Episode 9: Duel of the Fates Script

[Peelee]

How do they eat? Are they ninjas? Was Jango an apostate? Or is it just metaphor?

"Never take it off" is an embellishment, as the show itself shows; they can take off the helmets in private. Din does this in episode 4 to eat. I also view the "weapons are part of my religion" line in episode 2 as more or less the same; an embellishment and not literally true, but still functionally conveying the core message.

Jango and Boba were declared not Mandalorians by Mandalore, IIRC. Imposters who just wore Mandalorian armor.

ETA because I didn't see it:

My take about the helmet was less a literal issue with never being able to show his face, ever, although there is a degree of that, and more about placing the faceless warrior identity above his own personal one. He is a Mandalorian first, and Din Djarrin second, and they adopted this as a result of the imperial persecution. If you take your helmet off for somebody, or have it removed, then you are incapable of acting as a Mandalorian Warrior, either through lack of competence or lack of dedication.

Fully agree.

[Keltest]

"Never take it off" is an embellishment, as the show itself shows; they can take off the helmets in private. Din does this in episode 4 to eat. I also view the "weapons are part of my religion" line in episode 2 as more or less the same; an embellishment and not literally true, but still functionally conveying the core message.

Jango and Boba were declared not Mandalorians by Mandalore, IIRC. Imposters who just wore Mandalorian armor.

ETA because I didn't see it:

Fully agree.

Wookieepedia indicates he claims to have been born on Concord Dawn.

[Peelee]

Wookieepedia indicates he claims to have been born on Concord Dawn.

It also noted that he claims this, which indicates he may not have been. I don't have the Complete Visual Dictionary (and I'm reminded of Bill Waterson here), so I can't go into more detail on this, I'm afraid.

[Keltest]

It also noted that he claims this, which indicates he may not have been. I don't have the Complete Visual Dictionary (and I'm reminded of Bill Waterson here), so I can't go into more detail on this, I'm afraid.

Occam's razor would suggest he is telling the truth, if only because the mandalorians don't really need any more reason to disown him than being an assassin and bounty hunter not under their hierarchy.

[Peelee]

Occam's razor would suggest he is telling the truth, if only because the mandalorians don't really need any more reason to disown him than being an assassin and bounty hunter not under their hierarchy.

I'd agree, I just think it's odd that it notes "claim" by Concord Dawn.

Also, I'm reminded of the Simpsons.

Spoiler: Couldn't find a meme generator with all the images

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Mandalore: Mandalorians and Jedi are natural enemies. Just like Mandalorians and Sith. Or Mandalorians and the Republic. Or Mandalorians the the Empire. Or Mandalorians and other Mandalorians. Damn Mandalorians! They ruined Mandalore!

Any living being: You Mandalorians sure are a contentious people.

Mandalore: You just made an enemy for life.

[Keltest]

I'd agree, I just think it's odd that it notes "claim" by Concord Dawn.

Also, I'm reminded of the Simpsons.

Spoiler: Couldn't find a meme generator with all the images

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Mandalore: Mandalorians and Jedi are natural enemies. Just like Mandalorians and Sith. Or Mandalorians and the Republic. Or Mandalorians the the Empire. Or Mandalorians and other Mandalorians. Damn Mandalorians! They ruined Mandalore!

Any living being: You Mandalorians sure are a contentious people.

Mandalore: You just made an enemy for life.

Its probably just because of his bounty hunter mystique. They want to give him a mysterious past.

[Fyraltari]

Jango and Boba were declared not Mandalorians by Mandalore, IIRC. Imposters who just wore Mandalorian armor.

Wait, what? Why?
What an odd decision, the Mandalorian were created as being Bobba’s people, making him and his clone-daddy outcasts is weird. That’d Be like saying Chewbacca isn’t a true wookiee or something.

Mandalorians are a cultural race, effectively. In the EU/Legends, to be a Mandalorian, you just had to want to be a Mandalorian and live in the Mandalorian way. They were all warriors, regardless of whatever else they were. There were Mandalorian farmers, Mandalorian chefs, Mandalorian teachers, etc. But in a heartbeat, if needed, the Mandalorian farmer was also a Mandalorian warrior, the Mandalorian chef was also a Mandalorian warrior, the Mandalorian teacher was also a Mandalorian warrior. When Mandalore called, the people listened. Most were human, but there was no species requirement. It looks as if canon is sticking with that, but I can't say for certain yet - too small a sample size so far, and I'm assuming the same until they portray them differently.

