Beware of Bites!

[gac3]

Town Reads
Unavenger: Acting totally different than when they are a wolf. More consistent with their normal behavior.
Jeenleen: As previously stated, the unique views conversation has convinced me they are town. This logic does not apply to anyone who responded to their questions however.
Apogee: this one surprised me. Posts strategies that wolves wouldn't want pointed out. Much like jeenleen

Neutral Reads
Elenna: I know some people seem to doubt this claim but I don't see how it couldn't be true. Valmark only gave one example neutral. I see no reason why they wouldn't be used. There has been no counter claim to my knowledge. So I'm believinn if.
Rogue_alchemist: An example of someone who says what I say but doesn't get the suspicion I do. Been quiet today despite being fairly active yesterday. May just be the weekend. They are more neutral than null right now because I feel for them being both sides rather than neither.

Null Reads
Logan: not active
Bookwombat: not active
Gac3: gut and role QT says he is town, but he acts sketchy apparently
Avatar Vecna: Killed Aventine. Networking. Gave me vague sourceless information. Clearly doesn't trust me. As normal I assume town mainly because I don't know how to handle it if not.
Snowblaze: the dangerous thing about snowblaze is that they don't typically act differently whether wolf or town. I have no bead on them.
JoyWonderLove: little info. Acting different than normal. Claims real life reasons.
Cape: rereading posts and hearing Cape ask the whole "did anybody gget role blocked" question and then we had the whole role blocking stuff, makes my gut want to scream "wolf" but my brain says it's a logical point to bring up.
Bunny: Not much to go off of. New. Had a sentence defending themself that I assume was some kind of typing error. "My lack of commentary is mostly due to not being garbage at reading people." Taken literally means they are good at reading people and don't want to share but I assume that was an accident.
Bc56: pretty sure this is the most active they have been.

Dead:
Lord Athos
Avetine me



Btw: what is NAGL and AGI

[Snowblaze]

I'm dangerous? I'll take that as a compliment, I guess!

Anyway, does this mean you think rogue_alchemist is a neutral as opposed to just not knowing if they're town or wolf? And if so, can you explain what makes you think that?

I have more analysis to do. Why am I doing this to myself?

@Logan1996, explanation would be appreciated if it's the sort of information that can safely be revealed in public.

- - - Updated - - -

Snowblaze: town. Honestly. Not suspicious at all. Brain in agony from too much analysis combined with complex numbers.

Book Wombat: can you post more please? It's kind of hard to read someone who won't post. Mildly suspicious because the Athos vote could have been defending JWL.

NAGL is "not a good look", at least I presume so from context. I don't know the other one.

(I'm starting to see where AV is coming from with their crusade against inactivity...)

[Bunny of Faith]

Spoiler: Bunny of Faith ISO

Show

D1 randvote. Null.

Claims to be experienced but rusty. Might be genuine towny warning that she's shaking off rust, might be wolf covering for bad plays. Null.

Null. Although too many posts "just asking questions about basic game mechanics" might be a wolf trying to look more active than they really are.

Null. NAI.

Could be legit confusion, could be defending RA for some reason. Null.

Null. Just a rule clarification.

Doesn't have strong feelings about any of the wagons, at least not enough to change their vote to break the tie. Could be they're a wolf fine with any of the wagons dying cuz they're all town, could be a wolf not wanting to tip their hand by defending a scumbuddy so obviously. Null.

Null. NAI.

Null. Empty of content.

Null. Rule clarification.

Wolf lean. Yeah it's possible your reads are garbage. It's possible your reads are on point. Most likely they're in-between. But even the worst reader should still share their reads because it helps us see your thought process, analyze how you're coming to conclusions and assigning votes. There's no reason not to share. Well, no reason if you're a townie. I could see a rusty townie posting like this, and if that's all this is, I'm glad to do my part in helping you shake off the rust.

Weak town lean for calling Apogee out on some of their weirdness.

Bunny of Faith: -1
High quantity, low quality. There's tons being said but nothing to analyze or talk about. Not flying under the radar in the same sense as bc56, but I can definitely see what Aventine was saying about this slot: this is exactly the kind of behavior I could see coming from a rusty wolf who's trying to play safe. Post your reads - even if they're bad, it can still help town get a feel for you, see if your thoughts are legit or if you sound like you're making up stuff that sounds legit.

Sidenote, but "High quantity, low quality" made me laugh as an unrelated-to-werewolf read.

I'll also just clarify your first point as well, but 'Claims to be experienced but rusty' is not the right way to read that. It's more accurate to say inexperienced and rusty.

Also also: Flipping = I assume that's dying and having your role revealed? Googling around didn't help with this one, just want to make sure.

Anyhow, I'll be writing this in order of the list on the front page, and haven't read any of your own reads on people before posting this except my own in order to not have it colour my opinion too much. I'll be reading them after this, though! In order of the list on the front page:

Spoiler: I can read!

