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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default The Century Fighter

    Over at my home ground we've been musing what minimum level is required to reliably kill 100 CR1/2 enemies in an open field battle. I could imagine you peeps might also enjoy this kind of theorycrafting so I'd like to run it by you.

    I am aware this hinges a lot on the constraints and conditions of the engagement, so let's assume the following:

    Ruleset: Your choice of 3.5 OR PF1 -- please specify which you are using, and please don't mix.
    - Preferrably use Core races
    - 3.5: Point Buy 32, none under 8
    - PF: Point Buy 25, none under 8
    For PF, please do not multiclass Hybrid classes with their "parent" classes.
    No dumb Cheese like Pun-Pun. No Leadership, no pre-buffing from NPCs. You are alone.

    You are equipped with 100% WBL for the level you pick. However, no more than 15% of this amount should be invested in consumables. (such as Wands)
    Maximum Consumable use for this engagement: 1500GP. (fractional cost for wand charges expended)
    Items as they are presented in the books - no custom items, but you can combine items for the usual +50% surcharge.
    No partial-charged wands; and all consumables come at minimum caster level.

    NOTE: The less Cheese you use, the more Style Points you get. ;) Likewise, extra Style points for NOT specializing on this task. :)

    Scenario: a Warband of 100 marauders is approaching your village. Forget the militia, it's rubbish. You are the only one who stands in the raiders' way. You can engage the warband some distance away at a narrow where the passage is only 200ft wide.

    Terrain: open grassy field. The grass is high enough to allow hiding when prone. Otherwise, no cover. Let's say the battleground is 200 ft wide, and 1000ft long.

    Enemy stats: for both 3.5 and PF, use Pathfinder Hobgoblin. Attack +3, Damage 1d8+2 (melee), 1d8 (ranged), 17HP. AC 16, Fort +5, Ref +2, Will 0

    Enemy Behaviour:
    Initial formation: checkered square formation 100x100ft across, i.e. 10 rows of 10.

    The enemy will fight you as long as you engage them, but will not be kited in a different direction. If you are not putting enough pressure on them, they will ignore you or split up and hustle on to the village, which they will reach within 15-20 minutes if you don't stop them. So just becoming impervious to their attacks isn't enough if you can't kill them fast enough.
    They are all armed with longsword, shield, and longbow. Simply assume they have _enough_ arrows.
    They do not have any special abilities, but may try to use combat maneuvers / special attacks if they see that as a promising approach, especially if they realize they can't hurt you with normal attacks.
    Every round 8 of them will try to surround you and engage you in melee.

    If you are Small or Medium-sized and remain standing/moving on the ground, we'll assume that 20 archers can see you and will shoot you every round, and the remainder suffers too much from Soft Cover afforded by their friends to reliably target your square. If an archer runs out of ammo, he lines up for melee.
    If you are size Large or larger, or if you fly, or if you are mounted, every combatant will shoot at you (or your mount) as long as they can see you.
    If you are prone, assume the archers cannot get a fix on you and won't shoot as long as there are other combatants in the way.

    If they are hit with area spells, they will try to disperse and get more space between them. However, if they aren't aware of an imminent area attack, you may get 2 such spells in before they can scatter effectively.

    Use statistical averages for Hits/Saves/Damage.

    Anything yet unclear? ^^

    --

    My findings so far:
    I have only examined this scenario with Pathfinder rules yet.
    - So far, level 8 seems to be the magic threshold where this task becomes doable for several (most?) classes. Below that, it is hard to fulfill both offensive and defensive requirements. (I fully expect this to be lower for 3.5) Wizard may do it at 7 and Druid _maybe_ even at 6, but I haven't done the full math for the latter.
    - Damage Reduction and/or Fast Healing or other form of self-healing seem to be crucial.

    For a 3.5 character, of course it's much easier to pick up Great Cleave and go to town -- just 3 feats investment here (including Power Attack), where for the same effect in PF you need to pay FIVE frickin feats. I also expect there's a boatload of other shenanigans that I've forgotten about (haven't played 3.5 in 4 years). Supreme Cleave of course would be nice, I know. ;)

    Okay, your turn. :)

    Edit:
    Now since the first couple of propositions have followed the same pattern, let me clarify / introduce another constraint: You are not supposed to make matters worse!
    You are trying to save your village. Turning the mundane warriors into undead nightmares that can make more of themselves is NOT working to that effect.
    Or in other words, the victory condition is not "no more Hobgoblins around" but "no more hostile creatures that endanger your village, EDIT2: and the townsfolk safe and sound".
    Last edited by Firechanter; 2020-05-29 at 07:32 PM.
    Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Firechanter View Post
    *: (The PF Hobgoblin is listed with 17HP, but that is illegal -- D10 + 3 CON + 3 Toughness has a max of 16)
    You forgot their favored class bonus - presumably the example hobbo took the +1 HP.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Your estimates sound about right for the levels required. It does ofc get a fair bit easier with builds that are more optimized towards low-ending fighting.
    I need to look up some rules; I don't have a good sense of how hard it is to survive a mass grapple. With just one person it's fairly easy for them to surround you, so they can get lots of help on the grapple. Good use of aid another action by them could make a sizeable difference.

    Mineral Warrior template is quite effective at shutting down their regular attacks; then again it should be quite feasible to simply get enough AC that they're only hitting on a 20 anyways.

    I get the feeling that as a melee char, it's easier in pathfinder to push your CMD high enough than it is in 3.5 where you have to worry about trips and grapple.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Without specializing for this scenario: level 5.

    Build:
    Level 5 Wizard, Focused Specialist Conjurer, Human. Feats: Fell Drain, Easy Metamagic(FD), MM School Focus(Conjuration). Stats: Int 16. The rest doesn't matter, really.
    This is a good basis for a spellcaster as it applies Fell Drain as a +1 modifier, and 3/day applies it for free to Conjuration spells. The killer move is available at level 3, I cite it at level 5 because by then you can do it more than 3/day.

    Killer Move:
    Fell Drain Kelgore's Grave Mist.

    Tactic:
    Approach under an Invisibility spell, apply Killer Move.
    Prepare all your 3rd level slots as Killer Move. With a 16 Int and focus specialist, that's 4 spells. Also prepare 3 2nd level slots as Killer Move, but reduced by MM School Focus, for a total of 7 uses per day. Also prepare 2 Invisibility spells, and 1st level slots can be FD Sonic Snap or something.

