What spells do you consider useless?

[Corran]

I didn't see anyone mention immolation, so I am assuming that there was an errata that removed it from 5e until further notice.

Edit: The spell could be more interesting if you could use it to target flammable objects, or if your DM (unwisely) rules that a lit creature can ignite flammable objects if there is contact.

[Deathtongue]

Find Traps really is that useless.

1) It's line of sight. You know what places tend to have lots of traps in them? Multi-level complexes with lots of corridors and closed doors. Indeed, if a trap is placed behind a door or just around the corner, you have to put yourself in danger just to use the spell. If it was 120 ft. that went through barriers or at least wasn't Instantaneous duration, we might have something.

2) Find Traps doesn't give you any real new information except in situations where you need to NOPE the hell out of it anyway. It can detect traps that have an arbitrarily high DC, but that's it. Forgetting caveat 1 (which would already kill the usefulness of the spell): it doesn't tell you where the traps are, it doesn't tell you how to bypass them, and it doesn't do anything about natural hazards, so you still need to bust out the Perception/Investigation checks. And you know what, if you find yourself in a situation where Find Traps actually makes a difference over an above-average case perception check i.e. a rogue with Reliable Talent, Perception and Investigation expertise, and some Guidance action isn't enough you're already in the soup.

There's some other nonsense with the spell as well, such as costing a 2nd-level slot, but those two aspects make the spell completely useless.

[Deathtongue]

While there are definitely worse spells out there, a useless spell that I've actually seen players willingly cast is Ice Storm. I think the only reason why you'd prepare this spell is if you regularly fight bunched-up monsters in feature-free plains where combat stats 200+ ft. away. A situation I didn't even see in Storm King's Thunder, because 300 ft is literally too much to depict on most battlemats that use standard-sized squares.

I didn't see anyone mention immolation, so I am assuming that there was an errata that removed it from 5e until further notice.

Can you believe that this spell used to be WORSE before the Xanathar's update?

[Corran]

Can you believe that this spell used to be WORSE before the Xanathar's update?

It used to target CON, right? Heh, what a simple and elegant fix...

Edit: To be fair, it could be a lot more useful at the hands of the characters' enemies, particularly during a difficult encounter. At the very least it stops yo-yo healing which will increase the (probably already high) chance of a TPK (or at least of more pc's dying). And then there's the turning to ash bit. Definitely more useful as a monster ability than a spell for a pc.

[diplomancer]

While there are definitely worse spells out there, a useless spell that I've actually seen players willingly cast is Ice Storm. I think the only reason why you'd prepare this spell is if you regularly fight bunched-up monsters in feature-free plains where combat stats 200+ ft. away. A situation I didn't even see in Storm King's Thunder, because 300 ft is literally too much to depict on most battlemats that use standard-sized squares.

Can you believe that this spell used to be WORSE before the Xanathar's update?

I've had at least one good use for it, when my 13th level party (Ancients Paladin, Life Cleric, Bladesinger) had to deal with a tavern full of not-yet polymorphed wereboars. After 1 minute of rising tensions talk between the Paladin and the wereboars, an almost simultaneous Delayed Blast Fireball, Ice Storm, and Flamestrike killed all of the wereboars before they could react. My Paladin suffered a few light scratches from all the spells.

As to the Instant Summons spells, yes, it's very situational, but that's alright for a Wizard Ritual. On that same campaign, my Paladin had a powerful magic weapon that was magically connected (and therefore unescapably tracked) by one of the BBEG. We used the spell on it, and went after the BBEG leaving the weapon behind, he was very surprised when we popped up for a "chat", as he knew the weapon was so good I very likely wouldn't leave it behind.

[Chronos]

Leomund's Secret Chest really doesn't have a risk of losing your items. You only start rolling for random disappearance after 60 days, and you can reset that timer by recasting the spell. If you're going two months straight without any chance to cast a non-combat spell, then you're already screwed. The only other way the spell would be lost is if someone destroys or dispels the miniature, but again, if that's happening, you're already screwed.

diplomancer, sure, Ice Storm can be used. It does damage in an area of effect; that's useful. But there are a lot of spells that do that. Was it really any better, in that situation, than a second Fireball or Flame Strike? Was there anything about it that specifically made Ice Storm the spell you wanted?

[KorvinStarmast]

Item saving throws and equipment loss were things that happened if you made enough mistakes or had bad enough luck. So carrying literally all your magic items and spell books in a bag of holding wasn't a good idea.

