Hirelings in 3.5

[Trandir]

Well without me having to "force" a meatshield NPC one of the party members wants to hire some muscle next session. How does it work exactly? This is a lesser-known field for me.

Sidenote: the player wants 4 guards and is willing to pay 1 gp each for extended periods of time. Any advice for their stats?

[Mike Miller]

I reckon the DMG has useful stuff for hirelings. Since you said you were thinking of a DMPC... You could also stat up some party-specific NPCs that will help round them out if they really need it and then let them pick who they want to hire. Let the players control the NPC in combat.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment...ingAndServices

Trained hirelings are 3 sp per day.

[Trandir]

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment...ingAndServices

Trained hirelings are 3 sp per day.

Oh but what does having a hireling means? You use your move action to controll them?
How far will they go for you? What are their stats more or less? And so on

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Oh but what does having a hireling means? You use your move action to controll them?
How far will they go for you? What are their stats more or less? And so on

DMG p105 has more specific hireling fees and descriptions. The mercenaries start at the top of page 106. A Mercenary Leader is 6 sp per day and is a 2nd level Warrior (NPC class) by default. A higher level Mercenary Leader is +3 sp per day per 1 additional character level. They should have the intelligence and experience to decide their own actions in combat without anything required on your part, unless you want them to do something specific which would likely be a free-action to speak a few words.

[KillianHawkeye]

Oh but what does having a hireling means? You use your move action to controll them?
How far will they go for you? What are their stats more or less? And so on

You don't have to spend your actions. Talking is a free action.

At minimum wage, you're probably looking at a level 1 Warrior. They won't be likely to stick around if things get too dangerous. They won't seriously risk their lives unless you've agreed to some kind of hazard pay. Don't expect them to stand and fight if any actual monsters show up.

Now if you want to spend more money, you can get better hirelings with better skills and better equipment.

[Fizban]

The main hireling rules are in the DMG. Arms and Equipment Guide has more detailed rules for mercenaries with higher levels and better equipment.

The low prices given for mercenaries are based on the idea of a noble (or wealthy adventurer) hiring an army for extended periods of time. Shockingly enough, this does not translate well to actual low-level dungeoneering. These are day-wages for people that expect to work every day, on a job that includes room and board. so it's good that they're thinking that way already.

But dungeon combat is still not army campaigning, and even armies loot. The DMG fails to note this, and AaEG says the amount is set by haggling. The DMG does say that Cohorts get half a share of treasure, but that's a single cohort. A group of mercenaries that outnumbers the party, when the party is still at a level where the mercenaries are fighting the main foes rather than being along to keep goblins away from the horses? I'd expect them to take at least 1/3, if not a full 1/2 of the treasure. And by filling a critically empty role in the party, they're counting for at least one person's worth of xp- they don't actually gain xp, but the party counts as at least one larger when calculating it.

One of the major points of having human(oid) help is that they're not robots. You need to use a move action to give an animal an order (unless it's your animal companion), but you can communicate with mercenaries as easily as the rest of the party. Their actions are still determined by the DM. Heroes of Battle has mass combat rules that can include diffculties of giving orders, but generally for just a few hirelings there's no need to be making special checks or actions.

But yeah- just because they want to hire mercenaries doesn't mean they're not ending up with an NPC meatshield, it's just a slightly different form. And really, if it's acknowledged that they're short a party member and that these hirelings are substituting for it, there's pretty much zero room to argue that loot and xp should somehow be unaffected by hiring a replacement party member. You don't have to charge them loot, but it would make no sense for anyone to do that much of the fighting for pocket change. You don't have to charge them xp, but if you don't then you're effectively making them level faster, and faster leveling plus reduced cash means eventual WBL problems.

For a faster example of 1st level warriors, you can just look at the humanoid entries in MM1: Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Hobgoblin, etc. They're all 1st level warriors with the non-elite array and basic gear (the elf and dwarf have expensive bow and armor, but nothing crazy). There's no Human entry, but you get the idea. Most 1st level warrior entries tend to have Weapon Focus, but Humans have a bonus feat- and if they had a skill bonus feat, they wouldn't be a mercenary. The simplest and most powerful feat for a 1st level warrior is actually Toughness, for a massive boost to hit points, and humans can have both a weapon focus and Toughness (it would mess with their rational CR a lot more, but that doesn't matter here). Of course there's also stuff like Improved Initiative, or with Heroes of Battle they could Shield Block or Shield Wall, and so on, depending on how optimized you want the easily available mercs where they players are to actually be.

[Trandir]

The main hireling rules are in the DMG. Arms and Equipment Guide has more detailed rules for mercenaries with higher levels and better equipment.

The low prices given for mercenaries are based on the idea of a noble (or wealthy adventurer) hiring an army for extended periods of time. Shockingly enough, this does not translate well to actual low-level dungeoneering. These are day-wages for people that expect to work every day, on a job that includes room and board. so it's good that they're thinking that way already.

