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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default High-INT Melee Characters

    I'm fairly new and inexperienced at 5E, and I'm just wondering if there's any archetype for a melee-based character that directly benefits from a high Intelligence score.
    This is for a fairly short campaign so I'm not really looking at something as intensive as an artificer. Unless I'm misreading what that class is about, it looks like a class better suited to longer campaigns.

    Just wondering if there's like a fighter archetype or something that lets you add INT to your initiative or something.
    Dun Eistein.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Not too many things let you add a different stat to initiative or anything, but Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters can both be good in melee and can benefit from higher Int scores. Bladesinger Wizards, while not fantastic at staying in melee range, can do some decent melee damage and get +Int to AC (they just get only a d6 hit die, so are a bit squishy).

    Other options are the Artificer, which you point out, and the revised Blood Hunter if your DM allows that. Both can benefit from higher Int, and while Artificers are good at longer term campaigns, they work just fine in one-shots or short campaigns, too.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I'm fairly new and inexperienced at 5E, and I'm just wondering if there's any archetype for a melee-based character that directly benefits from a high Intelligence score.
    This is for a fairly short campaign so I'm not really looking at something as intensive as an artificer. Unless I'm misreading what that class is about, it looks like a class better suited to longer campaigns.

    Just wondering if there's like a fighter archetype or something that lets you add INT to your initiative or something.
    There are basically four classes that care about Int: Artificer, Wizard, and to a lesser extent Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight (which often gets multiclassed with Wizard once you have your third attack). One of the Wizard subclasses gets Int to initiative.

    It's definitely possible to make an Artificer or Wizard who mixes it up on the front line. But there's not really anything like a mundane character whose ability to fight benefits much from Intelligence in 5e.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-05-22 at 03:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    A lot of people will say that Eldritch Knight's can get away with low Intelligence (and they're mostly right), but the chassis is certainly improved with good Intelligence as well! With decent Int, your ranged options could all be spells, with all the defensive options that a heavy armor wielding fighter can get.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Eldritch Knight and Arcane Archer are both Fighter subclasses that use Intelligence for magical abilities.

    The Battle Smith subclass of the Artificer uses Intelligence instead of Dex or Str for weapons.

    A two level dip into War Magic Wizard will let you add Intelligence to initiative as well as some other good stuff.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Battlesmith Artificer, Bladesinger Wizard, Eldritch Knight Fighter, Arcane Trickster Rogue are your main options for melee options utilizing Intelligence.

    I'm not sure what about the Artificer makes you think it's unsuited for a short campaign. I assure you, it would work fine.

    Bladesinger is not a melee damage monster; it's best played as a Wizard first, melee combatant second.

    Eldritch Knight Fighter is a very powerful Fighter who utilizes a little magic to boost its fighting capability. The best way to play this is to find the spells that enhance your attacks and defense, rather than spells you would cast instead of attacking or defending. So for example, Scorching Ray is generally not great. Shield, however, is excellent.

    Arcane Trickster Rogue can function in melee, and you can utilize the cantrips Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade to some effect, though if you're only playing at low levels you won't see too much extra scaling from that. In general, though, Arcane Trickster does just as well at range with half of the fuss needed for melee.

    A few other options exist, but are probably not what you're primarily thinking of. You could build an Enchanter Wizard (likely with a Cleric multiclass) to wade into melee wearing medium or heavy armor, throw down one major concentration spell, then stand next to a brute and keep it hypnotized. But you won't be clobbering things directly, you will just have the requisite defenses to be able to survive in close combat.
    Last edited by Evaar; 2020-05-22 at 03:33 PM.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Is it important that a high intelligence actually directly benefits your character?

    Battlemaster fighter using things like Commander's Strike who is heavily involved heavily in any group planning doesn't actually benefit from a high intelligence but can give the feel of an intelligence based fighter/tactician.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
    Is it important that a high intelligence actually directly benefits your character?

