wander around with (but at least they can pass them off). 14 attacks/turn won't be fun for other players and will probably get a little boring (though a poisonous murderpede creeper that makes 6 attacks wouldn't be too egregious). As a DM I'd probably limit the # of claws to the number of limbs your base race has and allow you to buy more by taking Tentacle/Tail for each additional limb. So if you started with Centaur you'd have 6 ready to go and could kit them out by level 3 and that makes more sense to me narratively as I picture a millipede rearing up leaving half it's legs on the ground for stability. If you bought an extra tail you could grapple like you're coiling around the target and oh I may vomit...

Spoiler: Unnatural Assault

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And we're back. Paragraph 1, last sentence says you can take it multiple times for different attack types, I'll have to start a new paragraph there. I know for sure you're supposed to be able to use Unnatural Assault as a bonus action when you use unnatural assault (so you could shoot two eye rays for example). Note: using it as a bonus action denies you the ability to scale it up so it's basically like a quickened cantrip and a pew pew option appeals to the warlock player in me. I need to clarify stunning assault that you can only enhance it when you use your action to do it.

Spoiler: Expressive Assault

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This should have a sentence indicating you spend a point of Monstrous Instinct to enhance it the way you enhance Unnatural Assault (kinda like a smite).

Spoiler: Assailing Wave

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I wanted to leave this is a 1/encounter type ability. It's really so amazing as is since Unnatural Assault is an attack roll instead of a save and this doesn't change that, so that's numerous crit chances akin to steel wind strike.

Spoiler: Stunning Assault

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Combined with Assailing Wave this is explicitly the Mindflayer Mindblast combo. It's deliberately very costly, more so than a monk's stunning strike. Trying to use it to lock down 3 enemies for 3 rounds is the absolute limit you could achieve in an encounter at 17th, and they're still saving every round. 1 Monstrous Instinct per target, and another 1 for a chance to extend, but that means you can limit the stun to preferred targets (like the enemy caster). It limits the effectiveness but gives the player more control.

Spoiler: Fearsome Mien

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As an 18th level fear effect I thought a minute of fear was fair. I was always so put off by the Dragon Sorc ability which is costly and weak.

Spoiler: Multiple Heads

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The example of a Hydra.
Extra Heads (for the 6 heads) and Bite @ level 1. Limit 1 bite attack.
What Large Teeth @ 3rd. Still 1 Bite attack.
Multiattack @ 5th. 3 Bite attacks (2 bite aspects and 1 multiple heads aspect)
Two Heads are Better at 6th. 4 Bite attacks (2 bite aspects and 2 multiple heads aspects)
What Large Teeth 2 @ 10th. 5 Bite attacks (3 bite aspects and 2 multiple heads aspects)
Swallow @ 15th. 6 Bite Attacks (all the Bite aspects and both multiple head aspects)
You've probably been killed long before now though because you had 0 versatility.

Spoiler: preferred hydra build

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probably Goliath for reach on your turn
1 Hulk Archetype, multiple heads, Bite
3 Natural Armor
6 Bite d8
10 Natural Armor again if dex is bad or Monstrous Vitality
15 Mystic Powers (Regeneration Spell, Cloudkill, maybe Enlarge/Reduce)
18 Bite d12 (now making 5 attacks/round, 4 bites and a d4 punch/slam as a bonus action)

Again, thank you so much for your insights and critique. Now, I have some editing to do.

[MoleMage]

Some more feedback!

Spoiler: Metahuman

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I don't know why my gut instinct is to assume superheroes don't mix with high fantasy. They're just people with unique and barely explainable powers for the most part. They should be right at home!

General

• Costume and Get Off My Planet! are both missing their level gained in the description.
• Speedster: Superspeed as written imposes limitations on the basic Dash in addition to the special Dash as a bonus action which it grants. Is that intentional?
• Speedster: Faster than a Speeding...'s description seems to be missing a word. Is it supposed to be "In any round you may spend a Speed Burst to [...]"? Either way, this is way to strong, even buried at level 14. Compare Action Surge, which is the same effect but only can be done twice at level 17; Faster than a Speeding could be done 14 times when it is gained.
• Kinetics: Energy Blast doesn't specify the range at which you can create the sphere, cone, or line. If it centers on you, keep in mind that by default a sphere includes its origin so you can't use sphere without potentially harming yourself (though you'll have resistance and may regain 1d10 hit points if you make your own save).