You know, that brings an interesting point. The Mandalorians are characterized as the best non-magical fighters the galaxy has to offer, but when you think about it, to be the best at what you do you have to do it all the time (or at least make it you’re job).

That’s the reason for the existence of warrior classes in most premodern societies; if you want the people tasked with protecting you from the raiders from over the mountains you can’t ask them to herd goats in between attacks.

Farming takes a lot of time out of one’s day so a Mandalorian farmer would not be able to maintain his fighting skills at the peak of his potential. Take a look at Jango: he gave Obi-Wan a run for his money and killed a certified Jedi knight. That guy doesn’t moonlight as a waiter in one of Coruscant’s inexplicable 50´s dinners, that’s for sure.

But of course somebody has to feed the warriors, build their ships, maintain the buildings, enforce their laws, etc so the vast majority can’t afford to Ben full-time warriors.

As a result, it’s pretty much inevitable that only a minority of ‘true warrior’ Mandalorians actually live up to the hype, while the rest is only marginally better fighters than the rest of the Galaxy’s denizens (if at all). Which raises the question of how much respect they get.

Another, less likely, possibility is that the Mandalorian outsource their non-combat needs to non-Mandalorians either through mass slavery (which would probably cause their neighbors to gang up on them and eradicate them) or through trade, the logistic of which would be a total nightmare.

[Peelee]

Wait, what? Why?
What an odd decision, the Mandalorian were created as being Bobba’s people, making him and his clone-daddy outcasts is weird. That’d Be like saying Chewbacca isn’t a true wookiee or something.

That's an excellent question. It is indeed weird, especially since it's weird that they were decried by the Mandalorians for being petty mercenaries (that has always been looked down on in Mando society in Legends, but was still more or less acceptable, especially in times of need, and the rest of the galaxy prized Mando mercs and bounty hunters like crazy).

You know, that brings an interesting point. The Mandalorians are characterized as the best non-magical fighters the galaxy has to offer, but when you think about it, to be the best at what you do you have to do it all the time (or at least make it you’re job).

That’s the reason for the existence of warrior classes in most premodern societies; if you want the people tasked with protecting you from the raiders from over the mountains you can’t ask them to herd goats in between attacks.

Farming takes a lot of time out of one’s day so a Mandalorian farmer would not be able to maintain his fighting skills at the peak of his potential. Take a look at Jango: he gave Obi-Wan a run for his money and killed a certified Jedi knight. That guy doesn’t moonlight as a waiter in one of Coruscant’s inexplicable 50´s dinners, that’s for sure.

But of course somebody has to feed the warriors, build their ships, maintain the buildings, enforce their laws, etc so the vast majority can’t afford to Ben full-time warriors.

As a result, it’s pretty much inevitable that only a minority of ‘true warrior’ Mandalorians actually live up to the hype, while the rest is only marginally better fighters than the rest of the Galaxy’s denizens (if at all). Which raises the question of how much respect they get.

Another, less likely, possibility is that the Mandalorian outsource their non-combat needs to non-Mandalorians either through mass slavery (which would probably cause their neighbors to gang up on them and eradicate them) or through trade, the logistic of which would be a total nightmare.

Well, the dedicated mercenaries/bounty hunters/soldiers were the super skilled ones, but even the farmers, waiters, etc. had the Mandalorian mindset - determination, grit, daring-that-verges-on-crazy (like jumping out of a ship in low orbit riding a basilisk war droid down through enemy batteries and fighters, the armor their only protection against the cold vacuum of space, burning through the atmosphere filled with blaster bolts both friendly and enemy, for example). They could organize, follow orders, and even the laborers they didn't skimp on training. A stock Mandalorian farmer was, IIRC, roughly equal to an average professional soldier, while the Mando dedicated warriors were one-person batallions. But unless they were attacked or wanted to wage a large-scale war themselves (which was relatively rare, though massive when it happened), they more or less kept to themselves.

But, again, this is mostly Legends. Currently, Mandalorians are just kind of normal people who were largely dedicated pacifists and also have a strong warrior subculture, kind of? TCW didn't do the Mando culture any favors, is what I'm saying, and it certainly had the chance.

ETA: KOTOR and KOTOR 2 had the best explorations of Mandalorians, IMO, especially Canderous Ordo, and double especially his arc in KOTOR 1. And I wish it had largely kept to those ideas in the new canon.

