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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Oh, that reminds me. How did the pacifists win the civil war? Like, come on. Theyre pacifists, theyre literally defined by their unwillingness to use violence. And if everybody in her government are secretly still big in the warrior culture, it still doesnt explain how she actually ended up in charge. A coup shouldnt have been necessary in the first place if she was that unpopular.
    One side wants to wage war for glory against other worlds the other side. only wants to use war as a means of self-defense. To put it another way, one side wanted to be the conquering horde the other wanted to be like Switzerland. They're pacifists in their opposition to Militarism not to all forms of violence.
    Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Oh, that reminds me. How did the pacifists win the civil war? Like, come on. Theyre pacifists, theyre literally defined by their unwillingness to use violence. And if everybody in her government are secretly still big in the warrior culture, it still doesnt explain how she actually ended up in charge. A coup shouldnt have been necessary in the first place if she was that unpopular.
    The prime minister said that they exiled the warriors, so it sounds like the civil war was fought to get rid of the wrrior ruling class. then they settled on a pacifist government going forward.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 2, Episode 14: Duchess of Mandalore

    Spoiler: Recap
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    So, it turns out that what Satine exactly wants on Coruscant is to convince the Republic that Death Watch is a small enough threat that it can be dealt with locally, without Republic military intervention. Which is a good idea because the Separatists'/Death Watch's plan is still to frame such an intervention as an occupation and to stroll in as liberators. Dooku and Vizla discuss it, and Dooku has Vizla send an assassin to kill Satine on Coruscant both to shut her up and to scare the Senate. A Madalorian soldier discovers their base and inform Prime Minister Long-Neck Almek. They conclude that DW needs popular support to have a chance to win but they can only hope that Satine will manage to deescalate things in Coruscant. She does an okay job reassuring everyone until Palps produces a recording of "Deputy Minister Jerryck" claiming that Satine's government is lying to the people about DW's true numbers and are playing harp while Rome Mandalore burns instead of asking for the needed Republic aid. Jerryck can't be reached for further explanations as he's just died in a Death Watch attack on Kalevala. How inconvenient. At least the poetry must have been good. Palps calls for intervention and orders a vote on the issue for the next session.

    Obi-Wan is worried for Satine and tries to reach out to her as a friend (they're still awkward about their declarations of love last episode) but he ends up sounding patronizing and she lashes out her frustration about the Republic on him. I like this argument, while Satine is obviously being unfair here, Obi-Wan was clumsy and a bit presumptuous and the context explains her reaction. She's angry, he's hurt, they're both in the wrong. Her speeder was sabotaged by the assassin however and the pilot ends up crashing in a building. He manages to save her life by bringing the speeder close enough to a platform for her bodyguards and her to jump on it (these things should really include some sort of parachute). The bodyguards form a kind of human cocoon to protect her which is funny to me. Pilot's dead though. Palpatine refuses to investigate the "accident" this angers Satine further which Mas Amedda uses to trick her into sounding like she can't handle Death Watch and the Republic's intervention is necessary. On her way out she meets Obi-Wan again who is even more worried for her. She is done trusting the Republic to do anything and thinks that this attack proves she's on the right track. He's worried for her safety but she insists on investigating herself as she has a contact in the ministry of Intelligence. He is worried she doesn't trust him and says she shouldn't stop relying on her friends to help her (I mean, two betrayals and one murder in, what? three days? will do that to ya). Padmé interrupts: the Senate had an emergency meeting while she was in Palpatine's office (can they do that without the chancellor and whatever Amedda's job is?) and voted in favor of intervention. Troops will leave for Mandalore before sunrise. Most. Efficient. Bureaucracy. Ever. "Counting on the Republic is a mistake" concludes Satine.

    Satine meets with her ally who confirms the recording of Jerryck was edited (he doesn't know by whom) and gives her the real deal. He's immediately shot by the Death Watch assassin. Before he can shot her as well, a police droids shows up and sees Satine with her own gun in hand and concludes she's a murderer. The police chases her while completely ignoring the man shooting at her. Where did they train? Vivec City? She fools the police into thinking she stole a speeder and is flying to section IG-44 (I wonder if that brand of assassin droid showed up anywhere). Satine is now actively wanted by the police on the whole planet. She contacts Obi-Wan and they meet on a plaza of sort where is exposed what I can only guess to be the last natural rock formation on the planet. Kenobi at first wants her to surrender herself but she quickly explains the situation, especially if she's arrested the real recording will end up in the hands of whoever edited the the fake one and will most likely be destroyed. Her plan is for Obi-Wan to give the recording to Amidala while she creates a diversion by surrendering to the Senate Guard so he can enter without being searched because of their... "association". Kenobi doesn't believe they'd search a Jedi, being above the law and all, but she says things are changing.