    Battlemaster fighter using things like Commander's Strike who is heavily involved heavily in any group planning doesn't actually benefit from a high intelligence but can give the feel of an intelligence based fighter/tactician.
    That seems more wisdom to me.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Intelligence should be the primary score or can be secondary too? For being primary, probably the best bet is Battlesmith Artificer. Because this is no 4e, where you attack stat was your primary stat, regardless if you were a fighter type and attack was a mental stat. But lately they seem to be leaning onto that, hopefully they will not go to far.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Wizard with Abjuration or War Magic, and a race that gets armor proficiency like Mountain Dwarf or especially a Githyanki, or even a Tortle if you want to completely dump Dex, is the way to go. Get one or more melee cantrips like Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade, and be sure to take War Caster. A House Kundarak Dwarf also deserves mention, it can pick Armor of Agathys as a Wizard spell, which is absolutely amazing as an Abjurer.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Wizard with Abjuration or War Magic, and a race that gets armor proficiency like Mountain Dwarf or especially a Githyanki, or even a Tortle if you want to completely dump Dex, is the way to go. Get one or more melee cantrips like Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade, and be sure to take War Caster. A House Kundarak Dwarf also deserves mention, it can pick Armor of Agathys as a Wizard spell, which is absolutely amazing as an Abjurer.
    Hobgoblin + Moderately Armored is a really good one, since you basically want to be picking up a shield anyways and it's no farther away from a Hobgoblin than it is from a Mountain Dwarf or Githyanki. And because the Save Face ability is really good, kind of like getting the Lucky feat value-wise.

    Vhuman is worse, but can still take Lightly Armored + Moderately Armored at 4, ending up with +2 Dex, +1 Int, +1 Con as they do so.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-05-22 at 09:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    I should clarify that I'm planning to play a human character, or at least one of the basic races. This game is going to be more based around roleplay and politickin' than combat, and I want a character who is conceptually fairly simple and easy for everyone to wrap their heads around.
    We are also starting at level 7 and probably not getting beyond that.

    I want at least a reasonably high Int because Investigate checks will be big in this game. The rest of the party is a Moon Druid (tanking) and a half-elf Lurker in the Deep warlock (debuff and control). This is a mostly nautical campaign.
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I should clarify that I'm planning to play a human character, or at least one of the basic races. This game is going to be more based around roleplay and politickin' than combat, and I want a character who is conceptually fairly simple and easy for everyone to wrap their heads around.
    We are also starting at level 7 and probably not getting beyond that.

    I want at least a reasonably high Int because Investigate checks will be big in this game. The rest of the party is a Moon Druid (tanking) and a half-elf Lurker in the Deep warlock (debuff and control). This is a mostly nautical campaign.
    So if you want int for the skills will it not be better to get a more skill based character like a lore bard, rogue and knowledge cleric?

    All the 3 can do well in combat, get nice skill prof and can get expertise. From my experience you can play a low con lore bard, buff/debuff in combat and hide in a hole so you won't get hit(or get a horse buff and run away).

    Nothing says you need to have a class feature that benefit from int to take it.

    If you really need a reason just take ritual caster wizard because rituals are great out of combat.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I should clarify that I'm planning to play a human character, or at least one of the basic races. This game is going to be more based around roleplay and politickin' than combat, and I want a character who is conceptually fairly simple and easy for everyone to wrap their heads around.
    We are also starting at level 7 and probably not getting beyond that.

    I want at least a reasonably high Int because Investigate checks will be big in this game. The rest of the party is a Moon Druid (tanking) and a half-elf Lurker in the Deep warlock (debuff and control). This is a mostly nautical campaign.
    I don't think Artificer is as complicated as you think, that's what I'd go with: Rock Gnome, Battle Smith, and the steel defender would be a mechanical ostrich not unlike the mechanostrider gnome mounts in World of Warcraft. The Artificer 7 ability can be used to add your Int bonus to any skill check you make, benefiting from that ability bonus twice if it's an Int-based skill. You'll have proficiency with thieves' tools, tinker's tools, smith's tools, and any two other tools of your choice (due to the redundant proficiency rules, PHB p125), plus two skills and whatever your background gives. You only need Dex 14 due to medium armor, a high Int, and a decent Con score, at 4th level take the feat Mounted Combatant. Battle smith gets to use Int for attacks with magic weapons and has martial weapon proficiency, you'll have extra attack, and you can use a shield and a lance. Your background can be anything that feels appropriate, you can go with Knight or Noble or Soldier, or maybe Sage or Folk Hero or Guild Artisan, or anything that gets proficiencies you want, or even a custom background (PHB p125). Get land vehicles just in case.