Show

Unavenger: Weirdly (to me) defensive day one about potentially getting lynched with I think nobody pointing them at that point? It seems suspect to me but if you couple his post aimed at Elenna with his claim of being one of the example roles, it seems fairly likely he's the Trusting Cop if he's above board. No other example role would be able to provide information D1 that would let someone know for certain they're helping out town, like providing the identity of the Doubting Cop would. Also, just as likely they were targetted by a role that's not an example one, but their most recent post could mean that the Redeemed Cultist paid them a visit last night.

Rogue_alchemist: Not that experienced? No clear read, I don't think they've posted enough for me to form a solid opinion, which probably means they need to do something like this as well.

Snowblaze: Doing some analysis stuff, which speaks to me as someone more experienced with the game versus town/wolf. Messed up a vote count, so obviously the devil incarnate. No clear read either, I'd like to think town but I dunno.

Book Wombat: Uh, one post? I checked AV's opinion on them and presuming they're honest about not having spoken to them much, that's either a point towards Wombat being suspicious for not engaging with AV, or a point towards AV being suspicious because Wombat's not engaging with them. Or they're inactive.

[b]JeenLeen[b]: Experienced! I assume. I'm sort of conflicted, because while I have strong suspicions that they are town, knowing that they know what they're doing leads me to believe that they could also just be a very good wolf and are misleading everyone effectively.

AvatarVecna: So I've never played with AV before and did some poking around to get other opinions on how they play because it's sort of relevant, what with the whole messaging everyone D1 thing. I'm having to assume they're town because things are going quite badly if they're not, but I have this image in my head of someone looming above the town cackling maniacally as everyone dances to their tune when I think about what they're doing that I can't shake, proooobably being paranoid though?
Also, they merc'd someone night one with a supposedly single use power. Possible that since it was single use that Aventine protected themselves but AV's shot could just punch through vs any other kill bouncing off. But they'd have admitted to that, I guess? Kinda makes sense they shot so early if they expected to die that night, though.

Lord Athos: Much wow, such dead.

bc56: Reads rogue_alchemist as town? With the few posts available I wonder if they're in cahoots, but it's more speculation than anything. I don't read RA in as much detail as they seem to, they could be reading into things too much, but it's possible if bc56 is town then they've got some knowledge on RA, such as RA being town but a monster or has a particularly wolf-sounding role name, which seems uncommon based on the example roles (need to stop using those for the basis of opinions). Or they're wolf friends?

gac3: I don't know. They're active! Maybe reserve judgement 'til I see their own big ol' opinion post, could be anything to me.

Apogee1: Potentially town? But discussing the wagon stuff while being a wolf isn't that weird, if they knew that a wolf wasn't up for the chop that day. Lots of posts, looks experienced. Reads the AV vigilante situation weirdly though, so I dunno. It's a strange situation on the whole, so hard to get a good read. Don't know, doesn't lean strongly either way but probably more likely town than not from my perspective.

Elenna: Aight, so. What happens if she's not the real Playful Spirit? If the real one doesn't claim, the wolves have a slight chance that they'll end up killing the 'real' one, if they exist because Val did say some might have been removed, which would almost certainly get Elenna lynched because why would you claim something like that as a town unless there's a benefit to you being killed? And even then there's other ways to go about it.

JoyWonderLove: Uncertain read, nothing here really tells me anything. Voting for them as of my last post because JeenLeen's a strong enough town lead for me to sit on the JWL wagon and see what comes of it, and if JWL happens to be a townie then it adds to my concern they're just a very good wolf. (This didn't end up talking about JWL much, oops. Not sure what to say about them though.)

Aventine: f

Bunny of Faith: Does this look like a face that could commit atrocious acts of evil? I think not.

CaoimhinTheCape: Being active and posting opinions, so that's cool. Town? Doesn't strike me as a wolf, but it's only a gut feeling at this point.

Logan1996: Uno posto, so I dunno. Someone to poke at along with Wombat, with all the silence.

Aight, now to go read the rest of the thread since my vote.

- - - Updated - - -

Got some conflicting information from AvatarVecna. Not sure if it was a wolf slip or what.

Share with the class?

Bunny: Not much to go off of. New. Had a sentence defending themself that I assume was some kind of typing error. "My lack of commentary is mostly due to not being garbage at reading people." Taken literally means they are good at reading people and don't want to share but I assume that was an accident.

Yes, this was a typo. I am garbage at reading people, as you may now judge for yourself in the above post.

Double edit: I didn't mean to edit this in and this was supposed to be in a different post, did the forum just auto-update that for me?

[Book Wombat]

I've rather inactive due to my inexperience in Werewolf and wanted to observe for a bit. I want to see what happens so I'm going to claim that I'm the Trusting Cop.
Last night I used my power on rogue_alchemist and found out that they targeted Aventine and JeenLeen, JeenLeen was roleblocked and Aventine died and the Doubting Cop didn't target them so r_a might have something to do with that.
If no other explanation comes up I vote for rogue_alchemist.