For the most part the core features look fine. The only concern I have is that the class doesn't have much in the way of a clear mechanical identity in its core features (the subclasses have plenty), so much as it get a bunch of unrelated features covering different parts of superhero fiction.

Powers

• Blur of Speed and Quick Hands have the phrasing "you may do X when you spend a Speed Burst". As I read it, you can do those things whenever you spend a Speed Burst to do something else, but the intent seems to be you can spend a Speed Burst to do those things. Instead, try a wording of "You can spend a Speed Burst to X"
• Quick Recovery should specify that it lets you use Superspeed 2 rounds in a row; the basic Dash action (taken as an action) doesn't have restrictions.
• Shake the Earth, Shockwave Clap, In a Single Bound should specify what action (or no action) type is needed to use them.
• This is Something I Have to Do Myself should stop functioning when you have 0 hit points.
• How does Hidden Weakness interact with features that grant resistance or immunity to that element (whether racial, magic item, or from Kinetics or Nigh-Invulnerability)?

This class's frame does allow you to build yourself into a signature style, but it feels like some powers are must-gets (Something I Have to Do Myself, Speed Fighting, Durable Skin, Elemental Manipulator and Secondary Mutation). It's the same issue with the baseline warlock having semi-mandatory Invocation taxes. That said, when I was looking back through them to get examples, there's still a lot of variety possible, so you're probably okay.

Spoiler: Gunslinger

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Crafting a signature weapon definitely fits the theme. Having it be a gun gives you space to work in without stepping on the toes of other creatures.

• Gunsmithing doesn't put a limit on the amount of ammunition you can stockpile. A weight, size, or cost would be appropriate options here if you don't want to impose arbitrary limitations.
• I like your tables for generating the baseline firearm. Right out the gate you're choosing what sort of gun you'll be slinging (for me I think I'd go with a double-barrel, Lowest Range, Two-Handed, Reload 2). I am curious why the table goes up to 11 when choosing the highest modifier option in each table gives a result of 9. I assume modifications are involved.
• Looking back at the feature description, Personal Creation doesn't specify what the limit on crafting firearms is, how long it takes, or how much it costs. Can I make more than one gun?
• Extra Attack is odd; if you didn't take Reload you can't really benefit from it using your firearm because of the loading property. I assume some modifications will also grant you things to do with the other attack.
• Quickdraw implies you can use Personal Creation to create additional guns, so Personal Creation should list a cost and time for doing so.
• Spellshot: Arcane Shot is significantly weaker than Divine/Eldritch Smite pre-18 and significantly stronger at 18. Is that intentional?

I'm always fond of tinker classes and this is no exception. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Modifications section.

Spoiler: Crusader

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Your table is throwing me a bit. Does this class not get Ability Score Increases?

• Giving the class proficiency in exactly two skills really limits it. In fact, no other class in 5e gives a static skill proficiency. Even rogues have to pick stealth or get it from their background (though with 4 skills that's not a huge limitation for them). What about Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight? Those are all fairly crusadery as well.
• Level 1 characters should not have access to Full Plate. Heavy armor users start with Chain Mail instead.
• Does Endow have a limit on number of items or a duration? Otherwise this class is basically proficient in Tools: All and Instruments: All.
• Several Signatures are very powerful to be tied to a single melee attack. Torturer especially, considering the heap of penalties tied to the restrained condition.
• Miracle should provide an example of the rough power level appropriate to Miracle (as Clerics' Divine Intervention does).
• Animate Shield comes very late in the class and isn't a huge change in their actions (now they can hold their weapon in one hand and their brush in the other, but their weapon is probably being used with Animate anyway). It also doesn't specify a duration, suggesting that I can animate my shield once and it is permanently animated from then on out.
• The class is too dependent on Animate to provide any function in combat. Without it, they can make one weapon attack (admittedly, they can use any weapon they want) on their turn and have better health and armor than most other classes, but that's it. Giving the class something to do without expending their single shared resource pool would go a long way.

Overall, the writing style for this class feels like an older edition (3.5 or maybe AD&D though I didn't do much of that). 5e doesn't tend to use terms like Per Day anymore (it favors "you regain all uses on a short/long rest"), and Ability Score Improvements are treated as class features rather than a normal part of leveling up, meaning you have to include them in the table (Fighters and Rogues even get extras) and if you multiclass you explicitly don't get Ability Score Improvements until a specific individual class grants them.

That said, I can understand the intent of the class, and honestly I hoped someone would interpret this contest with a class that required writing something on enemies, so that's pretty cool. Signature gives a good mix of combat and utility, meaning the class would be interesting to play...until you run out of signature since you have no features which can function without your limited resource. I would look at mixing up the class a bit with features that aren't Signature-dependent.

