New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 61 to 76 of 76
  1. - Top - End - #61
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuroch Kern View Post
    Well, careful about casting it in a vacuum. Eventually, we all risk a slotted spell, face a high AC DPSer, SOMETHING, and you might be needing that one(1) Arrow of Slaying to hit the dragon. It may delay, but it grants Advantage out of the blue, often times in scenarios where you can't really have it.
    Arrows of Slaying are precisely the kind of reason I'd like the spell to be relevant. This iconic moment when you NEED to make that shot...

    Thing is, this kind of situation shows up, what, twice a campaign ? It doesn't make TS worthwhile, RAW. I personally would be fine if my players used it to critical hit the dragon (in fact, since the spell is only 30 feet, it would make for an awesome and tense moment where they approach it, have to maintain concentration/bluff it then attack...)

    The Help action/Hide action are other ways to get advantage which don't cost a precious cantrip. Hell, Find Familiar can do everything RAW True Strike can, (and so much more in terms of recon etc) without costing concentration, actions nor a spell slot once it's been cast.
    Last edited by Osuniev; 2020-06-03 at 04:17 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Boulder Creek
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Osuniev View Post
    Arrows of Slaying are precisely the kind of reason I'd like the spell to be relevant. This iconic moment when you NEED to make that shot...

    Thing is, this kind of situation shows up, what, twice a campaign ? It doesn't make TS worthwhile, RAW. I personally would be fine if my players used it to critical hit the dragon (in fact, since the spell is only 30 feet, it would make for an awesome and tense moment where they approach it, have to maintain concentration/bluff it then attack...)

    The Help action/Hide action are other ways to get advantage which don't cost a precious cantrip. Hell, Find Familiar can do everything RAW True Strike can, (and so much more in terms of recon etc) without costing concentration, actions nor a spell slot once it's been cast.
    Not often, true, but keep in mind the initial casting is 30'. You can move away to like 100' and still take that shot next round. This is an example of it sucks, until a situation comes up where it is all you got. Which is fine for a S only spell that you never run out of. I don't think the fix is allowing it to be usable every round after the first. Help/Hide are also infinite advantage, but those also cost actions and have conditions were they can be used too. Turning TS into a recipient in 10', as opposed to a single target in 30', gives it a little more flexibilty as a party buff. Especially if it is Twinned.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Boulder Creek
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    I suppose adding the wording "ignores half and three quarters cover" would also make it less difficult...

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2020

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    I really like Zhorn's suggestions from the other thread, especially the one about making it similar to BB / GFM that it is a spell that requires an attack. Then you add scaling dice to the attack roll. My only question is why not also add the same scaling dice to the damage roll since it would compete with BB / GFB?

    True Strike:

    Evocation cantrip

    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Weapon Range
    Components: V, M (a weapon)
    Duration: 1 round

    You gain insights into the weaknesses of one foe and strike where its guard is down. As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make an attack with a weapon against one creature, otherwise the spell fails.

    When you roll to hit, you add an additional 1d6 to the attack roll. On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects.

    At Higher Levels. At 5th level, the attack deals an extra 1d6 damage to the target, and the bonus to the attack roll increases to 2d6. Both rolls increase by 1d6 at 11th level and 17th level.

    Spell Lists. Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard


    I think this captures the idea of casting a spell that makes your attack more likely to hit and strike where it hurts. An arcane trickster would have to give up BB to use this, so they would sacrifice damage for chance to hit. Other martials would probably rather attack twice, even sharpshooters and great weapon masters. If this is still too strong, you can limit it to melee attacks like BB /GFB.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Just for the record, an offensive Plane Shift is much better than Banishment. Banishment lets you take an enemy out of a fight for as long as you keep concentrating, and then, if you can keep concentrating for a full minute, and if the enemy is extraplanar, you can get rid of it permanently. Plane Shift lets you get rid of an enemy right now, permanently, no matter its creature type.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Just for the record, an offensive Plane Shift is much better than Banishment. Banishment lets you take an enemy out of a fight for as long as you keep concentrating, and then, if you can keep concentrating for a full minute, and if the enemy is extraplanar, you can get rid of it permanently. Plane Shift lets you get rid of an enemy right now, permanently, no matter its creature type.
    Well, that's true, but it also cost a 7th spell slot and you need your attack to hit AND his Charisma save to fail. Most fights, if I have both available, I'd choose Banishment. I'd even more try two Banishment than a True Strike then a Plane Shift.
    Last edited by Osuniev; 2020-06-03 at 07:32 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Apr 2020

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Osuniev View Post
    Well, that's true, but it also cost a 7th spell slot and you need your attack to hit AND his Charisma save to fail. Most fights, if I have both available, I'd choose Banishment. I'd even more try two Banishment than a True Strike then a Plane Shift.
    Sure, but Banishment ends your concentration, Plane Shift does not.

