The Averageness of an Average PC

[Ignimortis]

First of all, pardon the tautology, I couldn't resist.

But to the topic at hand. Is it just me, or do most (not all, since I don't know that many) non-generic systems/games put you in the shoes of an average person? Not the average person in the world, mind you, not the commoner or a civilian or someone unaware of the larger picture, but an average or even below average X - adventurer, specialist, shadowrunner, supernatural creature, etc?

As in, the games assume that the starting character is, by definition, starting out, and has a long way to go, and is basically at the lower end of the food chain not only mechanically (which makes sense, players usually want to progress and grow stronger), but also narratively, i.e. the world is actually has quite a lot of somewhat normal (i.e. not one in a billion) people who are outright better than you, and what's even worse - the world is even fuller with people who are on your level, despite you being from a somewhat special group by premise?

I can't seem to recall any game aside from Exalted where you started out as someone already elite to the point that there were maybe fifty, maybe a hundred people or less, as cool as you even at chargen. It can work, too - your enemies would have to be either numerous and influential enough that their sheer numbers can compensate, or inhuman and different enough that you can't be compared to them in any capacity but mechanical stats.

I've been discussing this with a friend, and he also said that he couldn't remember any tabletop RPG where you played as someone potentially irrepleaceable and absolutely above the 99.999999% of the rest.

Any thoughts on why that works like this? What games avoid this in some way?

Edit: This is less about power levels (though it is in some form about power levels, I guess) and more about your PC being really irreplaceable due to the mechanical and presumed-setting factors. Even a god doesn't matter when you can just have another god ready to take their place, but a perfectly realistic, if very good at their job, human, could be someone absolutely necessary as they are, because there simply aren't many/any other people of their expertise in the particular subject you're likely to face.

[Zombimode]

Doesn't this deppend solely on the chosen starting point for the adventure/campaign?

Usually the DM can pick any point in the progression as a starting point. But in order to be able to choose any point the progression needs to start at Novice level.

There are of course special cases of games that don't provide a progression in the classical sense. Take Star Trek Adventures for instance: the characters progress in Believes and Values etc. but not in abilities. But since your skills already are at peak professional Starfleet Officer level it would be a moot point.

[Spore]

The World of Darkness systems place you in a certain category that stand out from the common folk (mages are mortal but with magic, vampires are superhuman but have fatal flaws, werewolves are extremely powerful but might loose control to the beast etc.). In D&D and similar systems you are a very average adventurer. What differentiates you from the commoner is honestly your potential, starting power and wealth (you are not batman-rich but you have enough to start your career).

First any RPG I know is about acquisition of power (notable exception would be Call of Cthulhu which is just a survival game). Secondly any sufficiently high level game i played devolved into a politics simulator. Both things are pretty boring to me. I dont want to start the game already powerful enough to stomp out a skyscraper. And if I wanted a politics simulator I would boot up Tropico or City Skylines or even Civ 5.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I've been discussing this with a friend, and he also said that he couldn't remember any tabletop RPG where you played as someone potentially irrepleaceable and absolutely above the 99.999999% of the rest.

To place that sentence and number into context; with today's world population that would make you someone who is absolutely clearly semi-objectively better than every single person in the world except maybe a 100 others. So you take out those 100 in a surprise attack and you've prevented anyone from ever threatening you in a way that makes sense for an RPG and win the game forever?

What would the point of this game be? What is the plot hook? With the exception of some versions of Superman and maybe a few documentaries about presidents and popes I don't think I know any media that have "the protagonist is the most powerful person in the world" as a starting point.

[Khedrac]

I would say that most game systems place you as just starting out as an exceptional character.

Most do recognise you as exceptional, otherwise why are you adventuring (or being chose for missions).
Equally, most start characters as just starting to allow for later development.

There are notable exceptions, but because we can usually name specific games, they tend to confirm the "most" part of the above statements.

Games where you really are supposed to be just average:

• Call of Cthulhu - you just got unlucky enough to discover the eldritch horror.
• Paranoia - you are just a average security clone.
• World of Darkness - you are an average non-human preying on the world of humans.

Games where you start out begin play as experienced:

• Traveller - you just retired from your career!

I am sure others can list more, but the vast majority of games are as starting "heroes".

