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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2017

    Default Order of applying Feats

    Hello there!

    I am building a multiclass Hunter 2, Bolt Ace Gunslinger 5 character, further levels will all be hunter again. As a Hunter, I gain access to an Animal Companion, which i seek to bolster using the amazing Feat Boon Companion.
    Spoiler: Boon Companion
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    Prerequisite: Animal companion class feature or familiar class feature.

    Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you dismiss or lose an animal companion or familiar that has received this benefit, you can apply this feat to the replacement creature.

    Special: You can select this feat more than once. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.


    As to my understanding, this will cause the animal companion to not lag behind anymore, until i take my fifth level of Gunslinger (total character level 7), in which it will lag behind by 1 level from then on.

    I then proceeded to take the Human Racial Feat Huntmaster, selecting the appropriate animal type, to increase its level by 1 more, so it will scale with my own level. As far as I understand, Huntsmaster does NOT have a level cap.
    Spoiler: Huntmaster
    Show
    Prerequisites: Handle Animal 1 rank; either the animal companion, divine bond (mount), or mount class feature; human.

    Benefit: If you have the animal companion class feature, pick one of the following types of animal companions that this feat affects: bird, dog, small cat, or horse. If you have the divine bond (mount) or mount class feature, this feat always affects horses. You gain a +2 bonus on Handle Animal and Knowledge (nature) checks with creatures of that type of animal. Furthermore, you are treated as one level higher when determining the abilities of your animal companion or mount, as long as it is of the chosen type.


    Now i realized, that if I take Huntmaster at level 1, this should give me an Animal companion as if I was level 2 already. At level 2, this would be a Companion as if I was level 3. At level 3 however, I begin to multiclass into Gunslinger, so I take Boon Companion. However, Boon Companion only bolsters the level up to my character level.

    This allows 2 Cases:
    1.) Huntmaster triggers first. Then Boon Companion. In this case, at level 3, due to the multiclass, the Huntsmaster boosts my companion to level 3, causing Boon companion to do nothing.
    2.) Boon Companion triggers first. In this Case, Boon Companion boosts the Companion by 1 level to level 3, then Huntsmaster applies, raising the total level to 4.

    Would the result of these cases be different if I took Boon companion at level 1 (effectively wasting the feat effect at level 1 though) and Huntsmaster at level 3?

    At level 7, this problem solves itself for boon companion and Huntsmaster add up to +5 levels, effectively negating the multiclassing issue which used to be my original goal. However, between levels 3 and 6, there is this overlap in which the order of feat application makes a big difference.

    My question thus is, who or what determines the order of my feats being applied?
    Can I as the player choose which feat is applied first, does the order in which I purchased the feat during levelling up matter (and, consequentially, would retraining the feats to artificially swap them around after a certain point) do anything about it, or is there any general rule that states that players always get to choose in which order to apply stuff?
    This specific example dives a bit into optimization, but is also suited for any other situation in which effects might matter.

    I thank you for your responses. :-)
    Last edited by xXAmaroqXx; 2020-06-04 at 07:23 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    exelsisxax's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Order of applying Feats

    Unconditional increases apply first (huntsmaster), then any conditional or capped increases(boon companion). Basically the time when you would actually take boon companion rolls around you are capped to your character level.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Order of applying Feats

    I would be interested in knowing the source of this answer, as I could simply state the opposite, but would have no rule information to back it up other than some convoluted interpretation of the specific overrides general mantra.

    Personally, as a DM, I would allow for the Hunstmaster feat to be applied after the Boon Companion feat. It seems silly to punish a player when they are paying a cost (like taking a feat) for something and it provides no real benefit at some point so it has to be trained out. If your DM even allows that.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Prime32's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ireland
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    Male

    Default Re: Order of applying Feats

    In D&D 3.5, in situations like this you apply the bonuses in whatever order is most beneficial. It's likely that this was true in Pathfinder originally, but it may have been changed.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    exelsisxax's Avatar

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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Order of applying Feats

    I do not know the exact source, but pathfinder actually uses a LEAST beneficial backstop. I think it was in regards to the magical kncack trait (+2 caster level up to HD) and how it interacted with other CL increases. Otherwise, you can basically ignore the restriction on the trait. It explicitly says it can't raise your CL above HD, but any other usage than the least beneficial application makes it do so anyway.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Order of applying Feats

    Fair enough, but it seems that the whole approach defeats the purpose of situations where something can be increased above your normal maximum. It makes that caveat (or lack thereof) kind of pointless. Everything should just be limited by the applicable class level, and if it isn't in specific cases, I would feel like that is a case that overrides what is normal for that type of benefit.

    I'd just ask the DM, or perhaps convince the DM, to allow it based upon the "Rule of Fun," since it doesn't really break anything.

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