That's a fair assessment. The question is, in re 5e, at which tables does a Wizard need to make sure he has a back up spell book stashed somewhere? That's a table where D.I.S. is a good selection.

[diplomancer]

Leomund's Secret Chest really doesn't have a risk of losing your items. You only start rolling for random disappearance after 60 days, and you can reset that timer by recasting the spell. If you're going two months straight without any chance to cast a non-combat spell, then you're already screwed. The only other way the spell would be lost is if someone destroys or dispels the miniature, but again, if that's happening, you're already screwed.

diplomancer, sure, Ice Storm can be used. It does damage in an area of effect; that's useful. But there are a lot of spells that do that. Was it really any better, in that situation, than a second Fireball or Flame Strike? Was there anything about it that specifically made Ice Storm the spell you wanted?

Well, it was the one the Paladin could cast but ,yes, other AoE would work just as well. I don't recall exactly whether the Wizard jumped in with another AoE, but I think it wasn't needed.

[ImproperJustice]

While there are definitely worse spells out there, a useless spell that I've actually seen players willingly cast is Ice Storm. I think the only reason why you'd prepare this spell is if you regularly fight bunched-up monsters in feature-free plains where combat stats 200+ ft. away. A situation I didn't even see in Storm King's Thunder, because 300 ft is literally too much to depict on most battlemats that use standard-sized squares.

Can you believe that this spell used to be WORSE before the Xanathar's update?

I have found a few instances where immolation has worker to my advantage.

1. As a sorceror, using subtle spell to make a foe burst into flames with no warning or indication of my presence. Same can be said for fireball but this is single target only.

2. It’s verbal and single target only. So it has been a go too in a grapple situation. I will be unharmed, and can cast freely as they burn.

3. Against heavy plate strength fighters with garbage dex saves it is largely a death sentence.
The rider ensures they won’t get back up.

4. Works good in hostage situations. Bonus points if you say Dracaris when igniting someone.

5. If an opponent is grappled, bound, or tangled. They are well done. They won’t make their save and their restraints won’t be harmed.

[MrCharlie]

In order for a spell to be useless, it needs to do one of two things.

A. Do something so weak for its spell level that anything else is better.

B. Do something so situational that more than 90% of the time you wasted a slot.

As a bonus, if it manages to actively hurt the caster, that's even better. This isn't to say that summon greater demon is bad-because holy **** is it dangerous-because it's so strong that it compensates. It needs to be both useless and harmful to be truly awful. Other spells like life-transference get a pass for doing something unique for their class, even if they do it badly.

There are a lot of spells which do A. The elemental evil spells are about 50-50 awful and great, with earth tremor and other duds mixed with absorb elements and other amazing spells, so that's a good place to start to find underpowered spells. Immolation is an example already mentioned, and is just not good for its level. The king of this is Witch Bolt, which does cantrip damage every turn and fails if the enemy walks away slowly, followed shortly by true strike, which doesen't have enough attack roll spells at higher levels to be worth wasting a turn on.

In general, spells which simply don't have the damage or effect to stand up to scrutiny fall here, but it's hard to be sure-Blindness was mentioned earlier, but blindness is actually a fine spell because it isn't concentration. And at worst, the always do something, even if it's weak, and hence you've contributed however pathetically to the parties goals-which is why immolation and witch bolt don't "win" these competitions.

The spells which do B are more difficult to parse, but there are some standouts. Find Traps is the immediate winner. 95% of the time, you've done nothing. 4% of the time, you've learned that there are traps and nothing more, meaning that you have the less information than a perception or investigation check would give you. 1% of the time it actually tells you something useful in any way.

However, in my opinion there are two spells which stand out from their peers for being both uselessly weak and utterly situational while also harming their casters.

First, we have enthrall, which does one thing badly. It makes it so that you captivate an enemies attention, slightly-perception checks are at disadvantage to see other people. Given that the enemy gets a wisdom save as well, this is really, really bad-and you've accomplished something that is typically bad, namely you've focused attention on a caster.

The second is the king of useless spells-Find the Path. Yes, you can come up with situations where its useful, but the specific circumstances needed to even cast the spell constrain that. You need to both know where you are going, it needs to be stationary, you need an object from that destination, and you need to be familiar with the destination. Hence, you either need to be lost, or going somewhere you've seen but don't know the location of, something only likely with other divination magic, and you need something from that location for the spell to work even then! Given that you are almost at a level where you can just teleport to places you have scried on or back home if you are lost, the spell is almost always a poor choice.

