Hexblade Level 5 Spell Slot Help

[kbob]

So I have a straight Hexblade. I’m running him as a melee build though I know focusing on EB and MC to sorcerer is “optimal”. He wants to eventually rule over his patron and someday have an army of Hexblades and demons to take over the world because... evil. (I get it’s shallow and he “needs” a why and something deeper and probably someone could have hurt him and instead of rising above he chose a dark path and the line that distinguishes between the hero and villain is thin and blah blah blah... I just want to have fun being a 2 dimensional evil jerk). Anyway, as stated his role in the party is melee also I’m typically the face. In addition, I’m support at times too when needed. (In game it’s rationalized as he needs to keep them safe now cuz he needs them to accomplish his diabolical plans someday... out of game I like my friends and I want them to have fun too).
My problem is this. I’m level 9 and I have 2 level 5 spells to take. Im gaining one spell and I sacked an earlier one cuz I have scrolls to replace it and don’t use as much anymore. I’m pretty sure I’m going to take synaptic static, though I could be talked out of it. The other one I’m looking at is either dream or banishing smite. They both look VERY good for very different reasons. What say y’all?

[kbob]

What seems more useful? Dream or banishing smite?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Hold Monster is pretty good for control, but Banishing Smite is also pretty superb.

I'd let someone else pick up Sending to cover what you would be doing with Dream.

[kbob]

Ya that makes sense. thanks!

[Chaos Jackal]

Stick with synaptic static.

As for the second, if you want a 5th-level spell specifically (rather than another 3rd or 4th), and if you wanna choose between banishing smite and dream... well, the smite spells aren't good on hexblades in my opinion (you have much better things to do with your concentration and much stronger effects available), and if you want the banishing effect just take banishment, it's better. So, if you think dream will come up, go with that. If you can use it, it's fun and effective.

If you find dream unlikely to be used, other decent options from 5th-level include danse macabre (check party disposition towards undead), hold monster (some like it, don't pick it in a zombie apocalypse) and scrying (check DM disposition towards divinations). Hexblades also have access to cone of cold, but I find it redundant with synaptic static and much prefer the latter.

In short, dream if you're only picking between the two, danse macabre if you don't and you have the bodies. Personally though, I find warlock 3rd- and 4th-level spells a lot more useful; I'd suggest picking something extra from these spells rather than one of the usually way more situational 5th-levels.

[Keravath]

The single best spell for a level 9 melee hexblade is likely the 4th level Shadow of Moil. Cast it and you can have advantage on every attack.

You don't mention anything else about your character.

A melee hexblade will outdamage an EB one if you have Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master feats. However, a melee hexblade also needs resilient con and/or war caster since with such a limited number of spell slots it is important for the warlock to maintain concentration on spells when cast.

Banishing smite is a 5d10 single target damage with a Banish rider effect if they have 50 or less hit points. I think this might be pretty situational. You have to have some idea of the hit points of your target and it isn't necessarily that useful against a major villain since their hit points have to be significantly reduced before the banish effect kicks in and you rarely know exactly how many hit points a target has left. In addition, it just moves the target out of the battle for the concentration period (if it is from the plane you are on), so it is most useful against a few powerful opponents where you can take one wounded one out of the combat for a while.

For comparison, I have a level 11 ... 10 hexblade/1 shadow sorcerer melee warlock whose warlock spells are:
Synaptic Static
Shadow of Moil
Dimension Door
Hypnotic Pattern
Fly
Counterspell
Misty Step
Invisibility
Darkness
Hex

(I added the sorcerer level because I found a ring of spell storing and couldn't use it properly without 1st level spell slots. Any spell I put in the ring would be level 5 and would fill it up ...)

[RSP]

I’m not a fan of Banishing Smite, however, I do think Dream is fantastic; depending on your DM/campaign.

Dream can let you do a lot. If the campaign requires large distances and information gathering, you can talk to non-elves anywhere in the world. More towards an evil combat chsracter’s goal, if you know of the BBEG, you can ruin his rest and, a) kill him if using rules where Exhaustion is the result of not getting sleep, b) limit any casting resources if a LR recharge caster, c) limit any HP recovery if LR is how the only way they can recover HPs, d) eat through Legendary Saves.

I like it on Warlocks as you can essentially cast it throughout a night, multiple times, RAW, and target the same creature until it succeeds.