[ARTHAN]

@Molemage: Thank you for your honest review and yes, the class has a 3.5 feeling on it because it is the edition I started with and, despite 4th being my favorite edition, the influence of 3.5 is obvious on Crusader. I thought that, in 5th edition, proficiencies and ability score increases were fixed for all classes but it seems I misunderstood some things of the edition. I also noticed that I used once the term "standard action" which is not a 5th edition term.

1) Indeed, Religion and Intimidation limit crusader but, taking into account the power of Endow, I don't think they are so limited skill-wise. They are excellent battle musicians, for example.

2) Indeed, but when I think of Crusader I think of a full-plate with a big red cross on it and/or a heavy shield with a big red cross on it. I can't help it! I know that balance-wise is wrong... After all, level 1 & 2 in 5th edition are farmed really fast and the real game begin at level 3. Ok, enough with the excuses, I will try to fix this without ruining the theme.

3) The Cross-like Signatures have not a duration or a limit, including Endow. However, anyone near or adjacent to the Endowed item who scratches or ruins even slightly the Signature cross by any means destroys the power of the Signature cross (but he/she/it must spend an action to do so but that action can be theoretically performed even during combat). That means a Crusader who wears/holds/uses an item may suddenly finds himself/herself in a combat situation where he has no proficiency with the respective item and the Crusader will need to either take our his drawing brush (or holy knife) to create the Signature cross from scratch (by spending an action to do so) to the respective item or fight without having proficiency with the item. Now, imagine a Crusader in full-plate and someone ruining the marvelous signature of his armor... The Crusader is in his/her full-plate without the proficiency, full-plate is not an item that can be just dropped and iirc that means disadvantage to almost everything Crusader is doing (till he take out his brush or knife to fix the problem with an action and by wasting a usage of the Signature/Day).

4) You absolutely can not tie several signatures to a single attack. Sorry for not making this clear. A signature cross would either be Endow or Lock (if you are level 2 Crusader or higher) or Banisher (if you are level 3 Crusader or higher) or Comprehend (if you are level 4 Crusader or higher) etc. but not all these things together.

5) Actually, that is exactly the power I had in my mind while writing down Miracle; Cleric's Divine Intervention. Miracle would just be a little more powerful than Divine Intervention but not much. Maybe I need to analyze this power a little bit more.

6) Animate Shield comes indeed late to the game but it is indeed permanent; you sleep, you wake up and the shield stays there, animated...

7) Actually I think I see where the misunderstanding comes. I wrote "you attack X times with your bonus action" while I meant "your animated weapon attacks X times with your bonus action". I think that explains a lot and sorry for this...

I think I may have to change a few things here and there to make Crusader a more proper submission. In general, I really thank you for your kind words and I will really try to improve in the future.

[sengmeng]

Spoiler: Kombatant

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Gotta say this isn't what I expected, though a signature fighting style or finishing move definitely fits the theme.

• The wording on Kombo could be tightened a bit to prevent stacking abuse from other effects which modify unarmed strikes. "As an action, you can make two unarmed attacks. These attacks deal damage equal to your Strength modifier plus 1 (minimum 1) on a hit. If at least one of these attacks hits, you can make an additional such attack as a bonus action."
• Basic Moves: What action do the moves require? Can you choose to use leg sweep and uppercut after you know whether the attack hits (like smite)?
• I like Agility. A half-speed disengage isn't a lot, but it's enough to move around.
• Toasty! gives a huge spike in Kombo points (1d20 compared to the maximum of 4 previously possible in a single turn, or 5 possible with Enhanced Kombo a level later) but critical hits aren't common enough to rely on it so it's probably fine. Just swingy.
• Enhanced Kombo: It becomes extra important here to have the tighter wording; Kombatant 5/Monk XX basically gets a free Extra Attack (2) and Flurry of Blows at will, but also retains the ability to make monk unarmed strikes (or up to d8 with them).
• Finish Him! is like Toasty! in that it provides a great variance in Kombo point generation but it's more controllable. It's interesting to me that there isn't any other feature in 5e that requires or benefits from attacking an already-defeated opponent.
• Can you wait to use Round Two Fight after seeing if you succeed on your death save or do you have to do it before making it?
• Flawless Victory is pretty unlikely to happen in most normal play, especially since the class doesn't have any form of healing. Block can carry them a long way but incidental damage is still going to happen. Still, it is faithful to the source to include it.
• Fatality is interesting. The thought of someone using it on a tarrasque or an ancient red dragon tickles me, and I can't really complain about it breaking the balance of the game too much when it is competing with the likes of Wish.