    The assassin attacks them, separating them with a grenade and then strolling menacingly towards Satine without even pointing his gun at her as if he hadn't already failed twice to kill her. Obi-Wan fights him but loses his lightsaber (Buy. A Wrist. Strap. You. Bloody. Miser.) so Satine has to toss it to him ( I helped!). Kenobi pins the man to a wall and (stupidly) throws him over the railing (why?) which allows him to activate his jetpack and flee. Satine's plan work flawlessly and we get to see her outfit without being obscure by a heavy cloak (I like it much more than her "official" attire. Mainly because there's much less weirdness going on with her hair). For some reason the Senate is still in session and talking about Mandalore even (do these people ever sleep?). Padmé brings up the real recording, which, of course validates Satine, while Palpatne scowls. Cut to Vizsla who enters a room where Dooku was holographically turning his back to the projector for reasons beyond mortal ken and yells at the Sith. Tyranus calms him down by promising their goal will be achieved through other means. Amedda and Palpatine apologize to Satine and she and Obi-Wan congratulate each other before wondering who was behind all of that.

    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    I like this one, a nice political intrigue is just what Satine's character needed to show her strength rather than a straight-up adventure where Obi-Wan's... Gordian approach is better suited. This episode also introduces a difference between her and Padmé: Padmé still believes in the Republic but Satine doesn't. Obi-Wan got to shirk his duty for a bit to do what was right, something he was quicker to do than I'd thought, but maybe it was just because helping Satine was so obviously the right choice. I do wonder what Dooku has in store for the next episode though. Also, I think that in Legends, Mas Amedda was a true Republican who was manipulated by Palpatine and removed from power basically the moment the Empire was established while in new-canon he was Palpatine's right-hand man in the intrigue side of things and became Grand Vizier. Here it wasn't clear if he was in on the conspiracy and this show was clearly willing to retcon stuff so I wonder which it is.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-09-28 at 05:40 PM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    One thing i dont really get is what value occupying Mandalore actually has for either the Republic or the Separatists. Theyre a neutral system, so they arent really critical to either side's war effort, the acting government are pacifists and they nominally dont have an army, they they cant really be useful for marching to war, and Death Watch already seems to be siding with the separatists, so to the extent that they can help with the war effort, theyre already basically doing so. The resources needed for a military occupation of Mandalore would greatly outweigh the support Death Watch alone would give if they went off world as well, so whats actually the goal here?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    One thing i dont really get is what value occupying Mandalore actually has for either the Republic or the Separatists. Theyre a neutral system, so they arent really critical to either side's war effort, the acting government are pacifists and they nominally dont have an army, they they cant really be useful for marching to war, and Death Watch already seems to be siding with the separatists, so to the extent that they can help with the war effort, theyre already basically doing so. The resources needed for a military occupation of Mandalore would greatly outweigh the support Death Watch alone would give if they went off world as well, so whats actually the goal here?
    To get them to join either side I would say. I’m not sure where you get the « don’t have an army » part from, these guys with the laser-batons look pretty militaristic to me, everybody agrees that Death Watch can’t conquer the planet on their own and frankly if any planet in the far far away galaxy can be expected to militarize quickly it’d be Mandalore. Mandalore would participate to the war effort like any other planets: manufacturing weapons, bringing in money and possible levies and most importantly weaken the Neutral Systems (if even their leader can’t stay out of the war surely they can’t either).

    Also Death Watch aren’t helping the Separatists so far, quite the opposite. They’ll only help once they have Mandalore in their grip.

    And of course the Sith just want to spray **** as far and wide as they can.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    To get them to join either side I would say. I’m not sure where you get the « don’t have an army » part from, these guys with the laser-batons look pretty militaristic to me, everybody agrees that Death Watch can’t conquer the planet on their own and frankly if any planet in the far far away galaxy can be expected to militarize quickly it’d be Mandalore. Mandalore would participate to the war effort like any other planets: manufacturing weapons, bringing in money and possible levies and most importantly weaken the Neutral Systems (if even their leader can’t stay out of the war surely they can’t either).