    Explanation:
    Kelgore's Grave Mist is a 2nd level spell that creates a fog with 20ft radius(40ft diameter), in which creatures automatically take 1d6 Cold damage per round. There's also a Fatigue rider effect, no save. Fell Drain is a +2 MM that applies a negative level whenever you deal damage with the spell. This is usually a minor, consistent debuff that can be well used on long drawn-out fights to great effect. But here, enemies have 1 HD, so they automatically die, no save, upon taking the first bit of damage, as per the Negative Level rules. The area effect is a 40ft diameter circle, and if we can get 2 off at the start of combat, it's a good portion of their ranks dead with no save before we have to care about movement. With 7 castings to spare, you can kill most of them easily, and the rest are taken care of one by one with FD Sound Snap.

    More cheese:
    If you pick Flaws, you can add Invisible MM(+0) to remove visual effects from spells, so the autokill zones are invisible and they only see their friends dropping like flies.

    Variation:
    You can do it by level 6 with a Silverbrow Human Sorcerer, and trade Easy MM(which is from DragonMag) for Practical MM from Races of the Dragon, if you don't like Dragon Magazine. You get an extra feat which will go with the prereq for MM School Focus you don't meet as a Sorcerer. Alternatively, you take MM School Focus off and get Arcane Thesis: Kelgore's Grave Mist if you want a killer spell for rider effects. This is a more challenge-focused approach, but it also works great and nets you many more casts of your Killer Move. Also nets you a free feat to apply Invisible MM.

    Closing statement:
    This is not a build specialized for the challenge. This is an effective debuffing build for normal play, and can go any way after that like your usual Wizard. The first Sorcerer version is even less focused, as you're not giving up schools or anything. The elegance here is that no dice are rolled at all, no attacks or saves, and it's a 100% effective move by virtue of base mechanics.
    Last edited by Kayblis; 2020-05-29 at 05:29 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    You forgot their favored class bonus - presumably the example hobbo took the +1 HP.
    Duh! Yes that makes sense. I always keep forgetting that. Thanks.

    --

    I consider IP-proofing your character as baseline step, i.e. you should make sure the enemy only hits you on a 20, and ideally you hit them on anything but a 1 (at least on your primary attack(s)). So you need AC26, or at least AC24 if you are flank-immune. This isn't such a big problem, even. The trouble is, that alone won't help you much, as under the circumstances as presented you will still take about 70 damage per minute just from Nat20s alone. That's why I think you need some kind of hit negation, DR or healing.

    One PF build that does it:
    Fighter 8, Adamantine Full Plate, Armored Juggernaut --> gives a combined DR 5/-. Fast Healer, drink potions of Infernal Healing --> Fast Healing 3. That basically negates all damage and you can just keep going.

    Another quick and easy option for a Paladin (8) with Magical Knack trait is to use a scroll of Angelic Aspect -> gain Fly, DR 5/Evil, then use Lay on Hands periodically to top up your HP.

    A Wizard (7) I tried out can wipe up to 70 enemies with 4 area spells if they don't scatter well enough; he'd Fly and use Protection from Arrows, and mop up the remaining Hobbos with a Rain of Frogs or two. Still it's a bit iffy; the Hobbos might outsmart the swarms and then the Wizard would have nothing but cantrips and his consumables left. Does not sound surefire; I'm almost certain 3.5 will have something outrageous in store...

    Edit: ...as Kayblis has just demonstrated. Chapeau!
    Last edited by Firechanter; 2020-05-29 at 05:51 PM.
    Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
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    Dec 2004

    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Anything that can be incorporeal, or anything that can gain an incorporeal minion and reliably avoid the opponents (turn invisible, fly, etc.). They don't have magic weapons so they can't beat an incorporeal creature, it will inevitably win.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    @Kayblis, your concept looks awesome and I'd love to give you style points for it; I was certainly very amused when I read it. ^^ However, there is one tiiiiiiny flaw that unfortunately kinda spoils it: any creature killed by energy drain by default returns 24h later as a Wight (unless otherwise specified). So I'd say congrats, you got rid of a threat of 100 CR1/2 Hobgoblins and created a threat of 100 CR3 Wights in direct proximity of your village. So, yeah you solved one problem but created a much bigger one.

    @Biffo: anything particular come to mind that you can summon / turn into / bind at low levels? :)
    Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Firechanter View Post
    @Biffo: anything particular come to mind that you can summon / turn into / bind at low levels? :)
    A Wizard 3 can cast Command Undead to control a Shadow, and can use Invisibility to avoid the hobgoblins while the shadow goes to work. Orders like, "Let's go find something to kill," shouldn't require a charisma check even. He can tell it to kill them all while he runs away invisibly, he wouldn't even need to come back to retrieve the shadow(s), and it may be best if he doesn't.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Firechanter View Post
    No dumb Cheese
    Spoiler: Dumb Cheese
    Show
    3.5
    NE Wizard 5
    Int 16

    Knowledge (Religion):
    • 8: Skill Ranks
    • 3: Intelligence


    Hawk Familiar

    Spells:
    • Adept Spirit
    • Fireball
    • Invisibility
    • Sadism




    The plan:

    1) Prep familiar for sacrifice ritual that culminates in getting fireballed.

    2) Pre-cast "Invisibility" on Familiar. Pre-cast "Invisibility" on self. Pre-cast "Adept Spirit" on self.

    3) Combat starts. Familiar flies invisibly towards army at 240 ft/round. Wizard casts "Sadism". This should be his last 2nd lvl spell.

    4) Familiar arrives at the front of the army ~600 ft away. Familiar and wizard intone "for the glory of [insert evil deity]". Wizard triggers Adept Spirit, then casts Fireball targeting a point ~25 ft behind the front. This should be his last 3rd lvl spell.

    5) 44 hobgoblins are within the fireball area (assuming they're walking in file, but not squeezing or flying). 6d6 fire damage, DC 16 Ref for half. 28 hobgoblins fail (taking 21 fire damage), while 16 succeed (taking 10 fire damage). If sadism totals up all damage before dividing by 10, the wizard gets +74; if it's calculated per person for some reason, it's only +72 instead. This gives the wizard +75 on the sacrifice check, which is enough for a Wish spell.

    6) ???

    7) Profit!


    Most of the build is pretty basic. There's two weird spells, but eh. Honestly even if you don't have Adept Spirit for +1 CL, as long as you've got Sadism, Fireball, and access to sacrifice rules, you can basically take a shot at starting up a Wish loop whenever you can manage to gather enough meatsacks in a 20 ft radius area. There's reasons the sacrifice part wouldn't necessarily work, and even if it does work, Sacrifice Rules and Wish Loops are cheating any day of the week. Even if you don't start up a Wish loop and just use the Wish to destroy these hobgoblins, it's basically "pick any 8th lvl spell, including metamagic combos, and bring it down on their head. That should be sufficient.