    Melee attacks aren't that hard to hit at high levels either. Even if you're enemy has a coveted 21 AC, you're attack modifier is roughly +10-11 so it isn't that hard to hit w/ True Strike. The Charisma save is annoying but hopefully you're targeting someone with mid-low charisma saves or without any proficiency. Plus, as Max mentioned, Banishment delays the problem, Plane Shift can basically solve it.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zhorn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Space Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by sayaijin View Post
    I really like Zhorn's suggestions from the other thread, especially the one about making it similar to BB / GFM that it is a spell that requires an attack.Then you add scaling dice to the attack roll.
    Daww, I enjoy my posts being noticed
    Quote Originally Posted by sayaijin View Post
    My only question is why not also add the same scaling dice to the damage roll since it would compete with BB / GFB?
    Additional damage isn't including because of the power-creep concern. This point has been brought up in the true strike discussion many times in the past, often by people far smarter than I am, but the general principle there's a base level of power that you shouldn't exceed too easily as to avoid making you change the best choice in ALL scenarios. The more power you add, to keep in line with the other options available at the same level there should be some cost or restriction that stops it being the best in all conditions.
    Take Green Flame-Blade and Booming Blade, both are stronger than a regular attack, but costing an action makes then less versatile than the Extra Attack feature. You can attack multiple times, or just once for a bigger hit.
    Adding damage on top of True Strike is making it even stronger than that, even with dropping in die size, it is still the superior choice in the matter. You are essentially making the attacking weapon an equivalent of a +1d6 Magic Weapon at a cantrip level (note the spell for Magic weapon is a 2nd level spell for a +1), and it only gets more OP at higher levels if you include level scaling.
    It's a big allure of homebrew to keep adding +pluses, but to keep the design balanced you need to look at what the other options are at that power level, what the cost is for other things that grant more power, and draw your line in the ground as your "do not pass this" marker.

    At the cantrip level (ie: Action cost, no spell slots) you can have ONE of: +damage or +accuracy or +extra attack. Only one. Any more than that and you are in spell slot territory or should be relying on a higher level class feature to achieve.

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Actually, if you're creating an attack roll cantrip that'd largely be used on casters - why not make it a single-turn version of Shillelagh? Instead of being locked into a club or quarterstaff, True Strike would allow the caster to use their casting modifier for the attack and damage rolls, and lock it into a specific damage die. The tradeoff, of course, is that Shillelagh lasts a minute without concentration, but is weapon-locked; while New Strike would be expanded to any weapons you are proficient with, but lasts a single round with concentration.
    Last edited by Vogie; 2020-06-03 at 09:48 PM. Reason: spelling
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    What if it was not a spell but an action anyone could take. All other descriptors being the same (Action, Concentration, etc). That way its still useful in those random edge cases(eg arrow of slaying).

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2020

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Zhorn, those are some great points. I guess I was trying to balance with BB / GFB by sacrificing damage for accuracy. I guess attack roll boost only is the way to go.

    Alternatively, Vogie had a decent idea too. One weapon attack using casting stat instead of martial stat. That way, they could remove the Hexblade's feature and just tack it on a cantrip.

  12. - Top - End - #72
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Quote Originally Posted by sayaijin View Post
    Alternatively, Vogie had a decent idea too. One weapon attack using casting stat instead of martial stat. That way, they could remove the Hexblade's feature and just tack it on a cantrip.
    I wouldn't remove that section of Hexblade, because it'd be a nonbo with Thirsting Blade invocation... but it'd be useful for Tome and Chain locks to be able to use their lone attack better. Tomelocks with Shillelagh were the original hexblades, of course.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    why do you want to know?

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    I like the idea of making it a bonus action, but in my opinion it should also give you some info on the target (like the Battle Master's feature). However, this information should have a cooldown so you don't just get everything about them.
    Schrodinger's Post: everything I post is either extremely wrong or extremely right, and no one knows which until someone fact checks it.

    I am here for two reasons; criticizing people's decisions, and adding to my abomination of a homebrew google document that is over 80 pages long.

    Stay fresh y'all, and always play Wisdom casters!

  14. - Top - End - #74

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    We made is simple. Bonus action and gives +4 to hit to next attack. Not bad, not terrible.

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2018

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Seems to me a good way to make it useful is to allow you to grant others the advantage or other benefits instead of only yourself. It could compete with cantrips for damage if you could help ensure that fighter or rogue gets all their damage swings in.

  16. - Top - End - #76
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default Re: Fixing True Strike

    Ah, good ol' build a better mousetrap time.

    Here's a version I don't think has been proposed before:

    True Strike
    Casting Time: 1 bonus action
    (No concentration)

    If you make an attack this turn and miss, the next attack you make before the end of your next turn may be made with advantage.



    If you have it, there's basically no reason to ever not use it, but I don't think it's broken, even if you combine it with Great Weapon Master and War Caster (which is a combination that I don't think anyone would normally take). No concentration roadblock, and no interfering with action economy, other than perhaps duel wielding. (Since you have to cast it before the attack that missed, you have to choose whether to use the spell or use the offhand attack, but can't only use the spell when you miss.)

    You also can't guarantee it will affect a specific attack, which avoids a certain amount of cheesing (though not all). Mainly, it's not just a +4 to your next attack, affecting all of your attacks, meaning it's just a free +4 proficiency or whatever. Rather, the above makes the spell less impactful the stronger you get, but more useful during those early levels where you're missing all the time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •