5e Throwdowns #2: Judgement Day, aka the terminator!

[Dork_Forge]

snipped for length

Thank you for the summary (I don't want to get into it, but tend to agree with it) and break down of the hit point range amongst the submitted builds.

As for the thread as a whole:

Anyone that hasn't voted yet I'd like to remind of the suggested way of voting (quoting the build you want to vote for, snipping the content, and making it clear in text that it has your support). There's already a bit of a mixed bag in terms of build formatting but murky votes is a bigger issue. It doesn't take long to do but makes it a lot easier for me to count the votes accurately and may become a requirement of voting if most people don't follow it.

[AureusFulgens]

How tough to kill are you really if your team crumbles around you? In my ethos, a tank does not meekly stand by, confident in their personal turtle shell, waiting for the other 3/4s of their party’s action economy to die off. Thus, I have aimed not only to become very durable, but also to become the character who must die first in order to make anything stick to any of my allies. The unselfish terminator who shares their terminator-ness.

To that end, I give you the everhealing juggernaut and high priest of Cyttorak, the Regenerator! Nobody in the party dies until you do, and you... just… won’t... die!

The Regenerator

...

Shouting "LIVE, INSECT" when healing allies is optional.

I appreciate the unique approach, and I have a soft spot for the Cleric. Not to mention I like the team-focus aspect.

This one gets my vote.

[Dork_Forge]

T-44: Tank

Has my vote: AC, HP, Saves, at 0 protections, ways to deal with statuses and and spammable temp hp hits pretty much every box I can think of and tried to hit with my own build.

[Dork_Forge]

To all build contestants interested I am considering running a limited number of the candidates through a a simulated adventuring day to see how they hold up in pseudo play. This will involve 6 encounters with 2 short rests against different enemies. There will be no damage done to the enemies, damage will just be calculated against your builds for at least 3 rounds (the average) with at least two encounters lasting longer. Encounter difficulty will lean towards deadly for hopefully obvious reasons.

All those interested please PM me, no more than one build per person will be considered for simulation.

[HPisBS]

What are you proposing, exactly? To get together on Roll20 or whatever and play through a few rounds?

[Dork_Forge]

What are you proposing exactly? That we get together on Roll20 or whatever and play through a few rounds?

My initial idea was to construct 6 hard/deadly encounters with a short rest between each two encounters. Then have whatever that encounter is try and wail on each build for an average of 3 rounds (at least two for a little longer), the build's resources will be used entirely defensively and just have to survive all of the encounters.

[1Pirate]

-snip-

Regardless of voting outcome, you should put this in your ECoFEB thread.

[Skylivedk]

My initial idea was to construct 6 hard/deadly encounters with a short rest between each two encounters. Then have whatever that encounter is try and wail on each build for an average of 3 rounds (at least two for a little longer), the build's resources will be used entirely defensively and just have to survive all of the encounters.

Sure, please do. Resilient Sphere and counterspell ought to take you far :) many monsters with dispel magic will be a problem.

@total hp: can you share the whole comparison in depth? It sounds like a great piece of work. How did you count stuff like regenerate?

[Dork_Forge]

Sure, please do. Resilient Sphere and counterspell ought to take you far :)

@total hp: can you share the whole comparison in depth? It sounds like a great piece of work. How did you count stuff like regenerate?

I'm confused, you mean to use those spells against the builds?

...is this even meant for me?

[Skylivedk]

I'm confused, you mean to use those spells against the builds?

...is this even meant for me?

No for when you run SkyNet through

[Dork_Forge]

The Simulation is now full, the following builds will be run through the gauntlet:

• HPisBS' T-44 Tank
• SociopathFriend's The Resistant
• Waazraath's Trixie and her loyal Canis Terminus
• My own The Wolverine (T-1000)
• Dualswinger's Celestial Glowman
• LudicSavant's The Regenerator
• Skylivedk's Skynet

If anyone would like to control their own builds in the simulation please PM me, if someone would be interested in controlling a build that the submitter is not controlling then also please contact me.

