Beware of Bites!

[Snowblaze]

Yo, Crazy One, if your power is the same as Recruitment: if you know of one Monster, then each night you could scry them again to gain extra lives, right? I realize that's not great for hunting the Evils, but having someone with some NK immunity could be a good boon. (You should privately confirm that's the case with Valmark before acting on it, if you want to act on it.)

The OP indicates that won't work - nightkill immunity doesn't stack, so they'd have to get nightkilled and survive before they could gain immunity again.

[JeenLeen]

The OP indicates that won't work - nightkill immunity doesn't stack, so they'd have to get nightkilled and survive before they could gain immunity again.

Ah. I had missed that. +1 towncred to Snowblaze for clarifying.

Although it was an honest mistake, I understand if it looks wolfy that I encouraged something that limits wolf-hunting based on misinfo. Hope it doesn't persuade too many from trusting me.

[JeenLeen]

It's time for JeenLeen's last-minute reveal of stuff in case I die, hopefully so close to Night's end that the wolves can't react to it

Spoiler

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My reads on folk

Spoiler

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bc56, Snowblaze, Logan1996: not much read. Could be wolf, could be town.

AvatarVecna: pretty sure they're the Lycan. Either Apogee, Bunny of Faith, or I can explain why, whichever one of us is alive. But I hope she's dead by Daybreak.
If she's Town, FoS on Bunny or Apogee.

Cao: I get a wolfish feeling, but that's really just lingering feelings from the JWL vs. RA voting. They made a vote manipulator claim to me, and a role-claim, that's believable. I'm still kinda undecided about them. Not CEO; targets someone and they lose their vote/change it to his.
Though maybe it's actually a Human Evil role, but if the mime was Town, who can tell :P

Unavenger: I haven't done much analysis, but others say he's Towny. No reason to think otherwise. But he'd be with the earlier list of 'no reads' if not for others' comments.
gac3: Town. Holding off on why, but they can post my QuickTopic with them if I'm dead to defend themselves if they become a lynch target
rogue_alchemist: Town, or playing me really well. Hopefully someone can and will indepedently verify this due to their secondary power. Gac3 might also be able to confirm them, if he targeted them this Night.
Apogee1: Town. No solid proof, but really makes sense via QT chat.
Book Wombat: uncounterclaimed Cop. Just remember to lynch them if the voider/vigilante Cop dies.
CAVEAT: it's possible one or more bussed JWL as a going-to-autolynch and/or is a good manipulator/schemer, but I doubt it. If AV flips town, minor suspicion on Apogee (but, like, really minor)

Elenna: neutral. Seems willing to work with Town for now.
Bunny of Faith: town-allied neutral. Monster (sometimes will show as Human to the Crazy One's scrys), but Town.

FYI: I asked Elenna to bane me tonight. She said she might, but later told me she got a better offer and wasn't baning anybody. Please don't lynch her as a wolf or wolf-ally for lying about that. But if she baned AV, then I think she's wolf or wolf-allied.
I'm hoping the Redempted/Redeemed Cultist will give her 2 power uses as payment for staying loyal to Town, if indeed she is loyal.

Also, I admit I've been kinda lazy. I reckon there is good material to analyze Snowblaze or Unavenger, but I just haven't done it.

Other Stuff

Spoiler: some analysis AV did, in response to the question 'who do you think the wolves will kill'

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Wolf target priority is based on keeping things as chaotic for town as possible, making it difficult to suss out wolves. It's similar thinking in regards to picking scry targets:

1) Wolves want living players to all be risky to trust. It's easier to look townie if all the townies look wolfy. And more to the point, if there's a particular player who town collectively refuses to lynch on principle, that's one less person they can try and point out wolfy stuff in. This is why claiming seer publicly is usually an awful idea that's only done as a last resort - it makes it too easy for wolves to take out an important power role, but also it keeps town from being able to rally around a nexus. (The counterpoint: if there's a player everybody trusts based on reads but not powers, and that player is still alive too far into the game, they're probably a wolf in sheep's clothing).