That said, DMs may not like you destroying their BBEGs while taking LRs, and if so, this spell just allows long distance comms.

Synaptic Static is great. I also like Scrying; it’s similar to Dream in that it gives great info gather on a Warlock who can cast it then SR to get the slot back.

Far Step is fun if you ever find maneuverability an issue (though you could also just take Fly and get a few friends in the air as well).

[WaroftheCrans]

(I added the sorcerer level because I found a ring of spell storing and couldn't use it properly without 1st level spell slots. Any spell I put in the ring would be level 5 and would fill it up ...)

Just about this last part, I love ring of spell storing for warlocks I play. None of the campaigns I'm in do a full adventuring day, so as a short rest based class I'm at a disadvantage most of the time. That being said, if a spell gains no benefit from being upcast, I'm relatively sure it only takes up that one slot. I filled up my last ring of spell storing with shield x3, and blur, neither of which can be upcast.

[RSP]

Just about this last part, I love ring of spell storing for warlocks I play. None of the campaigns I'm in do a full adventuring day, so as a short rest based class I'm at a disadvantage most of the time. That being said, if a spell gains no benefit from being upcast, I'm relatively sure it only takes up that one slot. I filled up my last ring of spell storing with shield x3, and blur, neither of which can be upcast.

Any spell can be upcast, and, RAW, a Warlock must cast anything at their highest level slot of Pact Magic (so up to level 5 slots). So a 9th level Warlock casting Shield still casts it as a 5th level spell, and it would take up all levels of a Ring of Spell Storing (unfortunately).

On the plus side, if anyone tries to Counterspell that Shield casting, they either need to pass the ability check, or use a 5th level slot on Counterspell.

[kbob]

Dance Macabre seems interesting to me but I'm not sure if it is too situational. Hold Monster is good. Someone mentioned that I didn't share more about my character. He is currently a VHum, Blade Pact HB 9 with 20 Cha and has the following spells, scrolls, and invocations:

Spells (@X indicates scroll and how many... purchase 1-2 level in large towns):
1. Amor of Agath (no concentration), Hex, Identify@3
2. Mirror Image@10 (no conc), Darkness@5, Misty Step@3
3. Fly, hypnotic pattern, blink (no conc)
4. Banishment, sickening radiance (can mark invisible), shadow of moil (adv on attack, disadvantaged to be hit)
5. Synaptic static, ?

Invocations:
Tricksters escape (Freedm of mvt w/o using spell slot), Agoniz blast, Thirst Blade, Devil Sight, Cloak of flies (damage and helps with intimidation)

Main Items:
+2 Glaive, +2 Rod of Pact Keeper

Feats:
Polearm Mstr, Resil (Con, obtained this as a wish from helping an evil demigod), Alert
->Looking next at sentinel (house-ruled Sent. to only drop to 0 mvt if OA is from means in PHB or from Sent. itself to stop the shut down it brings from polearm mstr) then GWM

That is basically what he has. His name is Hexavier :)

Thanks to everyone for looking this over and helping!

[Jerrykhor]

If your party is short on AOE, may i suggest Cone of Cold? Also, Dimension Door is a must for me, love the spell.

[kbob]

Dimension door has been tempting and I may end up with it. I’ve never played a caster that could get it and not take it. What kept me from getting it is misty step. It’s a lot more limited but it’s a bonus action (which is pretty big) and 30’ can get me out of most bad situations. But moving 500’ as apposed to 30’ and the ability to take another person is pretty big too.
Cone of cold was my original choice but I went with synaptic static due to it being psychic damage and the additional debuffs.

[RSP]

Dimension door has been tempting and I may end up with it. I’ve never played a caster that could get it and not take it. What kept me from getting it is misty step. It’s a lot more limited but it’s a bonus action (which is pretty big) and 30’ can get me out of most bad situations. But moving 500’ as apposed to 30’ and the ability to take another person is pretty big too.
Cone of cold was my original choice but I went with synaptic static due to it being psychic damage and the additional debuffs.

Far Step might be worth taking in lieu of Misty Step. Either way, it’s a 5th level slot and you get more out of Far Step, though it is Concentration. Fun spell though.

[kbob]

Oooh. How did I miss this spell? I see potential with it. Thanks!