[Snowblaze]

...I'm going to need to make a list of public claims now, aren't I?

It's less painful than analysis, at any rate.

- - - Updated - - -

Ta-da! Hoping I didn't miss anything:
AvatarVecna claims to be a one-shot vigilante who shot Aventine last night.

Elenna claims to be the Playful Spirit, and to have tried to redirect bc56 onto AvatarVecna but been roleblocked.

JeenLeen claims to have been roleblocked, and also to have been contacted by someone who claimed JoyWonderLove roleblocked JeenLeen, and thirdly that AvatarVecna told them that the Doubting Cop roleblocked Elenna.

Book Wombat claims to be the Trusting Cop and to have seen rogue_alchemist visiting Aventine and JeenLeen.

Unavenger claims to be one of the roles in the original post of the recruitment thread.

[rogue_alchemist]

Spoiler: rogue_alchemist ISO

Show

Weak town lean for calling out gac's weird early post.



Weak town lean for arguing in favor of D1 discussion (which I'm admittedly biased about), but then reframing the reasoning behind his vote to look like it actually had reasoning (as Snowblaze called them out on).



Null. This explanation makes sense, but the reframing still bugs me.



Weak wolf lean for arguing against getting their own posts analyzed later even though they acknowledged the usefulness of D1 discussion for the purpose of analysis. I think it's not as much a smoking gun as Aventine did, but then I was wrong about Aventine in general, so might be more here.



Null...on its own.



This is 18 hours after the previous post. Long sleep, I guess. But also I really don't like how they just screwed off until the Night after getting called out and stammering out a weird defense. Wolf lean.



Null. Anybody could've posted this.



Weak town lean for contributing to the QT discussion.

rogue_alchemist: +0/Null
The good and bad balance out, but there's not really that much to work with here. RA not being here for the EoD1 looks weird, and not posting yet on D2 even though we're ~18 hours in also isn't a good look. Just one more person who needs to contribute a whole lot more.

Well.


Okay, letÂ’s analyse people who arenÂ’t AV. This may be slightly less painful, but my brain is hurting a great deal so I doubt it. IÂ’m confident enough in my townread on Unavenger to skip them and move on to rogue_alchemist.

Starts with an RNG vote and a FOS on gac3, although itÂ’s unclear how serious said suspicion was. Then the post that initially attracts my suspicions. I donÂ’t see any reason to suspect Elenna other than that if she could get the real Spirit on her side it would be an excellent fake-claim for a wolf. IÂ’ll save most of those thoughts for when I get to Elenna, though.

Anyway, I stand by my earlier belief that calling an RNG vote “gut” is kind of odd. Then there’s messaging JeenLeen to start a towncore. Rogue_alchemist has literally no reason to trust JeenLeen at this point. If he’s town he’s taking a risk for very little reason. I’m not really a fan of the next post, either. I mean, I can kind of see why you’d want to not be suspected, but... the way to avoid suspicion isn’t to not take any stance in anything, it’s to prove your innocence by helping to find wolves.

Conclusions: that scum read just got a lot stronger in re-reading. In fact, rogue_alchemist.

Also, when you show up and post, a friendly reminder to answer AVÂ’s question on top three wolf and town reads.

I have explained this in the last game (EVWW) that I am not really available on weekends. I have a family that requires a lot of my attention (under 3 year olds involved) and I am so tired that I have trouble getting on at night to do any serious analysis. I am responding to let everyone know why I am so quiet now. However I can prove I am town tonight if I survive. I made a gambit with JeenLeen last night to redirect her powers (I am a vortexer). However she claims to have been roleblocked both here and in the QT. Now I did redirect her powers to target Aventine, so if she has some kind of kill power, then I was duped into targeting her at Aventine, but that seems extremely unlikely to me. AV apparently spied on me to see that I targeted JeenLeen and Aventine, so they can back me up on at least getting some details right. I only got feedback that I successfully redirected JeenLeen's target, but not that her power activated or what it was. Apparently that is all I get to know. However I have a secondary power that I can use to prove I am town to someone. I just have to find who to trust and who everyone else would trust afterwards too. I'm sorry if this is rambling and not making sense, but I am very tired. The scum read on me seems to be linked to my relative abscence on D2 compared to D1 and now you know why. I will be able to check in again about an hour or so before the day ends tomorrow and post as much as needed then.

For now I think JoyWonderLove seems the most likely suspect to me.

