Unearthed Arcana: Subclasses Revisited

[Segev]

Afraid not.

Though I can't speak for anyone else, my view that monks seem relatively similar to psionics stems primarily from all the psionic-like features that core 5e monks get. There's also the general fluff and feel of monks, chakra, chi, etc, but it's primarily from the base features.

- Stillness of Mind (shrug off mental influence)
- Tongue of the Sun and Moon ("touch the ki of other minds so that you understand all spoken languages")
- Diamond Soul (gain all mental saves, + Con)
- Empty Body (astral projection - literally your mind leaving your body for a while)

Monks are essentially about the mastery of one's own body and mind (more body than mind, but still). Psions are essentially about mastery of one's own mind. The similarities, both in the mechanics and the fluff, are right out there in the open for anyone who's willing to see them.

See, none of those feel "psionic" to me, so...I guess I just have to disagree with you. On the internet.

[Joe the Rat]

Part of my motivation on the parallel is efficiency of systems. Ki is an existing point resource, with inner strength and discipline (or harmony) vibes, that could easily adapt to other crazy not-spellcasting woojum powers.

(I also have no issues with introducing other classes using Superiority Dice, and am still waiting for another Pact Magic group, but...)

The funky psi die is the new mechanic du jour. I appreciate adding mechanical distinctiveness to a new system, though I do have reservations about the random nature as a key aspect of psionics.

[Segev]

Part of my motivation on the parallel is efficiency of systems. Ki is an existing point resource, with inner strength and discipline (or harmony) vibes, that could easily adapt to other crazy not-spellcasting woojum powers.

Maybe, but spell slots, by that logic, are already in place as something that can adapt to other "mental prowess" woojum powers, as well.

The funky psi die is the new mechanic du jour. I appreciate adding mechanical distinctiveness to a new system, though I do have reservations about the random nature as a key aspect of psionics.

I, too, appreciate the mechanical distinctiveness; I think having psionics have its own is important. I do hope that the random nature is something that is moderated in the psion class, itself, but I don't mind the random nature being the new flavor for psionics in general.

[HPisBS]

See, none of those feel "psionic" to me, so...I guess I just have to disagree with you. On the internet.

Ok. So, if Mental defenses, interacting directly with the speakers' Minds to understand them, and sending your Mind on a journey without its body don't feel psychic to you, then what would?

[Mr Adventurer]

Ok. So, if Mental defenses, overcoming the language barrier by interacting directly with the speaker's Mind, and sending your Mind on a journey without its body don't feel psychic to you, then what would?

You're substituting the word "mind" a whole lot there. I'm with Segev on this one.

[HPisBS]

You're substituting the word "mind" a whole lot there. I'm with Segev on this one.

Is your Astral self not your mind? Are charmed and frightened not mental effects (despite the feature's name being Stillness of Mind)?

If not, then what are they?

[Mr Adventurer]

Is your Astral self not your mind? Are charmed and frightened not mental effects (despite the feature's name being Stillness of Mind)?

If not, then what are they?

The DMG says that travellers to the Astral Plane travel as "disembodied souls", so, no, it's not just your mind.

Charmed and frightened are magical effects. There doesn't appear to be a "mindless" categorisation of creature as there was in 3.5e; from a natural language standpoint, being frightened can absolutely be a physical reaction, as can being charmed.

Despite all that, you'll notice you've had to significantly narrow down the features you're talking about; the presence of the word "mind" doesn't at all indicate psionic power, on its own.

[jaappleton]

I want to take a moment here and talk about the Genie Patron.

The Genie Patron might be the perfect Warlock patron.

Not in the sense that its perfect for every Warlock. But it is, IMO, borderline perfectly designed.

You have the base spell list. Solid list. And for each elemental genie type, an expanded list as appropriate for them.

Well, lets take a moment here and analyze that.

WHY did they do it that way? It covers so much, and it does it incredibly concisely.

Lets pause here for just a moment and move to the other features. Additional damage on a hit, of the corresponding elemental type. Who doesn't want that with their Warlock, free bonus damage? Yes, please.

Move on to the 6th level feature. Free flight, multiple times per day? Again, who is going to say that's a bad feature? Its a solid addition, and thematic. But its thematic not just for the genie types.

Level 10? Everyone can get a short rest, in a safe haven, after only 10 minutes. With additional healing on their hit dice. Again, solid. Especially for a Warlock that always wants a short rest. The Monk, Fighter, Cleric, Druid, etc are all going to love you for it, too.

Lv14, Limited Wish. An ace up your sleeve. Any spell, 6th level or lower, no cost.

Now, think of this:

It can be expanded even further. With some simple homebrew, essentially just picking 5 thematically appropriate spells, you can expand this Patron to cover essentially any damage type.

"I want to be a Psychic Warlock but I don't love GOO". "I really want to be a Radiant focused Warlock but I'm not really digging Celestial". Necrotic? Force? Acid?

It is so well written, I'm legitimately amazed.

Take just a moment to consider all the UA content over the years. Yes, some was a bit... much... coughLOREWIZARDcough.... And some was underwhelming, and even was still underwhelming when published (Looking at you, Arcane Archer).

This is so well done, and easily adaptable, its truly wonderful. Its incredibly concise in its design while also very broad. And that is very hard to do.

[HPisBS]

The DMG says that travellers to the Astral Plane travel as "disembodied souls", so, no, it's not just your mind.

Ok. Maybe it isn't; I'm not that up on DnD's lore for astral stuff. If astral projection is said to be not just your mind, but your soul, then I guess that one doesn't count as much as one might assume.

... Then again, the very first entry for "psychic" on Dictionary.com is "of or relating to the human soul or mind; mental (opposed to physical)"....

Charmed and frightened are magical effects. There doesn't appear to be a "mindless" categorisation of creature as there was in 3.5e; from a natural language standpoint, being frightened can absolutely be a physical reaction, as can being charmed.

The "mindless" thing isn't really relevant, but it seems to be (partially) represented by immunity to charmed and frightened. Most constructs seem to share that, other than duodrones, etc.

And I mean... they can be physical reactions insofar as the brain is actually a physical thing, and various chemicals stimulate the brain in those ways. But that isn't so relevant for the purpose of discussing psychic-like effects in a fantasy setting. Psychics are all about the the mind as a mysterious, enigmatic, ¿spiritual? force. Actual biology doesn't usually have much to do with it (unless it involves injuries or something, I guess).

you've had to significantly narrow down the features you're talking about

Huh? What had I narrowed down? You mean the language thing? If so, then no; I just don't like being that repetitive. I figured "you touch the ki of other minds" was explicit enough not to require further repetition. lol


Edit

I want to take a moment here and talk about the Genie Patron.
...
This is so well done, and easily adaptable, its truly wonderful. Its incredibly concise in its design while also very broad. And that is very hard to do.

Yep. If nothing else from this UA moves forward, it should definitely be this.

- Also, thanks for directing us back on topic. lol

[Millstone85]

Is your Astral self not your mind?

The DMG says that travellers to the Astral Plane travel as "disembodied souls", so, no, it's not just your mind.

That one is tough. The same sentence also introduces the Astral as "the realm of thought and dream", which is best illustrated on the next page: "A psychic wind is made up of lost memories, forgotten ideas, minor musings, and subconscious fears that went astray in the Astral Plane and conglomerated into this powerful force". So, personally, I would expect astral projection to be predominantly psychic in nature, even if the soul is taken along for the ride.

Are charmed and frightened not mental effects (despite the feature's name being Stillness of Mind)?

Charmed and frightened are magical effects.

Actually, they are conditions that may or may not be imposed by magic.

Though it is probably rare for a DM to tell a player that their character simply doesn't find the courage to take another step toward the enemy. No, there has got to be foul magic at play.

from a natural language standpoint, being frightened can absolutely be a physical reaction, as can being charmed.

And I mean... they can be physical reactions insofar as the brain is actually a physical thing, and various chemicals stimulate the brain in those ways. But that isn't so relevant for the purpose of discussing psychic-like effects in a fantasy setting. Psychics are all about the the mind as a mysterious, enigmatic, ¿spiritual? force. Actual biology doesn't usually have much to do with it (unless it involves injuries or something, I guess).

But if you do accept the brain as the organ of the mind within the body, as illithids would certainly agree, then of course ki would flow through it.

the presence of the word "mind" doesn't at all indicate psionic power, on its own.

I agree that it isn't enough for something to be mind-related. Psychic doesn't automatically mean psionic.

