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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Iíve read a lot of Conan stories, and I can definitively say that the primitive barbarians of Northern Hyboria are the greatest hand to hand combatants in the history of the universe.

    Even the two greatest astronauts of all time, Charlton Heston and Captain Kirk, would be no match against Conan.
    They have nothing to do with cavemen, though.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    They have nothing to do with cavemen, though.
    Depends. Did they live in caves?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    They have nothing to do with cavemen, though.
    Iíll concede that point. But what if we took the most famous caveman of all time, Rachel Welch from One Million Years BC, against the most famous astronaut of all time, Captain James T Kirk of the Starship Enterprise.

    What do you suppose is going to happen in a head to head matchup?

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Depends. Did they live in caves?
    No, they didn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Iíll concede that point. But what if we took the most famous caveman of all time, Rachel Welch from One Million Years BC, against the most famous astronaut of all time, Captain James T Kirk of the Starship Enterprise.

    What do you suppose is going to happen in a head to head matchup?
    Well given that I don't know who the former is and only have a passing knowledge of the slatter I'm going to say... poker night?
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Heh, archeological evidence suggests that it varied a lot from individual culture to indidividual culture, some had little to zero human violence as cause of death while some had so many it looks borderline genocidal.
    True, but massacring a rival tribe was probably a singular event. Would any particular caveman get into enough fights with other cavemen to actually become good at fighting?

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    True, but massacring a rival tribe was probably a singular event. Would any particular caveman get into enough fights with other cavemen to actually become good at fighting?
    Well, current apes (which is the closest equivalent we have for Homo sapiens ancestors) often get into fights. Agrarian Homo sapiens often get into fights. We have evidence of warfare between pre-agrarien Homo sapiens tribes. So it seems to me that yes, there were fighters among the cavemen as there have been among every single Homo sapiens society ever.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Well, current apes (which is the closest equivalent we have for Homo sapiens ancestors) often get into fights. Agrarian Homo sapiens often get into fights. We have evidence of warfare between pre-agrarien Homo sapiens tribes. So it seems to me that yes, there were fighters among the cavemen as there have been among every single Homo sapiens society ever.
    That's a good comparison. You're probably right.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    That's a good comparison. You're probably right.
    Are we talking about a Hollywood caveman against a Hollywood astronaut?

    Or are we talking about the toughest real caveman against the toughest real astronaut?

    Or are we talking about an average caveman against an average astronaut?

    Iím trying to figure out if weíre imagining 6í3Ē Charlton Heston, 5í 9Ē John Glenn, or a 5í 4Ē marine biologist in this hypothetical fight.
    Last edited by Dion; 2020-05-27 at 10:00 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Necris Omega's Avatar

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
    Four words.

    "Rocks fall, everyone dies."
    Only if the Gods are written by Obsidian Entertainment.
    I like to art!

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    Well, to answer the last question first, we know the blood oath wouldn't have kept Roy out, so there's no reason it should keep Julia from the appropriate afterlife for her, either.
    I am not convinced the Oath automatically keeps anyone out, including Eugene. Eugene's understanding does not necessarily have to be true. The Deva is not obligated to correct misconceptions. Eugene's attitude about how this plays out might be relevant evidence about Eugene's character and/or a useful learning experience to become more worthy.

    Roy's attempt to fulfill the Oath is a great positive to his credit in the Deva's eyes. If Roy took another Lawful path in life, he might get in just fine. The evidence of his behavior and attitude towards the Oath is important because Roy's case is not clear cut -- he uses Chaotic means to fulfill Lawful ends, plus he has a nasty streak. Roy is a good candidate for the Celestial Mountain overall, but the Deva must assess the weaknesses of his case, too.

    Eugene has all the issues of Roy, only ten-fold so. His attitude towards the Oath is important, because he also seems to be a Chaotic ends to Lawful means kind of guy. If he had dropped his Oath for some astoundingly Lawful and Good cause, I suspect the Deva might simply allow him directly in. Of course, Eugene would have to grow past his personal flaws revealed by his attitude towards the Oath, or he will just never progress up the Mountain (and, perhaps, his soul would be better off somewhere else).

    There is also a Catch-22 here: any soul who failed in such a manner but is actually worthy of entrance, such a soul would refuse entry until at least his son played out his own attempt. In other words, as long as Roy is in the game, Eugene has to be believe it is correct that he is prevented from entering Celestia, or that is evidence against. The Deva is not in the tempting business, so she is not going to play mind games here. Honestly, Eugene does himself no credit with his behavior during his afterlife, but his ultimate fate will probably be determined by his life as a whole. Eventually.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    If the Oath isnít blocking Eugene from the afterlife and the Deva wonít let him in then why wasnít he sent to another afterlife like Roy could have been?
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    If the Oath isnít blocking Eugene from the afterlife and the Deva wonít let him in then why wasnít he sent to another afterlife like Roy could have been?
    You know how some bureaucracy seems to start out well intentioned but then slowly turns into a convoluted and serpentine mess after 20 years?

    Maybe theyíve had a few billions of years to build up the bureaucracy and itís just kind of messed up?
    Last edited by Dion; 2020-06-05 at 02:42 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    You know how some bureaucracy seems to start out well intentioned but then slowly turns into a convoluted and serpentine mess after 20 years?

    Maybe theyíve had a few billions of years to build up the bureaucracy and itís just kind of messed up?
    IIRC, all beings but the gods get their memories wiped on Snarlification, so it stands to reason they should believe they are first-worlders, and have only been around for a few thousand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: If the Order fails and the world is destroyed, what happens to the Blood Oath?

    Letting Eugene stew outside instead of sending him on gives him the chance to think about his mistakes and try to rectify them. Of course Eugene will never do that, but Lawful Good Outsiders probably feel obligated to give him the opportunity anyhow.

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