    (there's probably a neat PF build that cheats its way into using Sacred Geometry Fireball to just blast these guys to smithereens but that's also pretty cheesy.)

    EDIT: And none of this is to say anything of how "an army of 100 hobgoblins" is a much smaller problem for any village than "an evil wizard willing and able to score free wishes with the sacrifice rules". I would wager that most problems count as smaller problems than that latter option.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2020-05-29 at 06:57 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    @Biffo:
    Alright, using Shadows basically results in the same problem as Kayblis' approach -- only without the 24h grace period. Instead of 100 Hobgoblins you get 101 Shadows, again, in direct vicinity of your village. I would not exactly count that as "problem solved" anymore; it's kinda like burning your house down so you don't have to take out the trash.

    @Vecna:
    Cheesy, but funny nonetheless. xD However, according to the premise, the Hobbos march in a checkerboard formation (for exactly the reason to mitigate area blasts), so one Fireball (or similar area spell) will catch 22 individuals, of which about 17-18 will fail the save. I'm not familiar with that sacrifice stuff; what do you get for 17 kills? ^^
    Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Firechanter View Post
    @Biffo:
    Alright, using Shadows basically results in the same problem as Kayblis' approach -- only without the 24h grace period. Instead of 100 Hobgoblins you get 101 Shadows, again, in direct vicinity of your village. I would not exactly count that as "problem solved" anymore; it's kinda like burning your house down so you don't have to take out the trash.

    @Vecna:
    Cheesy, but funny nonetheless. xD However, according to the premise, the Hobbos march in a checkerboard formation (for exactly the reason to mitigate area blasts), so one Fireball (or similar area spell) will catch 22 individuals, of which about 17-18 will fail the save. I'm not familiar with that sacrifice stuff; what do you get for 17 kills? ^^
    (side note: I miscalculated up there: the conservative reading of Sadism would give the "44 targets fireball" a minimum of +72, instead of the far more liberal reading that gives +74. +44 is the absolute minimum, if all of them succeed on their saves.)

    Sadism (a spell, unrelated to the sacrifice mechanics) is +1 on checks per 10 points of damage dealt in the previous round. At 6d6, that's basically +1 per successful save, and +2 per fail. DC 16, and hobgoblins have +2, so they succeed on a 14. This is a 13/20 failure rate, so lets say 14/22 fail and the remaining 8 succeed. That's +36, on top of base +11, and +2 from Adept Spirit...that's +49. This also isn't accounting for your familiar, who I didn't mention but is intended to be deliberately failing the save to die as the sacrifice (and as such would give maybe another +1/+2?).

    The sacrifice mechanics are, you perform a ritual ending in a death, and you make a Knowledge (Religion) check to get benefits. You can only get one benefit a day. You can do a bunch of small things to give small bonuses on the check, things that make it more..."sacrificial ritual"-ish, if you get my meaning: torturing the victim before the murder gives a bonus, making it a day-long ceremony, or in front of a big crowd...the victim being genuinely willing to be sacrificed gives a bonus. But I'm assuming the wizard gets none of those, because getting it purely from skill ranks, middling Int, and Fireball+Sadism helps make it more authentic. Wish is DC 50, so the +49 up there is still sufficient

    Even if they get inordinately lucky, and every one of them saves, and we take the weaker reading where it's only +22 towards your sacrifice, that's +35 without any of the weird bonuses like I mentioned there. 1d20+35 means at minimum you get a "Greater Planar Ally" (DC 35), but also means a high chance to get "Limited Wish" instead (DC 40), and a low chance of getting a "Wish" anyway (DC 50).


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    "Greater Planar Ally" limited to Evil Outsiders basically means "Marilith". Such a creature would spend approximately 2 minutes slaughtering this helpless army, and the remaining 58 minutes are yours to direct it as you please. I'm sure this would still be considered a worse problem for that village than the hobgoblins.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Darrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Apocalypse Martini can do it with a 1st level cleric.

    However... I think I'd rather try to rework the Vertical Cattle Stampede, because it's funnier. Requires a 10th level Commoner.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Well, that would depend on what you decide to do with that Marilith, and whether it disappears again when the time is up. ^^
    But holy sh-- yes a Marilith would literally snack them for breakfast. :o

    BTW, the whole sacrifice thing reminds me of Conan D20, where they truly never really cared for game balance and enabled a combo that worked like this:
    - any Sorcerer can always use all his remaining Power Points to fuel a "Defensive Blast" centered on himself (1d6 dmg per PP or something to everyone _else_ in the area, I don't remember exactly)
    - there's a feat that allows to gain PP for sacrificing people in a ritual; more PP for female virgins, but anyone will be worth something.
    - and another feat "Opportunistic Sacrifice" allows you to declare any kill in combat as post-hoc sacrifice.

    So you get the idea... you blast with as many PP as possible, kill some enemies, which will instantly recharge your PP, rinse and repeat. Or as someone on the Mongoose forums put it back then, "You can just keep exploding all day".

    --

    @Darrin
    Geez why do you guys all hate your own townsfolk so much? You just wiped them out entirely. Victory conditions in the OP amended... again.
    Last edited by Firechanter; 2020-05-29 at 07:33 PM.
    Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    I'm still pondering/refining builds;

    Once you get into a melee; a crusader using the Stone power feat should be able to survive regular hits very effectively, assuming a solid AC. You should be able to afford an average ~15hp/turn of damage factoring in martial spirit stance and the basic healing strike. The question then becomes ensuring you don't get in trouble from tripping or grappling; the marauders could also run past, you'd kill a bunch, but a lot of people running at once is quite hard to stop. With some AC optimization, you could just fight while prone, so tripping wouldn't be a problem; that still leaves grappling though. The methods of getting freedom of movement are generally not sufficiently inexpensive to work well here.


    On another note: I'd be interested to hear how using Spheres of Might works for this challenge.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

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    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    So, I decided to look at this without casting:

    There's two relevant things you need here:
    Ability to avoid/ignore attacks
    Ability to inflict damage in a large radius.

    The problem is, the first one basically requires specific focus from martials. AC 24 is easy enough to hit(full-plate is 19 on it's own), but AC isn't enough, just due to nat 20s. Either you grab DR or something(flight, intangibility, etc), or you die. And if you're already grabbing Flight, why not just be a caster and solve your problems that way? DR5 from Crusader is good but not reliable(no idiot Crusaders at ECL 6), or plenty of races can do it(but watch the LA for Large as well as DR skyrocket).