Overall it's got a clear structure and theme, and it delivers on that theme quite well. The only things I'm worried about are the swingy generation of Kombo points through inspiration and the potential for abuse when combining Kombo with other features that enhance unarmed attacks (a lizardfolk kombatant will be doing 12.5 damage more on a full Kombo than any other race at level 5).

Thanks for the feedback! I have adjusted the Kombo wording and clarified that spending Kombo Points is not an action, but rather that it enhances an action, or in the case of the Flip Jump is intended to be a free action or non-action as a bit of movement that doesn't count against your normal speed; still not sure if that got across correctly.

I also realized that I forgot the actual description for "Backstory Reveal," the tenth level feature. The lone utility feature, it grants you the proficiencies of a background of your choice, but not the feature or equipment.

[Lanth Sor]

Updated the link, sorry I forgot last time.

[BerzerkerUnit]

MoleMage,

I'm doing my editing and I reviewed your last point about archetypes. I'm not sure what you're leaning toward RE: predator class. When I conceived of the archetypes I thought a lot about predators natural and supernatural.

They really seem to be divided between big strong types (Like most Great Cats and bears) and stealth types (like snakes, spiders, and... smaller cats). Predatory Aspects are how you make 1 Hulk a Giant and another a Dragon and separate a Displacer Beast Creeper from a Shadow Demon Creeper.

Notably, Hulks are not penalized when performing stealth operations and nothing prevents you from choosing Centaur or Bugbear or Goliath as a Creeper to really fill a doorway when you need to. I benefited greatly from the earlier critique so I wouldn't mind some elaboration on this point if you get the chance.

[MoleMage]

I guess to my mind there's a space for a third type of predator that is about the chase. Not large or stealthy, but cunning, fast, and efficient. You're right though the hulk gives enough tools to allow you to fill that market if you combine it with the right aspects.

[Lanth Sor]

So currently i have 4 Callings(Archetypes) one for Totems Everywhere, one for Earth and Fire Blaster, one for Storm Mage, and one for Restoration and Water Magic.

[Leathalsandwich]

Sry all, I have to withdraw from this competition because life got in the way. I’m sure my silence and lack of updates might have clued you in but, life has gotten hectic at the moment and I haven’t had a chance to finish the Gunslinger as of now. And don’t feel I will be able to soon.

[MoleMage]

Feedback for Shaman (sorry it took me so long)

Spoiler: Shaman

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I've seen a couple of different shaman classes, but I don't think I've ever seen a full caster Spells Known Shaman before.

• I'm guessing that totems are the signature trait of the Shaman that ties them to the theme? Everyone went in different directions on this theme I'm starting to lose track of what it even is.
• Totem Spells is a long feature but I guess it has to be. It does need clarification on two points: What type of action is required to place the totem and what duration the totem has if not ended early. I'd also like it to be clearer that each totem placed represents a single spell; right now it feels like the Shaman can cast any Shaman spell through any active totem (unless the latter is how it's supposed to work in which case it should be stated explicitly).
• The ability to cast two spells at once seems too strong, but it may depend on what type of action is required to place totems (If I have to burn two actions getting the totems down, I'm only breaking even on turn 4 compared to other spellcasters, which is as long as many combats).
• I am a little concerned about the level of power in buff totems. A couple examples from the Shaman list (assuming that totems can't be used for spells from other sources): Dominate Beast, Hold Person, Protection from Energy. On top of these now being area spells (and fairly large ones assuming they use the normal spell range instead of a specific aura size), the debuff spells now refresh their duration after a creature makes its save if it is still in the area.

• Storm Strikes should probably require the damaging spell normally be one that can be activated as an action. I can't think of any counterexamples though so you might be safe.
• Storms' Resilience is going to be up pretty frequently for its effect. I'd make it specific damage types, or variable damage types (resistance to any type of damage you have dealt or received since the start of your last turn).
• I like Lightning Stride; I feel like more spells should get unique benefits from upcasting and this is a pseudo-spell.
• Avatar of the Maelstrom lets you cast lightning bolt, but lightning bolt is not on the shaman spell list (lightning bolt should probably be on the shaman spell list).