As for my reads. I posted this to AV last night in the QT:
Town:
JeenLeen (private QT chats confirming somethings tonight)
AV (Been doing good analysis to Town Consumption later)
Snowblaze (though I know she can be devious, she reads honest and consistent to me)

SCUM:
Elenna (too many vortexers that I've come across and she feels like she was trying to get a claim out before anyone else)
CaoimhinTheCape (because he is playing very much like he did in EVWW and he was wolf there)
gac3 (he seems to be throwing a lot of suspicion and vague threats and unhelpful confusion around)

I'll add that in reading everyone else's analysis I am convinced to stop going after Elenna (which would be very OMGUS right now anyways) and to poke JWL. LIke I said I won't be much active for the rest of the day, I"ll try to check in in about 14 hours and then again about an hour before this day ends. Sorry if that makes me suspicious.

[Snowblaze]

I’m not suspecting you for being inactive. I’m suspecting you for other reasons. For instance:
“I think JoyWonderLove seems the most likely suspect to me”.
“I am convinced to stop going after Elenna and poke JWL.”

So, is JWL your top suspect or not? (Generally, pokevotes aren’t on people who already have four votes on them, but that might just be me.)

Also not really a fan of your townreads on me and AV: I don’t think I’ve done anything publicly that I couldn’t fake as a wolf, and trying to read AV is a bad idea. I say that as someone who’s tried and mostly failed today. Plus your townreads are the very three people on your wagon end of day one (well, before AV hopped off, anyway!) so it seems like you’re trying to appease us.

I don’t think you’ve played with town!Caoimhin before, so it’s a bit odd trying to read them off a sample size of one and being confident enough in it to put them as one of your top three scumreads.

(Let me know if I’m tunnelling and being overly harsh here. I feel a bit like I am, and I don’t want end up deathtunneling anyone.)

(I’m going to get sucked into more analysis, aren’t I? I really don’t have the will to live for that.)

Anyway, back in an hour or two, will make up my mind what to do with my vote and what I make of the power claim then. Can I ask your role name, rogue_alchemist?

[CaoimhinTheCape]

I was also grouped with Jeen and AV for moving votes around near the end of day? That's not true. I wasn't part of whatever that was and my votes should be able to prove that. Though I would love to know what the results were.

My apologies. Didn't mean to imply your were part of the shenanigans, just that you were someone late on the wagon and pushed it toward Lord Athos (town) rather than Joy or Rogue. Depending on their flips that could look bad, but just from standard voting stuff.



Looking at AV's ISO of me, specifically on the vote count - I've done those as both town and wolf to just help keep track of the game. Gonna keep doing them unless it, for some reason, makes me seem wolfish in every game.

Got some conflicting information from AvatarVecna. Not sure if it was a wolf slip or what.

Seconding if you could give us more info.

I've rather inactive due to my inexperience in Werewolf and wanted to observe for a bit. I want to see what happens so I'm going to claim that I'm the Trusting Cop.

For the record, please don't have the Doubting Cop claim to back this up or we immediately lose you to the Evil side.

Last night I used my power on rogue_alchemist and found out that they targeted Aventine and JeenLeen, JeenLeen was roleblocked and Aventine died and the Doubting Cop didn't target them so r_a might have something to do with that.
If no other explanation comes up I vote for rogue_alchemist.

That being said, I think we need to ask rogue_alchemist for some more info there.

SCUM:
Elenna (too many vortexers that I've come across and she feels like she was trying to get a claim out before anyone else)


I'll add that in reading everyone else's analysis I am convinced to stop going after Elenna (which would be very OMGUS right now anyways) and to poke JWL.

These two lines read very different to me. Explain why Elenna is a scum read but JWL isn't, and then you vote JWL?

I don’t think you’ve played with town!Caoimhin before...

Very few people have played with town!Caoimhin. I've played 4 games here: in Midwest I was town, 2 games where I was wolf, and Crazy Idea where I was town for all of Day 1 (before conversion to Cult).

---

Got part of a claim from rogue, but I'm not completely comfortable with it.



Vote Count
JoyWonderLove 5 (Apogee1, JeenLeen, gac3, Bunny of Faith, Rogue_alchemist)
AvatarVecna 1 (Logan1996)
Rogue_alchemist 3 (Snowblaze, Book Wombat, CaoimhinTheCape)
CaoimhinTheCape 1 (AvatarVecna)


Posted but didn't vote: Unavenger, bc56, Elenna

No posts: JoyWonderLove

[Apogee1]

Yeah I'm thinking Rogue_Alchemist has a little more explaining to do. It seems quite possible he is a wolf roleblocker who carried the kill (does a specific person carry the kill in this game? I think so because of the beast description//since strongmen are around).

- - - Updated - - -

This also reflects poorly on AV in a number of ways

- - - Updated - - -

AV apparently spied on me to see that I targeted JeenLeen and Aventine, so they can back me up on at least getting some details right.

AV can you talk about this?

[Snowblaze]

Hmm. Apogee, what makes you think this game has a strongman?

[Apogee1]

Hmm. Apogee, what makes you think this game has a strongman?