Of course, DMs can and do set up individual campaigns differently

[Ignimortis]

Doesn't this deppend solely on the chosen starting point for the adventure/campaign?

Usually the DM can pick any point in the progression as a starting point. But in order to be able to choose any point the progression needs to start at Novice level.

There are of course special cases of games that don't provide a progression in the classical sense. Take Star Trek Adventures for instance: the characters progress in Believes and Values etc. but not in abilities. But since your skills already are at peak professional Starfleet Officer level it would be a moot point.

Somehow, I have very rarely seen people start a game anywhere higher than 1st level or the equivalent. In D&D-like systems, there were a few cases where we started at level 3 just to skip the tedium of not having any fun abilities, but that's it. In non-D&D systems, all I ever see or hear about is either standard chargen or even custom rules that specifically lower the starting point (i.e. "street level" in Shadowrun, starting as a mortal/ghoul in Vampire, etc). While the stipulation that you can start a game at a higher level does indeed exist, I don't see it being used very often. Then again, it's anecdotal, so maybe I'm in the wrong here?

The World of Darkness systems place you in a certain category that stand out from the common folk (mages are mortal but with magic, vampires are superhuman but have fatal flaws, werewolves are extremely powerful but might loose control to the beast etc.). In D&D and similar systems you are a very average adventurer. What differentiates you from the commoner is honestly your potential, starting power and wealth (you are not batman-rich but you have enough to start your career).

WoD is actually a major contributor to this thread existing, since the starting characters are either usually barely better than humans if you take their weaknesses into account (VtM vampires have probably the worst combination of flaws I've seen attributed to a vampire), or above human but still rather much below average for the splat. I remember that it took quite a while to get to the point where I felt that I actually played, in a certain character's words, "a real effing vampire", and by that point I had about a hundred EXP invested into various disciplines.

[Ignimortis]

To place that sentence and number into context; with today's world population that would make you someone who is absolutely clearly semi-objectively better than every single person in the world except maybe a 100 others. So you take out those 100 in a surprise attack and you've prevented anyone from ever threatening you in a way that makes sense for an RPG and win the game forever?

What would the point of this game be? What is the plot hook? With the exception of some versions of Superman and maybe a few documentaries about presidents and popes I don't think I know any media that have "the protagonist is the most powerful person in the world" as a starting point.

If we're keeping it somewhat grounded, then something like Metal Gear, I suspect, or maybe some spy game, or a detective-action game where you play as a really elite member of some organization dedicated to a globally-important mission. Deus Ex comes to mind, too. There are other people on your level, but they're rare and legendary in their own right, and while normal mooks are dime a dozen, there aren't ten thousand level 5 adventurers or 1000 karma shadowrunners roaming around, and you're not, as it may be, expendable?

I would say that most game systems place you as just starting out as an exceptional character.

Most do recognise you as exceptional, otherwise why are you adventuring (or being chose for missions).
Equally, most start characters as just starting to allow for later development.

There are notable exceptions, but because we can usually name specific games, they tend to confirm the "most" part of the above statements.

Games where you really are supposed to be just average:

• Call of Cthulhu - you just got unlucky enough to discover the eldritch horror.
• Paranoia - you are just a average security clone.
• World of Darkness - you are an average non-human preying on the world of humans.

Games where you start out begin play as experienced:

• Traveller - you just retired from your career!

I am sure others can list more, but the vast majority of games are as starting "heroes".

Of course, DMs can and do set up individual campaigns differently

I'm not sure about that, since I remember D&D settings to be full of high-level heroes, and even fuller of mid-level adventurers going around. Sure, you can grow to become exceptional, but unless you get to levels unusual for the setting (which in some of them is basically "epic"), you're just another one of those, even if you did save the world once or twice in the process.

[Quertus]

Yeah, this is a big problem. I am mostly interested in telling proactive stories about changing the world, and most systems have this bulk of "people way higher level than you" in the way of that goal. In D&D, I'd want to start out as a 20th level Lich king, minimum, if not a god; in WoD, I'd want hundreds of not thousands of XP for a "starting" top dog character with seeming world-changing potential.

The only system that comes to mind that *kinda* sidesteps this problem is the old Marvel facerip system: character creation was completely random, so you could start out as anyone from an Aunt May equivalent, to someone with actual world-changing powers. Still nowhere near top dog, mind you, but able to create life, or grant super powers, or make money out of thin air, or otherwise actually have a proactive impact on the setting, and do so in ways that hundreds or millions of other higher level characters couldn't do better.

