Episode 9: Duel of the Fates Script

[Dargaron]

Definitely. But canonically, Snoke is a Sith so either don't correct that or stop correcting people who say Chirrut has Force powers.

He sates, in Snoke's voice that he was every voice inside Kylo Ren's head, which includes Snoke's. Ergo he was Snoke.

He also starts that line in Darth Vader's voice, but we probably shouldn't assume that Palpatine was Darth Vader too. Palpatine has a clear flair for the dramatic, so taking his grandstanding literally is not necessarily the best option. He could also be talking metaphorically, in the sense that he created Snoke, ergo whatever Snoke told Kylo was coming (eventually) from Palpatine.


(Now, if there had been any scenes in the previous movies where we saw Kylo "communing" with "Darth Vader" and getting anything besides heavy breathing, that would've been a nice explanation for why the now-redeemed Anakin didn't drop in on his grandson and say "WTF man, I rejected the Sith in my final moments, why are you emulating bad me?")

[Vinyadan]

I may have missed it, but when does Snoke talk inside Kylo's head?

[Peelee]

I may have missed it, but when does Snoke talk inside Kylo's head?

Right before he tells the galaxy that he's back.

[Fyraltari]

He also starts that line in Darth Vader's voice, but we probably shouldn't assume that Palpatine was Darth Vader too. Palpatine has a clear flair for the dramatic, so taking his grandstanding literally is not necessarily the best option. He could also be talking metaphorically, in the sense that he created Snoke, ergo whatever Snoke told Kylo was coming (eventually) from Palpatine.


(Now, if there had been any scenes in the previous movies where we saw Kylo "communing" with "Darth Vader" and getting anything besides heavy breathing, that would've been a nice explanation for why the now-redeemed Anakin didn't drop in on his grandson and say "WTF man, I rejected the Sith in my final moments, why are you emulating bad me?")

Except that we know Palpatine wasn't Vader and Kylo has never been around Vader.
Also why do you think they got James Earl Jones and Andy Serkis to voice-cameo in that scene for if Palps was being metaphorical?

[Vinyadan]

Right before he tells the galaxy that he's back.

What film is that? I tried google, but I don't get anything, and prequel scripts are really hard to find.

[Peelee]

What film is that? I tried google, but I don't get anything, and prequel scripts are really hard to find.

Sorry, I should have been less subtle. That was a jab at them not putting this huge plot point (Palpatine's announcement of his return) in anything other than an obscure Fortnite event.

[Vinyadan]

That's even weirder than with the 2003 Clone Wars...

But was that Palpatine's or Snoke's voice? I mean, who was the actor -- Serkis or McDarmid?

Also, am I the only one who find that Snoke's name is inappropriate for a wannabe Dark Lord? It's even worse than Palpatine. Just call him Gorthomboron or something.

[hungrycrow]

As far as villains go, there was also captain phasma. I was convinced that she had inexplicably survived the Last Jedi and would be back for the finale. Of course, she doesn't really come off as much more competent than hux, and doesn't any have real story potential.

Honestly that's the biggest dropped ball of the sequels for me. Exploring the stormtroopers through Finn and Phasma could have been an intriguing and unique storyline, but nothing comes of it. Finn could have any other backstory and it would have changed almost nothing.

[Vinyadan]

I was expecting DJ.

[Fyraltari]

That's even weirder than with the 2003 Clone Wars...

But was that Palpatine's or Snoke's voice? I mean, who was the actor -- Serkis or McDarmid?

The fortnite message? McDarmid. Apparently, it was originally recorded for the movie but Abrams thought putting it in would hurt the pacing* so, logically, he put it in an unrelated video game.

*Hey look, I managed to type that with a straight face.

[Peelee]

*Hey look, I managed to type that with a straight face.

I applaud your strength there.

[Zevox]

As far as villains go, there was also captain phasma. I was convinced that she had inexplicably survived the Last Jedi and would be back for the finale. Of course, she doesn't really come off as much more competent than hux, and doesn't any have real story potential.

Honestly that's the biggest dropped ball of the sequels for me. Exploring the stormtroopers through Finn and Phasma could have been an intriguing and unique storyline, but nothing comes of it. Finn could have any other backstory and it would have changed almost nothing.

Yeah, Phasma was among the biggest wastes of potential in the sequels (along with Finn). Couldn't ever be the main villain, but as a secondary or tertiary one, could've been great. Good look with that chrome Stormtrooper armor, her position as a Stormtrooper Commander is a new one for the films to explore and should mean she has at least some level of competence, personal connection to the most interesting (theoretically, at least) of the heroes, and the potential for actually unique stories to be told about the two of them that don't rehash anything we've seen before.

And instead she barely got any screen time, lost easily in both films she was in, and is presumably dead after a short action scene in TLJ.