2) Wolves don't want dangerous players. Frequently ITP, this amounts to "active players". Players who are really experienced at the game can brush past the BS and get to the root of scumminess hidden beneath the surface. Killing them off early is bad strategy for building community (discourages good players from playing, and thus showing off how fun WW can be), but is good tactics for winning a game - if all that's left is the newbs, it's easier for wolves to pull the strings. Active players are also just as a rule more dangerous than inactive players, by virtue of their activity (although separately, dangerous players also tend to be more active...except kgato, but that's not relevant in this game :P). This is why Midwest saw active players die off until it was just wolves and low-activity players. This is why Aventine died N1 in Villains/BoB, and it's why I died N2 in Villains. This is why WW Main's meme section includes things like "if shadow lives to D3, he's a wolf". Good players that live too long have been left alive by the wolves on purpose.

I might die tonight because of point 2, and my usual strategy to avoid that is to look super-suspicious (to the point that 1 overrides 2). This is explicitly why I died N2 in Villains, because wolves thought Aventine was as dangerous and more trusted than me.

You might die tonight because of point 2. I'm not in a position to say how much people generally trust you, I think it's mixed, but your public performance has looked pretty towny so you're definitely not a bad kill for point 1 reasons either.

Unavenger might die tonight. They haven't been the most active player, but they can get some pretty good analysis, they've publicly soft-claimed (as well as publicly called out somebody as helping them N1, and thanking them), and everybody thinks they're town. Nobody is going to suggest Unavenger get lynched, which means Unavenger either gets brought to the endgame by the wolves, or (if they're too dangerous for that) gets NK'd before then.

[Redacted] and Book Wombat are the cops, with the latter having claimed publicly. Either one might be targeted tonight, because either one dying turns the other into a (temporary) wolf asset. If [Redacted] dies, we should just kill Book Wombat tomorrow. If Book Wombat dies, we'll have to have a public discussion about whether leaving a vigilante who has to kill every night alive is pro-town or anti-town (in a "definitely kill one townie" vs "maybe kill a bunch of townies" kinda choice).

Beyond that, maybe one of the inactive players? bc56, Bunny of Faith, and Logan1996 are still all flying super-under-the-radar without having publicly claimed. But they're clearly still active, so they're invested in the game. Wolves would at least be considering killing one of them.

Spoiler: thoughts based on AV's writing

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If Unavenger or Book Wombat die, that's some evidence against AV being a wolf. I think she's a wolf and mixing truth and lies, but I doubt she'd tell me the wolves' actual target as a high-likelihood one (unless it's me). Not much thought about if bc56 or Logan1996 die to the wolves. But I notice she's quiet about Snowblaze, Apogee, gac3, and rogue_alchemist and didn't mention at all rogue_alchemist's intention to claim. That's suspicious to me, if she's wolf, and moreso if one of them ends up being the night-kill. (I'm not surprised about her quiet about Cao, since I already told her I suspect him as wolf.)

If Book Wombat dies and we killed a wolf tonight, I think keeping the vigilante is a good idea. We have probably killed at least half the wolves, so we have more leniency on some misaimed NKs. If AV died but flips Town... well, that's less good, but I think a vigilante in a strong network could still do a lot of good.

Spoiler: A couple QTs I want to share

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Bunny of Faith: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/vZzNALPcZdg
Cao the Cape: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/jjsiMRa6DAnDD

I'll lastly note that I don't like that basically nobody I'm networked with (besides Bunny of Faith and maybe Unavenger) has told me who they are targeting. But here's hoping that's just reasonable paranoia on their part about trusting me too much.

[Valmark]

Night Two END.

Checking Actions...

[Snowblaze]

This is far more nerve-wracking than last time. I don't want to die.

[Valmark]

During the night, an arrest was made. The detective was feeling pretty smug about that, even, as they brought the subject in- so much that they didn't bother taking protection, so sure of themselves. A black figure jumped out of an alley, their shape twisting and breaking as long claws grew out of it and fur covered its ten feet tall body. It took only a swipe- the detective never stood a chance.