[Random Sanity]

I've seen a couple systems where you can start at high power levels relative to the setting, but both were niche products.

First one that comes to mind is the Deathwatch branch of the WH40K RPG: you're an elite among elites, and a squad of starting PCs deploying to the right location can potentially turn a planetary conflict upside-down. Hope you like space marines and grimdark.

The other is Cartoon Action Hour, which is designed to replicate a cheesy Saturday-morning cartoon from the 80's; there are options for the PCs to start off anywhere from street-level to earthshaking depending on the type of series you're running. Wacky shenanigans encouraged.

[Ignimortis]

Yeah, this is a big problem. I am mostly interested in telling proactive stories about changing the world, and most systems have this bulk of "people way higher level than you" in the way of that goal. In D&D, I'd want to start out as a 20th level Lich king, minimum, if not a god; in WoD, I'd want hundreds of not thousands of XP for a "starting" top dog character with seeming world-changing potential.

The only system that comes to mind that *kinda* sidesteps this problem is the old Marvel facerip system: character creation was completely random, so you could start out as anyone from an Aunt May equivalent, to someone with actual world-changing powers. Still nowhere near top dog, mind you, but able to create life, or grant super powers, or make money out of thin air, or otherwise actually have a proactive impact on the setting, and do so in ways that hundreds or millions of other higher level characters couldn't do better.

I honestly cannot comprehend whether you're sarcastic or serious. I don't exactly mean that you rarely get world-changing powers, they aren't really a necessity in this equation. It's more about the scale and the fact that while your PC is supposedly a hero, they're not the hero, and even your party isn't really posed as the party, instead being semi-random, while trained and capable, people who stumble across something plot-related. Or even not plot-related in a looser game where an overarching plot doesn't necessarily exist. That's why I list Metal Gear and Deus Ex as examples - while their protagonists are far from godlike, they possess an array of rather unique merits and backstories that make them uniquely suited for the task at hand, and it's pretty clear that there isn't another Adam Jensen, JC Denton, Snake or Raiden around the corner who could do the same thing just as well.

[Drascin]

First of all, pardon the tautology, I couldn't resist.

But to the topic at hand. Is it just me, or do most (not all, since I don't know that many) non-generic systems/games put you in the shoes of an average person? Not the average person in the world, mind you, not the commoner or a civilian or someone unaware of the larger picture, but an average or even below average X - adventurer, specialist, shadowrunner, supernatural creature, etc?

...no? There's a whole spectrum, from "you're a complete nooblet" to "you're one of the most unique people on the planet".

And I mean, even in some where you're technically "new", it's new in the sense of "you're new, but you're new at being a superpowered demigod of which there are a hundred in the entire world, who can stop bullets with his mind and cut buildings in half", so. Like. Being new at being a Highlander still makes you a goddamn Highlander!

[Ignimortis]

I've seen a couple systems where you can start at high power levels relative to the setting, but both were niche products.

First one that comes to mind is the Deathwatch branch of the WH40K RPG: you're an elite among elites, and a squad of starting PCs deploying to the right location can potentially turn a planetary conflict upside-down. Hope you like space marines and grimdark.

The other is Cartoon Action Hour, which is designed to replicate a cheesy Saturday-morning cartoon from the 80's; there are options for the PCs to start off anywhere from street-level to earthshaking depending on the type of series you're running. Wacky shenanigans encouraged.

That's not exactly what I mean, but close enough, I guess? I've updated the OP a bit to try and clarify what I'm talking about.

It's less about raw power and more about your PC being really, really unique in the game world. if you're a master at X, then anyone even close to you should probably be rare, etc, etc. But most games have chargen and enemy mechanics that imply that A) you're not really that unique B) there are tons of people who are better than you, and nothing, not even common sense, forbids the GM from making someone who's still better than you by the time you surpass the common enemies, because if you did it, then basically anyone can do it.

...no? There's a whole spectrum, from "you're a complete nooblet" to "you're one of the most unique people on the planet".