1-shot strongman is a sample role, and AV among others have speculated that all the sample roles are in the game

- - - Updated - - -

And to be clear, I didn't imply that there was a strongman in the game, just that the role pm for them implies a single wolf carries the kill

- - - Updated - - -

Although rereading my phrasing, I was not as clear as I could have been with that point and I understand why you asked

[Snowblaze]

The Lycanthrope is not a one-shot strongman. Stop listening to AV's (possibly accidental) misinformation after I have exposed it as such.

[Apogee1]

The Lycanthrope is not a one-shot strongman. Stop listening to AV's (possibly accidental) misinformation after I have exposed it as such.

Wasn't the beast a strongman? Let me check

- - - Updated - - -

WAIT THERE IS NO BEAST IN THE RECRUITMENT THREAD

Who brought that up first it looks like a slip

- - - Updated - - -

So it was AV who said exactly "The Sample Beast Role" in their analysis of Aventine

IDK that really doesn't look good

- - - Updated - - -

Well, AV is spreading misinformation - whether accidentally or on purpose, who knows? The Lycanthrope does not have an unblockable kill, contrary to what AV said. It’s the Beast role.

I am getting very paranoid about AV right now, but not paranoid enough to want them dead. Mostly hoping the wolves will do that for us!

On JoyWonderLove:
Now that Aventine is confirmed town, Apogee1’s argument for the Athos wagon being a counter holds a lot less weight. My vote to start that wagon was before JWL was under any threat and JWL shouldn’t be suspected just for a self-preservation vote at this point. That leaves only Book Wombat as suspicious under that theory.

As for the roleblock thing, I’m not a hundred percent convinced. Even if this source of yours is telling the truth, it could be that JWL is some kind of jack-of-all-trades role or a random-power role like Duck’s in EVWW who just happened to use a roleblock last night, as opposed to a full-fledged roleblocker.

Leaving my vote where it is for now, I’ll wait and see how things play out.

Wait this is also a slip? Snowblaze where have you seen the beast role?

- - - Updated - - -

If I am missing something stupid please tell me

[Snowblaze]

...seriously, AV?

The Lycanthrope is the sample wolf role. It is the Beast role. It is not a one-shot strongman.

Although I need to go and double-check this now.

- - - Updated - - -

The Lycanthrop: You are the king of beasts. When you accepted that pact, energy filled you restoring you to new vigor and beyond. With your gigantic size, muscles thick as humans and claws as long as arms you stand at the top of the food chain and anybody that tries to challenge you will NOT walk away. You can only be Night-Killed by a Monster. In addition, if you die your killer dies too- if you die for a Day-Lynch, a random voter dies too, excluding other Evils.

Here. Apparently I need some filler text too.

[Apogee1]

So you are just using Beast as a synonym for Evil...

- - - Updated - - -

And you and AV both using "Beast" (Capitalization important) to refer to one specific EVIL MONSTER role (the Lycanthrop) is just confusion? Or do you think something else is going on?

[Snowblaze]

So you are just using Beast as a synonym for Evil...

No, the Beast is a common term for a wolf role that kills someone when it dies, such as the Lycanthrope.

[Apogee1]

Oh that actually makes sense thank you I didn't know that.

I'll reevaluate this then carry on.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, AV is spreading misinformation - whether accidentally or on purpose, who knows? The Lycanthrope does not have an unblockable kill, contrary to what AV said. It’s the Beast role.

I read this as impying the "Beast" role was the strongman power instead of the Lycanthrope, not that the Lycanthrope was the Beast role. This makes a lot more sense in retrospect thank you for clarifying Snowblaze

[Book Wombat]

...so, this list was alphabetical, except for Book Wombat who got tacked on at the end. What I'm thinking is, Book Wombat didn't contact Aventine at some point during the 23 hours before he switched to voting RA. But sometime in the next 24 hours, BW contacted Aventine with a claim of some kind that convinced Aventine to back off.

Not important but I didn't contact Aventine at any point.

AV can you talk about this?

Since I claimed I guess there isn't a reason to hide this, AV should've got the info from me.

[AvatarVecna]

AV can you talk about this?

Well, I didn't want to, but...

I'm the Trusting Cop

I don't have a scry power, I'm just going off what BW told me. RA targeted Aventine and JeenLeen last night, according to Book Wombat. I asked RA for an explanation privately. Giving a public explanation is fine too I guess, although I don't appreciate how it's framed as accusing me of lying.

[Apogee1]

Since I claimed I guess there isn't a reason to hide this, AV should've got the info from me.

Good to know thanks!

[AvatarVecna]

Like seriously, the dude networking with everybody, for like the fifth game in a row, comes to you saying "Ive got info on you" and you assume they lied about their role and they're actually a watcher? Nah dude, I'm just in contact with two watcher claimants. Granted, one of them is useless, but...

...actually, that's something I'd like to be able to confirm. Did anybody target me last night?

- - - Updated - - -

Btw: what is NAGL and AGI

I'm not sure what AGI is either, and I can't see anybody use it anywhere. Can you quote the context you saw it in?