    Also Death Watch aren’t helping the Separatists so far, quite the opposite. They’ll only help once they have Mandalore in their grip.

    And of course the Sith just want to spray **** as far and wide as they can.
    IIRC, they claim to have exiled all the warriors as part of their pacifistic reformation.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    One thing i dont really get is what value occupying Mandalore actually has for either the Republic or the Separatists. Theyre a neutral system, so they arent really critical to either side's war effort, the acting government are pacifists and they nominally dont have an army, they they cant really be useful for marching to war, and Death Watch already seems to be siding with the separatists, so to the extent that they can help with the war effort, theyre already basically doing so. The resources needed for a military occupation of Mandalore would greatly outweigh the support Death Watch alone would give if they went off world as well, so whats actually the goal here?
    1) It's an industrialized planet with a large population, economically that's a big boost.

    2) IIRC, Mandalore's martial culture is pretty ingrained. Even if the Pacifist movement got most people to put away their blasters, and they don't have much of a standing army, they probably have a sizable number of experienced combatants that could be mobilized.

    But mostly it's Star Wars and things don't make that much sense.

    RE: Mandalorian Pacifism,

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC (and checking Wookiepedia)

    There was the "New Mandalorian Movement", which was an anti-militaristic reform movement, but not strictly Pacifist, just seeking to move Mandalore away from it's traditional martial culture. When Satine became Duchess, she aligned her government with the New Mandalorians.

    This led to a brutal civil war, which the reformists won. However, witnessing the death and violence of that conflict turned Satine into a Pacifist, which was a step beyond the New Mandalorians.

    So, Satine was a pacifist, but many people in her government (And the people who fought the civil war on her behalf) were probably not Pacifists, and may have bridled as Satine went beyond "We should stop glorifying warfare" to "Violence is always bad and we must reject it in all it's forms".


    By "Exiled the Warriors", they seem to be referring to the losing side in the civil war, rather than "Everybody who can fight". The people who refused to get in line behind the New Mandalorian reforms.
    Last edited by BRC; 2020-09-17 at 10:11 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    IIRC, they claim to have exiled all the warriors as part of their pacifistic reformation.
    They got rid of the warriors, yes, but they apparently have soldiers left. I mean, it seems pretty clear that the warriors didn’t just leave once asked politely to do so.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    They got rid of the warriors, yes, but they apparently have soldiers left. I mean, it seems pretty clear that the warriors didn’t just leave once asked politely to do so.
    Yeah, and the fact that they now cant just up and get rid of them is kind of the instigator of the plot. I dont think its an unreasonable assumption that they dont have a readily available military.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Yeah, and the fact that they now cant just up and get rid of them is kind of the instigator of the plot. I dont think its an unreasonable assumption that they dont have a readily available military.
    It's been how long since Vizla showed his true colors again?
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    It's been how long since Vizla showed his true colors again?
    Heck if i know, i never got to see the episodes in order. I have seen them all, but they were certainly not in the way it was intended. Thats part of the source of my genuine confusion here.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Heck if i know, i never got to see the episodes in order. I have seen them all, but they were certainly not in the way it was intended. Thats part of the source of my genuine confusion here.
    I'd say less than a week, honestly.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    I am pretty sure that the idea with the Separatists' Mandalore plot is less that control of Mandalore itself is important and more that getting the Republic to intercede in the internal affairs of a neutral system when that system's government specifically and publicly requested that it not do so could provoke the other neutral systems into joining the Separatists to avoid being trampled by the Republic in the same way; Mandalore itself was chosen mostly because it seems to hold a major leadership role in the neutrality movement and so it getting stepped on by the Republic makes big waves whereas the Republic squashing some little neutral backwater might be overlooked.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 2, Episode 15: Senate Murders

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    The Senate is debating a bill to increase clone production and send more troops to the front. The main opposition to that bill comes from Padmé's rodian "uncle", senator Farr. Padmé gives a speech to support him that she and her political allies are confident will earn them the needed votes (they are afraid the spending will hurt the Republic's economy and that the increased hostility will negatively affect their diplomatic efforts). In response, a senator with features so sharp I first thought it was another alien species calls her "antipatriotic". She calls him a warmonger and moves on. She, Farr, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa and Farr's assistant Lolo are having a private party to celebrate, though Farr is a mood-killer as he laments his season 1 mistake of almost allying with the Separatists. They are interrupted by Senator Betony, an old kaminoan who is predictably angry at them for opposing what most likely represent a significant influx of cash in her planet's economy. Apparently the kaminoan bargained for having their own representative to the Senate as part of their payment for the Clone Army. Makes sense. Farr sees her out as she's being pretty rude, even calling them Separatist conspirators. And then he keels over and die. They have a pseudo-funeral as they send his body to Rodia, there are cameos by various political characters, including Satine, so this is shortly after last episode. Lolo apparently takes over Farr's duty (I'm guessing this is akin to the US presidential system where there's a designated successor who finishes the term of their predecessor rather than having another election like we do), Padmé tries to reassure her about her abilities to carry on but they are summoned to Palpatine's office.

