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    Default Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Hey guys, since I am, well, watching The Clone Wars for the first time, I thought I'd make one of these threads to share my reactions with those of you who might be interested.

    First some context. I first watched Clone Wars (2003) when I was a wee lad on YouTube and liked it. I went to see the The clone Wars movie in theater in 2008 and did not like it. Since then I had heard good things about the show but wasn't interested enough to watch it. Then I heard aboout Rebels and wasn't interested either. But then I heard Grand Admiral Thrawn was in Rebels so I watched the **** out of it. About a year and half ago I thought that since I overall enjoyed RebelsvI should give The Clone Wars a shot. The first episode bored me and I never got back to it. But with season seven out a friend kept pestering me to watch it. So I am now.


    Let's go!

    Some ground rules for the thread, when discussing episodes further down the line than the one I am currently at please use spoiler boxes if possible do advertise what season/episode those spoilers are from. Since some stories are broken down into several episodes I will review them story by story rather than episode by episode.

    Now, I am not going into this blind, as I have heard about some plot developments from second-hand sources and seen videos floating on the Web. Meaning that I am aware that
    Spoiler
    Show
    a frog Jedi named Ping-Pong or something defects to the Dark Side, Maul comes back and tries to make his brother a Sith and get rekt involving Mandalorians, Obi-Wan falls in love, Tarkin shows up, Boba Fett shows up and Ahsoka get kicked out the order because some other Jedi got to the Dark Side (don't remember which one just that it was a humanoid female).


    Spoiler: On the show in general
    Show

    So this is a kid show. Clearly I can't expect it to get too gruesome and I should expect some kiddie writing regarding subjects as politics and war. Like, ain't no way there'll be an in-depth exploration of anti-alien prejudice used as a metaphor for *ahem* Real life verboten subjects, nor will I see Yoda order soldiers shot for desertion. Come to think of it, It really must have helped that the ennemy fields faceless interchangeable bloodless robots as their army. But then again, this is Dave filoni so I trust that the writing will be good most of the time if not all of the time.
    The animation looks good enough for being twelve years old. I hope it gets better, especially for the last season.
    Let's talk Ahsoka. Ahsoka is a kid-appeal character. Somebody the children watching can identify with (and a better done one than The Phantom Menace Anakin. In itslef, that's no problem but what bugs me is that she is Anakin's padawan. What the hell? He isn't a master! That's an important plot point of Revenge, that the council doesn't trust him with that kind of responsability. That was one of my gripes with the pilot movie I remember it clearly. Well, maybe they've found a way to make that work. I'll see.
    Of course since this is a prequel show I know very well that most named characters can't die because they show up in [I]Revenge of the Sith[/I and in the case of Ahsoka, Rebels (though at the time that didn't exist so I can't blame them for nay death fake-out) and in Rex's as an old soldier in Return of the Jedi also Rebels with a couple clones named Wolf and Idon'tremember who I guess I'll meet here. I hope they don't try to make us think Anakin got killed or something.


    Also I guess the episodes have titles but the site I watch them only list numbers so that's what I'll use.

    With that out of the way let's go go go go! I have already watched half a dozen episodes so here goes:

    Spoiler: Season 1, Episode 1: Ambush
    Show

    Yoda and Ventress competes to get the toydarians (I think) on their side of the conflict.
    Seen that one ages ago. No intention of rewatching it. It's Yoda vs Ventress, I mean, do I need to tell you who's going to win? There's a neat bit where Yoda tells the clones that they all look different through the eyes of the Force.
    Next!


    Spoiler: Season 1, Episodes 2-4: Rising/Shadow of/Destroy Malevolence
    Show
    Hey a three-parter! The separatists have a new secret weapon a myserious cruiser named the Malevolence armed with an ion cannon that can disable ships. So ion cannons were cutting edge tech during the Clone Wars, I like that, technological progress yo! Are Grievous and Dooku really both needed on-board though? Master Plo Koon discovres the weapon by being fired on and losing his fleet. Everybody gets killed except him and a handfull of clones. The clones think they're disposable and nobody will rescue them but Plo disagrees. Anakin and Ahsoka agree, though as they only care about rescuing Plo Koon who was the one who brought Ahsoka in. There's some fighting in space, turns out Plo Koon can just go in space in his Jedi robes and be basically fine. Ahsoka and Anakin are flying a weird ship that I think they found in that godawful pilot movie.

    Second part has them hunt down the Malevolence as it is about to attack a space war hospital because Grievous (Dooku left between episodes) is a prick. There's a big nebula in the way so every one has to take the long route but Anakin decides to be cocky and go through witha squadron including Ahsoka, Plo Koon and some redshirts. Anakin outmaneuvers the ion weapon but his instance on geeting the bridge (and Grievous) gets his squad slaughtered. So he decides to shoot the ion cannon because that's easier somehow. This damages enough the enny ship that the hyperdrive won't work when Kenobi gets there with his fleet.

    Third part has Grievous desperately trying to run away without an hyperdive but sidious sends Padmé to him by lying to her (sounds like an awful risk to blow his cover are Grievous and that weapon really that important to his plans?). Padmé ship is captured so the Jedi halt their fire and mount a rescue mission. There's some decent action even a Grievous/Obi-wan sort of fight (hello there!). that reminds me: Anakin and Grievous met for thr first time in Revenge are they going to spend the whole show dancing around each other? Always enterign a room just as the other one leaves? Anyway, Padmé and Anakin have a moment. Aaaand this kid show has already given me more chemistry between these two than three entire movies. Great job Lucas. They manage to escape and to trick Grievous into thinking his hyperdrive was repared when it wasn't (because battle droids are really, really dumb) which explodes the ship when they try to turn it on. Victory!
    Moving on.


    Spoiler: Season 1, Episode 5: Rookies
    Show
    A standalone one. We meet a bunch of clones manning a watchtower near Kamino. The Clones are Echo (the by-the-book serious one), Heavy (the heavy weapons guy), Fives (the bland one), sergeant DeadMan of the Walking family, Wormfood, Redshirt #1 and Redshirt #2. This is the most tranquil post of the whole war and, being a bunch of new meat they bored out of their skulls. But excitment soon arrive in the form of commando battle-droids iside a fake meteorite shower and hot damn why couldn't these guys be the baseline Separatist soldiers? Adequately competent, more sinister looking than their mainstream bretren and, most importantly, they shut up! The droids take over the outpost forcing the only survivors (Heavy, Echo an Fives) to flee. The invaders report to Grievous (who is leading an attack fleet to Kamino) that they've hardwired the "all-clear" signal so the Republic won't see him coming. Fortunately Cody and Rex are on their way to inspect the watchtower. The droids fail to fool them by putting clone armor on and emulating their voices (points for trying though) and Rex and Cody meet the survivors. Rex calls them shinies, "Your amor is brand new and shiny... Just like you". They manage to take back the outpost by fooling the droids in turn (using a droids severed head as a disguise) but Grievous, in a shocking moment of competence, gets worried his team isn't reporting and sends more droids to check on them. Seeing that the clones decide to blow the tower up using their fuel, reasonning that the "all-clear signal" acts as a deadman switch and the Jedi will figure it out. Problem is the detonators aren't working. The clons flee as the droids enter (and manage to miss them in a literal corridor) bu Heavy stays behind and activates the detonators manuall destroying the outpost, the droids and himself. (Droid: "Do we take prisoners?" Heavy: "I don't" somewhat badass but it makes me wonder if the Geneva Convention exists in Star Wars. Man the Republic would be in so much trouble if it did.) Ahsobiwanakin arrives with their fleet Adn Grievous flees, out-gunned (seriously? You invade the second-most well defended planet in the Republic with not enough firepower to ougun three crusers!)
    Echo and Fives are commanded for their actions and integrated into the 501st under Rex and Anakin. Hope we see more of these two.