[Bobthewizard]

I like hold person as a warlock spell a this level. I don't like it as a second level spell, and I wouldn't use a 5th level slot on it for a wizard or sorcerer, but since a Warlock has to cast their spells at level 5, it's a good complement to hypnotic pattern. Use hypnotic pattern if the enemy is grouped appropriately. Hold person can get 4 targets even if they are mixed up in melee. If neither of those work, then banishment can get 2 creatures out of the fight. It gives you one more control option depending on the situation.

[Desamir]

I think Dimension Door is superior to both Misty Step and Far Step on a warlock. Misty Step is a bonus action, sure, but because you only have two slots, it's really going to reserved for emergencies only. If you're going to take an emergency-only teleport you might as well take one that has 10 times the range and doesn't require sight.

Far Step has one major problem--it requires concentration, and it's worse than nearly every other concentration option at this level. In any situation where you need to avoid opportunity attacks, Shadows of Moil accomplishes the same thing while also being a huge offensive and defensive buff. In a situation where you need sustained mobility, Fly is as good or better and much more versatile.

[RSP]

Far Step has one major problem--it requires concentration, and it's worse than nearly every other concentration option at this level. In any situation where you need to avoid opportunity attacks, Shadows of Moil accomplishes the same thing while also being a huge offensive and defensive buff. In a situation where you need sustained mobility, Fly is as good or better and much more versatile.

Depends on playstyle and particular battle set ups. Bladelocks can greatly benefit from Far Step as it essentially gives 90’ of movement per turn (at the cost of a Bonus Action and Conc). This can essentially get you into combat, and/or out of combat/behind cover as needed.

Fly is also a great option but the extra movement and ability to teleport of FS works together nicely with a melee combatant.

Yes, you could cast SoM, but that takes an Action, and doesn’t provide any additional movement. FS allows you to attack, then disappear with no retribution. SoM’s okay, but better against casters or monsters with sight-required detrimental effects.

You could cast Fly (a great option if 2 friends are within touch-distance), but thats also an Action, still allows OAs, and risks falling if lose Conc. It doesn’t quite have the distance as FS, nor niche ability to move into a spot you can see but otherwise can’t fit into.

Also, depending on DM, FS could well let you teleport somewhere out of sight so the enemy doesn’t know where you went. If out in the woods, for instance, you can attack, then disappear/reappear behind a big tree 60’ away without the enemy knowing where you went. With Fly or SoM, they still you/a big black smog cloud.

I wouldn’t argue with any of the three being on a Warlock’s spell list.

[Desamir]

Depends on playstyle and particular battle set ups. Bladelocks can greatly benefit from Far Step as it essentially gives 90’ of movement per turn (at the cost of a Bonus Action and Conc). This can essentially get you into combat, and/or out of combat/behind cover as needed.

Fly is also a great option but the extra movement and ability to teleport of FS works together nicely with a melee combatant.

Yes, you could cast SoM, but that takes an Action, and doesn’t provide any additional movement. FS allows you to attack, then disappear with no retribution. SoM’s okay, but better against casters or monsters with sight-required detrimental effects.

You could cast Fly (a great option if 2 friends are within touch-distance), but thats also an Action, still allows OAs, and risks falling if lose Conc. It doesn’t quite have the distance as FS, nor niche ability to move into a spot you can see but otherwise can’t fit into.

Also, depending on DM, FS could well let you teleport somewhere out of sight so the enemy doesn’t know where you went. If out in the woods, for instance, you can attack, then disappear/reappear behind a big tree 60’ away without the enemy knowing where you went. With Fly or SoM, they still you/a big black smog cloud.

I wouldn’t argue with any of the three being on a Warlock’s spell list.

If you teleport 60 feet away, you'll have to teleport back to get into melee range the next turn, which means you'll only be able to disappear every other turn, and you have no defensive boost to protect your concentration while you're in melee.

If you run 30 feet into melee and teleport 30 feet away every turn, then the target can chase you, and what you're doing isn't much better than doing 15-foot hit-and-runs with SoM. SoM takes an action, but it also provides a major DPR and defensive boost for the duration.

[RSP]

If you teleport 60 feet away, you'll have to teleport back to get into melee range the next turn, which means you'll only be able to disappear every other turn, and you have no defensive boost to protect your concentration while you're in melee.