But here is the kicker for Find the Path-the path does not need to be in any way safe or actually traversable. RAW, find the path should happily tell you that the fastest way across a broken bridge is to jump into the ravine and climb your way back out, rather than go around it; it's physically the shortest distance. Add that it can actively lead you into danger, and it may be the worst spell ever printed. Now people can quibble over if the path is implied to be traversable and hence it wouldn't actually tell you to climb over a solid edifice, but the point about leading you into danger is explicit in the text.

Oh, and it also costs 100 gold to cast (paid once), which given that your never going to cast it twice means that you've wasted a bunch of gold, depending on how much you get when you sell the components back.

[Sigreid]

I don't think any spell is completely useless. There are lots of spells, however (like jump) that are niche enough the odds of you having spent a prepartation slot on them when they would do you some good is slim to none.

I don't know about the rest of you, but most days my casters prepare spells that are most generally useful for a wide variety of applications and have lots of spells that only get prepared if I know with a high degree of likelihood that the situation to use them will come up.

[Corran]

First, we have enthrall, which does one thing badly. It makes it so that you captivate an enemies attention, slightly-perception checks are at disadvantage to see other people. Given that the enemy gets a wisdom save as well, this is really, really bad-and you've accomplished something that is typically bad, namely you've focused attention on a caster.

I don't get the hate for enthrall. It's the spell you are using to distract someone in order for one of your allies to steal something from them. Classic application is when the bard is performing and the rogue picks the pockets of the crowd watching the bard's performance. Sure, you don't really need a spell to do that, but the spell is there to potentially give disadvantage to the victims' perception. Much like enhance ability would be used to give advantage to the rogue's checks. Yes, it's a far more situational and far less versatile spell than enhance ability (not to mention that it relies on the enemies' failing saves while EA does not), but it clearly has its purpose. Sometimes you want be able to roll checks to distract targets, other times you might want every edge you can give yourself to prevent failure. Or you might want to delay someone for … okay, the duration is not great.

It's not a great spell, not at all. But I appreciate spells that facilitate approaches other than the usual smash and loot.

[Deathtongue]

I don't get the hate for enthrall. It's the spell you are using to distract someone in order for one of your allies to steal something from them. Classic application is when the bard is performing and the rogue picks the pockets of the crowd watching the bard's performance. Sure, you don't really need a spell to do that, but the spell is there to potentially give disadvantage to the victims' perception.

The thing is, Enthrall has a roleplaying penalty that's not included in the spell. The obvious reason why you'd use this spell is to distract your targets so you can get away with swiping documents/picking pockets/sneaking through the gate, but the mere fact that you're casting a spell is going to arouse suspicion and risk blowing your cover. Anyone who has ever watched someone get put under arrest because they cast Guidance when randomly stopped by a suspicious patrol knows what I'm talking about.

[Tanarii]

Leomund's Secret Chest really doesn't have a risk of losing your items. You only start rolling for random disappearance after 60 days, and you can reset that timer by recasting the spell. If you're going two months straight without any chance to cast a non-combat spell, then you're already screwed. The only other way the spell would be lost is if someone destroys or dispels the miniature, but again, if that's happening, you're already screwed.

Use Drawguys Instant Summons on the Loedude's Chest miniature, and leave it at home?

What happens if you cast dispel on the sapphire?

[MaxWilson]

Leomund's Secret Chest really doesn't have a risk of losing your items. You only start rolling for random disappearance after 60 days, and you can reset that timer by recasting the spell. If you're going two months straight without any chance to cast a non-combat spell, then you're already screwed. The only other way the spell would be lost is if someone destroys or dispels the miniature, but again, if that's happening, you're already screwed.

This part is why it's worse than Drawmij's Instant Summons for your valuables. If something destroys your Drawmij sapphire, nothing bad happens to your valuables. They're not permanently destroyed or anything, they're just no longer summonable unless you have another sapphire linked to the same item.

[HPisBS]

This part is why it's worse than Drawmij's Instant Summons for your valuables. If something destroys your Drawmij sapphire, nothing bad happens to your valuables. They're not permanently destroyed or anything, they're just no longer summonable unless you have another sapphire linked to the same item.

So maybe we should house rule that it reappears in / next to the miniature's space if the mini gets destroyed.