    Okay, that was the best episode so far. The clones were likeable and as original characters eminently killable. I didn't expect Heavy and the fourth one to make it out of the station to die. The commando droids were legitimely threatening and had a cool design. I hope they show up more too. also Ventress is on Kamino spying for Grievous. Ominous.
    Let's see what's next!


    Spoiler: Season 1, Episodes 6 & 7: Downfall of a Droid & Duel of the Droids
    Show
    Okay, this is stupid. So we open well enough with a cool space battle between Anakin and Grievous (You guys have other officers right in your armies, right?) where both take advantage of a nearby asteroid ring (Hey look asteroids realistically portrayed!) Grievous as cover for his ships and Anakin as an ambush spot for his land vehicles shooting the ennemy from behind! Damn, that was clever. Anakin leads a fighter squad while the twelvish-year old Ahsoka commands the cruisers (Jedi are ****ed up, man). Anakin even does a spin, neat trick. They win. But then the dumb comes in. OH NOES, ARTOO IS DEAD! Anakin of course refuse to believe this and frantically look for his secret wife's gift best buddy all over the place. Obi-Wan disaproves but is forced to relent when Anakin reveals Artoo memory banks contains all of the Republic strategise. The Astromech's memories contains the strategies. Why. Anakin is given aremplacement, R3-S4, who quickly proves to be unreliable almsot getting Anakin killed a few times. Ahsoka and Ani find a trandoshan scavenger who may have found Artoo. As they search his ship (even though he said he didn't have the droid) R3 activates some IG assassin droids who prove to be somewhat a nuisance. Anisoka then leave without paying the scavenger for the droids they wrecked and the damaged to his other cargo. This attitude is why the Republic turned on you, guys. Anyway, turns out the guy did find Artooo and is selling him to Grievous. Do you not have underlings to do that for you, you mechanical idiot!?
    In the second part the heroes find a Separatist listening post used to spy on their communications. This is also where Grievous meets the Trandoshan (and rewards him with murder). Anakin, Rex, Ahsoka and some clones infiltartes the station to destroy it but little orphan Ani leaves the mission t rescue Artoo. ahsoka ends up dueling Grievous while the clones pose bombs. This is a okay duel as they end up playing cat and mouse and Grievous actually looks menacing. He even mentions adding Ahsoka's lightsaber to his collection (are trying to cram all the memes they can into this show? Also I wonder how he strated his collection, did he fight with an electro-staff before?). Turns out R3 was a traitor (shocking I know). They all manage to get away as the station is destroyed (well all only Rex and one other clone* made it). Is it me or is Grievous' escape a reused animation? R2 got to duel his evil knowk-off to the death, riveting.

    Except for the duela and the opening there isn't much good to say of this episode, moving along.
    *I'm guessing this guy taught Wedge Antilles all he knows.


    Spoiler: Season 1, Episode 8: Bombad Jedi
    Show
    This is where I am at. A standalone one. Pdamé is going on a diplomatic mission to Rodia. And oh god why is Jar Jar here!? The rodians have been courted pretty hard by the Separatists and Palaptine of all people is worried for Padmé's safety. She says they can't solve every problem by throwing troops at it. Padmé, you used to have bodyguards and decoys, this is ont the same thing and you know it. As she lands she orders 3-PO and Jar Jar to stay inside the ship. Why even bring them along then? The rodian leader is a family friend of Padmé but because his people are starving for some reason he joined the Separatists in exchange for food and is capturing her to give her to Grievous Gunray! Hey another Separatist leader. Wait. Jar Jar Padmé and Gunray? Is this a Phantom Meance remake? Are Sebulba and Watto going to jump in from behind a rock? B1 droids try to arrest Jar Jar and 3-PO. Wow, Star Wars top three least funny comic relief all together in one room. Hilarity does not ensue. 3PO and Jar Jar beats them with a giant magnet that somehow doesn't fry 3-PO's circuits but the ship is destroyed. They try to make us think Jar Jar is dead but I watched RotS, so I know I'm not that lukcy. Jar Jar finds one of anakin's robes (you are terrible at this secret lovers thing, Ani) and put it on because this is this sorry excuse for a character's idea of a disguise. As Padmé is locked up by droids she says to her rodian "uncle" who protested "Welcome to the Separatists' world" (I guess the Republic only cuffs their prisoners' feet). Jar Jar ends up mistaken for a Jedi as he spies on Gunray and the rodian (who speaks in Basic to his aid who answers in Rodianese for reasons too great for mortal minds to comprehend). He barely escapes death by jumping into a swamp where a bigh fish almost eat him. Padmé hears that a Jedi is here and tricks her guards into opening the door of her cell (god, these droids are dumb), she then proceed to kick them to death. (New headcannon! B1 droids are not actually made of metal but of some sort of brittle plastic). She escapes and meet Threepio who explains Jar Jar is rescuing her. She sends him to contact the Rpublic and goes to rescue Jar Jar. This ends poorly. Threepio gets past the droids guarding the comm room by pretending to be a Saparatist. That reminds me of A New Hope back when Threepio could be somewhat competent and snarky. Anway, he gets a message out but is captured alognside Padmé. Jar Jar (who was thought dead by the Separatists) intervenes and... Ugh... saves... the day... with the help of the big fish, who turns out, is amphibian. Gunray tries to flee just a sthe clone arrives and is topped by the rodian who didn't like how Gunray basically postponed the food delivery forever in a previous scene. Gunray is arrested (not to worry, the Republic will keep the moral high ground by keeping him out of bondage in an unlocked cell), Jar Jar is congratulated by Palpatine who low-key dissed him earlier and Rodia is promised food in exchange of their servitude loyalty to the Republic.

    Okay. This was really dumb, but at least it wasn't boring. Gunray getting captured is interesting. Obviously he will get out before Revenge but still, on paper it's a major victory for the Republic and possibly a security risk for Palpatine dependign on wether Gunray recognized Sidious.


    Right, that's it for today!
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-02-08 at 09:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post

    Spoiler: On the show in general
    Show

    In itslef, that's no problem but what bugs me is that she is Anakin's padawan. What the hell? He isn't a master!
    Spoiler: not actually a spoiler for anything in the show but as I am answering a spoiler it seems appropriate
    Show

    I kindof felt the same way but in fairness at the end of The Phantom Menace Obi-Wan was made and Knight and took a Padawan immediately - so one does not have to be a master to have a padawan


    Seperately in case you haven't heard - the show does not follow linear time, as such earlier episodes occassionally occur chronologically after later ones - normally it doesn't matter but sometimes it does.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Spoiler: On the show in general
    Show

    Let's talk Ahsoka. Ahsoka is a kid-appeal character. Somebody the children watching can identify with (and a better done one than The Phantom Menace Anakin. In itslef, that's no problem but what bugs me is that she is Anakin's padawan. What the hell? He isn't a master!
    Spoiler
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    Why would he need to be a Master? Kenobi is promoted to Knight in Episode I and immediately takes on Anakin as a Padawan, so we know that Knights can take Padawans.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    That spoiler was mostly for ease of reading.

    Because that's what the rank means? A padawan learns, a knight is good enough to be independant and a master is good enought to teach. It has always been my understanding that Obi-Wan was catapulted from padawan to master at the end of TPM both to respect Qui-Gon's wishes and because he just killed a Sith Lord in single combat. Is there any piece of lore in either canon that portrays Obi-Wan as a knight?

    I mean if knights can have padawans how are they different from masters who aren't on the Council? Why aren't they masters even though they are somebody's master?
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spoiler
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    Why would he need to be a Master? Kenobi is promoted to Knight in Episode I and immediately takes on Anakin as a Padawan, so we know that Knights can take Padawans.
    Spoiler
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    I made the same point above, but in fairness if your only exposure to Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker was Episode 2 then you wouldn't trust him to mind an imaginary rock let alone take on the responsibility for the moral and emotional development of a superpowered child.
    Last edited by dancrilis; 2020-06-06 at 06:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That spoiler was mostly for ease of reading.