(I'm starting to see where AV is coming from with their crusade against inactivity...)

Got so many people coming out of the woodwork now that we've kicked the anthill. And it's still far less active than I'd like.

I'm not liking either of the current wagons - I think RA's vortexer explanation is reasonable, and JWL's probably AL bait at this point, so they're best left until tomorrow to lynch unless they show up to delay it by a single post (in which case, probably still lynch them tomorrow based on them trying to fly under the radar). Apogee's confusion over what the Beast role is would look wolfy most of the time, but here it looks like just being overenthusiastic and a little inexperienced. His heart's in the right place.

AvatarVecna because resolving my slot would help a lot of people, I think.

I'll look over things after my game session is over, see how things have progressed in the four hours I'm gone. Maybe I'll even see an actual reason to change my vote, who knows.

[Book Wombat]

Also, what does - - - Updated - - - mean?

[Valmark]

Also, what does - - - Updated - - - mean?

When you double post instead of making two posts the forum adds it to the previous one inserting that message in the middle. Happens only in this section of the forum though.

[JeenLeen]

I have explained this in the last game (EVWW) that I am not really available on weekends. I have a family that requires a lot of my attention (under 3 year olds involved) and I am so tired that I have trouble getting on at night to do any serious analysis. I am responding to let everyone know why I am so quiet now. However I can prove I am town tonight if I survive. I made a gambit with JeenLeen last night to redirect her powers (I am a vortexer). However she claims to have been roleblocked both here and in the QT. Now I did redirect her powers to target Aventine, so if she has some kind of kill power, then I was duped into targeting her at Aventine, but that seems extremely unlikely to me. AV apparently spied on me to see that I targeted JeenLeen and Aventine, so they can back me up on at least getting some details right. I only got feedback that I successfully redirected JeenLeen's target, but not that her power activated or what it was. Apparently that is all I get to know. However I have a secondary power that I can use to prove I am town to someone. I just have to find who to trust and who everyone else would trust afterwards too. I'm sorry if this is rambling and not making sense, but I am very tired. The scum read on me seems to be linked to my relative abscence on D2 compared to D1 and now you know why. I will be able to check in again about an hour or so before the day ends tomorrow and post as much as needed then. \

Jumping in during a pretty busy weekend to add that rogue_alchemist is saying truthfully what he and I planned. He said he could redirect my target; I told him to redirect me to Aventine. (Full honesty: first, asked him to target me to AV, but then changed my mind. He changed it before Night ended, he said.)
He told me he could verify his Town status to me somehow D2/N2, so I was willing to work with him in the meantime.

He might be a lying wolf who orchestrated things to get me roleblocked and Aventine killed; but if he were, I think AV would also have to be a wolf (based on what I told AV but didn't tell rogue_alchemist.) And that means JWL is also a wolf who worked with them.
So maybe we have a 3-team wolf reveal of JWL, rogue_alchemist, and AV, but I kinda doubt that. I still think (or maybe hope is more accurate) that AV is Town. I get a Town vibe from rogue as well; only doubting since I can't confirm much and somehow was screwed over last Night.

But AV's watcher info-relay says rogue did what he was supposed to: target me and Aventine.
Whether rogue_alchemist or AV is lying about what the targeting did or not is another question, but I feel more comfortable focusing on the potential wolf-voider.

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Assuming no better intel gets revealed:

I think what would be best for Town is to kill JWL this Night.
If he flips wolf, by D3 rogue_alchemist should have used their power to verify their Towniness to somebody they trust. If they haven't, I guess kill them. If they have, go after AV.

Also, for a general thing on AV: even when Town, she often spreads some misinfo. Either to protect those she is networked with, to goad wolves into particular actions, or to see if/how people respond to the misinfo. So, while is is suspicious and frustrating at times, I don't think it's necessarily a wolf move when it's AV.

I've rather inactive due to my inexperience in Werewolf and wanted to observe for a bit. I want to see what happens so I'm going to claim that I'm the Trusting Cop.

As long as the Doubting Cop stays unclaimed, I guess we're cool that you revealed. At least we know to kill you if the Doubting Cop dies.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

I think what would be best for Town is to kill JWL this Night.
If he flips wolf, by D3 rogue_alchemist should have used their power to verify their Towniness to somebody they trust. If they haven't, I guess kill them. If they have, go after AV.

The plan to prove Rogue's ability was messed up when the wolves didn't know about it - what's stopping them from roleblocking Rogue tonight to ruin our test again? Or, if Rogue is a wolf, what's to stop him from doing something different?

I don't mind JWL as a target, given they're going to auto-lynch tomorrow, but I'm not confident our test on Rogue is going to go as planned.




I'd also like the people not voting to weigh in before end of day.