Logan1996 died. They were the Doubting Detective.

Spoiler: Role PM

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You are the Doubting Detective, a Town Human role. You believe in reality, not tall tales! But your buddy seems to believe in them, and you won't abandon them.
Each Night, pick a target. You can bring'em in, stopping them from making any action that Night. In addition, you start in contact with the Trusting Detective and if they die you lose your power and gain the power to kill someone each night: you MUST use it.

The Lycanthrop was feeling very smug, licking their claws from the blood when they felt a voice behind them.
Turning, they saw some random person only vaguely familiar. The Lycanthrop shrugged and jumped- what was their fault if idiots wanted to die? Or so it should have been. They looked down, confused at how claws were piercing their chest while the Werewolf grew in size, almost matching the Lycanthrop. Almost. They fought, teeth for teeth, claws for claws, at the end only the Werewolf remaining with a defiant roar, walking away from the Lycanthrop's broken form staggeringly and falling down after only a few steps. They let out a satisfied sigh, closing their eyes.

AvatarVecna died. They were the Lycanthrop.

Spoiler: Role PM

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You are the Lycanthrop, an Evil Monster. Thanks to the pact you made, you climbed at the top of the food chain becoming the king of beasts- now with claws as long as human arms and a thirst for battle, you roar in defiance against anything that would challenge you.
You can only die at the hands of a Monster or Improved Human during Night Phase, and your aggressor dies too. If you die due to a Day Lynch, one of the voters dies too. In addition, once in the whole game you can perform an unblockable kill (this substitutes the standard Evils' kill)

Bunny of Faith died. They were the Werewolf.

Spoiler: Role PM

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You are the Werewolf, a Neutral Monster role. You are the only survivor of an attack from the Lycanthrop- which left you scarred and cursed. You became a monster that can't resist the call of the moon, a monster thirsty for human meat. But you decided, as long as you can still hang on your sanity, that you are going to make it PAY.
Each night you get a random power out of the following:

-You can choose a target and discover if they are the Lycanthrop or not, you appear as Human if someone scries you.
-You can check if somebody is the Lycanthrop or kill them, you appear as Human or Monster depending on your choice
-You can only kill somebody, you appear as Monster
-You MUST kill somebody, you appear as Monster.

The more you go on without killing, the easier it is for you to get the third and fourth pick, the probability resets to normal when you do kill someone.
You win by dying after the Lycanthrop does.

Wow, was this a bloodbath.

BEGIN DAY 3

It'll end in 48 hours.

QTs with night's results will be updated now.

[Snowblaze]

...can I vote for AvatarVecna? No?

In that case, Book Wombat pretty clearly needs to die.

And note to self to never trust AV again, no matter what. You planned this on purpose, didn't you, so we can't policy-lynch you next game?

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Well, Book Wombat to start. Will have a real post later this morning.

[JeenLeen]

Bunny of Faith bravely fought the Lycan, and they slew each other. Let us honor her fulfilling her win condition and destroying the Evil AvatarVecna.

And... now we gotta lynch Book Wombat, since they just became a wolf, right?

- - - Updated - - -

Add-on: between Apogee, Bunny, and I, figured out AV was likely the Lycan.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Bunny of Faith bravely fought the Lycan, and they slew each other. Let us honor her fulfilling her win condition and destroying the Evil AvatarVecna.

And... now we gotta lynch Book Wombat, since they just became a wolf, right?

- - - Updated - - -

Add-on: between Apogee, Bunny, and I, figured out AV was likely the Lycan.

If we have any leads on other Evils with powers, they'd be better to kill than Book (who assumidly joins team Evil with no powers).

And, since it's public anyway, my ability went through last night, so Elena's vote counts in the same place as me. Still reading over stuff to do an analysis.