And I mean, even in some where you're technically "new", it's new in the sense of "you're new, but you're new at being a superpowered demigod of which there are a hundred in the entire world, who can stop bullets with his mind and cut buildings in half", so. Like. Being new at being a Highlander still makes you a goddamn Highlander!

I did mention Exalted as an exception, because there are like 50 Solars in the world, Solars are the default player option, and anyone who's not a Solar is directly below them on the totem pole of coolness in their area(s) of expertise. Exalted actually fits my criteria for this thread, although it is a bit too high-powered for some things I have in mind, but the general design principles are exactly what I'm talking about.

[Random Sanity]

So less about power, and more about plot impact? Cartoon Action Hour still fits - regardless of the power rating you use for chargen, the game runs on a "star power" mechanic rather than character levels, with a 1-4 rating depending on how big a deal/hard to replace the character is to the story. PCs are usually a 3 out of 4, with most named NPCs being 2 and only the BBEG getting a 4. Again, this comes with the "playing a cartoon" caveat.

Still, it is pretty surprising how few systems really cater to the "you are the protagonist" thing, mechanically speaking, despite that being the supposed premise of tabletop roleplaying in general.

[Alcore]

This right here;

Edit: This is less about power levels (though it is in some form about power levels, I guess) and more about your PC being really irreplaceable due to the mechanical and presumed-setting factors. Ect...

Invalidates the vast majority of examples i have. Even Mutants and Masterminds (which can run on comic book logic, DM permitting) can easily replace a superman with another one that while not the same can still do the job.


The offshoot of Mongoose Traveller (called Mindjammer) kinda does this. In the mindjammer universe the characters are effectively immortal, some more than others, with multiple skills near the max, a ship that can fly itself (often a PC in its own right) and more wealth and tools than they likely need. In comparison to the tramp traders in the main who might have a skill near the max, is fighting off old age, the ship is imitating the Millennium Falcon and bankruptcy is a few feet behind them.


The only game that makes you feel truly irreplaceable, to the common man, is Dungeons and Dragons. An average human has straight tens. The average PC has a sixteen (assuming they don't balk at such a low score) with higher than ten in just about all others. Top ten percent already. By level ten its the top one percent. By level twenty you're likely killing the only other level twenties you know.

[Aotrs Commander]

Somehow, I have very rarely seen people start a game anywhere higher than 1st level or the equivalent. In D&D-like systems, there were a few cases where we started at level 3 just to skip the tedium of not having any fun abilities, but that's it.

On this point, I tend to start out say-quest parties above first level all the time, be it 3.s or Rolemaster (the most recent party of the latter started at level 5). Granted, in geneal for weekly games we start at level 1, but that's often because we're running throiugh a module or AP, but even then I have at least one once occasion started a party at level 10 or 11 for a specific adventure I was going to run.

I have also on the odd occasion run a game where one or more PCs were The Chosen One, but from level 1.

However, in none of those cases where the the PCs "th best there is around;" the one partty that reached (and one potential current party that might make it to) Epic pretty much BECAME that (and indeed, off-screen, the former were attributed to have basically gone in and Ruined The Chosen One plot - because we'd fundementally abandoned that party a decade or so prior and I wanted to give it some closure).

[Ignimortis]

The only game that makes you feel truly irreplaceable, to the common man, is Dungeons and Dragons. An average human has straight tens. The average PC has a sixteen (assuming they don't balk at such a low score) with higher than ten in just about all others. Top ten percent already. By level ten its the top one percent. By level twenty you're likely killing the only other level twenties you know.

You'd think so, but the chargen mechanics actually make the implied setting full of superhumans who run around killing monsters and eventually get to level 20 because after a while, the only survival factor is one of your party surviving, stowing the bodies in a Bag of Holding and hauling you off to pay for your resurrection. The only thing that limits this is the DM saying that PCs are rare and no NPCs are actually using PC chargen.

[Kaptin Keen]

If your starting point is to be among the ... what was that, 0,0000001%? Then what is the point of the game, and where is the potential for growth?

[Ignimortis]

If your starting point is to be among the ... what was that, 0,0000001%? Then what is the point of the game, and where is the potential for growth?

The potential for growth is there. Exalted does that, and I'm pretty sure you could whip up a game about super agents which are already as good as humans can get at something during chargen, but become even better during gameplay.