---

Vote Count
JoyWonderLove 4 (JeenLeen, gac3, Bunny of Faith, Rogue_alchemist)
AvatarVecna 2 (Logan1996, AvatarVecna)
Rogue_alchemist 4 (Snowblaze, Book Wombat, CaoimhinTheCape, Apogee1)


Posted but didn't vote: Unavenger, bc56, Elenna

No posts: JoyWonderLove

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Also, we still don't have a role name or even alignment claim from Rogue.

[gac3]

The plan to prove Rogue's ability was messed up when the wolves didn't know about it - what's stopping them from roleblocking Rogue tonight to ruin our test again? Or, if Rogue is a wolf, what's to stop him from doing something different?

I don't mind JWL as a target, given they're going to auto-lynch tomorrow, but I'm not confident our test on Rogue is going to go as planned.




I'd also like the people not voting to weigh in before end of day.

---

Vote Count
JoyWonderLove 4 (JeenLeen, gac3, Bunny of Faith, Rogue_alchemist)
AvatarVecna 2 (Logan1996, AvatarVecna)
Rogue_alchemist 4 (Snowblaze, Book Wombat, CaoimhinTheCape, Apogee1)


Posted but didn't vote: Unavenger, bc56, Elenna

No posts: JoyWonderLove

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Also, we still don't have a role name or even alignment claim from Rogue.

Well hopefully killing JWL will prevent the wolves from role blocking. Since they have a blocking power.

Edit: "I can prove I'm town if I know I'm proving it to the right person" sounds like an alignment claim to me.

Edit 2: actually I'm pretty sure they also claimed power. The only thing missing is name. Given it's not a role from the OP, I'm not sure the name would help but I would like to have it.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Edit: "I can prove I'm town if I know I'm proving it to the right person" sounds like an alignment claim to me.

Ah, yeah, checking his post again and he said town a few times. I just assumed Vortexer = Neutral since that's what it was in HP.

[Elenna]

I can explain my logic.
Rogue said something that sounded very much like town to me. I'm not going to go digging for the exact quote, but it amounted to "No matter what I do, I'm going to be associated with wolves." While this is true if he is a wolf, it feels like something a wolf wouldn't say, because it immediately brings to mind the possibility that the speaker is a wolf.
As for the question of why I didn't move, just because I'm uneasy about the wagon didn't mean I saw a better option. And we all know how people who change their votes at the last second are seen.

For now, I'm going to hold off on voting until I see how the wagons develop.

FoS on this, mostly because you said rogue's post sounded "very much like town", but you also didn't see a better option. If you thought rogue was fairly likely to be town, wouldn't almost any other wagon be better? Or did you think all the other leading wagons were also likely to be town?
Also, I'm just generally not a fan of people seeming to prioritize being seen as town over voting for wolves. EDIT nevermind I'm dumb

I told two people that I was taking a suggestion made by AV, but not exactly what that suggestion was. I can identify them if people want to know, I guess, but I'm not really sure if that makes them more likely to be wolves or not.

It occurred to me later that either Bunny or Caoimhin (the two people I mentioned the plan to) might have been wolves who saw my comment and went "AV has a plan? Quick, disrupt it by roleblocking Elenna!". But that seems unlikely now, both because they both admitted fairly quickly to being the people I talked to, and also because JeenLeen apparently thinks I was roleblocked by town.

The first big analysis post either called out an inactive wolf, or combines with your death to set up an easy mislynch on me today. The second big analysis post convinced me you were a wolf. Posting analysis at night objectively played a huge hand in getting you killed, no matter what the explanation is for why there's only one corpse today. I bear most of the blame because I actually fired a shot (and honestly, I shouldn't have even engaged the post last night the way I did), but that doesn't change that you were figuratively (and later literally) asking to get shot.

FWIW I'm surprised you actually shot him, because I was reading you both as slightly more likely to be townie based on that - my gut feeling was that it felt like genuinely wrongly-accused townie on both sides, and also I suspect that long angry public arguments with that level of tunnelling are fairly often town vs town. Although I guess he did ask you to do it.

Still wondering why Aventine's power didn't protect himself. AV, I assume from your earlier post that your shot wasn't unblockable? Bunny of Faith brought up a possibility in our QT which somehow hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet (unless I missed it), which is that Aventine may have been vortexed to target someone else. But if rogue_alchemist is telling the truth, that would mean two vortexers in the game, which feels like a lot although I could maybe believe one town-sided vortexer and one wolf-sided vortexer. We already apparently have a town-sided and a wolf-sided voider.

Someone told me that JoyWonderLove roleblocked me last Night. Since I think I know who the Cop roleblocked, makes me think JWL is a wolf voider.

I'm down to vote JoyWonderLove to hopefully get rid of a voider.

AV told me that the Cop roleblocked Elenna last night. I didn't want to state that openly, because I don't want to give Elenna a reason (even if a petty reason like spite) to side with the wolves. But now that I've been asked, no reason not to answer.

But why

Seriously, though, I think it's better for town to let me use my powers and leave so you know for sure I'm telling the truth, so, like... maybe don't?