But dungeon combat is still not army campaigning, and even armies loot. The DMG fails to note this, and AaEG says the amount is set by haggling. The DMG does say that Cohorts get half a share of treasure, but that's a single cohort. A group of mercenaries that outnumbers the party, when the party is still at a level where the mercenaries are fighting the main foes rather than being along to keep goblins away from the horses? I'd expect them to take at least 1/3, if not a full 1/2 of the treasure. And by filling a critically empty role in the party, they're counting for at least one person's worth of xp- they don't actually gain xp, but the party counts as at least one larger when calculating it.

One of the major points of having human(oid) help is that they're not robots. You need to use a move action to give an animal an order (unless it's your animal companion), but you can communicate with mercenaries as easily as the rest of the party. Their actions are still determined by the DM. Heroes of Battle has mass combat rules that can include diffculties of giving orders, but generally for just a few hirelings there's no need to be making special checks or actions.

But yeah- just because they want to hire mercenaries doesn't mean they're not ending up with an NPC meatshield, it's just a slightly different form. And really, if it's acknowledged that they're short a party member and that these hirelings are substituting for it, there's pretty much zero room to argue that loot and xp should somehow be unaffected by hiring a replacement party member. You don't have to charge them loot, but it would make no sense for anyone to do that much of the fighting for pocket change. You don't have to charge them xp, but if you don't then you're effectively making them level faster, and faster leveling plus reduced cash means eventual WBL problems.

For a faster example of 1st level warriors, you can just look at the humanoid entries in MM1: Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Hobgoblin, etc. They're all 1st level warriors with the non-elite array and basic gear (the elf and dwarf have expensive bow and armor, but nothing crazy). There's no Human entry, but you get the idea. Most 1st level warrior entries tend to have Weapon Focus, but Humans have a bonus feat- and if they had a skill bonus feat, they wouldn't be a mercenary. The simplest and most powerful feat for a 1st level warrior is actually Toughness, for a massive boost to hit points, and humans can have both a weapon focus and Toughness (it would mess with their rational CR a lot more, but that doesn't matter here). Of course there's also stuff like Improved Initiative, or with Heroes of Battle they could Shield Block or Shield Wall, and so on, depending on how optimized you want the easily available mercs where they players are to actually be.

So I either give them wore loot and leave the exp unchanged or give them less exp and have the hirelings accept pocket change.

Also thanks for the detailed explanation. They'll probably need the extra help just for a couple of more levels.

[Endarire]

Hirelings have traditionally been viewed as gold-fueled cannon fodder, especially for low levels. Hirelings were more common in previous editions where "small" armies of 10, 20, or more characters took on low level dungeons and dangers, but were mostly lost prominence in later editions because smaller parties are simpler to run.

If you simply want meat and have the money to spare, get some War Trolls. (They were listed for free on the Monster Manual III Wizards excerpt but I didn't find that specific link. Google them for their stats.)

[Fizban]

So I either give them wore loot and leave the exp unchanged or give them less exp and have the hirelings accept pocket change.

Also thanks for the detailed explanation. They'll probably need the extra help just for a couple of more levels.

The simplest setup would be two mercs- that way they don't outnumber the party, you can count them together as one extra party member, and they get the same amount of treasure as everyone else (which they split between themselves). Two non-elite warriors are roughly equivalent to one PC at low levels, and you had 3 PCs? So you can just set up normal four-PC encounters and they'll level up and gain loot as normal, aside from the mercenaries not leveling up (unless you decide they do anyway).

[Trandir]

The simplest setup would be two mercs- that way they don't outnumber the party, you can count them together as one extra party member, and they get the same amount of treasure as everyone else (which they split between themselves). Two non-elite warriors are roughly equivalent to one PC at low levels, and you had 3 PCs? So you can just set up normal four-PC encounters and they'll level up and gain loot as normal, aside from the mercenaries not leveling up (unless you decide they do anyway).

Yes 3 PCs party.

If the mercenaries soak part of the exp and gold should't they also level up soon or later?

[Fizban]

If the mercenaries soak part of the exp and gold should't they also level up soon or later?

No, because they're hirelings that just follow orders and don't get xp. Unless you decide that they do because you're the DM. The Leadership feat is where you're actually supposed to get your army from in 3.5, the follower and cohort rules, but there are prices for hirelings and there are hireling mercenaries and the prices are so low that anyone can afford them, so the question comes up. How you want to run it is actually entirely up to you. Even the cohort system is half-baked.

I would normally recommend just having a NPC party member- it sounds like that is considered undesirable, but anything less means they will eventually have to either face the fact that hirelings are not suitable for adventuring, or accept that they have essentially added an NPC party member(s). In fact, if your party intends to go with just the three of themselves in the future, it would probably be better if they started learning how to manage it now. Or if they're the type that expects to "hire some muscle," as in having expendable melee things, they then should pick up some character abilities to do it- again, Animal or other Companion stuff. I just showed up to point out that other intelligent non-class-feature beings should be taking cuts of treasure and effectively increasing the party size.