- Or maybe that upcasting adds this effect.

[Deathtongue]

This part is why it's worse than Drawmij's Instant Summons for your valuables.

The plural use of that word is interesting. Assuming you can use Instant Summons on a bag or a backpack (which I think would be reasonable) you need to prepare an extra sapphire for each 10 pounds of gear. Backup spellbooks are 3 lb., a wand is another pound, a full waterskin 5 pounds -- it can really start to add up depending on how seriously you're taking the idea of having emergency backup gear.

But Secret Chest has much greater availability than Instant Summons anyway, so it's hard to call Drawmij's Instant Summons better even if you only want to use it for one or two things. If I want to be able to, say, access my backup spellbook as a mid-level wizard when I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere, having to wait four extra levels is a dealbreaker.

[Corran]

@Deathtongue:

Spoiler: off topic

Show

The thing is, Enthrall has a roleplaying penalty that's not included in the spell. The obvious reason why you'd use this spell is to distract your targets so you can get away with swiping documents/picking pockets/sneaking through the gate, but the mere fact that you're casting a spell is going to arouse suspicion and risk blowing your cover. Anyone who has ever watched someone get put under arrest because they cast Guidance when randomly stopped by a suspicious patrol knows what I'm talking about.

Sure, but that's not the default assumption. It's certainly not my assumption when I am running or joining a game. I agree that casting components should be accounted for, so the act of casting a spell has consequences when it's reasonable to assume that it would. But what you are describing goes too far with it IMO. Unless the setting specifically calls for the opposite (as it would for example if I am playing in a world where magic is forbidden because reasons, and perhaps casters visit cities so they can fireball a crowd before turning invisible and escaping), I like to assume that magic is not seen as a loaded weapon under any circumstances. When a bard is performing on the street, they are more than a real world street performer. They may use illusions and all kind of magic stuff to enhance their performance and earns a crowd's attention and thus more coin. And I wouldn't say it would be natural to expect any passing by casters to counterspell you just in case you are casting meteor swarm, because what they see is natural within the game world. Perhaps they counterspell you if they want to sabotage your performance because they are jerks, or because they are rival street performers, or for some other reason that actually makes sense within the game world.

Besides, the spell description of this particular spell allows enough room for a DM to make a ruling that the components are unidentifiable. And since this is hardly a combat spell, or even a powerful out of combat spell, I am leaning to rule it that way. That would not be my default approach (and I would think twice before doing that for spells that are also on the sorcerer's list), but I think it is very appropriate in the case of enthrall.

[MrCharlie]

I don't get the hate for enthrall. It's the spell you are using to distract someone in order for one of your allies to steal something from them. Classic application is when the bard is performing and the rogue picks the pockets of the crowd watching the bard's performance. Sure, you don't really need a spell to do that, but the spell is there to potentially give disadvantage to the victims' perception. Much like enhance ability would be used to give advantage to the rogue's checks. Yes, it's a far more situational and far less versatile spell than enhance ability (not to mention that it relies on the enemies' failing saves while EA does not), but it clearly has its purpose. Sometimes you want be able to roll checks to distract targets, other times you might want every edge you can give yourself to prevent failure. Or you might want to delay someone for … okay, the duration is not great.

It's not a great spell, not at all. But I appreciate spells that facilitate approaches other than the usual smash and loot.

If they fail a save, then fail their perception check, sure, that could work.

Of course, if they failed a wisdom save, then they were likely going to fail the perception check anyway. And you've now visibly and obviously cast a spell on them, so good luck explaining that one.

Enthrall exists to get the bard arrested/dead at the best of times. Usually it just starts a big fight. It's bad enough that it could be a cantrip, and it would still be bad.

Oh, and if you want to sneak in and grab stuff? Cast charm person. The person you've charmed is likely going to be willing to just leave with you after that-and you can distract them regardless-it's the same save, and you have the duration to actually make use of it. Because both are obviously spells, people know you've done something to then when they end regardless, they just know what with charm person.

Basically, enthrall simply doesn't do anything better spells don't, or which simply using skills doesn't accomplish, unless it's hurting you.

(There is an exception-a Bard might cast it as part of a public event, because it can affect a lot of people. But if it's niche is that "Bard has to be allowed to be there and cast spells, and the rest of the party has to sneak" Then it's still 99.99% useless and might see play in one game in a thousand.)