    Because that's what the rank means? A padawan learns, a knight is good enough to be independant and a master is good enought to teach. It has always been my understanding that Obi-Wan was catapulted from padawan to master at the end of TPM both to respect Qui-Gon's wishes and because he just killed a Sith Lord in single combat. Is there any piece of lore in either canon that portrays Obi-Wan as a knight?

    I mean if knights can have padawans how are they different from masters who aren't on the Council? Why aren't they masters even though they are somebody's master?
    There's that Yoda explicitly says "Confer on you, the level of Jedi Knight the Coucil does. But agree on you taking this boy as your Padawan learner, I do not.... Agree, the council does. Your apprentice, young Skywalker will be." So they elevated him to Knight and gave him a Padawan. Knights are good enough to teach. I think of it like a grad student teaching undergrads, or an adjunct professor instead of one who has tenure.

    Oh, a couple of other things:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Spoiler: Episodes 6 & 7
    Show
    Anakin and Grievous (You guys have other officers right in your armies, right?)
    No. No, they do not.

    And finally, Season 2, Episode 11 is my fave. Excited for you to get to that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Spoiler
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    I made the same point above, but in fairness if your only exposure to Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker was Episode 2 then you wouldn't trust him mind an imaginary rock let alone take on the responsibility for the moral and emotional development of a superpowered child.
    They do cover that in the movie pilot, though; the council hopes that having a Padawan (especially an older, headstrong one) will force him to be more mindful of his own shortcomings.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-06-06 at 06:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    There's that Yoda explicitly says "Confer on you, the level of Jedi Knight the Coucil does. But agree on you taking this boy as your Padawan learner, I do not.... Agree, the council does. Your apprentice, young Skywalker will be." So they elevated him to Knight and gave him a Padawan. Knights are good enough to teach. I think of it like a grad student teaching undergrads, or an adjunct professor instead of one who has tenure.
    Meah, I am in no hurry to rewatch TPM.
    Does make padawans, squires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Oh, a couple of other things:
    No. No, they do not.
    Oh, dangnabit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    And finally, Season 2, Episode 11 is my fave. Excited for you to get to that one.
    Well now, I'm excited.

    They do cover that in the movie pilot, though; the council hopes that having a Padawan (especially an older, headstrong one) will force him to be more mindful of his own shortcomings.
    Ah, so they're throwing her under the bus then?

    EDIT: Also, Wulf Yularen imperial spymaster and head of the Imperial Security Bureau got outspied by an astromech. That is hilarious.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Hey, it sounds like you got through (most of) the "we're just starting out and haven't quite figured out what we should be doing with this series yet" episodes in one sitting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I mean if knights can have padawans how are they different from masters who aren't on the Council? Why aren't they masters even though they are somebody's master?
    I'm sure this has been changed numerous times, but I have the impression that successfully mentoring a padawan to Knight-hood is a sign of being eligible/worthy of the title of Jedi Master.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Hey, it sounds like you got through (most of) the "we're just starting out and haven't quite figured out what we should be doing with this series yet" episodes in one sitting!
    Well, I only had the idea of making this thread after like episode 6 or 7 so more like 4-5 sittings.
    also glad to know the bad stuff is mostly behind me. I was afraid the whole of season 1 would be like that.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I'm sure this has been changed numerous times, but I have the impression that successfully mentoring a padawan to Knight-hood is a sign of being eligible/worthy of the title of Jedi Master.
    That sort of makes sense, but I feel this would have come up in Revenge of the Sith, then.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-06-06 at 06:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    also glad to know the bad stuff is mostly behind me. I was afraid the whole of season 1 would be like that.
    On the whole it is a good show (personal opinion etc) but there is plenty of bad ahead ... maybe do yourself a favour and skip the Jar-Jar episodes (which are admittedly rare).

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Oh, dangnabit.
    Oh, I agree so much. The show could have been titled "Star Wars: Watch Grievous Run Away" instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Ah, so they're throwing her under the bus then?
    Pretty much. The show could have been titled "Star Wars: Ahsoka Gets Thrown Under the Bus" instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Hey, it sounds like you got through (most of) the "we're just starting out and haven't quite figured out what we should be doing with this series yet" episodes in one sitting!
    Indeed. Handy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I'm sure this has been changed numerous times, but I have the impression that successfully mentoring a padawan to Knight-hood is a sign of being eligible/worthy of the title of Jedi Master.
    Correct at some point in time. I have no clue if that is still correct. Always in motion Star Wars canon is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Well, I only had the idea of making this thread after like episode 6 or 7 so more like 4-5 sittings.
    also glad to know the bad stuff is mostly behind me. I was afraid the whole of season 1 would be like that.
    Oh, there's still bad stuff. My main issue against TCW is bad individual episodes but good overall arcs. The ratio of bad to good episodes does significantly increase, though, so yay for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That sort of makes sense, but I feel this would have come up in Revenge of the Sith, then.
    Spoiler: Season 6 spoilers
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    Well, Jasdoif did say "successfully".
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-06-06 at 06:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    On the whole it is a good show (personal opinion etc) but there is plenty of bad ahead ... maybe do yourself a favour and skip the Jar-Jar episodes (which are admittedly rare).
    I appreciate this advice but I am nothing if not an insufferable completionist so I won't follow it.

    Besides now that I am going to post story by story, I'll make the summaries more detailed so I will be able to riff on Jar Jar more.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    also glad to know the bad stuff is mostly behind me. I was afraid the whole of season 1 would be like that.
    To be clear, most of the seasons have a couple subpar episodes (usually the Senate and/or Force-as-spiritualism episodes; I think one of the Filoni interviews said George Lucas insisted each season have at least one of each?); but they're still better executed than the beginning of season 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That sort of makes sense, but I feel this would have come up in Revenge of the Sith, then.
    Don't know what to tell you...There are a lot of things that should have come up in Revenge of the Sith, and a lot of things that weren't established until after Revenge of the Sith.

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    ... maybe do yourself a favour and skip the Jar-Jar episodes (which are admittedly rare).
    I disagree; the later Jar-Jar episodes, that portray him as sort of an "idiot savant" instead of just an idiot, are fairly good....And making Jar-Jar look more than tolerable is an accomplishment worth seeing.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Don't know what to tell you...There are a lot of things that should have come up in Revenge of the Sith, and a lot of things that weren't established until after Revenge of the Sith.
    Yeah, not terribly fantastic planning there, really.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Seperately in case you haven't heard - the show does not follow linear time, as such earlier episodes occassionally occur chronologically after later ones - normally it doesn't matter but sometimes it does.
    Thanks I’ll keep that in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I'm sure this has been changed numerous times, but I have the impression that successfully mentoring a padawan to Knight-hood is a sign of being eligible/worthy of the title of Jedi Master.
    Thinking about that again, that doesn’t mesh with Obi-Wan being a master when Anakin is still a Palawan back in Attack of the Clones
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    To be clear, most of the seasons have a couple subpar episodes (usually the Senate and/or Force-as-spiritualism episodes; I think one of the Filoni interviews said George Lucas insisted each season have at least one of each?); but they're still better executed than the beginning of season 1.
    Interesting, the Force as mysticism is usually my favorite part of Star Wars. We’ll see how that pans out.

    Don't know what to tell you...There are a lot of things that should have come up in Revenge of the Sith, and a lot of things that weren't established until after Revenge of the Sith.
    Well, when writing a prequel that’s the sort of things one should keep an eye out for.

    I disagree; the later Jar-Jar episodes, that portray him as sort of an "idiot savant" instead of just an idiot, are fairly good....And making Jar-Jar look more than tolerable is an accomplishment worth seeing.
    That would be impressive, yes.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I'm sure this has been changed numerous times, but I have the impression that successfully mentoring a padawan to Knight-hood is a sign of being eligible/worthy of the title of Jedi Master.
    Thinking about that again, that doesn’t mesh with Obi-Wan being a master when Anakin is still a Palawan back in Attack of the Clones
    Okay, I dug around...and while successfully training Padawans (or depending on where you look, a Padawan) is the most common, one can also attain the title of Master by completing a modified version of the Trials of Knighthood, or being recognized by the High Council for service to the Republic.

