OOTS #1202 - The Discussion Thread

[littlebum2002]

I've not seen either of those, but it seems to have been a common message, since that is the conclusion of Grease as well.

Grey Wolf

I always thought Grease would have been 100x a better movie if the ending was a play on the Gift of the Magi: Sandy shows up dressed like a greaser to impress Danny, only to find that he shows up dressed like a prep boy to impress her.

[Mic_128]

Are you trying to tell me that I can't blindly believe every pop culture rumor I hear on the internet?

If it makes you feel any better, the Alan Rickman/Hans Gruber fall was a legit surprise with the timing.

[Peelee]

Also, Anakin Skywalker killing the younglings wasn't in the script. Hayden Christianson just walked on the set and just went to town on them. Turns out, George was filming the whole time.

[KorvinStarmast]

I always thought Grease would have been 100x a better movie if the ending was a play on the Gift of the Magi: Sandy shows up dressed like a greaser to impress Danny, only to find that he shows up dressed like a prep boy to impress her.

Another vote for this.

[Jasdoif]

I always thought Grease would have been 100x a better movie if the ending was a play on the Gift of the Magi: Sandy shows up dressed like a greaser to impress Danny, only to find that he shows up dressed like a prep boy to impress her.

That's rather close to what did happen. It was a bad idea for the script to assume the audience knew "lettering in track" involves getting an award for excellence, which is quite a lot of dedication given Danny only joined the track team to impress Sandy (above his own disdain for the sport) and didn't have any idea what he was doing when he started....

[Rogar Demonblud]

Obviously I heard a garbled version of that story. Thanks for the correction, Peelee.

And on further thought, it shows that Alda was in on it. Everyone else is stunned. Hawkeye just keeps working.

[Fyraltari]

No! That can't be! Oh, the huge manatee!

Grey Wolf

That reminds me, did anyone ever find that hidden burg?

Also, Anakin Skywalker killing the younglings wasn't in the script. Hayden Christianson just walked on the set and just went to town on them. Turns out, George was filming the whole time.

I believe you mean, was not filming.

[Schroeswald]

Also, Anakin Skywalker killing the younglings wasn't in the script. Hayden Christianson just walked on the set and just went to town on them. Turns out, George was filming the whole time.

Actually no movie is scripted, the director just runs around and yells at actors to make them do things, because they are the only one in movies who ever do anything.

[thorr-kan]

What was the problem with the language? The most possibly-school-inappropriate thing that I can think of is a few instances of "boobies" and "boobs".

That's some of it.

There's a little bit of cursing, and apparently some folks little angels would never use such language unless led astray. ASTRAY!

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm not so sure that Xykon and Redcloak would just assume they're clouds rolling in. They're quite aware of high level transportation spells, and the way it's being depicted looks pretty suspicious, plus it's all being lead by a raven, and I'm SURE Xykon remembers the little punk that nearly tossed his phylactery into the dimensional rip.

Also...does Blackwing know the way to the actual gate location, due to what he saw? I don't recall that being mentioned before.

I'm not even sure what the point is in going through the correct door and risking leaving a magical trail for Xykon to follow vs. waiting to ambush Team Evil either when they emerge from a door or following after them into one and striking from behind?

They don't actually even need to ever reach the gate themselves, just defeat Xykon and Redcloak before they reach it.
I'm guessing by sheer happenstance, they arrived on the very day Xykon finds the correct dungeon and the final battle is in front of the gate because...dramatic tension? Whatever....

Also, i love how Blackwing and Haley naturally assume the opposite ends of the spectrum in the first panel.

While price gouging is something Haley might do herself, encouraging someone else to do it to her or her party seems pretty against her character....

[Jasdoif]

Also...does Blackwing know the way to the actual gate location, due to what he saw? I don't recall that being mentioned before.

He was in the scouting team, so he'd know the way to the same degree as anyone else could be expected to. He's also a bird and thus might not draw undue attention, although that hasn't worked out so well before.

[bunsen_h]

He was in the scouting team, so he'd know the way to the same degree as anyone else could be expected to.

That is to say, he knows the way to the canyon, but not which door leads to the gate.