Edit: And no, casting is visible and should be accounted as such by characters. If you cast a verbal spell you spoke a weird language at best, if you cast a somatic spell it's more believable but still weird. If I saw someone in our completely mundane and non-magical world wave their hands around and start talking in a weird language while staring at me, I'd assume they were mentally ill-people in any world with magic should react appropriately.

If you want to make that argument then suggestion is still a vastly superior spell for the same reason-you just suggest something as a verbal component, and the target has to do it. It's not obvious you cast anything, and there is significantly more justification to say that casting is non-obvious. The only downside is that its single target-but enthrall allows a wisdom save on all targets anyway, and you're unlikely to affect more than 60-70% of them, so unless it is, again, a giant crowd, the AOE is incidental.

[MaxWilson]

The plural use of that word is interesting. Assuming you can use Instant Summons on a bag or a backpack (which I think would be reasonable) you need to prepare an extra sapphire for each 10 pounds of gear. Backup spellbooks are 3 lb., a wand is another pound, a full waterskin 5 pounds -- it can really start to add up depending on how seriously you're taking the idea of having emergency backup gear.

But Secret Chest has much greater availability than Instant Summons anyway, so it's hard to call Drawmij's Instant Summons better even if you only want to use it for one or two things. If I want to be able to, say, access my backup spellbook as a mid-level wizard when I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere, having to wait four extra levels is a dealbreaker.

Bear in mind that nobody here is arguing that Drawmij's Instant Summons is *good*, just that for a high-level wizard with money to burn, it's better than useless.

I'd never put my primary backup spellbook in a Leomund's Secret Chest but I might put a tertiary backup in there if I happened to know the spell.

[Deathtongue]

I don't think this is off-topic, because we're talking about useless spells. And how Enthrall is perceived in-game is a big contributor to its uselessness.

I like to assume that magic is not seen as a loaded weapon under any circumstances. When a bard is performing on the street, they are more than a real world street performer. They may use illusions and all kind of magic stuff to enhance their performance and earns a crowd's attention and thus more coin. And I wouldn't say it would be natural to expect any passing by casters to counterspell you just in case you are casting meteor swarm, because what they see is natural within the game world.

Sure, if you're at a festival and you have your own booth, the guards probably might not arrest you just for casting a spell on some passerbys.

But people who justify enthrall never want to bring it up for situations like that or a librarian trying to catch the interest of some bored children. They always want to do something shady with it like sneak past guards or distract merchants long enough for shoplifting -- you know, situations where treating all not-agreed-upon magic like a loaded weapon is justified, because it's part of their job description/livelihood to be alert to possible illegal activity.

And I gotta say, it's really weird for enthrall apologists to go 'it's great in these situations when you're trying to distract important people like merchants and gatekeepers from seeing something you don't want them to see' to 'expecting important people like merchants and gatekepeers to react with hostility to unknown spellcasting is being too paranoid'.

[Deathtongue]

I'd never put my primary backup spellbook in a Leomund's Secret Chest but I might put a tertiary backup in there if I happened to know the spell.

Why not? By the time I start getting 4th level spells, it's a reasonable expectation for players to be at a point in their career where they're globetrotting. Calling a time-out and heading back to your secret base or even at the country's local bank to get, say, a backup spellbook can be an adventure-derailing complication. It's a pretty rare complication -- I've only encountered that situation once in 5E D&D -- but it's a complication that DIS doesn't provide more convenience in handling. After all, the failure condition requires massive amounts of Gygaxian DM machinations and/or player carelessness. And being available four character levels earlier way outweighs this minor drawback.

[sithlordnergal]

Heh, I'm sure a lot of my spell choices are going to be controversial, but here ya go:


Charm Person: I've never really had any use for this spell, ever. The only good things about it are that its not concentration and lasts an hour, but outside of that I've never had a use for it. It only works on Humanoids, which limits the spell a ton. It has Verbal and Somatic components, so you generally can't cast it in a social situation without people noticing. It causes the creature to regard you as friendly, which is ok, and causes the creature to be charmed, which is not ok. The Charmed condition has been nerfed beyond belief in 5e, to the point that it doesn't really do anything. Sure it grants advantage on a Charisma check...but so can good roleplaying and another creature aiding you. As for the not attacking you, creatures can still Grapple, Shove, ect., because those are not attacks or abilities that cause direct harm to you.


Friends: Its like Charm Person but worse. Never waste a cantrip on this spell.