The point could be a lot of things. My friend suggested a mix between X-Files, Metal Gear and F.E.A.R. - you're elite military/government specialists who investigate the weird stuff, like "are there actually vampires?" or some global conspiracy or whatever.

[prabe]

There are systems/settings where your character is, if not irreplaceable, at least part of (at least in principle) a vanishingly small group, even at the start. Someone mentioned White Wolf above, and that's a pretty good example. Many Supers settings are in a similar vein, though that can vary with setting (and system--I haven't played either game in its current incarnation, but it's my impression that typical starting characters in Mutants and Masterminds are, for instance, harder to hurt with non-super attacks than typical starting characters in Champions). Someone else mentioned Call of Cthulhu, and while that does have a survival aspect to it, and replacing your character is ... something you should be prepared to do at all times, it's pretty explicit in the setting and system that the vast majority of people don't see and/or understand the Mythos. Unseen Armies is similar, though you can start as an Avatar of one archetype or another, and your group's goals may not be entirely prosocial.

[Morty]

In Wrath & Glory, the new WH40K RPG, you can begin play at "Tier 4", which translates to Inquisitors, Primaris Space Marines and people badass/important enough to rub shoulders with them. I don't know if it's enough for you, since your standards seem pretty high. I don't think it'd be terribly difficult to use a generic system to make PCs who are powerful and important, either. Especially superhero-focused ones.

[MoiMagnus]

1) Because that's a trope. "Zero to Hero".
2) Technical systems usually have the complexity of playing a character correlated to their power in a universe. And you want the character to start simple and gain more and more technical depth as the players progressively grow accustomed to them.
3) Because the average DM is bad at correctly handling high scales. It is much easier to maintain believable the life of the "average adventurer" than having to build some believable political factions and power struggle. And "weak" PCs also mean the scope of their actions is manageable and will much rarely get out of what the DM want to track for the campaign.
4) Character growth is much more obvious when you start low.

Though, when I'm DMing or playing homebrew/improvised RPGs I personally prefer having each PC start with "worldwide recognition" on one specific field (or the capacity to have one if they wanted to). Not "the best", but most expert of the field have probably heard of them. [Note: "worldwide" is to adapt to your the setting. If you're not in modern time, that's probably more "kingdom wide"].

[Alcore]

You'd think so, but the chargen mechanics actually make the implied setting full of superhumans who run around killing monsters and eventually get to level 20 because after a while, the only survival factor is one of your party surviving, stowing the bodies in a Bag of Holding and hauling you off to pay for your resurrection. The only thing that limits this is the DM saying that PCs are rare and no NPCs are actually using PC chargen.

*shrug* never said it was perfect.


Your question is kinda setting specific than system specific. (At least before the edit).

[Telok]

Pendragon may count. You start off as a reasonably capable knight in Authurian legend. The chaps at the round table are better than you, but you start out at shoulder rubbing distance to them. Absolutely better than the peasantry.

Dungeons the Dragoning 40k 7e does it, depending on how the DM wants to populate the setting. You cam start laying the beat down on dragons, daemons, and liches from day one if you're not completely stupid (stupid is a straight up D&D style i-hit-u-hit fight).

Any of the superhero games does as long as you aren't going for a below average 'street level' variant. You can always run a high end game in those too, most supers games tend to at least try to get their power scaling right.

[Drascin]

That's not exactly what I mean, but close enough, I guess? I've updated the OP a bit to try and clarify what I'm talking about.

It's less about raw power and more about your PC being really, really unique in the game world. if you're a master at X, then anyone even close to you should probably be rare, etc, etc. But most games have chargen and enemy mechanics that imply that A) you're not really that unique B) there are tons of people who are better than you, and nothing, not even common sense, forbids the GM from making someone who's still better than you by the time you surpass the common enemies, because if you did it, then basically anyone can do it.



I did mention Exalted as an exception, because there are like 50 Solars in the world, Solars are the default player option, and anyone who's not a Solar is directly below them on the totem pole of coolness in their area(s) of expertise. Exalted actually fits my criteria for this thread, although it is a bit too high-powered for some things I have in mind, but the general design principles are exactly what I'm talking about.