    Turns out that Farr was poisoned and the man in charge of the investigation is... uh... an obnoxious parody of somebody I'm not familiar with whose design clashes severely with everybody else and speech pattern are hardly bearable. Lieutenant Divo is persuaded Farr had some dark secret that came back to haunt him while Padmé thinks this has to do with the bill. Divo tells her to keep to the senating and he'll keep to the investigating thank you very much. (Is there an English equivalent to the idiom "each at his home and the pigs will be well-kept"?) Padmé & Co decide to push for the bill's vote to be delayed until the investigation is resolved (makes sense), however Amidala doesn't trust Divo's abilities to solve the case (I'm guessing because of Satine's experience last time) and she resolves to investigate herself, begrudgingly accepting Organa tags along to protect her. Does Bail have any martial background? I always pegged him as the strong-willed but non-actiony type. Padmé immediately confronts senator badguy von McEvilface from earlier as well as Botany in his office that was apparently conceived by Sauron's own interior designer. Of course they both deny having anything to do with Farr's death but the Dracula wannabe freely admits he had Farr followed and that he has had a secret meeting at the docks the day before his death.

    Padmé and Organa head there and Bail tries to convince her to leave this to the professionals (bit late, no?) she refuses and they are attacked by a hooded attacker. Everybody miss their shot and the assailant escapes. Divo shows up and berate Padmé for disregarding his direct instruction. He says she's alerted the killer to the investigation and this makes her think that this may have been Villain de Cruella's intention by telling her that. She barges into his office and find his dead body there, a dagger protruding from his chest. She says to Divo that the only person who knew about their conversation was Betony and a quick investigation reveals she isn't in her apartments. Divo has Padmé's entire crew sequestered for their safety until she's found. This doesn't take long as Lolo comes in yelling that Betony tried to kill her (very subtle here). The kaminoan is also here and vehemently denies having killed anybody: Farr was beneath her concern and the proto-imperial guy her ally? However Divo reveals that the poison that killed Farr was a kaminon special tailored to only affect rodians and places her under arrest. However Padmé realizes that this means Lolo should have died too (she's a rodian as well) unless she knew not to drink... Lolo takes her hostage and starts ranting that Farr brought war to Rodia (factually correct) and was allowed to get away scoff-free for that (also factually correct). She had met with him to try to convince him to resign (why have that discussion in the docks? They were friendly-seeming co-workers) and she killed the other guy because he knew about the meeting (seems a bit disproportionate, what was he even going to do with that knowledge?). Palpatine seems to finds this all very amusing. Divo has police droids grab Lolo in the back and Padmé disarms her.

    The bill to fund more troops passes and Palpatine has the Senate's security reinforced. (so, did he not reinforce it after half a dozen of outlaws managed to take the entire government hostage or was that with the increased security?)



    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    This was the worst of the season so far. Not much happens and this time there aren't even any cool fights to make up for that. Divo is unbearable and I hate every second he's on screen. Also, hey Padmé, turns out the professional was right and your little investigation's only tangible result is causing a man's death. Oops! The logistics of the crime don't make much sense (why the secret meeting? Why attack Organa and Amidala? Why kill the other guy?)
    It's good that they gave Farr a bit of things to do before he died and he was a presence until then but maybe he should have been more so? This would have made his death more impactful and the constant talk of his mistake wouldn't have felt so forced if spaced out on a couple episodes. Betony is the best part of this and I hope to see more of her. As much as I make fun of Senator warmonger's obvious evilness, I wish he (or a character like him) had lived, his talk of Padmé's "antipatriotism" paints him as a proto-imperial and having a recurrent character like that to oppose Amidala would be good. It'd help show the gradual erosion of the republic's democracy. Palpatine can't fill that role because of his manipulativeness so Padmé can't ever have a decisive win over him. Maybe Betony can but she seems to have profit as a motive rather than ideology.