    Of course, if anything of the sort had been intended from the beginning, those trials would have their own fancy title (like Trials of Mastery) like most things in Star Wars; so this sounds like an official excuse for the discrepancy you noted, and the "service to the Republic" bit is probably supposed to justify Anakin's expectation of being made a Master on his appointment to the High Council.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Okay, I dug around...and while successfully training Padawans (or depending on where you look, a Padawan) is the most common, one can also attain the title of Master by completing a modified version of the Trials of Knighthood, or being recognized by the High Council for service to the Republic.

    Of course, if anything of the sort had been intended from the beginning, those trials would have their own fancy title (like Trials of Mastery) like most things in Star Wars; so this sounds like an official excuse for the discrepancy you noted, and the "service to the Republic" bit is probably supposed to justify Anakin's expectation of being made a Master on his appointment to the High Council.
    Taking a look at it it seems like the current canon might be 'the council feels you are a Jedi Master so you are - no other criteria needed, no specific responsibility confered', if that is accurate then it does imply a direct snub to Anakin i.e 'you can sit at the cool kids table because we have been told we had to let you, but let us be clear you are not one of the cool kids'.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Right, so turns out the last episode wasn't a stand alone but the first of a three-parter. I figured I could use TvTropes' recap page to find the epiosdes' titles and know which are which but the titles are spoilery (like seriously: Dooku captured? That's Attack of the cybermen-level spoilage).
    However, the episodes are only loosely connected, so screw it. I'm doing these episode from episode.

    Season 1, Episode 9: Cloak of Darkness

    Spoiler: Recap
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    We open with Ahsoka and Master Luminara Unduli (unusual team-up, is this like a Jedi student exchange with Anakin doing a mission with whoever is Unduli's padawan?) bringing Gunray to a Republic cruiser headed to Coruscant where he will be tried for war crimes (pot, kettle, you know the rest). Gunray is trying to bribe one of his guards, commander Gree of the Green Company (convienient !) who is having none of it and handcuffs him (But isn't that the Separatists' world?). Aboard the cruiser is captain Argaius of the Senate Guard, an elite military unit made of non-clones and wearing blue armor that look like a mix between clone armour and real-life hoplite armor. And I just realized theses are the predecessors to Plapatine's Royal Guards. Neat. Ahsoka wonders why a worm like Gunray warrants such a display of force and Unduli points out the obvious: he has dangerous allies who won't allow him to reach Coruscant.

    Indeed we cut to a Separatist warship where Dooku is having a video-conference with Sidious. Sidious worries that a coward like Gunray won't hold long when interrogated by Jedi and orders Dooku to free or kill him. Dooku states that his best warrior, Asajj Ventress is on it. Sidious isn't reassured as Ventress failed before (I mean you guy haven't fired Grievous yet so that seems on-brand). This prompts Dooku to tell Ventress (who is no longer/not yet on Kamino) that failure won't be tolerated this time. She is unfazed.

    Back with the Jedi, they are working on Gunray who claims to be an innocent pawn (well he's half right). Unduli is reading his mind and sees that he is protecting "secret allies" and worried of losing his wealth. Ahsoka gets fed up with him and draws her saber to threaten him. Unduli is horrified and tell her that terror isn't the Jedi way. Ahsoka retorts that she wasn't actually going to kill him... That's not the issue, Ahsoka. It worked though as Gunray is now willing to negotiate.

    Suddenly droids! A bunch of vulture droids are leading boardships to the cruisers. The clones mount a defense against a swarm of superbattle droids. Last time I said I wished the commando battle droids were the baseline separatist footmen but these guys are pretty good too sharing none of the quirks of the battle droids (though their aim isn't that much better). As the clones get slaughtered, Unduli takes Gree and with her to go fight the ennemy while Ahsoka is to guard Gunray. Gunray meanwhile retracts his offer prompting Ahsoka to tell him that the Separatists may be here to kill him.

    Of course the attack is only a diversion as Ventress leaves a dropship and behead a lone clone survivor stealing his comm device. She then proceeds to a big important-looking room (the hyperdrive?) through one of those absurd cinema person-sized well lit air vent and plants bombs everywhere while evading detection of a nearby Republic droid. The dorid gets upset when two clones shorten his number to adress him which got a chuckle out of me. Is that why R2 is always pissed?

    Unduli finishes dispatching the superbattledroids meaning Gunray is again willing to "negotiate" however Ventress jumps in the detention area and fighting ensue. Ahsoka and Ventress exchange barbs ending with Ahsoka promising her a "merciful death". Sweet space Jesus, Ahsoka what the hell ahs Anakin been teaching you! Ventress manages to kill a few clones and a couple Senate Guards. Gunray promises her an entire planet if she gets him out alive. She opens his cell and dodge Tano who was trying to kick her. Gunray locks her in and tauntes her. Luminara arrives and fight Ventress for a short while before using the Force to free the padawan. Ventress detonates her bombs and uses the ensuing chaos to flee leaving Gunray behind. Luminara again instructs Ahsoka to stay with Gunray and she pursues the assassin. Ahsoka is worried that even though Unduli is a Master she doesn't know what Ventress is capable of. Did this two meet before? I forget.

    Ventress lead Unduli to the wrecked hyperdrive room and they fight, Ventres take sthe advantage by cutting a thing that blows some steam into Luminara's eye (cooling fluid? Or is this shi nuclear powered?). Ahsoka grows ever more restless. Gree thinks she should stay while Argaius says that sometimes being a good soldier means doing what you think is right. Gunray chimes in that hever risks his life unless he is forced to and is then puzzled by the looks he gets in response. She leaves. Ventress activates her comm device. Argaius's rings and he shoots down his own men and ends up in a firefight with Gree. Ahsoka saves Unduli at the last minute and the two of them fight her for a bit but then are warned by Gree of Argaius's treachery. Argaius uses Gunray as a human shield, guessing that Gree won't risk his prize. This seems to work but Gree shoots Argaius's gun out of his hand (oh what the hell man, if you're that precise shoot him in the face it's unpreotected!). Argaius literrally throws Gunray at Gree and kicks his gun out of his hand. The two circle each other as Gree asks Argaius why he is doing this. Argaius doesn't expect a clone to understand not wnating to live a life of servitude and that Dooku promised him afortune (which he no doubts intends to spend on hair gel for his ridiculous hairdo). The traitors try to reach for a gun on the floor but the clone steps on it and decks him in the face. As Gree gloats at Argaius Gunray knowks hims unconscious using a metal thing. This is why you do the one-liner after overpowering your opponent, Gree. "You should have accepted my offer when you had the chance, clone". See? Gunray gets it.

    Luminara thnaks Ahsoka for saving her life. She answers that that's what the role of a Padawan is. Unduli retorts that the role of a Master is to teach and that "Master Skywalker must be proud". Oh, come on! They fight Ventress some more as she blocks them from going after Argaius and Gunray. These two reach the ship Gunray came aboard in and leg it out of there. The external ships are down because of the chaos so they can jsut do that. Ventress reaches a life pod and leave as well.
    Argaius autocongratulates and Gunray tell him that he always had a good feeling about him, jsut at that moment Ventress comes in. Argaius is glad "their" plan worked without a hitch and that he'll be sure to tell Dooku she contributed. She kills him, ostensibly to get all the credit for the success. We get to see his face twitching in agony. Brutal, me gusta. "I always had a good feeling about you, assassin" says the slimeball.

    Ahsoka and Unduli report to Skywalker and Yoda. Anakin reassures his Padawan that he knows she did her best and Unduli points out that the ship Gunray his on as a tracking beacon and that it seems headed toward the position of Master Fisto's fleet. Yoda is worried by Argaius's betrayal as it seems they are surronded by ennemies.


