Anonymouswizard's Random Banter #227 and Free Cup of Tea

[2D8HP]

Here's hoping for a hat trick!

Thanks @Peelee, and best wishes to you and your loved ones as well!

Oh, I have a daughter now - a 24 year-old daughter that I have never met face-to-face and didn't know of until recently, and I really don't remember her mother. A bit awkward in that she was born while my wife and I were dating but not yet married. She asked about family history and seems nice (and her picture looks a lot like my brother, my cousin, and my niece - there's also the blood test).

Since I now have an actual "Millennial" relative I hope to be able to use her generational knowledge to couch me about Harry Potter when discussion vere away from Tolkien and Star Wars.

[Peelee]

Thanks @Peelee, and best wishes to you and your loved ones as well!

Oh, I have a daughter now - a 24 year-old daughter that I have never met face-to-face and didn't know of until recently, and I really don't remember her mother. A bit awkward in that she was born while my wife and I were dating but not yet married. She asked about family history and seems nice (and her picture looks a lot like my brother, my cousin, and my niece - there's also the blood test).

Since I now have an actual "Millennial" relative I hope to be able to use her generational knowledge to couch me about Harry Potter when discussion vere away from Tolkien and Star Wars.

Tell her that J.R.R. Tolkien's real name was Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien.

[Bartmanhomer]

Thanks @Peelee, and best wishes to you and your loved ones as well!

Oh, I have a daughter now - a 24 year-old daughter that I have never met face-to-face and didn't know of until recently, and I really don't remember her mother. A bit awkward in that she was born while my wife and I were dating but not yet married. She asked about family history and seems nice (and her picture looks a lot like my brother, my cousin, and my niece - there's also the blood test).

Since I now have an actual "Millennial" relative I hope to be able to use her generational knowledge to couch me about Harry Potter when discussion vere away from Tolkien and Star Wars.

I'm not going to read any Harry Potter books because due to the horrible truth of J.K Rowling.

[Fyraltari]

Thanks @Peelee, and best wishes to you and your loved ones as well!

Oh, I have a daughter now - a 24 year-old daughter that I have never met face-to-face and didn't know of until recently, and I really don't remember her mother. A bit awkward in that she was born while my wife and I were dating but not yet married. She asked about family history and seems nice (and her picture looks a lot like my brother, my cousin, and my niece - there's also the blood test).

Since I now have an actual "Millennial" relative I hope to be able to use her generational knowledge to couch me about Harry Potter when discussion vere away from Tolkien and Star Wars.

Oh man. That can't be easy. I wish you and your family all the best.

Tell her that J.R.R. Tolkien's real name was Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien.

Why do you you do this to me?

[Anonymouswizard]

Oh, I have a daughter now - a 24 year-old daughter that I have never met face-to-face and didn't know of until recently, and I really don't remember her mother. A bit awkward in that she was born while my wife and I were dating but not yet married. She asked about family history and seems nice (and her picture looks a lot like my brother, my cousin, and my niece - there's also the blood test).

Since I now have an actual "Millennial" relative I hope to be able to use her generational knowledge to couch me about Harry Potter when discussion vere away from Tolkien and Star Wars.

Congratulations!

As a millennial, I shall point out that hating her hobbies is totally normal and you should be disagreeing about every other sentence.

Tell her that J.R.R. Tolkien's real name was Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien.

I still sometimes surprise people with the knowledge that C.S. Lewis's real name was Clive Staples (or Jack for short). It's fun when the names actually are weird as ****. (I literally can't remember what Tolkien's actual name was, but it sounded like a joke when I first read it.)

@Bartmanhomer: I managed to turn a girlfriend off Minecraft recently due to related stuff, and while I can't get overly into details the entire Rowling business makes me angry.

[DataNinja]

I still sometimes surprise people with the knowledge that C.S. Lewis's real name was Clive Staples (or Jack for short). It's fun when the names actually are weird as ****. (I literally can't remember what Tolkien's actual name was, but it sounded like a joke when I first read it.)

I only remember that stuff because of the Chronicles of the Imaginarium Geographica series. (Which were actually pretty fun reads.)

[Fyraltari]

I still sometimes surprise people with the knowledge that C.S. Lewis's real name was Clive Staples (or Jack for short). It's fun when the names actually are weird as ****. (I literally can't remember what Tolkien's actual name was, but it sounded like a joke when I first read it.)

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien

[Bartmanhomer]

Congratulations!

As a millennial, I shall point out that hating her hobbies is totally normal and you should be disagreeing about every other sentence.