(Unless this was a plan to prove their power by having me state that I was roleblocked, without losing a potentially town-sided power use. In which case, fair, I could see that, although I'm not sure proving you're a voider is all that helpful given that it's a fairly common wolf power. Plus I'd be surprised if AV suggested that given how much they apparently want to see me flip.)

Elenna: -1
Neutral claimant, only reason to doubt the claim is because of just how dangerous her being a fake-claiming wolf would be.

*shrug* If I was a lying wolf, there's a good chance the real Spirit would be killed before D6, which would make my lynch inevitable. If that helps.

Although I guess that chance would be lower if the real Spirit was actively in talks with the wolves and being protected by them, which seems to be the situation you're paranoid about. But I'm not sure how a neutral would even go about contacting the wolves mid-D1. Basically the only possibility I can imagine is if wolf!me proactively claimed Spirit in the hopes that the real Spirit would contact me and forge an alliance instead of outing me, getting me lynched D1, and then easily being trusted by town. Which... I guess it's possible (I mean, in the alternate universe where I'm a wolf), but it would be a really ballsy move. I can't imagine myself actually taking that risk as a wolf, for what that's worth.

Also also: Flipping = I assume that's dying and having your role revealed? Googling around didn't help with this one, just want to make sure.

...

Double edit: I didn't mean to edit this in and this was supposed to be in a different post, did the forum just auto-update that for me?

Yes and yes. Flipping is a reference to real-life werewolf games where everyone has a card showing their role and when they die they flip over the card to show what their role is. And as someone else mentioned, this part of the forum automatically combines double posts like that unless the second one is posted

SCUM:
Elenna (too many vortexers that I've come across and she feels like she was trying to get a claim out before anyone else)
CaoimhinTheCape (because he is playing very much like he did in EVWW and he was wolf there)
gac3 (he seems to be throwing a lot of suspicion and vague threats and unhelpful confusion around)

I'll add that in reading everyone else's analysis I am convinced to stop going after Elenna (which would be very OMGUS right now anyways) and to poke JWL. LIke I said I won't be much active for the rest of the day, I"ll try to check in in about 14 hours and then again about an hour before this day ends. Sorry if that makes me suspicious.

The Playful Spirit role is in the OP, which means it does exist in this game. So whether I or someone else is the real Playful Spirit, either way there's the same number of vortexers in the game. So I'm not sure why that's evidence against me? (Also, one vortexer plus a couple neutral one-shots doesn't seem like too many to me, unless you're saying you have evidence of other vortexers?)

Also, I'm confused why you're going after me would be OMGUS, given that I haven't accused you (or much of anyone else) at all? (TBH I don't have a ton of motivation to scum-hunt as a neutral so I've been spending time on IRL stuff instead) Like, obviously I'm not saying you should vote for me, but also are you sure that's the word you meant?

Ah, yeah, checking his post again and he said town a few times. I just assumed Vortexer = Neutral since that's what it was in HP.

FYI, the term "vortexer" usually refers to someone who can switch people's targets (e.g. my power of picking two people and making person A target person B, or making both of them target each other). I've seen vortexers on all sides, although you can argue that they cause more confusion and are therefore anti-town. Town did have a vortexer in HP (Ginny) although the player was busy so an action wasn't submitted for that role until N3. Peeves' role in that game (switching what powers people have) wasn't a vortexer in that sense, and also it's not a common role at all. It's actually something I just made up on my sister's suggestion when I needed another role and was looking for neutral characters.

[JeenLeen]

The Playful Spirit role is in the OP, which means it does exist in this game. So whether I or someone else is the real Playful Spirit, either way there's the same number of vortexers in the game. So I'm not sure why that's evidence against me?

I believe Elenna, but I feel I should point out that (in the recruitment thread) I'm pretty sure Valmark said the examples were just examples, and may or may not make it into the final game and, even if in it, might be altered.
To be honest, I'm really surprised the Cop duo really made it in, due to the stuff I posted D1 about how the Trusting Cop potentially joining the wolves causes a strange dynamic.

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To clarify, I figured the oddities of the Cop duo would come to light one way or another and they'd be edited a lot or dropped. I didn't mean I thought my D1 posts would somehow retroactively change the roles' existence. (Just reread that and saw how odd it looked.)

[Elenna]

I believe Elenna, but I feel I should point out that (in the recruitment thread) I'm pretty sure Valmark said the examples were just examples, and may or may not make it into the final game and, even if in it, might be altered.
To be honest, I'm really surprised the Cop duo really made it in, due to the stuff I posted D1 about how the Trusting Cop potentially joining the wolves causes a strange dynamic.

I could've sworn I saw AV say somewhere that they had claims from most or all of the roles in the OP, so it's unlikely that any of them don't exist, but I can't find it anymore.
(I also thought I saw someone use the acronym AGI somewhere, like what gac asked about, but I can't find that either. Maybe I'm just hallucinating. )