    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    That was an excellent episode. Nice fights, good twists and the villains gor to be competent for once. It's interesting to see some anti-clone prejudice. Between that, the clone's objectivel ****ty life and the show's insistance on giving thel various personnalities, I wondered if we'll see one turn on the Republic.
    Gunray was much more tolerable here than last episode (or in the prequel) as he got to show that separated from his power base he can be surprisingly resourceful, twice turing the tide of battle by waiting for the right moment to strike as everybody forgot about him.

    Ahsoka seems headed some place dark, which isn,'t how I remeber her from Rebels. Maybe her arc is inspired by Emperor Ashoka who used to be a bloody warlord but became a pacifist after a battle too many?

    This is the kind of episode I am here for.

    I have already watched the next one and will do a review in a bit but that is enough for one post, I think.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Taking a look at it it seems like the current canon might be 'the council feels you are a Jedi Master so you are - no other criteria needed, no specific responsibility confered', if that is accurate then it does imply a direct snub to Anakin i.e 'you can sit at the cool kids table because we have been told we had to let you, but let us be clear you are not one of the cool kids'.
    Imean, no matter what that was a snub. They all but said "we have been ordered to let you sit at the table but not been ordered to dub you a master."
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    are trying to cram all the memes they can into this show?
    Spoiler: meme frequency rate
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    Yes. Yes, they are.


    Is it a snub if it's the truth?

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Imean, no matter what that was a snub. They all but said "we have been ordered to let you sit at the table but not been ordered to dub you a master."
    They're absolutely snubbing the Chancellor's meddling in their internal affairs. Anakin, they're taking for granted.
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    Season 1, Episode 10: Lair of Grievous

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    Following what happened last time, Master Kit Fisto is tracking Gunray's ship to a remote Outer Rim planet. Alone with his asstromech. I mean, not tkaing his entire fleet is sensible but I feel like this mission warrants a few dozen soldiers. He reports his finding to Unduli and Ahsoka who tell him his former padawan has also followed the beacon and is already on site. Said ex-Padawan is a Mon Calamari named Nadar (Nadal? Something like that), he came with a shuttle and 6 clones. Fisto greets Nadal, congratulates him on his knighthood* and apologizes for missing his trials because of the war. Nadal is understanding even though he missed his master.

    Two clones are ordered to stay with the ships as the rest approaches a sinister fortress. Nadal and the lead clone want to force their way in but Fisto notices a hidden button that opens the door. Inside they notice a smell, but not a droid smell (droids smell?). They overhear Gunray talking to some battle droids that they quickly dispatch as the droids marvel at their chance to kill a Jedi for the first time. Fisto notes Nadal enthusiasm and chides him for his lack of restraint. Turns out however that Gunray was only present through hologram. He is quickly repalced by Dooku who aoplogizes for the deception but offers the an "alternate prize" and opens a door before cutting off the communication. They all acknowledge the obvious trap but think Dokoku's wording implies theyare the bait not the trapped and let their curiosity get the better of them (because everything always turn out great for the bait, right?). I wonder if there are cat people in the galaxy far far away? Anyway, as they progress they pass some staues representing an alien warrior standing triumphant over his ennemies. Fisto describes it as some kind of shrine to that warrior (more on that later). They eventually reach some kind of storage room full of masks and spare robot parts. More precisely Grievous's masks and robot parts. Realising that they are in Grievous's lair while he isn't they decide to lay an ambush for him, rather than report their finding and come back with Master Windu and 200 clones. This is why you don't give warrior monks command of your army, people. They also find his trophies from vainquished Jedi. We don't see much but they are a few dozen of those. Most proeminently disposed are the severed ponytails of Padawans. Child-killer.

    Cut to Grievous flying his personnal fighter alone. Dooku calls him to say that sidious is unhappy with the progression of the war. It's turning into a stalemate and they want something more dramatic. More dead Jedi. Grievous complains that he only has battle droids and that they're not the best of troops. Dooku tells him to get his act in order and that Sidious and himself need confirmation of Grievous's skills but pointedly doesn't mention the Jedi in his home. Grievous hangs up on Dooku (rude) and lands. As he steps in and is surprised nobody greets him he is attacked by the two Jedi and four clones who surround him and order him to surrender rather than shoot him in the back. Honourable fools. They use grappling guns to lock him in place and cut his legs but he uses his four arms to overpower the clones and crawl/climb to safety like a demented spider-monkey. Have I mentionned how agile Grievous is in this serie? Because I like that. Nadal and two clones try to cut off his escape but the clones get in the Knight's way and Grievous slams them down. He manages to disappear through a secret door to Nadal's frustration who has to be reminded that he isn't experimented enough to take on Grievous alone. Fisto opts to check on their wounded rather than pursue. They're dead.

    Grievous, meanwhile, meets with his "doctor" a sassy droid who calls him a poor fighter to his face and get away with it. The General wants to know why is bodyguards (a handful of Magnaguards) are all deactivated and hanging from the ceiling. They received a remote order to deactivate and charge their batteries. The Doctor assumed it was Grievous's. The cyborg tells him to prepare to repair him and go check on our heroes thanks to a control room in the secret section of his castle. just as Fisto decides to call it a day and leave. But grievous isn't having any of that and locks the gate. He taunts Fisto for a bit before opening a trap door under their feet. the Jedis jump in time and the head clone uses his grappling gun to stop his fall but the other clone falls IN A PIT OF LAVA!

    Fisto orders the the two clones outside to call for reinforcement but Grievous' guards spot them and blow the shuttle with a rocket. Fisto's astromech manages to take off with his Jedi fighter though, but he gets out of range pretty quick leading Fisto to think he was destroyed. Grievous unleashes a beast named Gore (cute) on the Jedi on gets to his operating table. The doctor wonders why Grievous submitted to this change but he scoffs at the notion. He does not submit to anyone, these improvements were his choice (more on that later). We cut away as Grievous's mask comes off preventing us to see what remains of his face. The two Jedi and clone reached some kind of arena (mandatory bad feeling about this: Check.) and are confronted by Gore, some kind of demonic T-Rex with long arms and pieaces of armour. Fighting follows. They kill it but the clone is killed in the process. Nadal swears revenge on Grievous. Master Fisto tells him that revenge isn't the Jedi's way, to which Nadal retorts that in war only power counts and that things have changed. Fisto thinks it is Nadal who changed.

    Meanwhile Grievous got up from his table and get another call from Dooku. The sith tells him he heard about the Jedi home invaders and wonders if Grievous can handle it. Grievous puts two and two together and accuses him of knowing the Jedi were there and deactivating his droids. Dooku freely admits that it's a test. Destroy or be destroyed. The implication being that should he fail he will be replaced. Most likely by Ventress who proved her worth last tiem. Very Sith-like. Grievous ahngs up on Dooku (rude) and checks on Gore. He then wordlessly screams in anger over his pet's death. Fisto and Nadal got back to where they fought Grievous just in thime to see him and a couple bodyguardds emerge from the secret door. They try to sneak in but the doctor who was watching the cameras sees them and alerts the general. NAdal decides to stay behind to confront Grievous alone. Fisto wants him to come with. Their argument is cut short b the doctor remotely shutting the door trapping Nadal outside. Nadal makes quick work of the Magnaguards but Grievous gets his saber in blade lock and uses his third arm to shoot him with a blaster (so uncivilized). The doctor got so into the fight he completley forgot that he trapped Fisto on his side of the door and quickly gets sliced in half. Just in time for Firsto to powerlessly watch his protégé's death and listen to Grievous scream that he will kill. Every. Single. Jedi. At this monet Fisto's astromech contacts him and he tells him to meet him on the building's roof.