    You'll have six infusions know, two gained at 6th level which can require Artificer 6+ to learn, plus you'll be able to replace two of your original four infusions with higher level ones upon gaining 6th and 7th level. I would get Enhanced Defense, Radiant Weapon, Replicate Magic Item, Repulsion Shield, and Homunculus Servant, plus one more. You can completely change up all three of your currently infused items every time you finish a long rest, so you can walk around with a radiant melee weapon, a homonculus, and a lantern of revealing when not expecting combat, or buff your armor, shield, and weapon when expecting a fight. You should be able to have half plate, which will give you an AC 19 with Dex 14 and a shield, or AC 21 with the armor and shield buffed to +1. Use a lance since you'll be on the mechanostrider, it's a medium mount so you can reliably use it in dungeon crawls even, and use a military saddle.

    Regarding keeping your hands full with the shield and lance but also needing to have a hand free to cast spells, your steel defender can help with that. Your lance should be attached to a spring that's attached to the steel defender, its normal state is pointed up from its back. You can grab the lance and pull it down to make attacks with it as your one free item interaction per turn, or if you drop it the thing just sproings back up where you can grab it again as needed. You can do the same with a tool that you can grab and use as a spellcasting focus when needed. Dropping one item to grab another should both be part of the same item interaction, it doesn't take much effort to drop something after all. With Mounted Combatant you can make any attacks against the steel defender target you, and the steel defender can use its reaction to make one attack against you per round have disadvantage.

    You'll only have a few spells, plus the battle smith spells, your cantrips need to include Mending, so I'd also get a ranged attack like Fire Bolt. You'll have 3+Int modifier spells prepared of 1st or 2nd level, Absorb Elements is a must-have, Faerie Fire is amazing, Heat Metal is amazing when used on an armored foe, you can get Cure Wounds and/or Lesser Restoration, and Web is good. You don't really need to cast many spells during combat, so aim to start out with something strong and make attacks or use your cantrip for most of a given fight. Use your bonus actions to have your steel defender or homonculus attack every round, ordering your steel defender to attack an opponent will also get it to move to that opponent.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Have a look at a High Elf Arcane Trickster Rogue 5/War Wizard 2. You can use a longbow and get good Sneak Attack damage, Int bonus to Initiative, and 7 skills. You also get +4 to saves or +2 to AC as a reaction, and open up a bunch of options for spell choices.

    Edit: Whoops... you said Human. This still works fine with a short bow. Or you could take 1 level of fighter and carry a heavy crossbow and pick up the Mariner fighting style for the swim speed.
    Last edited by Crgaston; 2020-05-23 at 01:51 PM.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    That seems more wisdom to me.
    A good tactician would be both. But to a certain extent you're right I would assume a high Wisdom Tactician type character would be great at spotting openings in the enemies defence which is aligns with Commander's Strike but since it's all RP anyways it can easily be played as intelligence/planning/tactics.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    I was gonna suggest Inquisitive Rogue, but checking again its combat stuff is keyed off of Wisdom. Mastermind Rogue likewise feels like it would use Intelligence, but actually doesn't.
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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    I was gonna suggest Inquisitive Rogue, but checking again its combat stuff is keyed off of Wisdom. Mastermind Rogue likewise feels like it would use Intelligence, but actually doesn't.
    For what it's worth, it does provide some buffs to Intelligence (Investigation) checks, so combined with the flavour it might still be worth a look. Specifically, at level 9 it gives advantage on Perception and Investigation checks "if you move no more than half your speed on the same turn" -- which to my mind, is likely most Perception and Investigation checks you'll make out of combat.