[StreamOfTheSky]

That is to say, he knows the way to the canyon, but not which door leads to the gate.

Ok. The way it was presented w/ him leading, it sounded like he was able to actually lead them down the correct path or something. At least to me.

[Dion]

Well that was hilarious.
"Good luck saving the world, it's where I keep most of my stuff." I swear I've heard something like that somewhere, can't put my finger on where though...

Perhaps a reference to The Tick animated show from the 90s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wh2CruhrKk

[Ron Miel]

It's actually a fairly widespread joke, that certainly pre-dates The Tick.

[Snails]

That's rather close to what did happen. It was a bad idea for the script to assume the audience knew "lettering in track" involves getting an award for excellence, which is quite a lot of dedication given Danny only joined the track team to impress Sandy (above his own disdain for the sport) and didn't have any idea what he was doing when he started....

Is there sarcasm and irony wooshing over my head? Isn't it obvious that his new sweater meant something about trying to straighten up for Sandy? Even if the audience did not understand "Lettering".

And for those who do not know, "Lettering" means that he earned a position on the varsity team so he has the right to put a large varsity letter on his jacket/sweater, the letter itself being an abbreviation for the school name. Which means he competed on the real squad (varsity squad) for the honor of the school at least once (although it is possible that the sports team had some stricter rules about competing N times on the varsity squad in order to officially be on the roster).

[Snails]

I'm not so sure that Xykon and Redcloak would just assume they're clouds rolling in. They're quite aware of high level transportation spells, and the way it's being depicted looks pretty suspicious, plus it's all being lead by a raven, and I'm SURE Xykon remembers the little punk that nearly tossed his phylactery into the dimensional rip.

If Team Evil are actually out of doors when those clouds roll in, I would think it is fairly likely to go badly. Luckily, Team Evil probably spends most of their daylight hours behind doors, so it would be dumb luck (or "speed of plot") if the clouds are within their sight to be noticed.

[Deathhappens]

Yeah, uh, that's... not inconspicuous at all, guys. Anyone who knows about the spell and so much as glances upwards is bound to notice them.

[PontificatusRex]

Is there sarcasm and irony wooshing over my head? Isn't it obvious that his new sweater meant something about trying to straighten up for Sandy? Even if the audience did not understand "Lettering".

Yeah, I was like 8 or 9 when I saw the movie and it was clear they both did the Gift of the Magi thing - though of course Danny goes back to being a greaser since that was so much cooler.

[Ron Miel]

Is there sarcasm and irony wooshing over my head?

I don't think so. I can't see any actual point that you're disagreeing on. All agree that Danny was trying to clean up his image to be a better match for Sandy. All agree on the meaning of wearing letters. All agree that some members of the audience might not understand what letters mean. (I certainly didn't)

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, uh, that's... not inconspicuous at all, guys. Anyone who knows about the spell and so much as glances upwards is bound to notice them.

People pretty much never look upwards though.

[littlebum2002]

I've not seen either of those, but it seems to have been a common message, since that is the conclusion of Grease as well.

Grey Wolf

Is there sarcasm and irony wooshing over my head? Isn't it obvious that his new sweater meant something about trying to straighten up for Sandy? Even if the audience did not understand "Lettering".

And for those who do not know, "Lettering" means that he earned a position on the varsity team so he has the right to put a large varsity letter on his jacket/sweater, the letter itself being an abbreviation for the school name. Which means he competed on the real squad (varsity squad) for the honor of the school at least once (although it is possible that the sports team had some stricter rules about competing N times on the varsity squad in order to officially be on the roster).

Yeah, I was like 8 or 9 when I saw the movie and it was clear they both did the Gift of the Magi thing - though of course Danny goes back to being a greaser since that was so much cooler.

No, I understand the whole letterman jacket thing. But at the end of the movie, Sandy changed her whole look. She went full greaser for Danny. Danny just threw a letterman jacket over his normal leather outfit. What I meant by "Gift of the Magi" is if Sandy wore her greaser outfit only to find Danny dressed like this:

Spoiler: Not a spoiler

Show

(Dressed like the guy, not the girl) (Although the movie ending with Danny in a dress WOULD be pretty interesting to say the least). It would mean he changed his whole "look" to try to make her happy, just like she did to him.