Okay, I kinda want to be clear here before we start with examples: there's a massive difference between "the chargen rules allow the GM to make people better than you and the adversaries included in the game are the people who can actually be adversaries to you" and "your character is just a dude". Pretty much every game that is more pulp-y (say, Spirit of the Century, or Legends of the Wulin, or anything in that general stripe) is of the general opinion that yes, there might be people who are your equal or superior, but from moment zero you are among an extremely rare club of people with their own society apart from that of the rest of the world and one of a small few who can do X, X being whatever the campaign is about, and your characters are by definition a cut above everyone else. But of course the GM rules will point out how to build antagonists that can face you. You start at like Hercule Poirot and the fact that Sherlock, Moriarty or Miss Marple exist and are smarter than you and you WILL run into them because that's the way the universe works doesn't make you any less Poirot.

I mean, hell, one of your examples is what, X-files and MGS? Mulder and Scully are about as special as dirt, and the entire point of the first MGS is that Snake is not some super gifted genetic wunderkind (that's Liquid), he's just a cloned dude who was trained from birth to be very good at soldiering. This is, like, basic FATE character material.

Anyway, for examples. Power levels absent, most Supers games tend to assume your specific kind of powers are probably rare if not unique. Most wuxia style games basically have a very clear separation between the kung fu practitioners, which includes the PCs and are important, and literally everyone else, who can't punch worth a damn and are window dressing. In general, these kinds of action movie style games are big into this.

But even if you absolutely, positively need the game itself to tell you nobody else can be like you, you also have options. First thing that comes to mind is Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine. Mostly because of the combination of fully purpose-built narrative sheet and highly whimsical/philosophical setting. To give you an example, one of the premade showcase characters you can play in the provided base scenario is the Sun. No, I don't mean like a sun powered hero. I mean the anthropomorphic personification of the actual Sun in the sky. Her name is Jade Irinka. You don't get more unique and special than that! In general, if you need to be absolutely unique, you will need to build it with one of the games that give you open ended options.

[Ignimortis]

*snip*

*snip*

*snip*

*snip*

As I've said, it's not exactly about power level or even importance. Thinking about it really hard, I'd say that it's something like...

How plausible in-setting it would be to roll up a second character who is very similar in general aptitudes and skills, to replace the first one? Like, say, you have an astronaut - how many of those can you afford to lose to various circumstances, narratively, before there's nobody to actually fly Apollo 11? Can you just plausibly excuse the new guy being around the same level of competence and skill? If the answer is "rather easy", then it's a fail by the criteria set here. For instance, it's pretty hard to just replace a dead Solar in Exalted, because there are only 50 in existence, which means that all of them who exist can have enough range in skills that no two of them are alike enough - there very well might not be a second Dawn Solar who focuses on army-slaying, or something.

That's why I mention videogames like MGS and Deus Ex - the point isn't that their protags have special powers, but rather that there is plausibly no one available to replace them quickly or at all in the event of their failure/demise. The US doesn't have another super agent in MGS 1 to send in if Snake messes up, Sarif doesn't have another heavily augmented ex-SWAT professional cop to send on an investigation, etc. Whereas games usually have easy replacements available (and are presumed to work that way), unless the GM outright blocks that from working.

D&D, VtM and Shadowrun fail this test pretty quickly, and with how large WH40k is, I would assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that even things like Deathwatch and Wrath and Glory can have replacements pretty easily. Pendragon might be right with that, since even the extended knighthood is probably less than 150-200 people. Call of Cthulhu also might work, although Lovecraftian horror isn't really what I'm after here (though it's more about general principles).

1) Because that's a trope. "Zero to Hero".
2) Technical systems usually have the complexity of playing a character correlated to their power in a universe. And you want the character to start simple and gain more and more technical depth as the players progressively grow accustomed to them.
3) Because the average DM is bad at correctly handling high scales. It is much easier to maintain believable the life of the "average adventurer" than having to build some believable political factions and power struggle. And "weak" PCs also mean the scope of their actions is manageable and will much rarely get out of what the DM want to track for the campaign.
4) Character growth is much more obvious when you start low.

Though, when I'm DMing or playing homebrew/improvised RPGs I personally prefer having each PC start with "worldwide recognition" on one specific field (or the capacity to have one if they wanted to). Not "the best", but most expert of the field have probably heard of them. [Note: "worldwide" is to adapt to your the setting. If you're not in modern time, that's probably more "kingdom wide"].