    The second point is significantly easier. Once you can handle 5 1d8 arrows per round, all you do is be large, Combat Reflexes, Spiked Chain, Great Cleave(+PA+Cleave). You can get all mandatory feats by 6 with 2 levels of Fighter, which also gets you 2 attacks per round, or earlier as a human.
    Spoiler: lvl 4 human
    Show

    H: Combat Reflexes
    F1:Power Attack
    1: EWP: Spiked Chain
    3: Cleave
    F2:Great Cleave


    The problem is, while that can kill the enemies(yes, you have to eat a few melee attacks per round so there's enough people in range for each AoO to set off a Great Cleave chain, given the risk of a nat-1 ending it early and your dex being like 16 max), it doesn't keep you alive. And DR 5 means still taking as much as 6 damage per hit. DR 10 is too rare to grab easily. I don't see a good way for a martial to pull this off, unless they do something silly.


    So, let's go another way.
    Dark Whisper Gnome Rogue 5. +16 Hide due to race and size, lvl 5=8 ranks, 17 Dex+2(race)+1(lvl 4)=+29 to the check. ECL 6. Small size to hide in the grass without being prone. On a 1 hit a Hide of 30, enemies roll a 20 max. Move Silently is +23. Distance applies penalties to enemy's spot and listen. Feats/items are unimportant, though anything that can up your AB to +14 (currently at +10) is useful for convenience's sake. Masterwork Shortbow.
    Sneak towards the enemy. Wait for them to get within 30'. Shoot 1, move, hide as part of the move. Dark allows you to hide while being observed. Repeat ~110 times. 11 minutes later, you're looking at a trail of dead hobbos ending ~4-9 minutes out from the town. There's definitely ways to refine this, tune it up, but I wanted cushion in there.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    A few quick notes:

    - Grapple defense: Grease up. The "min caster level" constraint I imposed is inconvenient, yes, but an Oil of Grease will give you +10 vs Grapple attempts.

    - Sneaky Gnome: for one you'll certainly want that feat that allows you to avoid the -20 Hide penalty for hiding after shooting.
    The other snag I see is, if the grass is high enough to hide, it's also high enough to obscure your vision I suppose.
    And after a number of snipes I'd expect the Hobs to also hide and/or mb try to encircle their stalker.
    Last edited by Firechanter; 2020-05-29 at 11:34 PM.

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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    A 7th level Dark Moon Disciple Monk is essentially an unstoppable, undetectable guerrilla warrior as far as CR 1/2 beings are concerned... as long as you don't attack during the day (or it's cloudy out). You might run into problems with them just ignoring you and attacking the town, but that would be some bad luck to have enemies that decide "Whatever this mysterious force is, it can only kill two of us every six seconds, so let's get to pillaging".

    I feel like there's a way to make the Kelgore's grave mist strategy work using Fell Frighten instead of Fell Drain. It only takes 3 rounds to completely remove every hit enemy from the fight with no save (they will literally stand there cowering as you handcuff them or beat them to death, depending on how merciful you're feeling), and get seriously debuffed in the first two rounds to boot. However, the duration is short enough that you'd run into problems of it wearing off unless you added another source of fear that was longer lasting (all fear effects are automatically extended to wear off when the last one wears off).

    Adding the Wraith template from Savage Species gives you an army killer at level 1, ECL 8. Self-replicating within 1d4 rounds of killing a creature, and all your spawn are under your permanent control. Same problem of being powerless in daylight, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    the mist could work with fell weaken as well, you just need to Coup de Grace all the attackers afterward.
    If you can get a (costum item) mm rod of widen, you can also use other 3rd level spells.

    as for my idea, any class 5 with maxed handle animal, with items to boost it and animals to fight the hobgoblins
    Edit 2: Here is the handle animal guide that jump to my memory when i thought using animals for this, i suggest looking at elbis at the bottom of the page
    http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1300.0

    Cheese: same as above, just use druid, fleshrakers and venomfire spell with MM rod of chain.
    Last edited by TheCount; 2020-05-30 at 05:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Also pseudodragons takes easily more screen time than "true" dragons.
    (but it is fair: "true" dragons are not telepathic venomous flying cats and so does not deserve screen time like a pseudodragon)

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Hmm... I bet anything with a wis boost for race, warlock for class could pull this off. Use summon swarm to chew through everything while sitting in a shapesand glasssteel shelter. If they don't focus on you, turn that shapesand into a catapult and demand their attention.


    Just make sure you max out wis. Higher than anything the mooks can hit and attain max focus on the sand at the start of the day.
    ,,,,^..^,,,,


    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    Edit- I understand it now, Fighters are like a status symbol. If you're well off enough to own a living Fighter, you must be pretty well off!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Probably against the rules, but I've started working with PF 3pp materials.
    My posting may be slowed due to new job.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    For comparison purposes, that's interesting too. However I'd suggest only using material that is intended to go together, not look for crazy unintended synergies between two 3PPs.

    FWIW I've toyed around with Path of War. Silver Crane looks promising- just need to refresh those self-heal manoeuvres regularly, haven't done the math.
    At level 9 it goes nuclear with the stance that gives DR10 and Flight. Could take on thousands of low-levels at that point.

    Elemental Flux might do it sooner, that discipline seems a bit OP anyway.
    Last edited by Firechanter; 2020-05-30 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Damn you autocorrect

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Uncle Pine's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Any class would work, but given the title of the thread a Fighter 1/Ghost 1 of any LA +0 race can do it at ECL 2: as others have pointed out, the hobgoblins can't touch any creature with the incorporeal subtype, which you are, so the only additional requirement to win is a way to damage them. A single +1 ghost touch shuriken, which is well within the 900 gp WBL of a 2nd level character, takes care of that as shurikens don't break when used as improvised melee weapons. Since you don't even need Exotic Weapon Proficiency (although you can grab it if you want), all the remaining resources can be used to style up your characters.

    A Warlock 1/Ghost 1 doesn't even need to bother with specific equipment, since it can pelter the hobgoblins to death with his eldritch blast alone. In this case, posing as a spirit of the land risen from the dead to strike down the invaders great vengeance and furious anger may be worth quite a few Style Points. In this case, not a single part of the build is specifically dedicated to overcoming the challenge and the character would be equally functional as part of a normal adventuring group.
    Extended signature here. Contains: 2 avatars, 3 quotes, a doggo and his friends.

    Kitchen Crashers: an adventure building Iron Chef - First edition running 20/04/18-18/05/18.