• Is there a limit on Water Shell? As written you could stack all your healing on people and never have to worry about putting down totems.
• Cleansing Deluge Totem: As written you could do, for example, Cleansing Deluge Call Lightning and give call lightning's effects to everyone in a 10 foot radius. Is that intended?
• Purifying Warding: As with Totem Spells, needs an action and duration in the description. In its specific case it also needs a size.

• Totemic Placement: Does this allow the shaman to cast more spells or just set down totems?
• The rest of this calling feels a little uninteresting until Totemic Mastery when suddenly the class can basically throw down 5 spells a round starting on the second round of any combat. That's far and away the strongest capstone I can imagine. It's bonkers.

• Earth Shock! Well old school Earth Shock before they moved the interrupt to Wind Shear. (I played a Shaman when I was active in WoW).
• Lava Burst is pretty limited since the class has no way to reliably get advantage on spell attacks.
• Claim the Land is confusing to me. You spend a 3rd level spell slot and deal 2 damage in an area around all totems, then you can spend another 3rd level slot to deal 5d6 in an area around 1 totem? That is a lot of spell slot for not a lot of output.
• Molten Core says you extend the cast time of a spell by one step, but 5e doesn't have an easy conversion for that (the only real measurement of cast time is "Action"). If you mean you have to take an extra action it might be conditionally worth it (maximized meteor swarm is possible, but meteor swarm twice is not).
• Avatar of Earth's Fury: as with Avatar of the Maelstrom, you gain the ability to cast spells at will which are not on the shaman list (fireball in this case).

I like the class, and I like the idea of totems, but the wording of the features could use a clean up. I'd also consider making specific totems with unique effects instead of tying them to spells, but I have a complexity addiction which has been well documented throughout these contests.

[MoleMage]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...-Voting-Thread

The voting thread has been created! Three weeks to pick your favorites.

[MoleMage]

It's time to call it, and tally it, and declare our winners!

In 3rd place, with 5 points earned, it's Lvl45DM!'s Metahuman! Be your own superhero.

In 2nd place, with 7 points earned, it's sengmeng's Kombatant! Develop a unique blend of your favorite fighting styles, and use them all to get a FATALITY!

And our winner, with 8 points earned, it's MoleMage's Chef! Cook up a signature dish right in the middle of combat. Some of them give fire breath!

For contest we had the following votes (since I didn't ask for ranked votes I am counting all of them equally):

Hybrid Vigor: 2 votes
Divine Judgment: 1 vote (new theme)
Dragons: 1 vote
Science: 1 vote
Partial Casters: 1 vote

So I guess we're doing Hybrid Vigor next! I'll have the new chat and contest threads up soon, so keep your eyes open!

Contest concluded! See the new entry thread here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...9#post24632299

And the new chat thread here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...6#post24632306

[Lanth Sor]

Response to Molemage

MM: I've seen a couple of different shaman classes, but I don't think I've ever seen a full caster Spells Known Shaman before.

me: :D

MM: I'm guessing that totems are the signature trait of the Shaman that ties them to the theme? Everyone went in different directions on this theme I'm starting to lose track of what it even is.
Totem Spells is a long feature but I guess it has to be.

me: Yeah it was a mountain to start with.

MM: It does need clarification on two points: What type of action is required to place the totem and what duration the totem has if not ended early.

me: It is the same action as casting the spell. I did specify, but if its not obvious then I need to do better.

MM: I'd also like it to be clearer that each totem placed represents a single spell; right now it feels like the Shaman can cast any Shaman spell through any active totem (unless the latter is how it's supposed to work in which case it should be stated explicitly).
The ability to cast two spells at once seems too strong, but it may depend on what type of action is required to place totems (If I have to burn two actions getting the totems down, I'm only breaking even on turn 4 compared to other spellcasters, which is as long as many combats).

me: When a totem is placed you designate a spell, then you spend your bonus action to activate the spell.

MM: I am a little concerned about the level of power in buff totems. A couple examples from the Shaman list (assuming that totems can't be used for spells from other sources): Dominate Beast, Hold Person, Protection from Energy. On top of these now being area spells (and fairly large ones assuming they use the normal spell range instead of a specific aura size), the debuff spells now refresh their duration after a creature makes its save if it is still in the area.

me: So buff totems last the normal spell duration. They apply their effect to the target each round, but leaving the range of the totem ends the duration at the start of their next turn. So how dominate would work, is you would dominate something in range of your totem, and it would stay dominated as long as the duration didn't end and the totem was in range. The key is the totem is stationary for the most part. I am looking at rebuilding the spell list.

MM: Storm Strikes should probably require the damaging spell normally be one that can be activated as an action. I can't think of any counterexamples though so you might be safe.

me: None of the core rule book ones break this, but I see your point.