[The Glyphstone]

If we accept the Holiday special as canon, regular Wwookkiiees wear clothes. Maybe Chewbacca is an outcast because he's a Wwookkiiee nudist?

[Peelee]

Wwookkiiees

Ah, I see you are proficient in Shyriiwook!

[Keltest]

That's an excellent question. It is indeed weird, especially since it's weird that they were decried by the Mandalorians for being petty mercenaries (that has always been looked down on in Mando society in Legends, but was still more or less acceptable, especially in times of need, and the rest of the galaxy prized Mando mercs and bounty hunters like crazy).


Well, the dedicated mercenaries/bounty hunters/soldiers were the super skilled ones, but even the farmers, waiters, etc. had the Mandalorian mindset - determination, grit, daring-that-verges-on-crazy (like jumping out of a ship in low orbit riding a basilisk war droid down through enemy batteries and fighters, the armor their only protection against the cold vacuum of space, burning through the atmosphere filled with blaster bolts both friendly and enemy, for example). They could organize, follow orders, and even the laborers they didn't skimp on training. A stock Mandalorian farmer was, IIRC, roughly equal to an average professional soldier, while the Mando dedicated warriors were one-person batallions. But unless they were attacked or wanted to wage a large-scale war themselves (which was relatively rare, though massive when it happened), they more or less kept to themselves.

But, again, this is mostly Legends. Currently, Mandalorians are just kind of normal people who were largely dedicated pacifists and also have a strong warrior subculture, kind of? TCW didn't do the Mando culture any favors, is what I'm saying, and it certainly had the chance.

ETA: KOTOR and KOTOR 2 had the best explorations of Mandalorians, IMO, especially Canderous Ordo, and double especially his arc in KOTOR 1. And I wish it had largely kept to those ideas in the new canon.

From my understanding, the pacifist movement was something that only started within a generation, as an attempt to reject the image of violent... well, space Vikings, basically.

Actually, space Vikings are a pretty good analogy for the general trajectory the Mandalorians' culture had taken.

[Fyraltari]

Pretty sure the plural of Wwookkiiee is Wwookkiieess.
Also Chewbacca isn’t naked he has that ammunition-belt thingie.

[Keltest]

Pretty sure the plural of Wwookkiiee is Wwookkiieess.
Also Chewbacca isn’t naked he has that ammunition-belt thingie.

Its called a bandolier. Or maybe baandoolieer in Shyriiwook.

[Sapphire Guard]

I wonder at the 'never take off your helmet' prohibition'. The nature of bounty hunting means that you may well need to spend long periods with no privacy when on a hunt.

It's fairly easy to be the best warriors in the galaxy when you all wear the best armour in the galaxy. The ability to get shot and not be hurt is a big advantage.

One thing I wonder about, Re both TROS and DOTF: With regard to the whole 'you're nothing, you're nobody' deal, Finn is a walking rebuttal to that whole mindset. Why doesn't he have a role in that part of the plot?

[Peelee]

I wonder at the 'never take off your helmet' prohibition'. The nature of bounty hunting means that you may well need to spend long periods with no privacy when on a hunt.

It's fairly easy to be the best warriors in the galaxy when you all wear the best armour in the galaxy. The ability to get shot and not be hurt is a big advantage.

One thing I wonder about, Re both TROS and DOTF: With regard to the whole 'you're nothing, you're nobody' deal, Finn is a walking rebuttal to that whole mindset. Why doesn't he have a role in that part of the plot?

Finn had so much potential that didn't really go anywhere. They did him dirty.

[Vinyadan]

Wait, what? Why?
What an odd decision, the Mandalorian were created as being Bobba’s people, making him and his clone-daddy outcasts is weird. That’d Be like saying Chewbacca isn’t a true wookiee or something.

Is it just in Darths & Droids that Chewbacca is an outcast from his people because of something Yoda did?

[Fyraltari]

I wonder at the 'never take off your helmet' prohibition'. The nature of bounty hunting means that you may well need to spend long periods with no privacy when on a hunt.

Then you eat on the crapper. Also I'm really not sure why you say that, bounty hunting seems to be a pretty lonely job on the galaxy far far away.

It's fairly easy to be the best warriors in the galaxy when you all wear the best armour in the galaxy. The ability to get shot and not be hurt is a big advantage.

The Mandalorian shows the titualr Mandalorian being a superior bounty hunter with no more than a helmet and a pauldron of mandalorian steel, and when he acquires a whole set of mandalorian armour he is the only member of his tribe to be so lucky and they still kick ass.