I still sometimes surprise people with the knowledge that C.S. Lewis's real name was Clive Staples (or Jack for short). It's fun when the names actually are weird as ****. (I literally can't remember what Tolkien's actual name was, but it sounded like a joke when I first read it.)

@Bartmanhomer: I managed to turn a girlfriend off Minecraft recently due to related stuff, and while I can't get overly into details the entire Rowling business makes me angry.

I know. Her comments make me angry as well. I just can't believe she felt that way.

[Peelee]

Why do you you do this to me?

Because I think I'm funny.

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien

Mine was better.

[Anonymouswizard]

I know. Her comments make me angry as well. I just can't believe she felt that way.

I can't go into detail, but I'd honestly be fine with it being her personal views if she kept them to herself, and if we stop people from saying such things we can't challenge her beliefs. I know many people who have dropped the franchise like a stone because of it.

But over here there's circumstances that make this possibly the worst time to announce those views, and a bad situation is getting worse. That is literally what I can go into here, but if this had all happened a year earlier I'd be somewhat less fussed as I haven't financially supported her for a decade anyway due to unrelated reasons.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Why do you you do this to me?

I hate to have to break this to you, but you're French.

Grey Wolf

[Bartmanhomer]

I can't go into detail, but I'd honestly be fine with it being her personal views if she kept them to herself, and if we stop people from saying such things we can't challenge her beliefs. I know many people who have dropped the franchise like a stone because of it.

But over here there's circumstances that make this possibly the worst time to announce those views, and a bad situation is getting worse. That is literally what I can go into here, but if this had all happened a year earlier I'd be somewhat less fussed as I haven't financially supported her for a decade anyway due to unrelated reasons.

I don't think the time matter in this case even if it happened a year earlier.

[The Fury]

Rowling... Ehh... I'm disappointed in her but not surprised. Which is always kind of painful to say.

Something I wonder though-- years ago, there have been at least a few fans that jumped ship from Ursula K. LeGuin because of her views on fanfic and other transformative works. Since JK Rowling was actively encouraging readers to write fanfics and create other fanworks she seemed very appealing. Now... considering Rowling's views and the kinds of things that LeGuin wrote, (Left Hand of Darkness especially,) I wonder if some of those fans will go back to LeGuin's books.

[Comrade]

I can't imagine caring so much about fanfiction that an author's opinion of it would make you drop them altogether. Especially if that author is Ursula LeGuin.

[Bartmanhomer]

J.K. Rowling definitely lost her fanbase for good. I can imagine her fans are very heartbroken by the shocking revelations of J.K. Rowling.

[Cazero]

I have no idea what those 'revelations' are, and frankly, I don't care. I never had any trouble detaching a work from its author.

[Anonymouswizard]

I don't think the time matter in this case even if it happened a year earlier.

There's things going on here which means that she's pisses off a group with much more important things to be up in arms about. Basically, this would have been ignorable to me if she hadn't revealed these views incredibly close to others acting on then.

I have no idea what those 'revelations' are, and frankly, I don't care. I never had any trouble detaching a work from its author.

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Transphobia. While I don't know the full details, it's very close to the 'they're men who only want access to women's spaces to abuse women' camp.

I completely understand your position, although honestly I don't agree with financially supporting authors with views I inherently disagree on. Therefore, in the unlikely event that Rowling releases a book I actually want to read I'll borrow it from my local library rather than get it on my kindle.

[The Fury]

I can't imagine caring so much about fanfiction that an author's opinion of it would make you drop them altogether. Especially if that author is Ursula LeGuin.

The revelation that Ursula K. LeGuin would have hated any fanfics that you wrote, regardless of whether or not it's good, is a little much for some people.

Though I would agree, compared to what Rowling has been saying these opinions seem fairly inoffensive.

[Fyraltari]

I hate to have to break this to you, but you're French.

Grey Wolf

So, jealousy, then?

[Bartmanhomer]

There's things going on here which means that she's pisses off a group with much more important things to be up in arms about. Basically, this would have been ignorable to me if she hadn't revealed these views incredibly close to others acting on then.

Spoiler

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Transphobia. While I don't know the full details, it's very close to the 'they're men who only want access to women's spaces to abuse women' camp.

I completely understand your position, although honestly I don't agree with financially supporting authors with views I inherently disagree on. Therefore, in the unlikely event that Rowling releases a book I actually want to read I'll borrow it from my local library rather than get it on my kindle.

True she should have keep her offensive views to herself. I'm not going to read her books any more or watch any movies. I prefer reading the Book of the Underrealm.

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The Book of the Underrealm is very inclusive to the LGBT characters especially transgender people.

