Unearthed Arcana: Subclasses Revisited

[stoutstien]

I think it's interesting that they limited it to damage types you can deal with another spell in your spellbook. Force damage is readily available with Magic Missile, but I can't think of a wizard spell that deals Radient damage off the top of my head.

Off the cuff I know Sickening radiance, sunbeam/burst, crown of stars, and wall of light all do radiant.
So from memory there at least one lv 4 spell that is both a solid pick on its own and adds radiant to the spell book.

[jaappleton]

Off the cuff I know Sickening radiance, sunbeam/burst, crown of stars, and wall of light all do radiant.
So from memory there at least one lv 4 spell that is both a solid pick on its own and adds radiant to the spell book.

It’s available at 1st level if your table allows the Ravnica backgrounds, as one grants Guiding Bolt.

[JumboWheat01]

This is my thought exactly. I'm just happy with the feature because we may actually see people use Elemental Adept for something other than Fire. This makes a Poison build viable, and even further makes builds focusing on less common damage types (Ice for example) possible.

I don't think Poison would be viable, considering the immunity to it. It has less resistances than Fire, but a lot more immunities. And as I learned when trying to do up a Green Draconic Sorcerer, Elemental Adept doesn't work with Poison damage. Also doesn't work against immunities, but that's neither here nor there.

[Kane0]

Those immunities are usually clumped into things like constructs, fiends and undead though. Should be mostly fine if you can avoid them.

[MaxWilson]

Those immunities are usually clumped into things like constructs, fiends and undead though. Should be mostly fine if you can avoid them.

Yeah, one interesting thing about LudicSavant's thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...olo-s-and-MToF) is that I never realized before just how many monsters are NOT immune or resistant to poison. 214 out of 726 creatures are poison-resistant or -immune, but that still leaves 512/726 that you can poison.

I guess I had the impression somehow that the fraction of immune creatures was closer to 1/2 than 1/3.

[JumboWheat01]

True, true. Guess I just ran into undead an awful lot.

[Nidgit]

Just realized you could go Genie Pact of the Chain for a turtle familiar and go full Coco Jumbo. Pairs nicely with a Way of the Astral Self Monk.

[Segev]

Just realized you could go Genie Pact of the Chain for a turtle familiar and go full Coco Jumbo. Pairs nicely with a Way of the Astral Self Monk.

If all you want is a turtle, wouldn't Pact of the Tome and Book of Secrets be better?

[Justin Sane]

I think it's interesting that they limited it to damage types you can deal with another spell in your spellbook. Force damage is readily available with Magic Missile, but I can't think of a wizard spell that deals Radient damage off the top of my head.

Off the cuff I know Sickening radiance, sunbeam/burst, crown of stars, and wall of light all do radiant.
So from memory there at least one lv 4 spell that is both a solid pick on its own and adds radiant to the spell book.

Full list of radiant Wizard spells:
Sickening Radiance, Dawn, Wall of Light, Sunbeam, Crown of Stars, Sunburst.

So no radiant damage before level 7, and that's by preparing a somewhat niche spell.

[Nidgit]

If all you want is a turtle, wouldn't Pact of the Tome and Book of Secrets be better?

While you can hear outside your vessel, you can't communicate to the outside through normal means. Voice of the Chain Master allows you to circumvent that and get some nice Requiem Polnareff action too.

Though you could probably get your DM to allow an imp or quasit familiar to shapeshift into a turtle because it's certainly no more powerful than what they're already capable of.

[werescythe]

I almost liked the Archivist subclass, then I read the last ability. For a class where you have to spend time and resources to gain most of your spells, to have an ability that locks you off from that spell for just 1 HP is just horrid. And only Wish can bring the spell(s) used for it back is also disappointing.

Definitely not a fan.

[micahaphone]

I almost liked the Archivist subclass, then I read the last ability. For a class where you have to spend time and resources to gain most of your spells, to have an ability that locks you off from that spell for just 1 HP is just horrid. And only Wish can bring the spell(s) used for it back is also disappointing.

Definitely not a fan.

That top level ability is only for a TPK, right? So that your wizard can come back, dip into the party coffers for some resurrections, and boom your party is alive again. I think if they clarified that using Wish's "recreate 8th level or lower" function was the part used to return spells, so that you don't risk losing Wish just to slowly repair your spellbook.


I'm still not a fan of the extra-bookish wizard being a better elemental caster than a draconic sorcerer, the elemental caster, but that particular ability doesn't rub me the wrong way.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I am digging this wizard; that come back to life but lose spells thing is a nifty tradeoff.

For the rogue, I think they should have swapped the 13th and 17th level benefits.

No, if you look at the way rogue subclasses work the level 17 power is almost always a big offense buff (see at Burglar, Scout, and Assassin).