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Firechanter View Post
    - Sneaky Gnome: for one you'll certainly want that feat that allows you to avoid the -20 Hide penalty for hiding after shooting.
    The other snag I see is, if the grass is high enough to hide, it's also high enough to obscure your vision I suppose.
    And after a number of snipes I'd expect the Hobs to also hide and/or mb try to encircle their stalker.
    Unless I've been misunderstanding the rules, Snipe applies for shooting and then trying to hide in the same spot. Standard action shoot, move action move+hide doesn't get the -20. You normally can't do it because Observed, but HiPS fixes that.

    The thing about getting mobbed is there's ways to play around it/avoid it(tumble, default starting position, extra movement modes, etc), but I didn't want to get into them because they're so dependent on the exact situation. There's absolutely versions of this where 99 arrows turn every square Gnome could be in into a pincushion, or ones where he reenacts the long grass scene from Jurassic Park 2.

  25. - Top - End - #25
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Warlock Ghost, nice. The strat is sound, but at ECL2 it would take too long -- whittling down that company with 1d6 dmg makes it a good thing you're already a ghost, otherwise you might die of boredom. XD

    About 5 hits per enemy, requires about 8-9 attacks? Not sure what Attack bonus you can get.
    Times 100 means 800 rounds, or 80 minutes.

    Since the warband cannot engage you, they would just continue towards the village, and reach it with some 80% of their force intact.
    (Or they might say screw it, and retreat, but let's assume they fear their Boss more than they fear death)

    I wouldn't allow the shuriken, that's exactly the kind of cheese I don't want to have at my table.
    A proper Ghost Touch weapon might be attainable around level 5, if we ignore the guideline that a single item should not take up more than what? 50% wbl?
    So [Any] 5 / Ghost 1 would do the trick I guess -- a Warlock 5 would kill 1 target in about 2 rounds quite reliably as well.
    Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Jul 2017

    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Alright, gonna post this now because I can feel my brain frying so excuse any mistakes I make. I saw that a lot of people are making armies of one. So, only using Spheres content, I present The Hobgobin with One Army. I know nothing close to leadership was permitted, but I had the idea and wanted to run with it for fun.

    Spoiler: Leader's mostly complete statblock
    Show

    The man with one army
    Hobgoblin Prodigy 6
    NG Medium humanoid (goblinoid, troop)
    Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8

    DEFENSE

    AC 24, touch 13, flat-footed 21 (+6 Armor, +3 Dex, +5 Shield)
    hp 48 (6d8+21)
    Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +8


    OFFENSE

    Speed 20ft.
    Melee Tower shield +7 (1d8+3/x2)

    STATISTICS

    Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 8
    Base Atk +4; CMB +7; CMD 20
    Feats Extra Magical Talent(Additional Companion), Extra Combat Talent(Cohort attack), Extra Combat Talent(Drill Sergeant)
    Skills Skill1, Craft(Alchemy) + 12, Skill3, Skill4, Skill5, Skill6, Perception +9
    Languages Common, Goblin, Draconic, Orc, Infernal
    Equipment: Lamellar(Steel) Armor, 2 Tower Shields,

    PB: 16, 14, 14, 15, 10, 8

    ASI - +1 Int

    Martial Tradition - Armored Dreadnought

    Talents

    Replace Sneaky Trait with Natural Leader(Grants Leadership Sphere as a bonus talent; Cohort package, Dread Master, Squadleader drawback)

    Martial Tradition
    Shield Training
    Armor Training
    Alchemy Sphere(Mana Chemistry drawback, take Shape Chemistry; Formulae Package(Improved Acid Flask))
    Warleader Sphere

    Casting Tradition
    Conjuration Sphere
    Greater Summoning


    6 Blended Talents
    Tower Shield Mastery
    Greater Recruitment
    Greater Recruitment
    Greater Recruitment
    Lingering Companion(Form, used on companion 1)
    Lingering Companion(Form, used on companion 2)



    Traits
    Gift for Magic(Conjuration)
    Intelligent Bruiser

    Max HD of Leadership cohorts - 5
    Controllable HD of Leadership cohorts- 24



    Spoiler: Hobgoblin Melee Troop
    Show


    Hobgoblin Melee Troop


    Medium humanoid (goblinoid, troop)
    Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8

    DEFENSE

    AC 24, touch 13, flat-footed 21 (+6 Armor, +3 Dex, +5 Shield)
    hp 42 (5d10+15)
    Fort +5, Ref +2, Will -3


    OFFENSE

    Speed 20ft.
    Melee Troop attack (3d10+3)

    STATISTICS

    Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 11
    Base Atk +5; CMB +8; CMD 21 (A troop cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, except by area effects that include such effects.)
    Feats Feat1, Feat2, Feat3
    Skills Skill1, Skill2, Perception +8
    Languages Common, Goblin
    Equipment: Lamellar(Steel) Armor, Dagger, Tower Shield

    ASI - +1 Con
    +2 Enahncement - Dex

    Martial Tradition - Armored Dreadnought

    Talents

    Source Key - (TR) Tradition, (FT) Talent from a feat, (HD) Talent from Hit Dice

    Equipment
    Armor Training(TR)
    Shield Expert(TR)
    Shield Training(TR)
    Tower Shield Mastery(TR)



    Spoiler: Hobgoblin Woodsman Troop
    Show


    Hobgoblin Woodsman Troop


    Medium humanoid (goblinoid, troop)
    Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8

    DEFENSE

    AC 19, touch 19, flat-footed 14 (+4 Armor, +5 Dex)
    hp 42 (5d10+15)
    Fort +5, Ref +2, Will -3


    OFFENSE

    Speed 20ft.
    Melee Troop attack (3d6+1)
    Ranged Volley (2d6); 100ft range, 15ft radius DC 16 Reflex save for half; appropriate talents may be applied
    Deadly Shot (2d10)

    STATISTICS

    Str 12, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 10
    Base Atk +5; CMB +8; CMD 21 (A troop cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, except by area effects that include such effects.)
    Feats Feat1, Feat2, Feat3
    Skills Skill1, Skill2, Perception +8
    Languages Common, Goblin
    Equipment: Dagger, Longbow with 20 arrows

    ASI - +1 Con
    +2 Enhancement - Dex

    Martial Tradition - Canny Hunter

    Talents

    Source Key - (TR) Tradition, (FT) Talent from a feat, (HD) Talent from Hit Dice

    Barrage Sphere(HD)
    Mobile Focus(HD)

    Equipment
    Huntsman Training(TR)
    Unarmored Training(TR)

    Scout Sphere(TR)

    Sniper Sphere(TR)



    Spoiler: Conjuration Snake Troop
    Show


    Serpentine Martial Companion
    Medium outsider (troop)
    Init +3; Senses Perception +8