[factotum]

See, I personally don't buy J. K. Rowling books because I prefer books that are competently written and well plotted, but maybe that's just me...

[el minster]

See, I personally don't buy J. K. Rowling books because I prefer books that are competently written and well plotted, but maybe that's just me...

That isn't just you. She got really bad after the first series, but always her books aren't as good as they're made out to be.

[Anonymouswizard]

See, I personally don't buy J. K. Rowling books because I prefer books that are competently written and well plotted, but maybe that's just me...

I mean, this is why I wasn't financially supporting her anyway. Harry Potter is an okay series for twelve year olds, but there's better series out there for them.

[Aotrs Commander]

(Bless the Playground's post-autosave feature. PC cut out again (after 48 hours of no problems, after beginning to think maybe taking the SD card reader out fixed it *sigh*) and this was still here.)

Authors and creators are not their works.

If you go through history and disgard every single piece of media whose creator was an asshat, you will have precious little media left. (This also applies to Other Histroical Things, meaningful glance at certain quarters who I shall not address.)

See, here's the thing - your media writers are human. Therefore, as there is very scant exceptions to the contrary - stasitically, they will be asshats, because statistically humans are asshats. ^{(Source: ten thousands years plus of human histroy and all current and past events.)} Especially if they are not from the current era, that is almost a complete certainty in regard to sensibilities of the modern era.

I can assure you you, if H.P. Lovecraft had a twitter, he would make what Rowling said look like Cliff Richard or something and yet at no point should anyone propose we burn all of his books.

You think Julius Caesar was not an asshat? Or Herodotus? Or Chaucer? Or Shakespeare? Or Leonardo da Vinci?



Granted, it is harder to seperate the twain when the creator is still alive and you certainly don't need to give them more money from that point forwards; but to disgard the media itself when it is not active hate-speech, because the author expouses something you don't agree with (in the mentioned example or any other, whether that is morally or ethicially justifed or not) is foolish.

I stopped watching the Cinema Snob when it became apparent he was an asshat (for reasons which are all to do with him as a person, and not any predjuice (or even especially the Channel Awesome contaversey, it was past that point), it must be noted), but that doesn't mean I immediately regret ever watching anything he did. It doesn't mean his reviews are without merit. I'm not watching anything he does now, because that would be putting money in his pocket (though to be honest, from what a lot of the youtube people say now, probably precious little, actually, but its the principle). But I won't rule out me never watching something he did at some future point.

As another example, there was one very outspoken gentleman on Fimfiction who was... Rather prejudiced in a particular fashion (and eventually took up all his stories and left). But the stories he wrote were extremely good, and his opinions did not perculate into his stories and so I was surprised when I found out, which was at, I think, more or less the point he left. Which further proves my point; in neither of these cases was the media they people produced itself bad, nor tainted.

In short, it's fine to love the work, but damn the artist.

Else doing so says "I want everything I ever do to be judged by my own worst qualities and flaws, too."



(Hell, you should not EVEN attempt to revise media that is out-dated in its contents itself. (Biggles in Australia, for one, springs to mind.) But how will future generations be able to look back and have a jolly old laugh at the concept of how it was before All Stripes Of Factionalism Were Killed Stone Dead And Humanity Actually Became A Worthwhile Species if you don't retain the examples?)

[deltamire]

Authors and creators are not their works.

You're hit the nail on the head regarding the whole 'disconnect the original authorial intent from the author', but the problem with JKR is that unfortunately her personal intent has leeched into her works, often to a disturbing degree. I'm not going to go into detail, because I value my own sanity and self-worth, but:

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her adult book The Silkworm (written under the pen name Robert Galbraith, who just so happens to share a name with Robert Galbraith Heath, a scientist who was involved in pioneering what would go on to become f***ing conversion therapy, and also just general medical malpractice. very classy, jkr.) contains a scene in which a trans woman is vilified, outed, and then there's a delightful joke regarding the fact that she's pre-op. Not to mention the weird fetishizing of mixed race / black people and weird disdain that permeates a lot of British media of working class people.

Like, I can understand that you're willing to separate the work from the author. But that doesn't mean we can't be critical of said works. JK Rowling is one of the most well-known people in the creative arts world, especially to children, and is, no bones about it, the biggest name in publishing. She has a platform that millions see. Just because she isn't actively scribbling 'I HATE TRANS PEOPLE' over her books doesn't mean those views affect how she writes. And, in relation to the Silkworm, sometimes she is just straight up saying she hates us.

[LaZodiac]

See, I personally don't buy J. K. Rowling books because I prefer books that are competently written and well plotted, but maybe that's just me...