[SociopathFriend]

The Simulation is now full, the following builds will be run through the gauntlet:

• HPisBS' T-44 Tank
• SociopathFriend's The Resistant
• Waazraath's Trixie and her loyal Canis Terminus
• My own The Wolverine (T-1000)
• Dualswinger's Celestial Glowman
• LudicSavant's The Regenerator
• Skylivedk's Skynet

Huh, well I don't expect a victory but nonetheless am interested in how it ends up comparing.

[Dork_Forge]

Huh, well I don't expect a victory but nonetheless am interested in how it ends up comparing.

Your guy was nominated, if you want to control them throughout the Gauntlet then please just let me know, otherwise any tips for how you'd go through your resources would be appreciated so we can capture what you intended most accurately.

[N7Paladin]

Now, here's one that just doesn't get hurt in the first place - a literal walking tank - complete with multiple "guns:"

T-44: Tank

Level 20 split: Artillerist Artificer 20

Race: Warforged

Stats: Str 12, Dex 14, Con 10 (12) →19 via infusion, Int 15 (16) → 20, Wis 11→12, Cha 10

My vote is for the T-44; a very nice, refined, and well-thoughtout build.


-----

@Sociopathfriend, I enjoyed looking over your Paladin multiclass and it's very tempting to use it in a campaign I've got coming I hope that's okay

I look forward to seeing how it does in the simulation

[Dagda Mor]

-snip-

Has my vote. Always cool to see an unconventional, effective approach to the premise of the contest.

[Dagda Mor]

To all build contestants interested I am considering running a limited number of the candidates through a a simulated adventuring day to see how they hold up in pseudo play. This will involve 6 encounters with 2 short rests against different enemies. There will be no damage done to the enemies, damage will just be calculated against your builds for at least 3 rounds (the average) with at least two encounters lasting longer. Encounter difficulty will lean towards deadly for hopefully obvious reasons.

All those interested please PM me, no more than one build per person will be considered for simulation.

Sorry, is this a sideshow or are you saying this will somehow affect the outcome of the contest? Will our votes no longer determine the winner?

Also, what exactly is happening in these simulated encounters? Are you going to have every enemy attack target a random PC?

[HPisBS]

Sorry, is this a sideshow or are you saying this will somehow affect the outcome of the contest? Will our votes no longer determine the winner?

Also, what exactly is happening in these simulated encounters? Are you going to have every enemy attack target a random PC?

It seems to be a bunch of "deadly encounters" where 1 or more powerful enemies unload on each solo entry. No entry build will have allies to rely on. No entry will even fight back -- only defend for a few rounds. Then, rinse and repeat with new opposition for the entry to withstand, with nothing but a short rest after every other encounter.

(I guess the opposition just... gets tired of throwing everything they have at the character when they realize they aren't landing enough serious damage on it or something lol)

[HPisBS]

Well, I can't vote for the T-44: Tank since it's mine, so I guess I'll just have to officially vote for the Moon Druid. Mainly because it takes special tools to bring down -- tools which half-casters like the Artificer ironically lack.

Just a Moon Druid

Level 20 level split: Circle of the Moon Druid: 20

Race: Yuan-Ti

[SociopathFriend]

Your guy was nominated, if you want to control them throughout the Gauntlet then please just let me know, otherwise any tips for how you'd go through your resources would be appreciated so we can capture what you intended most accurately.

I was? Oh, must've missed that.

I intended to be a walking middle finger to magic and Saving Throws.
Your Spell Slots are never used for Smites. Defensive or Healing Spells are the name of the game.
Death Ward, Remove Curse, Lesser Restoration, Aid, Stoneskin*, Aura of Life, Cure Wounds, Shield of Faith, these are your Spells that will serve you well.
If you took Arcane Trickster then you can viably add Shield or Absorb Elements though the latter should only be used in scenarios your normal methods for Resistance will not suffice.

Make sure you don't use your Death Ward and Undying Sentinel at the same time. You explicitly get to choose whether you use the latter or not. You get at least two mulligans so make good use of them.