[JeenLeen]

We've lost our baner, voider, and watcher (as the watcher just became a wolf). That's bad. The wolves are free to choose their targets and we can't stop them. I'm going to try to figure out who we can trust. I figure we should start a new core over somebody trusted, but that puts a big bullet on them, and everyone left claim to them.

I know my towncore thread is now compromised, as Book Wombat was in it.
AV's towncore thread (of which I was never a part) is obviously suspect as the wolves likely have intel on it if not being part of it.

To those of you not in QT with me: I'd appreciate if you send me one, if you want to try to coordinate.

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FYI: the main reason we thought AV was a wolf was she let something slip about a CEO role before she could have known about, at least from anyone but JWL.
It was probably a slip that she mentioned the 1-shot unblockable, and she forgot that wasn't on the recruitment thread.
And, as AV is likely to get lynched/die early because she's AV, I could see her using a 1-shot unblockable on N1; which explains why Aventine died.
I also thought she'd just be amused at talking about "everyone but the Lycan claimed to me" while being the Lycan.

[rogue_alchemist]

So I've been hinting that I could pretty easily prove my town alignment with a secondary power. I tried to use it last night to confirm my town status and was blocked. The wolves could have done it pretty easily, but in full disclosure I have only been in contact with JeenLeen about the specifics of using my power. I am not saying they are scummy, just getting info out there for full analysis. I mean we have a claimed roll that we know is going to flip, so it only makes sense to take care of known problems, though it helps the wolves that they lost a player and gained a player in the same night (effectively). So Book Wombat for lynching today.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

So I've been hinting that I could pretty easily prove my town alignment with a secondary power. I tried to use it last night to confirm my town status and was blocked.

How were you blocked? The Wolves lost their partial voider, leaving Elenna or town voider to block you. I have no idea why Town voider would block you if you were going to be proven town...

So was it a block from Elena? Or is there another Evil voider?

[Apogee1]

Book Wombat

Big FoS on Rogue_Alchemist here

[bc56]

Nuke Book Wombat from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

In the meantime, the crazy one better get to scanning, although I'm a little uncertain if their answers will be accurate. We know there's a town monster role, so there could be a wolf human role. Still, any monsters detected from here on out should be suspect.

[rogue_alchemist]

How were you blocked? The Wolves lost their partial voider, leaving Elenna or town voider to block you. I have no idea why Town voider would block you if you were going to be proven town...

So was it a block from Elena? Or is there another Evil voider?

No idea how I could be blocked, though it does make me look rather wolfy for no being able to prove I'm town, so would play into their hands perfectly. Likely they have another voider or Elenna was trying to prove herself to someone else by using her power on me. Since today is pretty well a lock, we will have to see what the night holds to be able to vote tomorrow. It doesn't hurt to go ahead and talk through patterns and suspicions, just know that the wolves will see everything here and if we aren't acting on it today, it only gives them more info to mess up our future plans with their night actions tonight. I am not suggesting we don't talk and do analysis today, just want everyone to be mindful of what they say and not go into super analysis mode trying to suggest actions for tomorrow in public (if you have a towncore QT, I would suggest talking there.)

[JeenLeen]

So I've been hinting that I could pretty easily prove my town alignment with a secondary power. I tried to use it last night to confirm my town status and was blocked. The wolves could have done it pretty easily, but in full disclosure I have only been in contact with JeenLeen about the specifics of using my power. I am not saying they are scummy, just getting info out there for full analysis. I mean we have a claimed roll that we know is going to flip, so it only makes sense to take care of known problems, though it helps the wolves that they lost a player and gained a player in the same night (effectively). So Book Wombat for lynching today.

How were you blocked? The Wolves lost their partial voider, leaving Elenna or town voider to block you. I have no idea why Town voider would block you if you were going to be proven town...

So was it a block from Elena? Or is there another Evil voider?

Book Wombat

Big FoS on Rogue_Alchemist here

Yeah... Sorry, rogue_alchemist, but this looks really bad. I know I've backed you thus far in the game, but I'm starting to think you're a wolf hiding as a town. (And great job if so! You lasted longer than AV before being found out!)