    Fisto made it to the roof but unfortunately for him Grievous had read the script and got to him. The two starts to fight and Grievous boastst that he is too powerful for Kit Fisto to defeat. Fisto answers that that very power will consume Grievous. This throws him into a blind rage and allow Fisto to disarm him (the doctor wouldn't be happy if he was still functionnal) and fight two lightsabers against three. It looks like he is winning (he even passes a free shot while Grievous is ont he ground the noble idiot) until the Maganaguards show up and overpower him in combination with their boss. Grievous tell him to surrenders and he switches his saber off. And backflips onto his Jedi fighter that has just arrived. Grievous & Co watch him escape and go back inside to Dooku's hologram. Grievous claims victory which impresses Dooku. Killing the knoght and the clones that was expected but a Master of the Council? That is commendable. Grievous admits that Fisto fled. "Then, it seems there is still rooms for improvement" says the Count as he hangs up on Grievous (rude).

    Cut to Fisto talking to Yoda and Windu. They deplore Nadal's death and Fisto laments that he tried to oppose Grievous's power with his own. Yoda darkly wonders what the war is turning his order into.



    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    Fisto is obviously the star of the episode but it really isn't about him. It's about Nadal and Grievous.

    Nadal is obvious so let's start with him.
    Nadal is young, hotheaded, eager to prove himself, violent and war-weary. His impulsiveness, recent knighthood and darkness within make him a stand-in for anakin and Ahsoka. What the war could turn Ahsoka into if she doesn't wise up and what the wars ahs already made of Anakin. Furthermore he repsresents the corruption of the whole Jedi order. They are letting the conflict get to them and, bit by bit, start to care more about winning the war, deafeating their foes and avenging the fallen rahter than do what's right, bring back peace and protect the living.

    But now let's talk about Grievous. There were several very intersting bits about him there. He told the doctor that he chose to be improved but the shrine he built makes that ring hollow. That warrior is, in my opinion, himself in his prime. I know that in Legends he became a cyborg after his ship crashed (an accident orchestrated by Dooku). So it looks to me that he didn't choose to become what he is but he rationalizes it as his choice while still yearning for his past, torturing himself with the memories rahter than moving on with his new life. And what is this life anyway? He kills Jedi. That's it. that's his purpose now. He lives in a giant deathtrap on a dreary foggy planet with no company but a bunch droids and a pet monster. His boss doesn't respect him at all and treats him like a disposable tool. This isn't a life, this is pitiful. As in I literally feel pity for him. Until I remeber that he chose to vent his frustration and his anger by murdering people, including children.
    So yeah, I think his hatred of Jedi is because killing them is the only reason he would need to become stronger and wanting to become stronger is the rationalization he came up for his current state. That would explain why Fisto's line about his own power consuming him drove him into rage, because deep down he knows it's true. And also why after killing Nadal he is enraged at all the Jedi rather than just the ones who killed his pet.
    Hey, a broken shell of a man, longing for his own past, with no friend or family to speak of, rationalizing his situation as what he wanted rather than facing how far he's fallen, manipulated by an uncaring overlord who would replace him at the first sign of weakness who wallows in self-hatred and externalize said hatred on the Jedi he relentlessly hunts down, doesn't that remind you of someone? Let me tell you, I wasn't really sold on Grievous as the
    Prequels' third proto-Vade but that show just made the idea work. Great Job!

    What's more, Grievous is acting like a Darksider, using his own misery as fuel for his rage, refusing to acknowledge how self-destructive that is when he isn't even force sensitive. He is the more SIth-like non-Sith ever! And I don't think his working with Dooku is a coincidence either. Dooku would probably encourage this attitude to make him into a perfect blunt weapon to use against the Jedi. Hell, the fact that he can so easily control Grievous's fortress and droids, I wouldn't be surprised to learn he gave this place to Grievous as a bit of gaslighting to ensure Grievous's home would have the appropriate mood for self-hatred and loneliness. This may have been an old Sith hideout even.


    Overall the theme her is power. The Sith (and Grievous) crave it like adrug and are willing to destroy themselves to get more. Nadal thought that only power could answer to power and this line of thinking literally killed him. Early on, Fisto says that the important thing about power is to knwo when to use it and how much to use. So, it looks like while the Jedi are beginning to lose their way, their outlook is much more wise and healthier than the Sith's. {scrubbed}
    (BREAKING NEWS: BEARS DISCOVERED BY FYRALTARI TO **** IN WOODS!)
    Wow, you guys weren't kidding when you said I was (mostly) done with the bad stuff, this last couple of episode was tremendous!

    *That reminds me Anakin's own knighting way back in Clone Wars, man what a cool scene.
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    Season 1, Episode 11: Dooku Captured

    Spoiler: Recap
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    We begin as Anakin has been captured by the separatists while hunting for Dooku and Obi-Wan sneaks aboard a droid frigate to rescue him. This feels like there's an episode missing. Kenobi gets to do some Metal Gear action before reaching the detention facility. The first cell holds two random aliens so he locks the door back. Clearly Jedi don't believe in "the ennemy of my my ennemy...". As he tries another cell, Anakin jumps him assuming he was a Separatist interogator. If only you people had psychic powers that would allow you to find and detect one another. Turns out Anakin let himself be captured even entrusting his saber to Obi-Wan to make it more convincing. I mean the onmy reason this isn't maximally suspicious is that there doesn't seem to be a point to this plan at all. Anakin complains that he won't be able to become a Master if Obi-wan keeps making plan that involve his capture. "You are a master... at getting caught!" This is why he's going to kill you all, you know.

    They confront Dooku who was meditating just as Ahsoka and a fleet arrive. The Sith Lord takes the time to diss Skywalker before activating a trap door beneath him. Anakin follows through the laundry chute of doom while Kenobi tries to beat them to the hangar. They both arrive to late to stop Dooku but Obi-Wan feels entitled to be snide at Anakin over this for some reason. The pursue in a Separatist shuttle as the battle rages on. Obi-Wan and Anakin both gloat about a better gunner/pilot than the other is a pilot/gunner. If this is supposed to be witty banter it really isn't. They manage to shoot Dooku's ship but Obi-Wan misses a vulture droid and Anakin can't dodge it so both ships crash-land on the planet below.

    Our dynamic duo wastes no time before shifting blame for the crash on the other and seriously what the hell? Theya re supoposed to have been friends for over a decade, brothers in spirit if not by blood so why do they act like this? Obi-wan only talks to belittle Anakin and half the time Anakin speaks it's to be put down by Obi-Wan and the other half it's to bite back. They don't sound playful either, they sound like the beginning of a buddy cop movie when the protagonists still hate each other's guts. Moving on, they find Dooku's ships and destroy his homing beacon. They proceed to track him to some caves and start looking for him, somehow not sensing his presence. Hee throws some rocks at them, knocking them out, steals Skywlaker's lghtsaber and leave, collapsing the entrance. Odd. Why not steal Kenobi's as well? Or better yet, kill them both? Dooku gets back to his ship only to find a bunch of Weequay digging stuff out. He hides their identity and their leader (Hondo Ohnaka) offers him a ride to the nearest settled planet. For a fee.

    The Jedi come to and Obi-Wan start mocking Anakin for losing his lightsaber to a rock. Anakin shoots back when Obi-Wan's stops working because it was hit by a rock. As they look for Anakin's they are attacked by a creature called a gundark (they were mentionned back in AotC). Kenobi lets it play with Anakin (who deosn't appreciate) for a while before knocking it out with some more rocks. However the commotion has breached a pocket of toxic gas and another gundark is coming. The Jedi try open the entrance as fast as possible before collapsing and being rescued by Ahsoka, Rex and their troops. Thy then try to pretend they ahad the situation under control rather than be thankful. Pathetic. Ahsoka has none of it and let Skywalker know it. This amuses Obi-Wan. Urgh. He really is at his worst today.