[The Glyphstone]

The cloth-of-gold Hugh Hefner bathrobe didn't do much to help Snoke be taken seriously either.

[Dire_Flumph]

The fortnite message? McDarmid. Apparently, it was originally recorded for the movie but Abrams thought putting it in would hurt the pacing* so, logically, he put it in an unrelated video game.

I feel that sequel Palpatine makes so much more sense if you make Seth MacFarlane's Palpatine from Robot Chicken canon.

"Ok, so my whole plan hinges on my lazy Grandaughter getting her butt in gear over here so I can force drain her or whatever, but I can't just send her an invite. Hmm...Alphonze, what are the kids into these days? I'll just casually leave a big return message there so she can put 2 and 2 together on her own. What do you think? Fortnite? What the hell is that?"

[Peelee]

As far as villains go, there was also captain phasma. I was convinced that she had inexplicably survived the Last Jedi and would be back for the finale.

Yeah, Phasma was among the biggest wastes of potential in the sequels (along with Finn). Couldn't ever be the main villain, but as a secondary or tertiary one, could've been great. Good look with that chrome Stormtrooper armor, her position as a Stormtrooper Commander is a new one for the films to explore and should mean she has at least some level of competence, personal connection to the most interesting (theoretically, at least) of the heroes, and the potential for actually unique stories to be told about the two of them that don't rehash anything we've seen before.

And instead she barely got any screen time, lost easily in both films she was in, and is presumably dead after a short action scene in TLJ.

Given that she inexplicably survived Starkiller Base, I was fully expecting her to inexplicably survive the Supremacy and come back to the third film to confront Finn and get dumped in some hole, only to inexplicably survive for the EU. Actually kind of sad that didn't happen, if only because the fizzle that happened was about the only possibility that could have been worse. Just make her Murdoc, ya know?

The cloth-of-gold Hugh Hefner bathrobe didn't do much to help Snoke be taken seriously either.

Yeah, I have no idea whether to pin that on the costume designer or Abrams, but either way it was a weird decision.

[Devonix]

I say that the gold robe fit perfectly with what he was going for with Snoke. Snoke wasn't a military leader, he was a cult leader like David Koresh or the Jonestown cult leader. He didn't know how his military was he didn't want competent people in charge he wanted sicophants and menials.

[Vinyadan]

Back to Palpa making Snoke's voice... was Snoke's voice ever in Ben's head? I'm just trying to wrap my head around that scene. Is Palpa simply giving Ben a taste of his skill as a ventriloquist?

[Devonix]

Back to Palpa making Snoke's voice... was Snoke's voice ever in Ben's head? I'm just trying to wrap my head around that scene. Is Palpa simply giving Ben a taste of his skill as a ventriloquist?

He's refering to Snoke corrupting and teaching Ben, in the same way that you have your parent's voice in your head.

[Iskar Jarak]

I feel that sequel Palpatine makes so much more sense if you make Seth MacFarlane's Palpatine from Robot Chicken canon.

"Ok, so my whole plan hinges on my lazy Grandaughter getting her butt in gear over here so I can force drain her or whatever, but I can't just send her an invite. Hmm...Alphonze, what are the kids into these days? I'll just casually leave a big return message there so she can put 2 and 2 together on her own. What do you think? Fortnite? What the hell is that?"

Times are dire when Robot Chicken makes more sense than the original material (and is probably written with more care).

Given that she inexplicably survived Starkiller Base, I was fully expecting her to inexplicably survive the Supremacy and come back to the third film to confront Finn and get dumped in some hole, only to inexplicably survive for the EU. Actually kind of sad that didn't happen, if only because the fizzle that happened was about the only possibility that could have been worse. Just make her Murdoc, ya know?

A third Phasma appearance and underwhelming death would have been great. I still hope that Phasma wanders her way into more Star Wars movies to do her thing. She's officially dead, but both Darth Maul and Palpatine have shrugged off their original deaths so there's a chance.
I was optimistic that Phasma would apparate at some point in RoS; her death was something that happened in TLJ and I was hoping for another spiteful anti-scene.

[Devonix]

The deleted scene had a death that seemed far more definitive, and also had the only case of a limb being cut off in the entire Sequel trilogy. I think they made him change it because they wanted an option to use her again in the third film. And changed it to a more ambiguous death.

[GloatingSwine]

The deleted scene had a death that seemed far more definitive, and also had the only case of a limb being cut off in the entire Sequel trilogy. I think they made him change it because they wanted an option to use her again in the third film. And changed it to a more ambiguous death.

Maul got chopped in half, which is pretty definitive, but it didn't stop him.

[dancrilis]

Maul got chopped in half, which is pretty definitive, but it didn't stop him.