True she should have keep her offensive views to herself. I'm not going to read her books any more or watch any movies. I prefer reading the Book of the Underrealm.

Spoiler

Show

The Book of the Underrealm is very inclusive to the LGBT characters especially transgender people.

Competently written, well plotted, and with LGBTA characters you say. Well have I got the book for you~.

By which I mean I have a book out that is those things.

Anyway hey today, for the first time in awhile, I had a bought of "oops breathing I thought that was stupid". Something intensely bad feeling, like bile rising, caused it to be VERY hard to breath. I was able to shake it off and spent the last ten minutes cough/spitting into the toilet so I'm okay, but GOD is it a bad way to start your morning.

[Aotrs Commander]

You're hit the nail on the head regarding the whole 'disconnect the original authorial intent from the author', but the problem with JKR is that unfortunately her personal intent has leeched into her works, often to a disturbing degree. I'm not going to go into detail, because I value my own sanity and self-worth, but:

Spoiler

Show

her adult book The Silkworm (written under the pen name Robert Galbraith, who just so happens to share a name with Robert Galbraith Heath, a scientist who was involved in pioneering what would go on to become f***ing conversion therapy, and also just general medical malpractice. very classy, jkr.) contains a scene in which a trans woman is vilified, outed, and then there's a delightful joke regarding the fact that she's pre-op. Not to mention the weird fetishizing of mixed race / black people and weird disdain that permeates a lot of British media of working class people.

Like, I can understand that you're willing to separate the work from the author. But that doesn't mean we can't be critical of said works. JK Rowling is one of the most well-known people in the creative arts world, especially to children, and is, no bones about it, the biggest name in publishing. She has a platform that millions see. Just because she isn't actively scribbling 'I HATE TRANS PEOPLE' over her books doesn't mean those views affect how she writes. And, in relation to the Silkworm, sometimes she is just straight up saying she hates us.

I can't speak of that book specifically (I've only read her HP works) - that might indeed cross the threshold into "hate speech," if that is the case (perhaps it is Rowling's own Holy Terror (in the Frank Miller sense; he was, at one, point critiically accliamed after all, before he went off the rails)); but bartmanhomer specifically mentioned he wasn't going to read HP again because of it, something which is by itself, innocent of such.

(I'm sure someone somewhere has found a way to look at to to say otherwise, but the people that look for patterns tend to always find them by virtue of pattern recognition - and, like Pokémon, HP has never been free of accusations for being Morally Wrong from other certain quarters I shall not mention...)

Certainly, though critisise a work, but it would be foolish to critisise all other works with the same issue if they do not endemically display the same problems, just because they come from the same source. (One should not accurse Jade Empire because Anthem was dreadful, simply because they were both produced by Bioware, for example.)



People change too. Rowling may not be quite the same person as she was when she wrote HP and not for the better, perhaps.

One might also point, in the other direction; look at James Gunn, being pilloried for something he'd said (and apologised for) years prior because someone went through his twitter with a grudge.

(Also a good reason why you should watch your words everywhere on the internet.)



Context, as always, is important, because reality doent boil down into convenient categories and the human insistence on trying to do that is EXACTLY what leads to the ever-present factionalism; reinforcing that sort of thinking, even in areas that don't seem important, is what must be avoided, else it will never go away, merely change the forms the faction takes.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So, jealousy, then?

No, acceptable target.

Grey Wolf

[BisectedBrioche]

J.K. Rowling definitely lost her fanbase for good. I can imagine her fans are very heartbroken by the shocking revelations of J.K. Rowling.

Like you wouldn't believe.

The worst part is the way it slowly became more and more obvious (first we started seeing dogwhistles, and noticing she was liking/following prominent transphobes, then eventually she accidentally posted a piece of a transphobic article into a tweet).

There's nothing worse than knowing someone hates you, and nobody believing you.

[Anonymouswizard]

Like you wouldn't believe.

The worst part is the way it slowly became more and more obvious (first we started seeing dogwhistles, and noticing she was liking/following prominent transphobes, then eventually she accidentally posted a piece of a transphobic article into a tweet).

There's nothing worse than knowing someone hates you, and nobody believing you.

I honestly didn't notice until it got the news because I don't follow her, for reasons I've only recently worked out (the HP books are not only horribly written, to me they feel very heteronormative). If you'd told me before they she's teansphobic I wouldn't have cared, because I already hated the idolisation of her.

But hey, I love trans people. And apparently a couple find me cute, because I have to save for some post-lockdown dates (and, by request, keep the stache when I shave off the lockdown beard).