I could see things not working out N1, but a N2 void means the Town Cop did it; or Elenna, I guess. Which seems supremely odd considering you mentioned explicitly what you were planning to do; no reason a Cop would, and Elenna would know that'd put her as a wolf-ally and give us reason to kill her. So no good reason for them to void that. Unfortunately, we can't trust Book Wombat's testimony about who the deceased voided in order to defend you.

In fact, one scenario for N1 had me voided and you still redirecting me as promised in order to give you towncred without me being able to gather any intel on who killed Aventine.

Oh--and I told AV my power, so the wolves know, so everyone else might as well know.
Each night I target someone; if they die, I learn the killer.
I targeted rogue_alchemist N1, but was supposedly redirected to Aventine; as I was voided, I didn't get to learn who I would have targeted.
N2 I targeted rogue_alchemist, figuring the wolves might kill him for planning to claim via a power.

- - - Updated - - -

No idea how I could be blocked, though it does make me look rather wolfy for no being able to prove I'm town, so would play into their hands perfectly. Likely they have another voider or Elenna was trying to prove herself to someone else by using her power on me. Since today is pretty well a lock, we will have to see what the night holds to be able to vote tomorrow. It doesn't hurt to go ahead and talk through patterns and suspicions, just know that the wolves will see everything here and if we aren't acting on it today, it only gives them more info to mess up our future plans with their night actions tonight. I am not suggesting we don't talk and do analysis today, just want everyone to be mindful of what they say and not go into super analysis mode trying to suggest actions for tomorrow in public (if you have a towncore QT, I would suggest talking there.)

Since you were voided, can you still use your claim power tonight? Was it used up even thought it wasn't "used"?

- - - Updated - - -

or Improved Human

So "Improved Human"s are a thing. That's new info.

- - - Updated - - -

Last Thought on RA: there could be a wolf jack-of-all-trades who had a 1-use void. Tonight would have been a good time to use it, I admit.


Current Thoughts on Potential Wolves

The only people I don't have any intel on are bc56 and Snowblaze. Them and Cao are my main wolf candidates. (Cao has been straightforward in our QuickTopic, but just something still feels off.) Though it could be that Elenna and/or rogue_alchemist are fooling me.

But I kinda doubt Elenna is a wolf since I told her enough to make AV suspect I was planning her death; I tried to keep it hidden in our QuickTopic, but I think AV could have figured it out if she had access and enough time to thin it over. On the other hand, AV might not have cared if I was planning her death given her role's retributive-kill.

For rogue_alchemist, maybe something can be done tonight to exonerate or incriminate him. (That discussion should be done privately where the wolves can't hear.) At least one good thing about our "best" powers being dead is that the wolf redirector-vortexer can't make us hurt each other with them

[Elenna]

FWIW I didn't use my block last night. I also didn't target rogue_alchemist at all.

More details later (maybe). If it helps, I acted last night based on the suggestion of someone I'm 95% sure is town. (On a related note, I have yet to receive contact from someone I think is likely to be a wolf. Besides AV, obviously, but it's not like AV told me they were a wolf.)

[JeenLeen]

Would the real Redempted Cultist PM me and tell me who they targeted N1 and N2?
I've got claims on who received your buff each night, and I'd like to verify the receivers as well as know who you are. Soon after that, I should have a solid towncore of the majority of the players.

[Unavenger]

SCREW THIS!

Can confirm that at least one of the roles is in there unaltered, though.

Uh, yeah, I can't really be bothered to RVS because it's always just performative and stuff. Nah, I thought I'd mention something useful and also commit to at least a partial claim instead. A bit of assurance that I can fall back on late-game, you know?

I guess it's not necessarily completely useless to RVS? Still, I prefer to wait and poke people who aren't participating.

Come to think of it, I'm surprised that JWL and Logan aren't posting. Really, I normally think of them as normally being fairly active players. Although, it's still early, but I guess I should make a move. Zeroing in on some target or other, I guess I'll vote JoyWonderLove. You feel like talking some more for us?