Now, I think the introduction of the UA got its fundamental points right:

• "Psionic powers arise from the user, rather than from an external source."
• "The powers associated with psi in D&D are like those that appear in other medias that feature psionic characters: telepathy, telekinesis, clairvoyance, and the like."

There was a third point, about using both spells and not-spells, but I would say that all spellcasters already do that in this edition.

Anyhow, I like the idea of a monk/mystic connection because, in addition to the aforementioned psychic features, ki is what IMO best captures the concept of an internal source of magic. No, not sorcery, at least not the way the PHB describes arcane and divine magic. Or, at the very least, ki is an internal source that is present in everyone, not just in those of a particular heritage.

Edit:

Also, thanks for directing us back on topic. lol

Sorry for undoing this rerailing. Also, I agree, the Genie is an awesome patron.

[Kane0]

I stand by the lamp and resting thing being better suited to being a pact boon with invocations, taking a leaf from pact of the talisman.

[Pex]

I want to take a moment here and talk about the Genie Patron.

The Genie Patron might be the perfect Warlock patron.

Not in the sense that its perfect for every Warlock. But it is, IMO, borderline perfectly designed.

You have the base spell list. Solid list. And for each elemental genie type, an expanded list as appropriate for them.

Well, lets take a moment here and analyze that.

WHY did they do it that way? It covers so much, and it does it incredibly concisely.

Lets pause here for just a moment and move to the other features. Additional damage on a hit, of the corresponding elemental type. Who doesn't want that with their Warlock, free bonus damage? Yes, please.

Move on to the 6th level feature. Free flight, multiple times per day? Again, who is going to say that's a bad feature? Its a solid addition, and thematic. But its thematic not just for the genie types.

Level 10? Everyone can get a short rest, in a safe haven, after only 10 minutes. With additional healing on their hit dice. Again, solid. Especially for a Warlock that always wants a short rest. The Monk, Fighter, Cleric, Druid, etc are all going to love you for it, too.

Lv14, Limited Wish. An ace up your sleeve. Any spell, 6th level or lower, no cost.

Now, think of this:

It can be expanded even further. With some simple homebrew, essentially just picking 5 thematically appropriate spells, you can expand this Patron to cover essentially any damage type.

"I want to be a Psychic Warlock but I don't love GOO". "I really want to be a Radiant focused Warlock but I'm not really digging Celestial". Necrotic? Force? Acid?

It is so well written, I'm legitimately amazed.

Take just a moment to consider all the UA content over the years. Yes, some was a bit... much... coughLOREWIZARDcough.... And some was underwhelming, and even was still underwhelming when published (Looking at you, Arcane Archer).

This is so well done, and easily adaptable, its truly wonderful. Its incredibly concise in its design while also very broad. And that is very hard to do.

Genie is fast becoming my favorite Warlock Patron. I'm itching to play one. What has escaped notice is it provides you a mini-bag of holding. You're allowed to bring stuff with you into your chamber and leave it there. You can only access it again after a long rest, but it's still a nice perk. You can store important things you don't need to access often or spontaneously.

[GorogIrongut]

Genie is fast becoming my favorite Warlock Patron. I'm itching to play one. What has escaped notice is it provides you a mini-bag of holding. You're allowed to bring stuff with you into your chamber and leave it there. You can only access it again after a long rest, but it's still a nice perk. You can store important things you don't need to access often or spontaneously.

More importantly, you could store all your bags of holding in there without fear of your bags going boom.

[Joe the Rat]

Genie is fast becoming my favorite Warlock Patron. I'm itching to play one. What has escaped notice is it provides you a mini-bag of holding. You're allowed to bring stuff with you into your chamber and leave it there. You can only access it again after a long rest, but it's still a nice perk. You can store important things you don't need to access often or spontaneously.

Very good catch on that. That's one heck of a camp store.

[Dork_Forge]

Genie is fast becoming my favorite Warlock Patron. I'm itching to play one. What has escaped notice is it provides you a mini-bag of holding. You're allowed to bring stuff with you into your chamber and leave it there. You can only access it again after a long rest, but it's still a nice perk. You can store important things you don't need to access often or spontaneously.

Seems like a good place to store potions, have your vessel carried by a party member to sneak you into somewhere, pop out when needed under the effects of whatever potion you have available and with your arms full of weapons to hand to your compatriots once they're past the checkpoints.