5e Throwdowns #2: Judgement Day, aka the terminator!

[Dork_Forge]

The winner is Ludic Savant's 'The Regenerator'

[Dork_Forge]

Has my vote. Always cool to see an unconventional, effective approach to the premise of the contest.

{Scrubbed}

Sorry, is this a sideshow or are you saying this will somehow affect the outcome of the contest? Will our votes no longer determine the winner?

Also, what exactly is happening in these simulated encounters? Are you going to have every enemy attack target a random PC?

It has no bearing on the outcome of the contest and was suggested by a user that something like this could be fun. Each build with fill face a 6 encounter day (with two short rests) where they simply have to survive. There will be no party, the focus of the enemy will be solely on the build at hand, all resources and action economy are to be used defensively (no damage is done to the monster), each encounter will last 3 rounds (with two lasting longer than that). These encounters will be rolled out on Roll20 and when done (it will probably take a little while) results will be posted here as each build completes the Gauntlet.

[Dagda Mor]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

You should be, I'm pretty great.

Gauntlet sounds interesting, looking forwards to seeing the reports.

[Skylivedk]

Yep, sounds about right. I'd do the same (either that or teleport out).


Where are you getting GoI from?

T-44 is ironically easier to cook with other spells (flaming sphere, storm sphere, wall spells). The lack of counterspell makes dispel magic hard to get off against casters. Still, outside my DM giving every damn dragon spell-casting, it ought to be a very niche case. Our play experiences are probably pretty vital in how we vote.

Also, I see n7paladin not accepting variants. That is personal, right? I don't remember anything about it in the OP and easy alternatives to fit a build into the campaigns I play, are definitely a plus in my book.

[Dork_Forge]

Also, I see n7paladin not accepting variants. That is personal, right? I don't remember anything about it in the OP and easy alternatives to fit a build into the campaigns I play, are definitely a plus in my book.

For guides and advice having other options/variants of a build to make it suit certain groups and campaigns is very helpful, for a contest it should really be as specific as possible, otherwise it's like laying out a menu of options rather than making hard build choices for people to evaluate and vote on.

[HPisBS]

T-44 is ironically easier to cook with other spells (flaming sphere, storm sphere, wall spells). The lack of counterspell makes dispel magic hard to get off against casters. Still, outside my DM giving every damn dragon spell-casting, it ought to be a very niche case. Our play experiences are probably pretty vital in how we vote.

Dispel Magic is still your friend. Let's walk through it for a sec. I'll assume one of the goals of that "cooker" is to kill as resource-efficiently as possible. I'll also use a "Terminator" that actually intends to terminate a target, this time.

Spoiler: Investigation check

Show

Round 1:
Evo Wizard: Heat Metal on T-44's half plate, dealing ~9 fire damage (to T-44's thp). T-44 fails to "drop" his armor, so now attacks at disadvantage.

T-44: Dispel Magic on armor. Protector Cannon refreshes ~ 9.5 thp and Force Ballista Cannon attacks for ~ 13.5 force damage.

Round 2:
Evo Wizard: Heat Metal on T-44's half plate, dealing ~9 fire damage (to T-44's thp). T-44 fails to "drop" his armor, so now attacks at disadvantage.

T-44: Dispel Magic on armor, but Evo Wizard Counterspells. Protector Cannon refreshes ~ 9.5 thp and Force Ballista Cannon attacks (¿at disadvantage?) for ~ 13.5 force damage -- cue DC 10 Con Save for Evo Wizard. T-44's Tiny Servant uses Shatter Storing Item to deal ~ 13.5 thunder damage -- cue DC 10 Con Save for Evo Wizard.

Round 3:
Evo Wizard: Fire Bolt (miss). ~9 fire damage from Heat Metal bonus action.

T-44: Frostbite for ~ 18.5 cold damage -- cue DC 10 Con Save for Evo Wiz. Protector Cannon refreshes ~ 9.5 thp and Force Ballista Cannon attacks (¿at disadvantage?) for ~ 13.5 force damage (miss). Tiny Servant uses Shatter Storing Item to deal ~ 13.5 thunder damage -- cue DC 10 Con Save for Evo Wizard.

[LudicSavant]

Dispel Magic is still your friend. Let's walk through it for a sec. I'll assume one of the goals of that "cooker" is to kill as resource-efficiently as possible. I'll also use a "Terminator" that actually intends to terminate a target, this time.

Spoiler: Investigation check

Show

Round 1:
Evo Wizard: Heat Metal on T-44's half plate, dealing ~9 fire damage (to T-44's thp). T-44 fails to "drop" his armor, so now attacks at disadvantage.

T-44: Dispel Magic on armor. Protector Cannon refreshes ~ 9.5 thp and Force Ballista Cannon attacks for ~ 13.5 force damage.

Round 2:
Evo Wizard: Heat Metal on T-44's half plate, dealing ~9 fire damage (to T-44's thp). T-44 fails to "drop" his armor, so now attacks at disadvantage.

T-44: Dispel Magic on armor, but Evo Wizard Counterspells. Protector Cannon refreshes ~ 9.5 thp and Force Ballista Cannon attacks (¿at disadvantage?) for ~ 13.5 force damage -- cue DC 10 Con Save for Evo Wizard. T-44's Tiny Servant uses Shatter Storing Item to deal ~ 13.5 thunder damage -- cue DC 10 Con Save for Evo Wizard.