    Dooku and Ohnaka arrive at their destination in a flying saucer-looking ship. Huh. Guess eevery Sci-fi universe is obligated by law to have of these somewhere. However Dooku discovers that rather than a settlement this is a pirate base, oh and Ohnaka recognized him because of course he did. Dooku's claim of being a Sith Lord doesn't impress the pirates (would they even know what a sith Lord is? IT's been a millenium since that was common knowledge). Ohnaka pawned both of Dooku's lightsabers and inteds to take him hostage. Dooku is outnumbered and surrounded and since this isn't Knights of the Old Republic he can't use Sith Lightning at 360°. He offers whatever amount of money Ohnaka wants. The pirate is coy enough to guess how the Separatists would answer to that (Bang! Bang! Boom!) and contacts the Republic instead. This matter is important enough to be brought to some of the Republic's bigwigs meaning: Masters Yoda and Windu, Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, Senator Amidala and ... sigh ... Representative Binks. Palpatine at first refuse to deal with the pirate claiming that the holographic image of Dooku he showed them could be faked but Yoda identifies Dooku's saber and they decide to send Obi-Wan and Anakin to confirm his capture (alone and unarmed insists Ohnaka) before sending a Senator and Jar Jar to bring the payment (1, 000, 000 credits in spice (isn't that space drugs?)). Sending Jar Jar to the rescue is probably Sidious's way of sabotaging the mission. Cunning. Ohnaka says he doesn't want to get involved in the war something he should probably have thought of before capturing one of the two heads of state.

    Anakenobi arrive at Ohnaka's base and things are quite tense as the JEdi don't trust the pirates (sensible) and as the pirates have Anakin's saber. They are shown Dooku's cell where he is chained into a contraption identical to the one he had Obi-Wan in back on Geonosis. He chooses to rub Anakin's recent capture in their face though and seems confident he will escape. However he does tell them to tread carefully around the pirates, less they end up in the same situation. Anakin thinks the pirates wouldn't burn bridges with the Republic as they just wna ttheir money. Dooku retorts that they are greedy, deceitful and above all else stupid. "It's a wonder you don't get along, then, says Obi-Wan. You have so much in common." Zing! The count is proven right, though, as while Anakin and Obi-Wan enjoy a weequay banquet (Anakin enjoys the dancers and Obi-Wan facepalms) to celebrate the deal, one pirate pours something in their drink. Both JEdi use Force assisted-sleight of hand to exchange their drinks with their respectiv neighbours. Anakin wonders how a bunch of pirate managed what they couldn't (not helped by Ohnaka pretending it happend thanks to an epic fight) and Obi-Wan concludes it must be a cosmic lesson in humility. They drink to that as their neighbours collapse.


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    Not much to say about that one, it' smostly set up for the next episode. First appartition of Hondo Ohnaka (who isn't even named in the episode) and manages to pull the Han Solo-ish lovable rogue act.
    Why is Obi-Wan so terrible, though?
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    This feels like there's an episode missing.
    One of the weird side effects of the non-linear-time episode orders, is that some episodes are a little too heavy with the in medias res openings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    As they look for Anakin's they are attacked by a creature called a gundark (they were mentionned back in AotC).
    Name dropped in Empire Strikes Back, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The count is proven right, though, as while Anakin and Obi-Wan enjoy a weequay banquet (Anakin enjoys the dancers and Obi-Wan facepalms) to celebrate the deal, one pirate pours something in their drink. Both JEdi use Force assisted-sleight of hand to exchange their drinks with their respectiv neighbours. Anakin wonders how a bunch of pirate managed what they couldn't (not helped by Ohnaka pretending it happend thanks to an epic fight) and Obi-Wan concludes it must be a cosmic lesson in humility. They drink to that as their neighbours collapse.
    Spoiler: Next Episode
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    And they get captured off-screen anyway!


    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Why is Obi-Wan so terrible, though?
    I believe this is the very beginning of a deliberate development of the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan; building between Attack of the Clones' Anakin never quite meets Obi-Wan's standards (and Obi-Wan probably feeling more at ease mocking Anakin, now that "respect your padawan" no longer applies as such) and Revenge of the Sith's "You were my brother!"
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Re Force Sensing People, I figure it works like your sense of hearing. What you physically can hear is different from what you do hear, depending on what you're concentrating on, and can be obscured by noise, distractions, or somebody being quiet on purpose. Too much sneaking up on people succeeds for it to be an always on unfailing radar.

    Obi's trying to be stealthy so is masking. Although Anakin has no reason to hide, so this still doesn't quite work.

    I'm fond of this arc. Like Grievous in his lair, Dooku gets a chance to show how dangerous he is, even alone, outnumbered, and on the back foot.

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    "I would kill you both right now except that I'd have to drag your bodies" is my favourite line in the entire series, because he's both completely serious and absolutely capable of it.


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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 1, Episode 12: The Gungan General

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    We open as Obi-Wan and Anakin wake up in a cell after having been drugged. Guess Hondo also was after their two drink-buddies for some unrelated business. What's more they discovered they've been shackled to Dooku who has been left out of his levitating restraints. They banter for a bit before agreeing to co-operate to escape.

    Hondo talks to his leutenant, a weequay called Tuk, explaining that his mama taught him that one hostage was good, two was better and three is good business. Hondo, your mama clearly meant hostages on the same side. Capturing Dooku meant throwing your lot with the Republic wether you like it or not, capturing Jedis after that means that whoever wins you're going to lose, moron. He charges Tuk with meeting the Republic envoy and getting the spice because he won't do it himself for some reason. He isn't clear on wether he intends to ransom the Jedi to the Republic or the Separatists.

    The Republic's crack team is made of a Gran Senator whose name I forgot with some experience in hostage crisis, Jar Jar and a handful of clones in a gunship. Jar is his usual self.

    Dooku levitates a knife off a nearby fruit plates and telekinetically inserts it inside the cell's keyhole. Somehow this unlocks it. Somebody's been ripping Hondo off. Anakin and Obi-Wan snark at Dooku's expanse and riff him on his age*. He shuts them up by turning an armed guard into mince-meat bare handed but they stumble onto a bunch of pirates and are cut-off by some more weequay so they have to surrender. While this is happening Tuk was meeting with a one-eyed weequay and explains that he intends to betray Ohnaka. One-eye is to shoot down the Republic ship, kill everyone and take the spice then they'll leave together. This isn't half-bad a plan as the blame would invetibaly fall on Ohnaka whow would be too busy escaping ppusruit to deal with the traitors. One-Eye messes it up, though depsite Jar Jar messing with the gunner's seat (turns out you get ther via an internal elevator rather than climb on the outside). One-Eye flees as the gunship crashes killing pilot, gunner and the Gran Senator. To my horror I realize this means Jar Jar is in charge (the clones are a bit slower on the uptake). They notice that they landed near acidic geisers and with their comms out (when are theses things not out?) they have to continue with the mission. After they've buried their dead. They also notice some hippo-like creatures frolicking near the geisers but moving away before they erupt.

    Ohnaka scolds the Jedi (and ex-) for scorning his "hospitality", insists that this is just business and they can go back to being "friends" once it's done and leave them in the exact same cell with no added safety. Idiot.

    One-Eye reports to Tuk who takes three landspeeders and a couple henchmen to finish the job leaving the other at base. They arrive at the crash site and manage to miss. Every. Single. Shot. They. Fire. Good news, battle droids! you are now officially the galaxy's second worst shots. Still Jar Jar decides to jump inside a geiser followed by the clones. The pirates conclude that they will die when it erupts and take the spice. Jar Jar explains that as long as the hippos don't move they are safe. Eh, basic competence, didn't expect that from him. He also thinks of riding the hippos to catch the pirates.
    They do (guess that spice is heavier than it looks) and after a brief fight the pirates crash into erupting geiser and die except Tuk who runs away leaving the spice behind. The clones notice a power line (as in pylones connected by purple electrical arcs) and reason that they must lead to the base so they head there with the ransom.