True Strike: I've looked at this spell, I've tried to find some way to make it useful...I can't think of anything. The only time I can think of that it would ever be useful is in the hands of a poorly optimized Eldritch Knight or Valor Bard because you can cast and attack at the same time and could theoretically get advantage every round after the first one, but even then...you have so many better spells to choose from.


Enthrall: This is another "social" spell that just has no real use. I can't really think of any time when the party needed to make a distraction and thought "Hey, lets cast Enthrall". Usually we just lured people away with other spells and abilities. Not only that, but the disadvantage on perception checks can be pretty negligible depending on how well the DM rolls.


Detect Evil and Good: I'm sure there are times when this spell is really handy...but as someone who generally plays a Paladin, and has never been in a party without a Paladin, then there's really no point to it. The Paladin's Divine Sense works just as well and has a larger range. Even then, there aren't many times when I needed to do a Divine Sense...


Augury: I want to like this spell, but this spell has a lot of problems. First, its actually quite limited in how you can use it. You can only ask a question about a specific action you're planning to take in the next 30 minutes. Second, the answers tend to be really obvious or really vague. The times you get Weal or Woe, its usually pretty clear to know why and your party will usually tell you as such long before you cast Augury. For the questions that matter, you'll generally get nothing or Weal and Woe, which indicates good and bad, because it all depends on how well you roll on the check for it. The only times I have used this spell are to have some fun, I never actually expect the results to be useful.


Continual Flame: This spell is basically like a 2nd level Light spell, only it can effect torches and lamps. It is fun if you wanna make your Wizard tower look cool, but outside of that...I can't see why you'd prepare this spell for an adventuring day.


Dream: This is what I like to call a "DM only spell". It has a really cool effect, but I can't really see a party making use of this all that often. Its great to harass people since you can deny them a full night of rest, but at the same time that's just such a niche thing that its really only useful to DMs. You can also use it as a sort of Greater Sending, since its not limited by how many words you can send...but then again, Sending is a 3rd level spell, this is a 5th. Do you really wanna use a 5th level spell on a Sending spell?


Slow: Please note, I only consider this spell useless to players, but this is the best DM debuff spell in the game. So, why do I feel that Slow is a terrible choice for PCs? Simple, because at you have access to so many better 3rd level debuff spells than Slow. I will admit, Slow is a very nice debuff, and it does a lot. However, I feel Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, and Stinking Cloud are better debuffs for players to use then Slow does. Fear and Hypnotic Pattern only have one save, and if the targets fail then they can't do anything at all. Stinking Cloud allows multiple saves, but they happen every round and can prevent a creature from taking actions. That said, this spell is perfect for DMs, since it debuffs everything a player can do. In fact, it is the perfect debuff for DMs to use against their players, since it hamstrings the PCs without making them do nothing.


The Smite Spells: Yup, all of the Smite spells with the exception of Wrathful Smite and Banishing Smite. This is sort of one of those situations where they're ok melee spells...but why would you want to spend your Concentration on a spell that generally deals pitiful damage and has a lackluster secondary effect when you could use that spell slot to deal 2d8-5d8 damage. The only two decent Smite spells are Wrathful Smite, because if they fail the save they have to make a Wisdom check as an action to end the effect for being Frightened, and Banishing Smite, because it deals an extra 5d10 Force damage and can temporarily Banish a creature without a save if you knock their HP down low enough.


Hex: I hate this spell...I hate this spell because of potential it has to be good. In fact, it could be a great spell if there was one tiny change made to it...Remove Concentration from Hex and its perfect. The fact that this spell is concentration really limits this spell. You have to choose between doing an extra 1d6 damage on every hit for the next 1 to 24 hours...and every other concentration spell in the game.

[MaxWilson]

Why not? By the time I start getting 4th level spells, it's a reasonable expectation for players to be at a point in their career where they're globetrotting. Calling a time-out and heading back to your secret base or even at the country's local bank to get, say, a backup spellbook can be an adventure-derailing complication. It's a pretty rare complication -- I've only encountered that situation once in 5E D&D -- but it's a complication that DIS doesn't provide more convenience in handling. After all, the failure condition requires massive amounts of Gygaxian DM machinations and/or player carelessness. And being available four character levels earlier way outweighs this minor drawback.

Because I don't want to risk losing my primary backup, that's why. If I get Fireballed or captured and lose both my primary and primary backup, I'm sunk.