    DEFENSE

    AC 24, touch 24, flat-footed 21 (+5 Armor, +3 Dex, +6 Natural Armor)
    hp 37 (5d10+10)
    Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +4


    OFFENSE

    Speed 20ft.
    Melee Troop Bite(2d6+1)
    Bleed damage - 2

    STATISTICS

    Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
    Base Atk +5; CMB +8; CMD 21 (A troop cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, except by area effects that include such effects.)
    Feats Extra Combat Talent, Extra Combat Talent, Feat3
    Skills Perception +5
    Languages Common
    Equipment: N/a

    ASI - +1 Con
    +2 Enahncement - Dex

    Free Form Talent: Form - Troop



    Talents

    Source Key - (TR) Tradition, (FT) Talent from a feat, (HD) Talent from Hit Dice

    Duelist sphere(FT)
    Blood Drinker (FT)

    Equipment
    Unarmored Training(HD)



    Spoiler: Purchases
    Show

    Costs (16000 gp)
    2 tower shields = 60 GP
    31 sets of Lamellar(Steel) Armor - 150*31 = 3875 GP; 1 for the commander, the others go to increasing the AC of the Melee troops


    So, with our investments, the commander will have three hobgoblin melee troops under his command, two woodsman troops, and two Serpentine troops. The primary strategy is to rush the enemy army, surrounding them on all sides using the melee and serpentine troops. Melee attacks from troops automatically strike all creatures in their reach, so on average the hobgoblin melee troops will make a guarenteed kill on all hobgoblins in their reach [(5.5*3)+3 = 19.5]. The serpentine troops on average will take two attacks to kill, but after the first strike they will gain up to 2d6 temporary HP from attacking bleeding targets.

    Woodsman
    Outside of the box of death, the Woodsman will make Deadly Shot Volley attacks into the center, on average dealing (3.5*2) + (5.5*2) = 18 damage to the hobogoblins that fail their save and 9 damage to any who do save.

    Commander
    During his prep time prior to the fight, the commander will make Improved Acid flasks modified by shaped Chemisty making it a DC 25 Alchemy check. With Steady Skill, he can expend his martial focus up to three times per day to take 15 on the check, allowing him to make three batches of four Shaped Improved Acid flasks. Each of these deal 4d6(avg. 14) in a 15-foot cone with a DC 16 Reflex Save. Using one of these counts as an opener.
    His job is to lead and coordinate his soliders. To start with, he wants to engage the frontline and make attack actions using his shield to trigger Cohort Attack, allowing one of his melee troops to get another attack for free and move up their ranks to slowly box in the opposing army. This acts as an opener beginning a sequence and he will be default imbue conjuration as he has no other magical spheres. Depending on rulings with troops, for your finisher you may wish to trigger Press the attack to order a Melee troop next to him to make another attack. If that isn't applicable, then you would be better off activating Carpent Bomb and throw up to 6 Shape Blast Improved Acid flasks into the army. While enemies can't take damage more than once from it, you can set them up to die to a Woodsman troops' next volley.
    My posting may be slowed due to new job.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Orc in the Playground
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    May 2015

    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Spheres of Might is a 3rd party supplement for pathfinder that makes martial characters more interesting. One slight issue it has is it makes stacking defenses much easier, and this is mostly a challenge of surviving volley fire. So I present Darkness the Darkness Defender (Sentinel Archetype). She also uses material from the Highlanders Handbook (War Paint and Highland Clansman), which is a spheres of might supplement. Beyond that there is only material from pathfinder core rulebook and the advanced player's guide.

    Spoiler: Darkness, 6th level
    Show

    --------------------
    Darkness
    --------------------
    Female Human Sentinel [Darkness Defender] 6
    Init +3; Perception +10
    --------------------
    Defense
    --------------------
    AC 27, Touch 13, Flat-Footed 26 (+1 Dex, +10 Armor, +3 Shield, +1 Natural, +2 Deflection)
    HP 68/68 (6d12+24); Temp HP 0/9; Delayed Damage 0/18
    Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +6
    DR 5/-; Berserk (-2 AC & -2 Reflex; +9 Temp HP; +2 Damage; Penalty and Benefits last 1 round; Free Action at the start of your turn to use)
    Active Defense (AoO; Increase shield bonus to AC by +3 against one attack)
    --------------------
    Offense
    --------------------
    Speed 20 ft.

    Bastard Sword +13/+8 (1d10+10, 19-20/x2)
    Dagger +12/+7 (1d4+9, 19-20/x2)
    Brutal Strike +13 (1d10+22, 19-20/x2)
    Shove +12 (6 damage plus battered, Regain Focus)

    Guardian's Challenge: +2 Attack & Damage against challenged creatures.
    Challenge (Swift Action/Free if you expend focus): Challenge a creature you can see who can
    perceive your challenge. The creature takes a -3 penalty on attack rolls that do not include
    you as a target and a +2 bonus on attack rolls targeting only you. The challenge lasts for 6
    rounds. When you issue a new challenge, any previous challenge you have active ends.
    Mass Challenge (Move Action/Swift if you expend focus): As challenge, but you may target up
    to 5 creatures.
    Defend Other: When an ally within your threatened area is the target of an attack roll, you
    may spend an AoO to grant them a +3 competence bonus to their armor class against that
    attack. If this attack would still hit, you may choose to take the damage in your ally's
    place.
    Reaper's Momentum (Requires you have martial focus): Whenever you reduce a creature to 0 hit
    points or fewer with a melee or thrown weapon attack, you may immediately make a bonus attack
    against another creature with a melee or thrown weapon.
    Attacks of Opportunity: 7/7 per round. Can make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.
    Martial Focus: x1

    War Paint [Orange](Gain DR 1/- which stacks)[4 hour duration](x1 prepared)
    War Paint [Silver](Gain +2 Deflection bonus to AC)[4 hour duration](x1 prepared)
    Salve (3d8+1) (x3 prepared)
    Sentinel's Reserve (4/4 Points)
    (1 Point; Swift Action): Gain 13 temporary hit points that last for 1 minute or until lost.
    (1 Point; Swift Action): Heal 3d6+1 hit points. Cannot raise her above 1/2 HP. She can
    reduce this by half to regain martial focus.
    --------------------
    Statistics
    --------------------
    Str 22 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 8
    Base Atk +6; CMB +12; CMD 25
    Feats: Muscular Reflexes, Extra Combat Talent x2, Extra Traits
    Skills: Bluff [1] +3, Climb [1] +10, Craft (Alchemy)[6] +11, Diplomacy [1] +3, Handle Animal [1] +3, Intimidate [6] +8, Knowledge (Nobility)[6] +9, Perception [6] +10, Ride [1] +5, Sense Motive [6] +10, Swim [1] +10
    Traits: Highland Clansman [Orange & Silver], Reactionary
    --------------------
    Spheres of Might
    --------------------
    Martial Tradition: Warden
    Alchemy Sphere [Formulae](Salve, War Paint [Orange, Silver])
    Berserker Sphere (Reaper's Momentum)
    Brute Sphere (Focused Might)
    Equipment Sphere (Armor Training, Duelist's Grip, Duelist Training, Shield Training)
    Guardian Sphere [Challenge](Defend Other, Mass Challenge, Swift Guardian)
    Shield Sphere
    --------------------
    Equipment
    --------------------
    +1 Bastard Sword
    +1 Heavy Steel Shield
    +1 Full Plate
    +1 Amulet of Natural Armor
    +2 Belt of Giant Strength
    +1 Cloak of Resistance

