[Exalted 2E] White Veil Style: How does Birdsong Over Blades work?

[Segev]

This is a bit of an off-specialty question for this forum, but I haven't been able to find answers elsewhere. In Exalted 2E, there is a style whose writeup tone I will avoid using despite finding it hilarious in context called White Veil. It's all about concealing deadly martial arts while feigning genteel conversation.

The first Charm in the style is Birdsong Over Blades, which allows the practitioner to engage in martial arts attacks and choose to do no damage, but still get on-damage effects off. Aside from utility with getting on-damage effects past almost-impossible-to-damage targets, this is useful because it explicitly calls out that the victim who takes no damage doesn't even know he's been afflicted with the rider effects.

However, one of the effects it says it still inflicts is wound penalties. These are tied directly to health levels; specifically, which health levels you've got filled determines what your wound penalty is at. (If you've filled your -1 and two -2 health levels, you're at -2 wound penalty, because your current last-filled level is a -2 health level.)

Now here's where I need other Exalted players' expertise: assuming this style wasn't written by somebody who had one specific Charm from another style entirely in mind, how do you inflict wound penalties without inflicting damage? How do you determine what health level it's filled to when no damage is inflicted? Do you roll damage anyway, and assume it fills to there? But then you could Incapacitate or Kill with this despite doing no damage, and that seems counter to the design of the Charm, which is about setting up people without it being obvious.

The Charm also says, at the end, "Some effects use the number of health levels lost to determine their extent, and for such purposes, the damage done is zero." Which strongly implies that you don't roll damage for any reason.

Is there something I'm missing about how to inflict wound penalties when you choose not to roll damage? Is this something the writers or the Ink Monkeys addressed and I just can't find it?

[GrayDeath]

Aside from also finding no Errata and hence having to assume that the original description was considered clear enough (given how detailed Ink Monkeys usually are Erratawise) for me the formulation of "For the duration of Birdsong Over Blades, the character may choose to infl ict no actual health levels of damage with any of his individual Martial Arts attacks—but the target can still suffer wound penalties and supernatural effects, including poisons, contamination and the powers available through certain Charms. pretty clearly says: "YOu may inflict wound penalties as if Damage was inflicted, but all other effects of Damage do not apply if you decide not to inflict damage with your MA Attacks".

If thgat makes sense. ^^


It is, if that helps, how we have used it the one time someone really went and took the style.

[Segev]

Aside from also finding no Errata and hence having to assume that the original description was considered clear enough (given how detailed Ink Monkeys usually are Erratawise) for me the formulation of "For the duration of Birdsong Over Blades, the character may choose to infl ict no actual health levels of damage with any of his individual Martial Arts attacks—but the target can still suffer wound penalties and supernatural effects, including poisons, contamination and the powers available through certain Charms. pretty clearly says: "YOu may inflict wound penalties as if Damage was inflicted, but all other effects of Damage do not apply if you decide not to inflict damage with your MA Attacks".

If that makes sense. ^^


It is, if that helps, how we have used it the one time someone really went and took the style.

That does help.

As an example, just to see how it was ruled, let's say somebody has 4 health levels of each of -1, -2, and -4. They've taken 2 -1 health levels (for real) from prior attacks. Obviously, how you say you ran it, if Birdsong Over Blades is used to inflict 3 LHL, no boxes are filled, but since this WOULD HAVE filled a -2 HL, the target is now at -2 wound penalty. Right?

What if the next attack is also Birdsong Over Blades, and does 4 more HL? Does that start at the true -1 HL and still only get up to some -2 HLs, or does it start at the phantom -2 HL and progress into -4 HLs, upping the wound penalty?

What happens if a Birdsong Over Blades attack manages to deal, say, 20 HLs, which would theoretically fill the Incapacitated box? Is "Incapacitated" an effect that can afflict them? Can the White Veil Stylist choose NOT to fill that one? Or can it not be inflicted, leaving them with -4 wound penalties but conscious and not understanding why they're so sluggish?

[GrayDeath]

First Question: Yep.

And multiple instances stack, yes, if used in the same scene.

For Incapacitated: No. If caused by Damage, thats obviously one of the effects that does not apply.
Now if you manage to apply a poison that makes them Incapacitated AND enough Damage it could be easily used to makes omeone "die from a sudden heart attck "which is what our palyer did^^).

[Segev]

First Question: Yep.

And multiple instances stack, yes, if used in the same scene.

For Incapacitated: No. If caused by Damage, thats obviously one of the effects that does not apply.
Now if you manage to apply a poison that makes them Incapacitated AND enough Damage it could be easily used to makes omeone "die from a sudden heart attck "which is what our palyer did^^).

Thanks for explaining!

[GrayDeath]

You are welcome.

While I am no longer the Exalted Expert i used to be at the late 200s and early 3010s, I am always willing to help out navigating this....lets say "too charmed" game. ^^