If you run 30 feet into melee and teleport 30 feet away every turn, then the target can chase you, and what you're doing isn't much better than doing 15-foot hit-and-runs with SoM. SoM takes an action, but it also provides a major DPR and defensive boost for the duration.

Target possibly can chase you, assuming they know where you went and can get to you. Also, if you teleport in and Attack, next round attack and then teleport, repeating every two rounds, the spell gives you all your attacks, while the enemy only gets half of theirs. A fifth level spot in exchange for an enemy only getting to attack every other turn, might be a win, depending on that enemy.

There could be difficult terrain between the target and where you went or some other obstruction like a pit. There could be other PCs with OAs (like the group’s tanky barbarian), who can soften them up while it angrily pursues you (or doesn’t, in which case you’ve gotten you attack in while still keeping threats on the tank).

It could also be that your first turn you run in 30’, Attack, then teleport out 60’. The enemy double moves to get to you. Now it’s your turn, you attack, then teleport again.

SoM allows the movement w/o OAs, but again, at the cost of an Action, and you can’t move far enough to not give the enemy it’s full attack (assuming equal movement speeds).

Or it could be the “battlefield” isn’t a 30’x30’ empty room and all the present terrain makes a 60’ teleport as a BA for 10 rounds, a worthwhile investment. For instance, maybe enemies are spread out and have cover as they ambush your group, and moving 90’ to engage one of the eight attackers (while also getting out of the kill zone/behind their cover), is better than giving 8 attackers Disadvantage on two attacks each, while you spend this and the entire next turn moving the 90’ to one of the attackers.

[Desamir]

Target possibly can chase you, assuming they know where you went and can get to you.

If you're running in to attack every turn, then the target can almost certainly do the same to you after you teleport away. You don't have the opportunity to take the Hide action, so most DMs are likely going to say that the monster knows where you went if you teleported 30 feet.

Also, if you teleport in and Attack, next round attack and then teleport, repeating every two rounds, the spell gives you all your attacks, while the enemy only gets half of theirs. A fifth level spot in exchange for an enemy only getting to attack every other turn, might be a win, depending on that enemy.

There could be difficult terrain between the target and where you went or some other obstruction like a pit. There could be other PCs with OAs (like the group’s tanky barbarian), who can soften them up while it angrily pursues you (or doesn’t, in which case you’ve gotten you attack in while still keeping threats on the tank).

If the enemy is far enough away or obstructed such that it can't attack PCs, why would I teleport into its face and give it the chance to attack me at all?

If the enemy is close enough to other PCs to attack them, then this is just cunning action disengage with a huge opportunity cost. You're spending one of your two fifth level slots, and your concentration, for what is effectively a bonus action disengage and a lot of movement speed. It's hard to imagine a situation where I'd want to make that trade. For that slot, I could cast SoM and run around power attacking with a greatsword, or cast synaptic static/hypnotic pattern/hold person/hold monster, or summon a Vrock, or smite, or something else that has an impact on the board, rather than a spell that gives me no additional damage or control, and maybe lets me avoid some attacks that are probably going to be directed at another party member instead.

SoM allows the movement w/o OAs, but again, at the cost of an Action, and you can’t move far enough to not give the enemy it’s full attack (assuming equal movement speeds).

It also gives you a huge DPR and defensive boost. I'm sure if you ran the numbers you'd find that you'd gain more damage power attacking with advantage for one minute than you'd lose from having to spend an action casting the spell. Attacks that miss you because of 2d20kl1 are also wasted.

Or it could be the “battlefield” isn’t a 30’x30’ empty room and all the present terrain makes a 60’ teleport as a BA for 10 rounds, a worthwhile investment. For instance, maybe enemies are spread out and have cover as they ambush your group, and moving 90’ to engage one of the eight attackers (while also getting out of the kill zone/behind their cover), is better than giving 8 attackers Disadvantage on two attacks each, while you spend this and the entire next turn moving the 90’ to one of the attackers.

Hypotheticals are tricky, but in this situation, teleporting solo behind enemy cover seems exceedingly dangerous. And in most situations where you absolutely need to teleport 60 feet every turn, a 60 foot flying speed will cover you and leave your bonus actions open for the rest of combat.

Don't get me wrong, it's a fun and thematic spell, and I wouldn't begrudge folks taking it to Nightcrawler around in combat. It's not like using it is going to cause a TPK. I just don't think it's that efficient a use of a warlock slot consider how few you get.