[werescythe]

That top level ability is only for a TPK, right? So that your wizard can come back, dip into the party coffers for some resurrections, and boom your party is alive again. I think if they clarified that using Wish's "recreate 8th level or lower" function was the part used to return spells, so that you don't risk losing Wish just to slowly repair your spellbook.

From my experience if you're 14th level and your party is wiped, more then likely the thing that killed you will still be there a minute after, and will proceed to kill you again... and again... and again.

Personally I would rather have something that helps me avoid dying (granted the teleportation ability... sort of helps with that... sort of).

Again that is just my opinion. Personally I would rather have had them take one of the Omenancy abilities (since apparently they are getting rid of that subclass... which honestly is a shame) and apply that somehow.

[micahaphone]

From my experience if you're 14th level and your party is wiped, more then likely the thing that killed you will still be there a minute after, and will proceed to kill you again... and again... and again.

Personally I would rather have something that helps me avoid dying (granted the teleportation ability... sort of helps with that... sort of).

Again that is just my opinion. Personally I would rather have had them take one of the Omenancy abilities (since apparently they are getting rid of that subclass... which honestly is a shame) and apply that somehow.

Good point, as written this is only useful if you tpk and the enemy is severely wounded and retreats immediately after your wizard bites it. Way too niche.

Personally, I thought the onomancy wizard was way too dependent on a single save from an opponent, and the result was still too close to metamagic. Mostly, if you want true names to be a thing in your magic system, it needs to be baked in at the core level of the game, not briefly mentioned in the fluff of a subclass.

[animewatcha]

Just got done with the survey. And noticed something about the Metabolic control feat. Gain benefits of short rest by decreasing psionic die size. Translation: Monk -Spam Ki, meditate, Spam Ki, mediate, Spam Ki, Psi-ReplenishmentIf doable while 'unavailable' ( if not doable while 'unavailable' then it is an acknowledgement by WOTC that they STILL can't word things right and that this Psionic Die system shouldn't be used ) potentially move psi-replenishment up a couple of steps depending, Meditate, ki spam, etc. Adjust accordingly for other short rest classes. If possible pass method along other people until reaches WOTC or one of their celebrities people with influence in WOTC so that psionic Die system can be trashed and never touched again.

I believe Mike Mearls once tweeted that anything that is broken, he can counterbreak 5 times over when fans told him of concerns with OP domains or something. This shows quite some arrogance and while he is a player on occasion, he is SEVERELY underestimating the customer-player.

[Arkhios]

I believe Mike Mearls once tweeted that anything that is broken, he can counterbreak 5 times over when fans told him of concerns with OP domains or something. This shows quite some arrogance and while he is a player on occasion, he is SEVERELY underestimating the customer-player.

Mike Mearls hasn't been part of D&D design team for almost a year now. There might be a reason between the lines above.

[animewatcha]

I may have gotten the person wrong. It might have been Christopher Perkins. I can't bring it on google. It was definately involving talk about a domain posted on twitter kinda like domain posted in Unearthed Arcana.

-edit- Nope. It was Mike Mearls. found handy tool, but can't link
-edit2- Scrubbed the link,

[Amechra]

Just got done with the survey. And noticed something about the Metabolic control feat. Gain benefits of short rest by decreasing psionic die size. Translation: Monk -Spam Ki, meditate, Spam Ki, mediate, Spam Ki, Psi-ReplenishmentIf doable while 'unavailable' ( if not doable while 'unavailable' then it is an acknowledgement by WOTC that they STILL can't word things right and that this Psionic Die system shouldn't be used ) potentially move psi-replenishment up a couple of steps depending, Meditate, ki spam, etc. Adjust accordingly for other short rest classes. If possible pass method along other people until reaches WOTC or one of their celebrities people with influence in WOTC so that psionic Die system can be trashed and never touched again.

I believe Mike Mearls once tweeted that anything that is broken, he can counterbreak 5 times over when fans told him of concerns with OP domains or something. This shows quite some arrogance and while he is a player on occasion, he is SEVERELY underestimating the customer-player.

Except you can only use Metabolic Control like that once per long rest.

[Dr. Cliché]

I almost liked the Archivist subclass, then I read the last ability. For a class where you have to spend time and resources to gain most of your spells, to have an ability that locks you off from that spell for just 1 HP is just horrid. And only Wish can bring the spell(s) used for it back is also disappointing.

Definitely not a fan.

I'd have been on board if it just removed those spells from your spellbook. So you can potentially get them back, albeit at the cost of time and money (assuming there's a place to actually buy scrolls).

It would also reward a wizard who scribes a lot of extra spells into their spellbook, as they'd have a greater surplus of (somewhat) expendable spells to get rid of before needing to erase their most important ones.

However, preventing you from ever casting those spells again without using Wish just seems completely over the top. Especially for an effect that isn't even that great to begin with.

[Joe the Rat]

All in all, I think this is one of their better sets, and a dramatically better 2nd draft. Overall.