    Dagger
    Alchemist's Lab

    2 643 gp



    Spoiler: Tactics
    Show
    Darkness walks up to the hobgoblins and wants to be surrounded by as many hobgoblins as possible so she doesn't have to move. She will full attack if possible or use a normal attack action if not. Brutal Strike costs Martial Focus and I don't think that is worth it for her in this encounter. She will always berserk, and between temp hp each round, DR 5/-, and delayed damage pool the hobgoblins pretty much can't hurt her. She doesn't use active defense as AoO are more important for killing anyone attempting combat maneuvers, and extra AC doesn't do anything. Unless her swift action is needed elsewhere, Darkness uses it to challenge the first target of her full attack to increase her chances of 1-shotting them.

    The delayed damage pool allows Darkness to delay that much damage from affecting her. The pool empties dealing damage at the end of each of her turns. If she is unlucky and takes 2 or more critical hits in the same round (filling up the delayed damage pool), she expends one of her Sentinel's Reserves as a swift action to gain 13 additional temp hp (for a total of 22 with berserking) to soak the damage.


    Spoiler: Worst Case Surviveability
    Show
    Even with Berserk against a Challenged foe, Darkness has 23 AC. But I think she will only challenge one Hobgoblin at a time and then swiftly kill it, so she will have 25 AC against almost all of them, meaning even if they flank they will only hit on a natural 20. Let us assume they all get to attack in melee (won't happen), and that 4 hits and 1 crits (usually the worst case scenario). Average damage from this is 15 which is reduced by 9 temporary hit points to 6 then delayed until next turn where she gains 9 new temporary hit points reducing her to 3 temp hp the next turn. Over time this means she takes 6 damage/turn, meaning it takes 13 turns to kill her. 3 Salves add 7 rounds of surviveability at the cost of 3 standard actions, while 4 uses of Sentinel's Reserve adds 8 rounds of surviveability at the cost of only swift actions. This gives her 24 rounds of surviveability.

    What if ranged attacks? We are still assuming 4 hits and a crit, making it 11.75 damage per turn. Reduce this by 9 from temporary hit points and we are down to 2.75 damage each turn. So much less damage than the melee hobgoblins.


    Spoiler: Offense
    Show
    Against a challenged hobgoblin, a normal attack is +15 (1d10+14) giving her an ~85% chance to kill a hobgoblin with it. Against non-challenged hobgoblins it is +13 (1d10+12) giving her a 63% chance to kill one. Between iterative attacks and an extra attack once per round when she kills a hobgoblin, lets assume she kills 1.5 hobgoblins each round then she will kill 40 of the hobgoblins before she goes down.


    Spoiler: Complications
    Show
    With only 20 move speed, the hobgoblins can run in circles around her firing arrows, though they are only have 20 arrows each according to the bestiary so they should run out before they get lucky enough to deal significant damage. Darkness can take run actions to move 60 ft., and even flat-footed and berserking they only hit her on a natural 20. They can try to grapple or trip her, but 7 attacks of opportunity each round makes that seem unlikely to work and without aid another help they still only succeed on a natural 20 while flanking. The most reasonable tactic is probably to ignore the heavily armored fighter and loot the village.


    Spoiler: Victory in Sight
    Show
    Using the outlined tactics in the opening post, the actual average damage dealt each round is 6.1625 which is less than her temp hp while delayed damage helps equalize out rounds where the hobgoblins are lucky. Presumably the hobgoblins will flee after they spend several minutes doing no noticeable damage while getting whittled away. Rounds where they attempt combat maneuvers result in massive amounts of attacks of opportunity meaning the hobgoblins only die more quickly, and even if they succeed Darkness has enough defenses to tank around until she can stand up/kill the hobgoblin grappling her.
    Melee Hobgoblins: 8*0.05*1.875 (normal hit) + 8*0.05*0.05*6.125 (extra damage from critical hit)
    Ranged Hobgoblins: 92*0.05*0.75 (normal hit) + 92*0.05*0.05*8 (extra damage from critical hit)


    Edit: Looking at how few hobgoblins your hobgoblin tactics assume get to attack each round, Darkness probably can manage to kill them all at 5th and maybe 4th level. Her DR would be reduced to 4/- and she would have to drop three talents, probably Brute Sphere and Focused Might as well as Mass Challenge since they don't do much for her in this encounter. Temp HP and Healing would be reduced somewhat as well (7 temp hp each round from berserking and 9 temp hp from Sentinel's Resolve at 4th level, and only a delayed damage pool of 12), and less bab/wealth would reduce her damage output (4th level's 6k gold would still cover her AC with +1 Full Plate, +1 Heavy Shield, and +1 Amulet of Natural Armor; But leave her at +10 for 1d10+7 damage; +2 damage from berserking, +1/+1 challenge). Her War Paint duration would fall to 2 hours.

    Spoiler: Darkness, 4th level
    Show
    --------------------
    Darkness
    --------------------
    Female Human Sentinel 4
    Init +3; Perception +8
    --------------------
    Defense
    --------------------
    AC 26, Touch 12, Flat-Footed 25 (+1 Dex, +10 Armor, +3 Shield, +1 Deflection, +1 Natural)
    HP 47/47 (4d12+16); Temp HP 0/7; Delayed Damage 0/12
    Fort +7, Ref +2, Will +5
    DR 4/-; Berserk (-2 AC & -2 Reflex; +7 Temp HP; +2 Damage)
    Active Defense (AoO; Increase shield bonus to AC by +3 against one attack)
    --------------------
    Offense
    --------------------
    Speed 20 ft.