MM: Storms' Resilience is going to be up pretty frequently for its effect. I'd make it specific damage types, or variable damage types (resistance to any type of damage you have dealt or received since the start of your last turn).

me: The idea was to turn them into a good replacement for having a barbarian to tank stuff for you. But I can see the issue. I like the any type of damage you have dealt or recieved since start of

MM: I like Lightning Stride; I feel like more spells should get unique benefits from upcasting and this is a pseudo-spell.

me: I too found this to be something bizarrely lacking. Like why cast 9th level fireball when I could cast a 9th level spell that does damage way cooler.

MM: Avatar of the Maelstrom lets you cast lightning bolt, but lightning bolt is not on the shaman spell list (lightning bolt should probably be on the shaman spell list).

me: I gave them lighting blot as it fits the aesthetic of what the class would be able to do, being a living storm, I get the disonance, may make some path specific bonus spells to really sell it.

MM: Is there a limit on Water Shell? As written you could stack all your healing on people and never have to worry about putting down totems.

me: Yes there is, as Water shell is a type of totem so it is caped by proficiency bonus. I added a line specifying that they count as totems.

MM: Cleansing Deluge Totem: As written you could do, for example, Cleansing Deluge Call Lightning and give call lightning's effects to everyone in a 10 foot radius. Is that intended?

me: I probally should make a hard list of spells, but the idea is its suppose to be spells like casting cure wounds, restoration etc. I did change it to specify nondamaging spells.

MM: Purifying Warding: As with Totem Spells, needs an action and duration in the description. In its specific case it also needs a size.

me: The duration is as long as the totems are placed. The size is how ever large of space you are willing to place. IE if you place your 5 totems 1 mile apart the area would be 1 mile radius. The issue is you have to physically place all the totems that far apart. I thought about needing an action but your already spending 5 setting each totem down.

MM: Totemic Placement: Does this allow the shaman to cast more spells or just set down totems?

me: It allows multiple totems to be placed at one time, which is like casting 2 spells at once at the level it is gained. May need to nerf that to have per long rest uses.

MM:The rest of this calling feels a little uninteresting until Totemic Mastery when suddenly the class can basically throw down 5 spells a round starting on the second round of any combat. That's far and away the strongest capstone I can imagine. It's bonkers.

me: The calling is mostly for those that want to go ham on the totems as a tactical tool. So they get to do dumb **** in the last boss fight.

MM: Earth Shock! Well old school Earth Shock before they moved the interrupt to Wind Shear. (I played a Shaman when I was active in WoW).

me: Yeah shaman make me happy too.

MM: Lava Burst is pretty limited since the class has no way to reliably get advantage on spell attacks.

me: I'll have to look into that.

MM: Claim the Land is confusing to me. You spend a 3rd level spell slot and deal 2 damage in an area around all totems, then you can spend another 3rd level slot to deal 5d6 in an area around 1 totem? That is a lot of spell slot for not a lot of output.

me: I didn't set a minimum level for the 2 damage, so it could be 1st level. The flare up deals damage on par with fireball which my understanding was intentionally overtuned.

MM: Molten Core says you extend the cast time of a spell by one step, but 5e doesn't have an easy conversion for that (the only real measurement of cast time is "Action"). If you mean you have to take an extra action it might be conditionally worth it (maximized meteor swarm is possible, but meteor swarm twice is not).

me: As a bonus action you may maximize the next fire or bludgeon spell you cast on the next turn. ?

MM: Avatar of Earth's Fury: as with Avatar of the Maelstrom, you gain the ability to cast spells at will which are not on the shaman list (fireball in this case).

me: I chose fireball as a short hand for Literally shooting molten rock at people. I get your concern, I think I'm going to leave it as I don't want the class to "wizard better" so to speak, which is why it doesn't have lightning bolt either.

MM: I like the class, and I like the idea of totems, but the wording of the features could use a clean up. I'd also consider making specific totems with unique effects instead of tying them to spells, but I have a complexity addiction which has been well documented throughout these contests.

me: I really like crunchy things too. Its why people look at me like mad man when I'm like "Got My Calc" and am playing a class that uses 10 different equations to determine damage and half are 10-25% increase. I love the Jarian wow classes. On whole sale it might be easier to mechanic the totems, but i also like the fear of god at "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?" statements. I also find myself playing The UNIVERSALLY BANNED Tinker class form WOW RPG cause I like crunching the number to make crazy devices.