[Deathtongue]

Because I don't want to risk losing my primary backup, that's why. If I get Fireballed or captured and lose both my primary and primary backup, I'm sunk.

DIS doesn't really help you out in that situation, though. Sure, if you're in a Wolf of Wall Street situation where you're imprisoned and don't get your stuff back (i.e. chest replica or sapphires) for several years DIS has your back, but how often does that happen? But in more typical situations where you can't immediately access your primary OR your backup spellbook -- you die and wake up in your Clone chamber, you get captured by slavers who strip you of valuables -- neither spell does better than the other.

[Lille]

Friends: Its like Charm Person but worse. Never waste a cantrip on this spell.

Friends can be pretty useful, it's just niche. Among other things, it can give an at-will advantage on Intimidate, since it benefits all CHA checks.

Detect Evil and Good: I'm sure there are times when this spell is really handy...but as someone who generally plays a Paladin, and has never been in a party without a Paladin, then there's really no point to it. The Paladin's Divine Sense works just as well and has a larger range. Even then, there aren't many times when I needed to do a Divine Sense...

Which I'm sure is great, for people who are lucky enough to have a useful Paladin in the party. For the rest of us, Detect Evil and Good works well enough. Besides, Detect Evil and Good can be used to find fey, aberrations, and elementals, which Divine Sense doesn't help with.

Continual Flame: This spell is basically like a 2nd level Light spell, only it can effect torches and lamps. It is fun if you wanna make your Wizard tower look cool, but outside of that...I can't see why you'd prepare this spell for an adventuring day.

Not good for an adventuring day, but getting a 3rd-level Continual Flame cast gives you a permanent torch or lantern that can even light up a Darkness spell.

[Corran]

If they fail a save, then fail their perception check, sure, that could work.

Of course, if they failed a wisdom save, then they were likely going to fail the perception check anyway.

It gives a small numerical boost nonetheless. How important that boost is depends on how badly you want the targets to fail that perception check.

And you've now visibly and obviously cast a spell on them...

I believe that there is some room for interpretation here because of the spell description (see my answer to Deathtongue above). But this is a point I would rather not argue about since I understand it probably is very controversial.

… , so good luck explaining that one.
Enthrall exists to get the bard arrested/dead at the best of times. Usually it just starts a big fight. It's bad enough that it could be a cantrip, and it would still be bad.

I don't agree with that. I can see how it could hold true in certain settings, or in certain parts of one setting, but this is definitely not my default assumption or one that even makes sense IMO (see my previous post). I can understand if that's the way you like to run or play the game though.

Oh, and if you want to sneak in and grab stuff? Cast charm person. The person you've charmed is likely going to be willing to just leave with you after that-and you can distract them regardless-it's the same save, and you have the duration to actually make use of it. Because both are obviously spells, people know you've done something to them when they end regardless, they just know what with charm person.

I don't agree with that. Unless I am misinterpreting what you are saying. Do you mean that when enthrall ends, the people affected by it learn that they were affected by a spell but they don't know what the spell was? While in the case of charm person, they learn that they were affected by a spell, and furthermore they know that the spell was charm person? That's how what you wrote reads to me, and it's obviously not true, since nothing in enthrall says that the target learns they were affected by a spell when the spell ends.

Basically, enthrall simply doesn't do anything better spells don't, or which simply using skills doesn't accomplish, unless it's hurting you.

It gives a clear benefit, but its true value lies in the way you can use it (usually as part of some kind of performance). I would agree that in a game world where casting spells in public provokes the kind of reactions that range from being counterspelled to being arrested, it would be a useless spell to have.

Spoiler: way off topic

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It would be far less useful -but still useful- if we had concrete rules regarding ability checks. For example, rolling a performance of 20 or higher could -among other things- impose disadvantage on the perception checks of people watching that performance

(There is an exception-a Bard might cast it as part of a public event, because it can affect a lot of people. But if it's niche is that "Bard has to be allowed to be there and cast spells, and the rest of the party has to sneak" Then it's still 99.99% useless and might see play in one game in a thousand.)

Niche? Sure. But everything else is unnecessarily restricting. The bard could be casting this spell while performing in the street (and the rogue pretends to be a member of the audience), or in the tavern where the evil cultists will be meeting Thursday night and that's why the bard took a job there some days ago (and the rogue is working as a waiter). Or during a party that a noble is throwing at his mansion, and a small performance on the bard's part would help the rogue in trying to sneak out of the ball room unnoticed. It's one of those spells that help when you are trying to do things while avoiding combat. It's not a great spell, but it has its place in the game (outside combat obviously), and it happens to be very thematic for a bard.