    Bastard Sword +10 (1d10+7, 19-20/x2)
    Brutal Strike +10 (1d10+15, 19-20/x2)
    Dagger +9 (1d4+7, 19-20/x2)

    Guardian's Challenge: +1 Attack & Damage against challenged creatures.
    Challenge (Swift Action/Free if you expend focus): Challenge a creature you can see who can
    perceive your challenge. The creature takes a -3 penalty on attack rolls that do not include
    you as a target and a +2 bonus on attack rolls targeting only you. The challenge lasts for 6
    rounds. When you issue a new challenge, any previous challenge you have active ends.
    Defend Other: When an ally within your threatened area is the target of an attack roll, you
    may spend an AoO to grant them a +2 competence bonus to their armor class against that
    attack. If this attack would still hit, you may choose to take the damage in your ally's
    place.
    Reaper's Momentum (Requires you have martial focus): Whenever you reduce a creature to 0 hit
    points or fewer with a melee or thrown weapon attack, you may immediately make a bonus attack
    against another creature with a melee or thrown weapon.
    Attacks of Opportunity: 6/6 per round.
    Martial Focus: x1

    War Paint [Orange](Gain DR 1/- which stacks)[2 hour duration]
    War Paint [Silver](Gain +1 Deflection bonus to AC)[2 hour duration]
    Salve (2d8+1) (x2 prepared)
    Sentinel's Reserve (3/3 Points)
    (1 Point; Swift Action): Gain 9 temporary hit points that last for 1 minute or until lost.
    (1 Point; Swift Action): Heal 2d6+1 hit points. Cannot raise her above 1/2 HP. She can
    reduce this by half to regain martial focus.
    --------------------
    Statistics
    --------------------
    Str 20 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 8
    Base Atk +4; CMB +9; CMD 21
    Feats: Extra Traits, Muscular Reflexes, Extra Combat Talent
    Skills: Bluff [1] +3, Climb [1] +9, Craft (Alchemy)[4] +7, Diplomacy [1] +3, Intimidate [4] +6, Knowledge (Nobility)[4] +7, Perception [4] +8, Sense Motive [4] +8,
    Swim [1] +9
    Traits: Highland Clansman [Orange & Silver], Reactionary
    --------------------
    Spheres of Might
    --------------------
    Martial Tradition: Warden
    Alchemy Sphere [Formulae](Salve, War Paint [Orange, Silver])
    Berserker Sphere (Reaper's Momentum)
    Equipment Sphere (Armor Training, Duelist's Grip, Duelist Training, Shield Training)
    Guardian Sphere [Challenge](Defend Other, Swift Guardian)
    Shield Sphere
    --------------------
    Equipment
    --------------------
    Mwk Bastard Sword
    Dagger
    +1 Full Plate
    +1 Heavy Steel Shield
    +1 Amulet of Natural Armor

    803 gp
    Last edited by Lirya; 2020-05-30 at 06:54 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Alabama
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    On another note: I'd be interested to hear how using Spheres of Might works for this challenge.
    Well it makes getting an equivalent to Great Cleave much easier for starters, and also offers quite a bit more AOE than a normal PF martial gets. Grab the Berserker, Duelist, and Lancer spheres and try Whirlwind Knockdown+And Stay Down+Advancing Carnage, adding (Bleed) and (Impale) talents to taste. You trip everyone in reach (up to 15ft radius with the right setup), dealing bleed damage and triggering an AOO against them all if you have enough to spare. Then Advancing Carnage kicks in because Whirlwind Knockdown is an attack action. You're taking a -2 to all of these rolls but they're CR1/2 so hopefully do don't miss often.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    Here's a simple SoP build, it can probably be optimized further. I left as much unspecified as possible.
    Incanter 4, Light Specialization
    Feats: (1st), (3rd), Searing Brilliance (bonus at 4th)
    Casting Boons: Easy Focus
    Talents (three open):
    * Alteration: (beast soul), (lycanthropic), dedicated elemental transformation (air), lingering transformation
    * Light: (light focus), (roving glow), (subtle light), black light, dancing lights, lingering glow, searing radiance
    * Telekinesis: kinetic field, telekinetic push

    Strategy:
    1) Turn into an air elemental (flight 30' or 60' depending on boons/implement)
    2) When in sight, start maintaining a Kinetic Field around yourself. This can be concentrated on as a move action, so you can attack while doing it.
    3) Start burning the hobgoblins down with invisible moving death fields. You can start doing this from 150' away, 600' if you spend one more talent.

    Defense:
    You're flying.
    Any projectiles up to 5 lbs (25 lbs with an implement or boon) that fly close enough to you are deflected.

    Offense:
    As a standard action, you can make invisible zones, 40' radius, which last for two rounds. They move at up to 60' a round, and can follow simple directions like "follow that hobgoblin".
    Anyone inside the zone takes 5 fire damage and 5 untyped damage per round, no save.
    Having a Light implement or boons that boost CL will increase both the damage and area.

    Notes:
    You don't need Easy Focus, you can just spend a SP to sustain Kinetic Field each time you move, and with your range you probably won't need to move for this challenge. But it's a good boon to have anyway.
    If doing this in general, I'd also recommend a boon that boosts CL. Draw Magic is easy to sustain using Light if you have a little preparation time. And implements, of course.
    I think Light is probably the best approach for army-killing, but there are alternatives to TK for defense. Dark would let you hide in super-darkness, for example, and Alteration can also give you fast healing.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2020-05-31 at 04:33 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Century Fighter

    I'm having a look at 3.5 Martial Adepts, particularly Warblade and Crusader.

    The Warblade unfortunately, though my favourite class in all of 3.5, does not lend itself particularly well to this kind of task. The class has several strong points, such as various No buttons vs hostile spellcasters, strong single-target damage and even some leadership qualities, but virtually nothing in the way of fighting low-level hordes. (Mithral Tornado would be so much better if it weren't for that "adjacent" clause.)

    The Crusader on the other hand seems to be virtually foolproof. Cover your basic AC and Atk/Dmg needs, pick one or two self-healing strikes, and you're basically golden. You can't go too low in level as you need to make sure you can hit reliably and deliver enough damage, so I wouldn't expect miracles. Given enough WBL, I'd probably invest in a +1 Discipline weapon -- yes of course Goblinoid Bane would be stronger, but also much more specialised.
    Still, it ain't trivial. PF offers a bit higher baseline in low-op games and it shows - in 3.5 you need to pull a few more tricks to IP-proof your AC without going broke, particularly if we want to go 2-handed.

    [Bonus: though outside the scope of this challenge, _2_ Crusaders could rock this show at pretty low level I suppose. Just both give them Iron Guard's Glare and AC is easy-peasy, then empower each other via White Raven, and keep taking turn after turn with WRT.]
    Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.

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