Round 3:
Evo Wizard: Fire Bolt (miss). ~9 fire damage from Heat Metal bonus action.

T-44: Frostbite for ~ 18.5 cold damage -- cue DC 10 Con Save for Evo Wiz. Protector Cannon refreshes ~ 9.5 thp and Force Ballista Cannon attacks (¿at disadvantage?) for ~ 13.5 force damage (miss). Tiny Servant uses Shatter Storing Item to deal ~ 13.5 thunder damage -- cue DC 10 Con Save for Evo Wizard.

Why does this Wizard have Heat Metal on their spell list?

[HPisBS]

Why does this Wizard have Heat Metal on their spell list?

... Wow, they really don't. lol

[Kane0]

Can get it from cheesy background though

[LudicSavant]

... Wow, they really don't. lol

Also, what level is this happening at? It's gotta be at least 15th level since you have both protector and ballista.

Is there some reason that they decide not to clear your minions (turrets and tiny servants) on round one?

Or why they keep casting Fire Bolt at an armored foe?

Can get it from cheesy background though

Yeah, you can get it from Izzet Engineer.

[HPisBS]

Also, what level is this happening at? It's gotta be at least 15th level since you have both protector and ballista.

Is there some reason that they decide not to clear your minions (turrets and tiny servants) on round one?

Or why they keep casting Fire Bolt at an armored foe?

How targetable would you say a tiny object - which doesn't occupy a space, and is probably either riding on your shoulder or carried in your hand - should be? I'm not even sure how aoes should interact with that, especially when so many such spells and effects specify "objects that are not being worn or carried." (Though, honestly, it'd still have 100 hp, so it may not actually be the smartest move to focus on it instead.) And, besides, Heat Metal's debuff presumably applies to the cannon's attack rolls.

The protector can safely be on the inside of the shield (full cover) and do its thing.

The Tiny Servant could presumably be hanging out there, too, and only pop out when casting using the spell storing item on other targets. (If the stored spell is Cure Wounds or similar, it can definitely stay on the inside of the shield.)


I had the enemy use Fire Bolt once, just because it's one of the highest damaging cantrips, and because the only Dex save cantrip I could think of was Create Bonfire.

[LudicSavant]

How targetable would you say a tiny object, which doesn't occupy a space, and is probably either riding on your shoulder or carried in your hand, should be?

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be easily targetable by, say, Chain Lightning. At a very minimum the Spell Storing servant would be gone, though removing the 100hp turrets on round 1 isn't outside the realm of possibility for a high level Evoker. Though they could certainly decide to do something else. Shrug

Though, honestly, it'd still have 100 hp

So this at level 20 w/ Soul of Artifice and their 1-hour stuff up, vs a person just casting L2 Heat Metal twice and Fire Bolt. Correct?

I had the enemy use Fire Bolt once, just because it's one of the highest damaging cantrips, and because the only Dex save cantrip I could think of was Create Bonfire.

My bad! You're right, you only said they used it once. I should have asked why they are casting Fire Bolt, rather than why they keep doing so. It's just mathematically not a very good cantrip choice for a high level Evoker to use, especially vs an armored foe, so I just was wondering if there was any reason.

The Tiny Servant could presumably be hanging out there, too, and only pop out when casting using the spell storing item on other targets. (If the stored spell is Cure Wounds or similar, it can definitely stay on the inside of the shield.)

Personally I wouldn't count on being able to do that at all. It's like saying you're gonna tape a cat to the inside of your shield and not have it hinder your ability to use said shield, and not have anyone see it while you're using your shield in a normal fashion (especially in a game without facing rules).

[HPisBS]

There's not much limitation on what a Tiny Servant can be. It could be anything from a little doll to just a piece of rope; so long as the form is capable of grasping and waving a dart, it works.

I had the enemy use Heat Metal because.... well, crap. I could've sworn that was the first spell mentioned on the comment I was responding to. Whoops. But it also seemed more effective than the other ones that were listed, since it doesn't have to overcome the Tank's crazy high AC or saves to be fully effective.... Then again, the enemy likely wouldn't know the extent of the Tank's defenses, so that probably shouldn't actually factor into their round 1 choices.

It being 2nd level was mainly because I just habitually cast all my spells at their lowest levels so they don't prevent me from casting my higher level spells later. And because I assume part of the goal was to be "as resource-efficient as possible." That's also why I had the enemy follow up with the cantrip while the concentration spell was still up.

[Dork_Forge]

There's not much limitation on what a Tiny Servant can be. It could be anything from a little doll to just a piece of rope; so long as the form is capable of grasping and waving a dart, it works.

I had the enemy use Heat Metal because.... well, crap. I could've sworn that was the first spell mentioned on the comment I was responding to. Whoops. But it also seemed more effective than the other ones that were listed, since it doesn't have to overcome the Tank's crazy high AC or saves to be fully effective.... Then again, the enemy likely wouldn't know the extent of the Tank's defenses, so that probably shouldn't actually factor into their round 1 choices.

It being 2nd level was mainly because I just habitually cast all my spells at their lowest levels so they don't prevent me from casting my higher level spells later. And because I assume part of the goal was to be "as resource-efficient as possible." That's also why I had the enemy follow up with the cantrip while the concentration spell was still up.

Heat Metal (especially upcast and with Counter Spell to defend its casting) is probably one of the best ways to deal with most of our builds (especially anything that relies on healing or temp hp generation), it makes the good ol' Bear Barbarian shine in one regard.