Maul was also more interesting ... despite having almost no lines or characterization.

[The Glyphstone]

I guess he's the Boba Fett of the prequel trilogy, then?

[dancrilis]

I guess he's the Boba Fett of the prequel trilogy, then?

Effectively.

But also (just to take the respective movies that introduced them):
Darth Maul apprentice to Darth Sidious, wants revenge against the Jedi, killed Qui-Gon Jinn, defeated by Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Captain Phasma, gave into all demands when threatened, achieved nothing, discarded as a joke.

Some people will of course want to know more about the second character then the first and find them more compelling - but I suspect that those people are a distinct minority.

[Fyraltari]

I guess he's the Boba Fett of the prequel trilogy, then?

The Boba Fett of the sequel trilogy, meanwhile, is the ‘TRAITOR’ stormtrooper.

[Darth Credence]

The Boba Fett of the sequel trilogy, meanwhile, is the ‘TRAITOR’ stormtrooper.

And that person should have been Phasma. It would have been so much better if that had been Phasma in that fight - it could have shown her skills as she beat the crap out of Finn, and how good the armor is if she survived a hit from Chewie's bowcaster (that is how the traitor guy went down, right?). Change nothing at all about the movie except that, and Phasma becomes a character worth caring about.

[Dargaron]

And that person should have been Phasma. It would have been so much better if that had been Phasma in that fight - it could have shown her skills as she beat the crap out of Finn, and how good the armor is if she survived a hit from Chewie's bowcaster (that is how the traitor guy went down, right?). Change nothing at all about the movie except that, and Phasma becomes a character worth caring about.

I'm not sure I fully agree with that. It would've been better than what we got, but TR-8R is almost exactly what I'd want to see in sequel-era stormtroopers: there's a human element that's often lacking from OT stormtroopers (his exclamation conveys a very human feeling of betrayal), he's using specialized equipment to neutralize the hero's advantages (showing that regular storm troopers are trained in more than just blaster combat) and demonstrates that the Empire/First Order has less-than-lethal combat options, they just choose not to use them a lot of the time. In my opinion, regular storm troopers should have been made scary again, the same way they were introduced in the Tantive IV boarding in A New Hope.

Probably the first thing I would change about TFA is the opening assault on generic desert village #3 by having the stormtroopers open the engagement with flashbangs, riot shields and blasters set to stun to capture the entire defensive force for interrogation and "processing" (remember, they're fighting an insurgency: intel is more useful than corpses), and make Kylo Ren's establishing moment be him ordering the execution of the other prisoners for teh evulz - I mean, "for the Dark Side." That sets up the conflict between the ruthless yet practical military arm of the First Order (who would prefer to interrogate prisoners before killing them) and the Dark Side Mystic element, which places aesthetics and symbolic gestures over strict efficiency, but has access to undeniably powerful space!magic that keeps them useful.

Having Phasma as the "one competent storm trooper" in special armor undermines the regular storm troopers, who get further relegated to "joke" territory when you need to use the "special" ones to actually threaten the heroes (I had a similar problem with the Black storm troopers in Rogue One, although to a lesser extent because they weren't used until the very end).

[Peelee]

I guess he's the Boba Fett of the prequel trilogy, then?

Nah; Fett was able to immediately deduce where the Falcon had gone, collected the bounty on Solo, stood up to Vader successfully, and then collected a second bounty on Solo from another party, all in a single movie. Fett was incredibly successful and was presented as a great threat to the heroes in ESB, he just went out in a silly way in ROTJ.

The Boba Fett of the sequel trilogy, meanwhile, is the ‘TRAITOR’ stormtrooper.

How so? That trooper jumped onscreen and was defeated within a few minutes.

And that person should have been Phasma. It would have been so much better if that had been Phasma in that fight - it could have shown her skills as she beat the crap out of Finn, and how good the armor is if she survived a hit from Chewie's bowcaster (that is how the traitor guy went down, right?). Change nothing at all about the movie except that, and Phasma becomes a character worth caring about.

Seconded.

[Fyraltari]

How so? That trooper jumped onscreen and was defeated within a few minutes.

No personnality, a cool look that's unique but still trooper-ish, does a cool thing, dies stupidly and gets a devoted fanbase.

[Peelee]

No personnality, a cool look that's unique but still trooper-ish, does a cool thing, dies stupidly and gets a devoted fanbase.

Fett's personality is ruthless and efficient, both of which come off in ESB. TR8R's personality is... angry? Fett's costume is unique. TR8R's costume is the same stormtrooper armor as all other stormtroopers. Fett one-ups the Empire in general and Vader in particular, and is able to contest Vader better than the Empire's own top officers. TR8R has an electric stick thingie.

Dies stupidly and devoted fanbase I'll grant you.