    Having high Insight and Perception -- Wisdom skills -- might also be nice to have in a more politick-based campaign for the same reason OP wants Investigate, and getting a mini Insight-specific Reliable Talent is always nice for low levels. Expertise in Investigate could make up for lower Int.

    Now, I still don't know if it's necessarily the best option for the OP, and it would mean shifting the focus to being highly percept and aware rather than strictly book-smart. The Druid will probably also have a high Wisdom unless they're doing something pretty kooky. But hey.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I'm fairly new and inexperienced at 5E, and I'm just wondering if there's any archetype for a melee-based character that directly benefits from a high Intelligence score.
    This is for a fairly short campaign so I'm not really looking at something as intensive as an artificer. Unless I'm misreading what that class is about, it looks like a class better suited to longer campaigns.

    Just wondering if there's like a fighter archetype or something that lets you add INT to your initiative or something.
    The artificer only really benefits from magic item crafting overly much at levels 10+; until then they work fine without magic items due to their infusions. As this is the only part of their kit requiring downtime, it's not an issue at level 7.

    Otherwise-Battlesmith is obvious, and also works well in nautical campaigns because infusions can be used to get swim speeds.

    Arcane Trickster seems like a good fit as well, for what you want. As a bonus, Rogue weapons work underwater.

    Eldritch Knight is okay, given the nautical campaign I'd recommend a spear+shield polearm master build so you don't have to worry about underwater combat at any point. It's also a very effective build. Also your armor is a wonderful ballast, with the negative that your armor is a wonderful ballast.

    Finally, the wizard flavors that enter melee combat all peak around the level of your campaign, so a bladesinger or an abjuration wizard could easily work. They would be supplementary melee characters though, so keep that in mind.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Level 7 human Fighter (Eldritch Knight) works fine. Str/Int primary, Con tertiary as your stats. Use magic for your ranged attacks and the occasional Area spell.

    Level 7 is a great starting point for an EK because that's when you get War Magic.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    I don't think Artificer is as complicated as you think, that's what I'd go with: Rock Gnome, Battle Smith, and the steel defender would be a mechanical ostrich not unlike the mechanostrider gnome mounts in World of Warcraft. The Artificer 7 ability can be used to add your Int bonus to any skill check you make, benefiting from that ability bonus twice if it's an Int-based skill. You'll have proficiency with thieves' tools, tinker's tools, smith's tools, and any two other tools of your choice (due to the redundant proficiency rules, PHB p125), plus two skills and whatever your background gives. You only need Dex 14 due to medium armor, a high Int, and a decent Con score, at 4th level take the feat Mounted Combatant. Battle smith gets to use Int for attacks with magic weapons and has martial weapon proficiency, you'll have extra attack, and you can use a shield and a lance. Your background can be anything that feels appropriate, you can go with Knight or Noble or Soldier, or maybe Sage or Folk Hero or Guild Artisan, or anything that gets proficiencies you want, or even a custom background (PHB p125). Get land vehicles just in case.


    Like I said, this is a nautical campaign, and most combat will be aboard ships. Having a mount would be extremely impractical.
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Haven't seen anyone else mention it but, the blood hunter class (available free on Dm's Guild) is about one step below official and is conceptually similar to a "Grey Warden" from dragon age or a "Witcher" from... Witcher. They use intelligence for their "blood curses"and their 1/3 warlock casting (if you choose the casting subclass). They have a few abilities that could be good for RP purposes. I'd recommend giving it a glance.
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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by iTreeby View Post
    Haven't seen anyone else mention it but, the blood hunter class (available free on Dm's Guild) is about one step below official and is conceptually similar to a "Grey Warden" from dragon age or a "Witcher" from... Witcher. They use intelligence for their "blood curses"and their 1/3 warlock casting (if you choose the casting subclass). They have a few abilities that could be good for RP purposes. I'd recommend giving it a glance.
    It's a very cool class. Might be a bit too high-concept for this game, though. We've already got a weird Lovecraftian warlock dude and a very strange druid and I was hoping to be the relatively normal one.