    Obi-Wan mind trick a guard into opening their cell and leaving. Anakin proposes they ditch the dead weight (Dooku). The Count retorts that the only reason he hasn't killed them yet is because he'd have to drag their lifeless corpses around. Point for Dooku.

    Tuk meets with Ohnaka and lies, telling him that the Republic sent an army to free the hostages by force. Hondo is pissed and autorizes Tuk to take their tanks to confront the clones head on. As in, he thinks his little band can take on the Grand Army of the Republic with three shoddy tanks and win. Dumbass.

    The Terrible trio meanwhile has reached a platform of some sort overseeing a courtyard, howevere they've been spotted again so they decide to jump to the opposite wall. Anakin catches it but Obi-Wan and Dooku don't. As they jumped the pirates were firing on them and one stray shots breaks the chain between Dooku and Obi-Wan (who was in the middle). As the Count falls, Obi-Wan catches him for some reason. As Skywalker struggles to climb up he pleads Obi-Wan to let the ennemy with telekinetic powers make a two meter fall but before he can Hondo and his gang surrounds them looking mighty pissed. Oh look, a second escape attempt thwarted, I'm expecting the Third Doctor to show up any minute soon. Dooku is taken back to the cell while Ohnaka decides to electrically torture the Jedi to vent.

    The clones and Binks spot the approaching tanks, they decide to let Jar Jar go to them as the clones hide, not to get rid of him but because "he is smarter than he looks" (he really is not). The pirates (who are suspiciously not lead by Tuk) reason that a Republic Representative must be worth good money and take him hostage. (Don't take the one paying you for your hostages hostage you brain-addled simpletons! You're just ensuring the next one come with guns rather money!) Jar Jar trips and fall on one of the tank's driver. It collides with a second tank who crashes into a power line. The last reamining tank is quickly overpowered by the clones (it doesn't have a roof).

    The power failures stops Obi-Wan and Anakin's torture and release them from the torture device, they Force-accio their lightsabers and start fighting their way out (I guees Obi-Wan fixed his lightsaber off-screen in the last episode). They manage to take Hondo hostage (Ah!) and start slowly walking out. The power outage also allowed Dooku to Force open his cell and strangle the guard. He makes his way to the courtyard where Tuk and One-Eye are borading ashuttle. Turns out Tuk decided to call it quit and leave before his boss figured out what happened. Dooku Force choke him and forces him to shoot One-Eye before breaking his neck. Sith catharsis I guess (Sitharsis?). He steals the shuttle abandonning his lightsaber unless I missed a bit.
    Anakin Obi-Wan and Hondo reach the other courstyard just as the tanks arrive. Hondo gloats but surprise! It's Jar Jar. Obi-Wan announces that they can trade the spice for Dooku if he's still prisoner just as they witness his shuttle taking off. As the good guys make their way towards the ship they initially came in. Hondo asks if his under arrest but Obi-Wan lets him go as he doesn't hold a grudge, after all what's a little torture between friends? Dooku might not be as forgiving, though, and Kenobi is sure to point out that he knows where Ohnaka lives. The obvious implication being that the Republic won't hurt the pirate but won't do anything to protect him either. We end as Ohnaka wordlessly contemplates the mess his greed put him in. All in all this was lousy day for everyone involved.

    *You know he is older than Sidious. How long is human life expectancy in Star Wars? Because his theoritical stint as Dark Lord of the Sith wouldn't have lasted long if he had managed to Rule of Two his master.


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    Well that was a nothing-sandwich. Ohnaka was stupidly antagonistic, Jar jar, while a clear improvement over last time was still hard to bear and our theoretical heroes didn't amout to anything. The two failed escape attempt were obvious padding that would have been put to better use by giving us some character development between the three prisoners. If they had actually co-operated for an extended period of tiem for example.
    I kept expecting the Separatists to show up, but I guess Sidious doesn't really believe in helping his apprentice out.

    I already watched the next episode, I 'll post about it later.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-06-27 at 12:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    One of the weird side effects of the non-linear-time episode orders, is that some episodes are a little too heavy with the in medias res openings.
    No the beginning is just weird. Have it just be "Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi infitrates a Droid frigate trying to capture the nefarious Count Dooku" and it would have worked just fine. The nonsensical trojan prisoner plot is what's confusing here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Name dropped in Empire Strikes Back, too.
    I don't recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I believe this is the very beginning of a deliberate development of the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan; building between Attack of the Clones' Anakin never quite meets Obi-Wan's standards (and Obi-Wan probably feeling more at ease mocking Anakin, now that "respect your padawan" no longer applies as such) and Revenge of the Sith's "You were my brother!"
    Well if it is it could have been done better, because Obi-Wan's insult are completely gratuituous making him look less "exasperated teacher" and more "prick".

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Re Force Sensing People, I figure it works like your sense of hearing. What you physically can hear is different from what you do hear, depending on what you're concentrating on, and can be obscured by noise, distractions, or somebody being quiet on purpose. Too much sneaking up on people succeeds for it to be an always on unfailing radar.

    Obi's trying to be stealthy so is masking. Although Anakin has no reason to hide, so this still doesn't quite work.
    That makes some sense but it doesn't mesh with Vader sensing Obi-Wan on the death Star for example. Especially since Anakin knew Obi-Wan was coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    I'm fond of this arc. Like Grievous in his lair, Dooku gets a chance to show how dangerous he is, even alone, outnumbered, and on the back foot.
    Does he though? The only real moment of competence he gets is his ambush i the gundark cave and he immediately underscores it by going the Blofeld way of killing heroes. He only escapes because Ohnaka is a short-sighted fool, not through his own cunning.

    This feels like a wasted opportunity to explore Dooku's character. With Grievous we got to see what his home was like, to metaphorically glance under the mask. What did we get for Dooku here? They could have had him talking about why he left the order for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    "I would kill you both right now except that I'd have to drag your bodies" is my favourite line in the entire series, because he's both completely serious and absolutely capable of it.
    I very much doubt that. While he is a match for them in lightsaber combat (and even then he was running from them in the opener) he is more of a finess fighter while Anakin is a raw strength one which would give him a disadvantage in a fistfight. Especially since as they are shackled together, he can't get out of reach or isolate one of them.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-06-09 at 03:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    One of the weird side effects of the non-linear-time episode orders, is that some episodes are a little too heavy with the in medias res openings.
    No the beginning is just weird.
    I agree. That's what makes it too heavy....I get the intent, they couldn't find an interesting way to do the setup so they glossed over it; but this was too much to try that with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Name dropped in Empire Strikes Back, too.
    I don't recall.
    When Luke's recovering from being half (or more) frozen, after the bacta immersion, Han tells him he looks strong enough to "pull the ears off a gundark".

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Well if it is it could have been done better, because Obi-Wan's insult are completely gratuituous making him look less "exasperated teacher" and more "prick".
    Again, I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That makes some sense but it doesn't mesh with Vader sensing Obi-Wan on the death Star for example. Especially since Anakin knew Obi-Wan was coming.
    Ahsoka actually talks a little about how sensing people "works" later on, in season 3.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    You know, I think this episode was rewritten at some point. Both Dooku and the Jedi crash land on a planet but then have to cooperate while on another planet. I think this was originally just the one episode where they crash landed, co-operated against a bunch of random pirates and Dooku escaped at the end or something.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-06-10 at 04:23 AM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    *You know he is older than Sidious.
    Why Dooku joined the Sith is one of the rare things in Star Wars that bothers me enough to bother me but not quite enough for me to look it up.

    My head canon is that Palpatine knew Dooku when they were Senator and Jedi and they were good friends - Palpatine slowly turned him against the Jedi and the Republic, then revealed pieces of alternate philosophy ... and while Dooku was corrupted enough to become Tyranus and knew more about Sidious he still kindof considered them to be friends and didn't think he would be disposed of when the plan was completed.

    After all the rule of two could be described as a method of hiding from the Jedi (rather then the alternative consolidating power) and with the Jedi gone it would not be needed.

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