[Deathtongue]

Continual Flame: This spell is basically like a 2nd level Light spell, only it can effect torches and lamps. It is fun if you wanna make your Wizard tower look cool, but outside of that...I can't see why you'd prepare this spell for an adventuring day.

You wouldn't prepare this spell for an adventuring day. It's used in downtime. If you have the time and money, you can prepare a lot of Continual Flame objects without having to deal with the issues of heat or handedness -- while still having your cantrip slot open.

Slow: Please note, I only consider this spell useless to players, but this is the best DM debuff spell in the game. So, why do I feel that Slow is a terrible choice for PCs? Simple, because at you have access to so many better 3rd level debuff spells than Slow.

Slow has two benefits that, while still making it inferior to Hypnotic Pattern/Fear, doesn't make it totally worthless. The first is that there's no monster in the game that can natively resist slow. A monster can have fear immunity, it can have charm immunity, and it can have poison immunity. It can't have slow immunity.

The second one is that Slow is party-safe. If you're fighting in a group with a lot of melee bruisers in cramped spaces like dungeon crawls, Slow is much easier to use than those other three spells.

Is it largely inferior to the three spells you mentioned? Yes. But it's not a 'I can't think of a reason why you would use this at all given alternatives' spell the way I feel about Ice Storm.

The Smite Spells: Yup, all of the Smite spells with the exception of Wrathful Smite and Banishing Smite.

I used Thunderous Smite on my Flying Boots-wearing Sorceradin quite a bit. Proning and pushing a flying melee creature without sacrificing attacks is no joke. Granted, I also used the Shove action quite a bit as well, especially when I had Haste up, but it was still a nice option to have for the low, low cost of a 1st-level spell slot.

Hex: I hate this spell...I hate this spell because of potential it has to be good. In fact, it could be a great spell if there was one tiny change made to it...Remove Concentration from Hex and its perfect. The fact that this spell is concentration really limits this spell. You have to choose between doing an extra 1d6 damage on every hit for the next 1 to 24 hours...and every other concentration spell in the game.

If Hex wasn't concentration it'd be freakishly overpowered. My Hexblade Warlock 1 / Evoker Wizard 15 used that spell all of the time in Adventurer's League. Especially once Simulacrums became a thing.

[Nifft]

Hmm.

I feel like Enthrall is useful when the caster can use a disguise to sneak on stage somehow, but the rest of the party can't sneak as effectively.

It's a way to leverage one character's disguise to cover the whole party.

IMXP that can be used reasonably often.

[MaxWilson]

DIS doesn't really help you out in that situation, though. Sure, if you're in a Wolf of Wall Street situation where you're imprisoned and don't get your stuff back (i.e. chest replica or sapphires) for several years DIS has your back, but how often does that happen? But in more typical situations where you can't immediately access your primary OR your backup spellbook -- you die and wake up in your Clone chamber, you get captured by slavers who strip you of valuables -- neither spell does better than the other.

You're conflating two things:

(1) situations where <spell> helps you, and
(2) situation where <spell> hurts you.

In the Clone scenario, you don't need Leomund's Secret Chest at all for a spellbook--you just keep your spellbook wherever you keep your clone, probably a Demiplane. Drawmij's Instant Summons can help retrieve your valuables (Staff of the Magi, Robe of the Archmagi, Ring of Free Action, whatever) that you lost when your last body died. Leomund's Tiny Chest can't retrieve those valuables. Score one for #1, "situations where Drawmij's Instant Summons helps you."

In the "all my stuff got stolen or destroyed but I'm still alive" scenario, which is the opposite of the Clone scenario, neither Drawmij's Instant Summons nor Leomund's Secret Chest will help you, because you don't have the tiny replica chest or sapphires. But in this situation, as long as the original stuff is not in a Secret Chest, you still have the ability to access the original stuff in its actual location, e.g. by Teleporting home after the adventure. You haven't permanently lost anything, you've just been inconvenienced. But if that stuff was in a Secret Chest, I'm sorry dude, it's gone. Score one for #2, "situations where Leomund's Secret Chest hurts you."

Hence why I wouldn't put anything truly important in a Secret Chest. You can if you want to--it's no skin off my nose.