    Probably going to go swashbuckler and just try to get my intelligence reasonably high, though Eldritch Knight is one I want to look at in more detail.
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    I have an arcane trickster in Avernus right now, 16 INT, +1 dagger, and booming blade. I still use the short bow more often

    Blood Hunter is another great INT-based melee

    Artificer Battle Smith takes this to the extreme where they can dump DEX and STR and use INT for their attack rolls

    Eldritch Knight wants INT to some extent but I tend to use spells that aren't dependent on saving throws and therefore don't exactly benefit from INT

    Wizards, specifically Bladesingers, abjurers, and warmages, can function decently in melee particularly if they can get a free armor proficiency from racial features (Mountain Dwarf, Githyanki, Hobgoblin, elf or half-elf Bladesinger). Note that "function" does not necessarily mean attacking. Even if you have good armor and find yourself in melee, you still probably want to be primarily casting spells. But an abjurer in medium armor with a full arcane ward can laugh off a few melee hits without even ever making a concentration check
    Last edited by beargryllz; 2020-05-24 at 12:54 PM.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Psi Knight from recent UA gets some decent bonuses from high int. Still behind str or dex, but higher priority than even Con, I think.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    If the GM allows it, the UA fighter archetype Rune Knight uses Int for some of its abilities and can give you interesting non-combat benefits.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I should clarify that I'm planning to play a human character, or at least one of the basic races. This game is going to be more based around roleplay and politickin' than combat, and I want a character who is conceptually fairly simple and easy for everyone to wrap their heads around.
    We are also starting at level 7 and probably not getting beyond that.

    I want at least a reasonably high Int because Investigate checks will be big in this game. The rest of the party is a Moon Druid (tanking) and a half-elf Lurker in the Deep warlock (debuff and control). This is a mostly nautical campaign.
    Given this, I would go Eldritch Knight Figher 5/War Mage Wizard 2. Pick your favorite between Dexterity or Strength, get a respectable Con, then go as high Intelligence as you can afford.

    This gives you the benefits of intelligence to your initiative and a magical defensive reaction, plus your Extra Attack from Fighter. If you aren't gaining any levels after that, you'll still feel this was a solid character. If you do, just keep going Fighter and you'll get something nice every level.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Evaar View Post
    Given this, I would go Eldritch Knight Figher 5/War Mage Wizard 2. Pick your favorite between Dexterity or Strength, get a respectable Con, then go as high Intelligence as you can afford.
    Straight EK 7 is far superior.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    If investigation is really important, go Arcane Trickster, get expertise in Perception and investigation, and max int or dex. Use SCAG cantrips to deal good damage, and take observant for the better passive Investigation and Perception. Find Familiar (Bat) can get you keen hearing and seeing, as well as blindsight if something's particularly tricky. You can also get an octopus, if this is important for the campaign.

    Arcane Tricksters are easy for everyone to wrap their heads around, and they're considered to fill one of the "classic roles" of a party. Invisible mage hand is incredibly versatile and fun, and you won't be lacking in or out of combat.

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    Default Re: High-INT Melee Characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I should clarify that I'm planning to play a human character, or at least one of the basic races. This game is going to be more based around roleplay and politickin' than combat, and I want a character who is conceptually fairly simple and easy for everyone to wrap their heads around.
    We are also starting at level 7 and probably not getting beyond that.

    I want at least a reasonably high Int because Investigate checks will be big in this game. The rest of the party is a Moon Druid (tanking) and a half-elf Lurker in the Deep warlock (debuff and control). This is a mostly nautical campaign.
    If you want to be an investigator that hits people in melee and benefits from a reasonably high Int, I recommend Arcane Trickster. It's a rogue who can cast a few Int based spells.

    Rogues are one of the skill expert classes so you can excel at investigation, perception, and intuition (which is sense motive).
    Last edited by ShikomeKidoMi; 2020-05-26 at 10:45 PM.

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