[Peelee]

The Mandalorian shows the titualr Mandalorian being a superior bounty hunter with no more than a helmet and a pauldron of mandalorian steel, and when he acquires a whole set of mandalorian armour he is the only member of his tribe to be so lucky and they still kick ass.

He is the only one with unpainted beskar. The final episode implied (to me, at least) that most of the Mandalorians in the covert had armor made of Mandalorian iron.

Spoiler: Season 1 Episode 8

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The armorer was collecting and re-smelting it all, is what I'm basing that on. Earlier on, nobody seems envious of the beskar so much as they gather because of the sheer amount he brought in at once; similarly, nobody had any issue with him having it except for it being Imperial.

[Yora]

Another, less likely, possibility is that the Mandalorian outsource their non-combat needs to non-Mandalorians either through mass slavery (which would probably cause their neighbors to gang up on them and eradicate them) or through trade, the logistic of which would be a total nightmare.

In a universe where everything mostly stays the same, the Mandalorians actually change a lot. They started as the remnants of the Taung empire that allowed other people to join their gangs.

The traditional Crusaders of the Old Republic consisted of individuals and small gangs spread out over huge areas with no real government or territory. But they would occadionally form a giant horde under the Mandalore and go to big wars. One of these served the Sith under Exar Kun, but the Sith lost and the Mandalorians got badly beaten.

Then Mandalore the Invincible got the idea of the Neo-Crusaders, who are a much more structured army that takes in everyone who wants to kill, with barely any attention paid to Mandalorian culture. They went on a big conquest and forced the people they conquered to provide them with more weapons and supplies. They basically went with the Spartan model of giving all the non-fighting work to essentially slaves.
Lots of old Crusaders thought that was stupid and against Mandalorian culture, and it didn't last long.

The Mandalorians of the Clone Wars are something very different entirely.

[Sapphire Guard]

Haven't seen Mando, but

Spoiler: Mandalorian?

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doesn't he go on several multi day collaborative missions with dubiously trustworthy people?

[Fyraltari]

Haven't seen Mando, but

Spoiler: Mandalorian?

Show

doesn't he go on several multi day collaborative missions with dubiously trustworthy people?

After a fashion, yes. What’s your point?

[Sapphire Guard]

That's a lot of opportunities for a mishap on being walked in on with your helmet off meaning that you can't put it on again.

[dancrilis]

That's a lot of opportunities for a mishap on being walked in on with your helmet off meaning that you can't put it on again.

Other then eating (and there are ways around that - including not eating for a while) what other opportunities are there?

[Sapphire Guard]

You have to eat and drink a lot when active, especially when, for instance, wandering through the desert. Having to wander off alone every time you do has potential to be very dangerous. But not having seen the show, I can't really die on this hill.

[Keltest]

You have to eat and drink a lot when active, especially when, for instance, wandering through the desert. Having to wander off alone every time you do has potential to be very dangerous. But not having seen the show, I can't really die on this hill.

He generally makes a point of working alone for jobs longer than a day or two. And he lives in his ship. It's generally not brought up outside of taverns and the like.

[Peelee]

You have to eat and drink a lot when active, especially when, for instance, wandering through the desert. Having to wander off alone every time you do has potential to be very dangerous. But not having seen the show, I can't really die on this hill.

I don't know if you're aware, but there actually is a whole episode in a desert.

On a slightly related note, I wholly recommend watching it if you can.

[InvisibleBison]

On a slightly related note, I wholly recommend watching it if you can.

And I recommend you don't watch it. I found the plot to be boring and the title character utterly unsympathetic.

[Sapphire Guard]

I know most of the story, I just don't like nearly everything I've heard about it. Probably will cave eventually.

[Keltest]

The story is really besides the point. Its a Star Wars western, the story exists entirely to facilitate the titular gunslinger to travel around and gunsling. The actual story is, IMO, elegant in its simplicity so far, not needing to involve big dramatic galaxy shaking events revolving entirely around the life of one dude and his adopted kid, and the best thing it does is not distract from The Mandalorian being himself.

[Peelee]

And I recommend you don't (watch it. I found the plot to be boring and the title character utterly unsympathetic.

Eh, to each their own. I don't need a sympathetic lead (my fave Nic Cage film is Lord of War, for example), and it really captured the feel of the Star Wars universe, for the most part.