Well, that makes sense in general. It also frees up the genre to play no-name nobodies, I guess, although I think it could be done in reverse - if you want, you can play no-name mercenaries or adventurers, but by default you're well-recognized and rather unique.

[Zarrgon]

Is it not totally up to the players of a game what "shoes" they wear? Very few games have a rule that says you must start playing the game at the lowest level. And very few games have rule stating that your character must start as an average nobody.

In any game, if you want to start playing as a 20th level god emperor, king of kings, seventh son of a seventh son, chosen one to rule the world.......you can.

[Kaptin Keen]

The potential for growth is there. Exalted does that, and I'm pretty sure you could whip up a game about super agents which are already as good as humans can get at something during chargen, but become even better during gameplay.

The point could be a lot of things. My friend suggested a mix between X-Files, Metal Gear and F.E.A.R. - you're elite military/government specialists who investigate the weird stuff, like "are there actually vampires?" or some global conspiracy or whatever.

I'd claim that what you want is best achieved by something like D&D E6. Play a character in a world where most everyone else is a 5hp commoner, basically no one has class levels, and you have the potential to eventually cast fireballs, or have let's say 70 hp to the 5 of your expected enemy, and great cleave.

The advantage of E6 is that you don't run out of ways to expand.

If you start right at the top of the super power pyramid, you're making things difficult for yourself. I know there are people who pull that off, and I by no means want to diss the power fantasy - but it's not something I can do.

[Tanarii]

Yes, most games have assumed progression from somewhere below elite to something in the elite. Very few have no power progression built in. Even in exalted, to give the newly elite Solars a run for their money they had to have the world dominated by slightly less elite Terrestials, to provide them with some kind of threat. And it still has Gods and Abyssals and Sidereals for 'higher level' threats.

The thing to remember is RPGs aren't about telling stories. And players generally like seeing some kind of progression or gaining power.

[Jay R]

First, because that’s how many stories are written. Harry Potter starts as an eleven-year-old kid who doesn’t understand magic. Luke is a farmboy who knows nothing about the Force. Frodo is a member of an obscure, mostly powerless bucolic race.

Second, because that’s where suspense comes from. The heroes need to be less powerful than the villains they face. Harry and Hermione spend most of book 7 hiding because Voldemort is so much more powerful, and they are seeking a way to get past his greatest defensive power. The rebellion are sending small one-man fighters in a desperate attempt to defeat the Empire’s biggest weapon. A Fellowship of nine people are sneaking through the wilderness, running from orcs, Nazgul, the Balrog, and others, trying to finish their mission without being noticed by the ultra-powerful Sauron.

Third, quite often the supremely powerful people are sitting behind a desk, sending other people out. They don’t have to adventure any more. Dumbledore is running a school. Most of the Jedi Council are not going out on missions; their primary work is in the capital. Theoden is mostly leading his army.

Even when the hero is supremely powerful, the authors have to send them up against even more supremely powerful villains. He’s a Kryptonian? OK, in the next movie he will face three Kryptonians.

If the heroes are “potentially irrepleaceable and absolutely above the 99.999999% of the rest”, then 99.999999% of all encounters are meaningless. For goblins to have any value as villains, they have to be at least as powerful as the heroes. When the heroes defeat them and face bugbears, the bugbears have to be at least as powerful. And so on.

Finally, if you want to play a game in which your character is more powerful than virtually all people, no problem – such games exist. Play a superhero game – Champions, or Mutants and Masterminds, or some such.

But it won’t get you what you want. If you’re more powerful than everybody except super-villains, then all you will face will be super-villains.

[Quertus]

I honestly cannot comprehend whether you're sarcastic or serious.

A little of both I wasn't sure where you were going.

So, it's a matter of replaceability? And you want games where the PCs are irreplaceable?

Then… any system, if that irreplaceably is through story reasons ("I'm the god-Emperor!") or other, you know, theoretically irreplaceable / nontransferable conditions.

System wise? Random character creation in facerip certainly makes it unlikely that your next character will have any chance of filling a similar role.

From a lore PoV? Exalted? Playing a high-end Lawful outsider in D&D (strictly limited numbers)? Homebrew Paradox (like Rifts, but good) where you probably won't be in a world compatible with your old character concept at the time? Something set in a post-apocalyptic or space station setting, with only a very finite number of people in the entire "world", maybe?