You've an automatic magic weapon, a gold hunk of hit points you can replenish, resistance you can apply to almost anything, conditional mobility to get out of being surrounded (Cunning Action, Misty Step*) and you're extremely difficult to incapacitate with magic.
Slow and steady wins the race.

*Oath of Ancient spells do not need to be prepared like the others.

[Dork_Forge]

Voting is now closed

[SociopathFriend]

Sorry, is this a sideshow or are you saying this will somehow affect the outcome of the contest? Will our votes no longer determine the winner?

Also, what exactly is happening in these simulated encounters? Are you going to have every enemy attack target a random PC?

I think it's more to see reality vs voted reality if that makes sense.
Your votes would still determine the winner but there's going to be a sort of, "Hard data" run to see which ones held up best.

That or Dark_Forge wants to steal all the builds for a campaign and so solicited us to provide ideas and now he's going to test them himself against what he plans to run up against.

[HPisBS]

Imagine your group playing the typical hodgepodge of adventurers, and then you come up against a lone humanoid figure that you apparently just can't scratch, like the Tank... or even that you can hurt, but that just heals right back up on its next turn while still attacking you like the Wolverine.

Yikes.

[SociopathFriend]

Imagine your group playing the typical hodgepodge of adventurers, and then you come up against a lone humanoid figure that you apparently just can't scratch, like the Tank... or even that you can hurt, but that just heals right back up on its next turn while still attacking you like the Wolverine.

Yikes.

I'm more imagining an entire party comprised of these builds and how the DM would need to bring some fairly potent firepower to possibly lay them all out since many of these builds would also be fairly good at helping allies recover.

I know one of my DMs didn't have a fit but rather was clearly happy/infuriated at how a Life Cleric in the last campaign I was in provided just so much healing that most of the party was playing horribly but was just tanking the hp loss via attrition.

Granted we still had like half the party killed but it very easily could've been either a TPK or close to it.

[Skylivedk]

I think it's more to see reality vs voted reality if that makes sense.
Your votes would still determine the winner but there's going to be a sort of, "Hard data" run to see which ones held up best.

That or Dark_Forge wants to steal all the builds for a campaign and so solicited us to provide ideas and now he's going to test them himself against what he plans to run up against.

There is no spoon nor reality in magic elf games. We are kidding ourselves if we take 6 random generated encounters played by one person to be any objective measure of these builds. I find it a fun test, but minor variables can have huge consequences: encounter type (mindflayers wreck one build and barlguras wreck another), sequencing of the encounters, start range, initiative counts, pre-buffs, terrain, level of preparation, flee range (when have you done too much avoidance) etc.

T-44 Tank (really messes with me that there's two T-44s) is a fantastic tank. It gets stopped fairly easily with Walls, Forcecage etc.

I also really like the Caster's Bane, and I think it gets less votes due to it being a disliked combination of classes.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the next Throwdown and be inspired :)

[HPisBS]

T-44 Tank (really messes with me that there's two T-44s) is a fantastic tank. It gets stopped fairly easily with Walls, Forcecage etc.

Stopped =/= Killed. Not even hurt.

Just... delayed.

[LudicSavant]

Stopped =/= Killed. Not even hurt.

Just... delayed.

How would it deal with the "Dragon Cooker" Skylivedk mentioned, e.g. 10 minute AoE + Forcecage? Prior to level 20 / Soul of Artifice.

[HPisBS]

Dispel Magic on the AoE DOT.

As for Sickening Radiance, specifically, it relies on Con Saves. Prior to lvl 20, Con Saves are up to +12. At lvl 20, it's a full +18, making it literally impossible to fail unless the caster has an item like the Robe of the Archmagi to raise the DC above 19.

[SociopathFriend]

I don't have the time to play through myself as we're remodeling but I definitely look forwards to seeing how the 'gauntlet simulation' so to speak goes.

[LudicSavant]

Dispel Magic on the AoE DOT.

Yep, sounds about right. I'd do the same (either that or teleport out).

Globe of Invulnerability

Where are you getting GoI from?

[HPisBS]

Where are you getting GoI from?

Whoops. Resilient Sphere.

(It was correct in the 4th level spell mentions, but I misremembered in the summary.)