Phantom: A class option that requires a specific event (you died and came back) creates an unneeded requisite, or throwing "did I mention I died and came back to life" into the backstory. I'm glad they dropped that in favor of ONE explanation among many. The Soul Trinket mechanics is interesting - and I like a class that has an interesting, thematic element (psychometry + sticky fingers). Using it to fuel later powers is good. Ghost Walking brings Ghost Faced Killer and Phantom Assassin back onto the field. But most importantly: No Ghost Lasers. Yes, adding a cool trick to a Rogue is fun, but maybe on a theme where blasting things fits every interpretation. If you want to be Danny Phantom play an Undying Warlock.


Genie: Much cleaner, much more in tune, and the vessel is kind of neat. The only oddity is it is literally turning the Warlock into the genie - something that might fit better on a Sorcerer (for D&D lore), but is a common trope of genies in modern fiction - that mortals can be bound as genies. But I have always felt that Warlocks and Sorcerers have a blurry line of origin lore. Limited use Limited Wish. This is a 10/10 for me.


Scribe: Foundationally, this is a good generalist. You do spell book stuff better, ritual casting better, scribe scrolls better (which makes the artificer jealous!). You get the damage swapper, which is always going to have Force as an option because Magic Missile. Putting a use limiter (1/SR, Profmod / LR, Intmod / LR) would trim this back to reasonable - and Sorcerers need the elemental metamagic as well! You could also up the bookkeeping and require a spell of equal or greater level have the element you need. Lightningball is fine, but no Forceball unless you've got a Bigby's in your pocket. Again, more bookkeeping, but it would add some fun choices in advancement.

On the thematic oddities, I am still not a fan of Cortana. Sentient spellbook is cool, Sentient spellbook holographic avatar is weird. Sentient Spellbook avatar AND a familiar... is getting kind of crowded. Give me something that says "Bob the Skull," and we'll talk. As an alternative, something tied to Writing or Lore might be nice - these guys ought to be the Runes and Sigils experts. Pairing this with the Spellwrought Tattoos...

Burning spells to return to life - I get where that fits thematically, but this is sort of a dead feature. By the time you get it, death is a lot harder to achieve, particularly on a class that should be clever enough to avoid that kind of risk. And there is a good chance someone can do something to bring you back. A feature that you will probably never use is not a feature.

[animewatcha]

Except you can only use Metabolic Control like that once per long rest.

It would figure I would miss some wording. Still psionic die is Bad.

[Segev]

It would figure I would miss some wording. Still psionic die is Bad.

I still disagree with that sentiment.

[Arkhios]

Psionic Die isn't bad idea. It's the current implementation that is.

[Segev]

Psionic Die isn't bad idea. It's the current implementation that is.

My only major complaint with it is the flavor about the way it shrinks and grows. It's called out as "over-extending" and as "conserving your power," but you don't lack control over when you conserve your power.

[Arkhios]

My only major complaint with it is the flavor about the way it shrinks and grows. It's called out as "over-extending" and as "conserving your power," but you don't lack control over when you conserve your power.

Indeed. The mechanism itself is quite evocative, but contextually and flavorwise it's rather off the target.

[Seclora]

I still disagree with that sentiment.

Seconded. Psychic Die has the best feel for a 5e Psionics System I've seen, and better reflects the more modern, cinematic style of psychic powers seen in media like Stranger Things, or X-Men. Power Points were fine in 3.5's mechanics heavy, +2 from each of ten spells system, but 'this die gets smaller if you roll well' is more appropriate for 5e's 'roll twice and take one result' system.

[Zevox]

Indeed. The mechanism itself is quite evocative, but contextually and flavorwise it's rather off the target.

Sure, but that's precisely the reason it shouldn't be used for Psionics. It would make a good mechanic for something akin to Wild Magic, being unpredictable and yielding sometimes strange results (a low roll having a benefit and a high roll coming with a penalty is completely contrary to how things normally work everywhere else, after all), but is totally out of place as a central mechanic of Psionics.

[Arkhios]

Sure, but that's precisely the reason it shouldn't be used for Psionics. It would make a good mechanic for something akin to Wild Magic, being unpredictable and yielding sometimes strange results (a low roll having a benefit and a high roll coming with a penalty is completely contrary to how things normally work everywhere else, after all), but is totally out of place as a central mechanic of Psionics.

I.... didn't say that it should be the centerpiece mechanism for Psionics, did I?

[Zevox]

I.... didn't say that it should be the centerpiece mechanism for Psionics, did I?

You did not, no - that's just what they've currently set it up to be, and so what I felt needs addressing. If we're agreeing there completely, cool, all good. I had thought that perhaps we'd differ there since you seemed to be in agreement with another poster who has a more positive opinion of the psi dice, but I'd still have said much the same thing either way.