How good / bad is this?

[SangoProduction]

Last campaign, I offered my players two options for point buy: Either 20 points, under regular rules; Or 25 points, but no pre-race stat above 16. Everyone took the latter option.

The idea behind this was: If you aren't trying to really stack a single or two stats as high as possible, you get even less punished for being MAD. (Beyond the simple scaling point costs of singular high stats.)

I'm just asking what you guys think of such a system. Is it unbalanced? Not restrictive enough? Not rewarding enough?

I personally felt like it was quite alright, and the players seemed enthusiastic in their choice. But I hardly expect us to have the collective centuries of experience the forum does.

[Powerdork]

Smells like an exaggeration of point costs for 17+. The fact that you capped it at an even number rather than an odd number for the breakpoint seems counterintuitive to me. If you want people to pay more for the 18, then you can attach the increased point cost to just the 18. There are three sources of odd-numbered ability modifiers and one of them is out of reach of most campaigns (wish books of inherent bonuses), and advancement +1 per 4 levels is already well metered out; only the age modifiers remain, and even then, they're strictly negatives for physical abilities, which the multiple ability-dependent classes care about plenty while the single ability-dependent classes don't, broadly speaking.

It just kind of hurts the MAD classes for players that do want to bring a high stat to bear (by giving them generally worse ability scores than the other PC who used the 25 point cap), and doesn't impact casters in ways that casters would care about unless their concept involves having a good level of capability beyond the magic (in which case it's asking them to be deliberately worse at their primary class function and give up both efficacy (save DCs) and longevity (bonus spells) in the name of +1 on select checks). Same deal as with tier-ranked point buy, except with the illusion of choice attached.

Of course, if none of that impact I describe is actually felt, then it's a moot point because nobody notices any benefit or hindrance, making it no different from a regular 25 point buy, in which case, why have the rule at all, besides flagging to your table that you want less minimizing/maximizing?

[Kurald Galain]

Last campaign, I offered my players two options for point buy: Either 20 points, under regular rules; Or 25 points, but no pre-race stat above 16.

It's probably a fair deal, but for any dex-primary or full-caster build I would prefer the former. Generally speaking, D&D'esque systems reward specialization over trying to cover all your bases.

For instance, 18/14/12/10/10/7 or 16/16/12/12/10/10? Yeah, I'd likely pick the former.

[Eldonauran]

I rarely, if ever, create a character with a stat higher than 17 (ie, 15 before racial bonus). I am perfectly content waiting till 4th level before I get my first 18 in a stat. I'd have easily taken your 25 point offer and been content (even happy) with it. As to why I am ok with it... Well, the only time I like to milk every last drop of power out of a character is during my theoretical character builds, which I inevitably bring down to realistic levels when I choose to play them in a game. Besides, I like the 3/4 BAB, 6th level casting, highly versatile classes above all else.

[Psyren]

It's probably a fair deal, but for any dex-primary or full-caster build I would prefer the former. Generally speaking, D&D'esque systems reward specialization over trying to cover all your bases.

For instance, 18/14/12/10/10/7 or 16/16/12/12/10/10? Yeah, I'd likely pick the former.

I'd probably go with 16/16/14/12/10/8 for the latter but I agree, the first array is better for a SAD class.

[Rynjin]

Typically, IME, everyone took the latter option because that's how 25 PB builds shake out on average anyway.

When I run games, 25 PB is usually my go to. I don't think I've ever seen anyone buy a pre-racial 18, and when I build 25 PB characters I don't either. Usually, it simply isn't worth it in the grand scheme, even for nominally SAD characters.

I'd probably go with 16/16/14/12/10/8 for the latter but I agree, the first array is better for a SAD class.

Typically this is what I see, or alternately 16 14 14 14 10 10.