I mean I still think it's a great movie. And, like MASH, it's a sign of the times in which it was made. I'm just trying to add a more "modern" twist to the end.


EDIT: I just realized we went from a TV show made in the 70s but set in the 50s to a movie made in the 70s but set in the 50s. And then there's also American Graffiti/Happy Days. Was this a whole thing or am I trying to find a pattern where none exists?

[Rockphed]

I think it is a sign of O. Henry's genius that pretty much every story would be made better by having a Gift of the Magi ending.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

No, I understand the whole letterman jacket thing. But at the end of the movie, Sandy changed her whole look. She went full greaser for Danny. Danny just threw a letterman jacket over his normal leather outfit.

And the jacket was abandoned as soon as Sandy changed. By the end scene, he is back in all-black, while she is... in all black. She changed, he did not.

EDIT: I just realized we went from a TV show made in the 70s but set in the 50s to a movie made in the 70s but set in the 50s. And then there's also American Graffiti/Happy Days. Was this a whole thing or am I trying to find a pattern where none exists?

No, it is pretty standard nostalgia pull, hankering to the target audience's vague memories of how the world was back when they were kids, and that tends to work out to about 20/30 years prior to the time the movie is being made. It's always been done - these days, it is the resurrection of IPs from the 80s and 90s.

Grey Wolf

[littlebum2002]

I think it is a sign of O. Henry's genius that pretty much every story would be made better by having a Gift of the Magi ending.

Frodo brings the Ring to Mordor only to find that Sauron somehow moved the volcano to Eriador to make it easier to destroy the Ring.

And the jacket was abandoned as soon as Sandy changed. By the end scene, he is back in all-black, while she is... in all black. She changed, he did not.

So, in this situation, the girl does everything she can do while the guy does the bare minimum. Maybe it is realistic after all. My wife would say so anyway.

[Grey Watcher]

I always thought Grease would have been 100x a better movie if the ending was a play on the Gift of the Magi: Sandy shows up dressed like a greaser to impress Danny, only to find that he shows up dressed like a prep boy to impress her.

As others have said, it really is supposed to be. It's just so poorly executed that it fails. Even if you know what a lettereman's sweater is (and I've encountered plenty of commentators who clearly didn't), Danny's change only gets pointed out a few lines of dialogue and he ditches it at the first opportunity. Sandy gets a whole freaking musical number.

Of course, Grease wasn't exactly great storytelling up to that point either, but even by its own modest standards, it tanks the ending.

[Ron Miel]

About 20 years since I saw the film, but isn't a large part of the plot concerned with Danny trying various new things in order to change his image? And then Sandy changes her image, and they meet half way.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

About 20 years since I saw the film, but isn't a large part of the plot concerned with Danny trying various new things in order to change his image? And then Sandy changes her image, and they meet half way.

I haven't watched it in about that much time either, but IIRC, Danny either pretended to be a good guy over the summer to bag Sandy, or that's his real persona and he puts on a front for his friends. Then we spend the whole film with Danny assuring his friends he is still cool, while trying to convince Sandy he is better that way. Then, at the very end, he changes a bit to match what Sandy wants, it turns out she changed to be like him, so he abandons his change and they both ride into the sunset in the car that defines his "cool rebel" personality.

It is, in short, a prototypical American film. But it does have catchy tunes and since it is a musical, that is all that really matters. Like with opera before it, the plot is mostly incidental. It'd be like complaining about the lack of depth and terrible message of The Magic Flute or The Barber of Seville or Carmen. You'd be kinda missing the point.

Grey Wolf

[Rogar Demonblud]

EDIT: I just realized we went from a TV show made in the 70s but set in the 50s to a movie made in the 70s but set in the 50s. And then there's also American Graffiti/Happy Days. Was this a whole thing or am I trying to find a pattern where none exists?

A pattern? There's no such thing. Just ignore The Wonder Years, That 70's Show, The Goldbergs...

[Ghosty]

People pretty much never look upwards though.

Pilots do. People who ride flying mounts might be like pilots in that regard. Which is all I was trying to say about Oona.