(Oh, didn't realise JWL was being voted for already. Never mind, I'll vote Logan1996 as another poke. Easy enough.)

The wolves already know everything for a variety of reasons, so I have to put my cards on the table. Gac3 is a human, and CaomhinTheCape is town. I have claims from everyone except for one of you: bc56. Please claim or die. We don't have time for this any more.

[Apogee1]

SCREW THIS!



The wolves already know everything for a variety of reasons, so I have to put my cards on the table. Gac3 is a human, and CaomhinTheCape is town. I have claims from everyone except for one of you: bc56. Please claim or die. We don't have time for this any more.

You have a claim from me?

I've only claimed to two people, and one was a wolf and the other I don't think told you.

[Unavenger]

You have a claim from me?

I've only claimed to two people, and one was a wolf and the other I don't think told you.

Yes, I have a claim from you, care of JeenLeen. Not all of these claims are direct. EDIT: If you want to tell me something different from what JeenLeen told me, now's the time.

[Apogee1]

ALSO: If you are in this game and have received a PM mentioning the CEO in any capacity, or heard of the roll prior to JWL flipping, please PM me and say that you have heard of it

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, I have a claim from you, care of JeenLeen. Not all of these claims are direct.

Ok that's good then!

[Snowblaze]

Basically 99% sure rogue_alchemist is a wolf at this point, and I'd be willing to bet on bc56 being the last one by process of elimination.

In other news, anyone remember that conversation between me and AV when I accused them of spreading misinformation by saying the Lycanthrope had an unblockable kill?

Well, turns out they were actually telling the truth!

[CaoimhinTheCape]

In other news, anyone remember that conversation between me and AV when I accused them of spreading misinformation by saying the Lycanthrope had an unblockable kill?

Oh, I have some gems from my convo with AV along those lines - I'm sure I got a laugh out of them. Might post some of them later.

Gonna hold off on any analysis, given people seem to have solved this.

[Apogee1]

Basically 99% sure rogue_alchemist is a wolf at this point, and I'd be willing to bet on bc56 being the last one by process of elimination.

In other news, anyone remember that conversation between me and AV when I accused them of spreading misinformation by saying the Lycanthrope had an unblockable kill?

Well, turns out they were actually telling the truth!

Yeah this is one of the big points of evidence Jeen and I were talking about last night when trying to deduce if AV was a wolf.

- - - Updated - - -

Also remember regardless of who the last wolf or two are, we know Wombat is one right now and need to eliminate them today!

[Snowblaze]

I probably would have got a lot more paranoid a lot sooner if they hadn't fed me a story about actually being a town-aligned Beast role and trying to get lynched so they could take a wolf down with them.

[Apogee1]

SCREW THIS!



The wolves already know everything for a variety of reasons, so I have to put my cards on the table. Gac3 is a human, and CaomhinTheCape is town. I have claims from everyone except for one of you: bc56. Please claim or die. We don't have time for this any more.

If you are the crazy one as per the top post, how do you know Cao is town?

[bc56]

SCREW THIS!



The wolves already know everything for a variety of reasons, so I have to put my cards on the table. Gac3 is a human, and CaomhinTheCape is town. I have claims from everyone except for one of you: bc56. Please claim or die. We don't have time for this any more.

It's pretty hard to claim to any of you when you don't contact me in private.
The only person who did was AV, and I didn't trust her enough to give a reply. That turned out to be a wise decision, because I am the Vampire Spawn. In short, I am to another wolf role (the vampire) what Bunny of Faith (the werewolf) was to AV (the lycanthrope). I am a town monster role that gets a random passive ability each night, between nightkill immune, scrying as human, and learning the identities of anyone who targets me.
I suspect that by revealing this, the vampire will make me a target.

[Unavenger]

If you are the crazy one as per the top post, how do you know Cao is town?

Redempted cultist buffs.

EDIT: Additional info is being updated in my next post, so I'm taking this out for clarity.