    About that clone manufacturing bill. How would that work? The current batch only grows twice as fast as regular humans so it'd be another ten years before they could join the fight. And if the kaminoan can speed the process up even more, they'd grow old just as fast. Rex is biologically sixty by the time of the OT despite only being tennish year older than Luke, so a clone grown to adulthood in, say, a year would be useless just as fast (then again they aren't built to last so maybe that's the idea? Certainly cuts down cost on veteran retirement). Also I wonder: is Jango Fett's genome copyrighted? The Empire didn't buy more clones from the kaminoans after the war but I don't know that the planet was Geonosis'd or whatever so logically they could still be making clone-soldier for forward thinking warlords and petty tyrants over the galaxy. Though they'd have to build the equipment. Wait. Do they already do that? Where did all the guns and ships and stuff in AotC come from?

    Edit: Was this the first episode without a Jedi in sight? I think it was.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-10-02 at 06:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    The Empire discontinued the use of clones because the Emperor didnt really like the idea of Kamino being a single lynchpin he had to rely on for his soldiers. Doubly so because like most of the empire, they kind of hated him and wanted to see him fail. The clones, of course, did not really approve of that, and considered the stormtroopers to be inferior wannabees, but otherwise had little to say.

    I cant remember if it was oldcanon or newcanon that had Kamino outright rebel with their own clone army from Fett's genome as the main instigator for that decision, but it really highlighted to the Emperor that the cloners werent to be relied on anymore.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Season 2, Episode 16: Cat and Mouse

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    And we're back on Chrystophsis, this time seeing how Anakin and Obi-wan got there. We actually got the full story of their stay there in reverse order. Impressive.
    Turns out that they came to rescue Bail Organa who was there to justify Leia saying Obi-Wan served with her father during the war to lead a relief effort and got trapped on the blockaded planet. Anakin, Yularen and their forces arrived before Kenobi and his and engaged the enemy. They are getting their asses handed to them, though. The Separatist leader is a humanoid spider alien who gloats that he can "smell fear" (funny, since he's probably the only organic onboard his ship). Anakin wants to charge headfirst but Obi-Wan arrives and tells him not to: he's got a secret weapon to test. Anakin concedes and they retreat behind the local moon.

    Obi-Wan shows Anakin the prototype for the latest generation of stealth ships (who's invisible to the naked eye because space is very small). He wants Skywalker to fly it since this is its first real test. Anakin assumes he's to attack the enemy in the back but Obi-Wan only wants him to fly to Bail Organa and bring him much needed supplies. "It's more important to save lives than to destroy ships" I feel like if you have to tell that to Jedi Knight, then you failed him as a teacher, personally.
    Before he can leave, however, Yularen comes up to him and tell him that he identified the enemy commander: it's a certain Admiral Trench (presumed dead) who Yularen had lost to before when Trench lead a "corporate fleet" to attack Malastare and was defeated by a Jedi. (What army was Yularen in when that happened?)
    Yularen is worried Trench will spot their stealth run and volunteers to come along.

    The stealth ship (very nice spear-like design, by the way) flies undetected but at that same moment, Trench decides to send bombers to attack Organa to put pressure on the Republicans. There's a pretty tense scene where Anakin and crew wonder if they've been spotted, noting that if they have they need to strike first but doing so will reveal their position (and existence) if they haven't. It'd be better if we didn't already know they haven't been spotted I think. Anakin takes the risk of letting them pass and they do and bomb Organa (why haven't the Separatist forces on the ground their own aviation?). Organa calls Obi-Wan and gives him the obligatory "Help us General Kenobi, you are our only hope". Obi-Wan contacts Anakin (I love that they can talk to each other like that undetected by the huge ass fleet between them) to tell him to hurry while he will engage Trench. Anakin and Yularen think this is foolhardy and exactly what trench wants, so Anakin disobeys Obi-Wan and decide to attack Trench's flagship with his stealthship. Is Anakin ever going to be court-martialed for insubordination at any point in this show?

    Anakin disables his cloaking device and shoots at Trench but the Separatist's shield absorb the torpedoes without trouble. Trench shoots back and Anakin barely re-cloaks in time. The Admiral answers with a spray of lasers on the zone the ship is. Skywalker lives up to his name and evades them all, but that tell Trench that a Jedi is piloting the stealthship. Anakin still thinks this is a victory since he's successfully distracting Trench from both the planet and the fleet. Meanwhile the Admiral broadcasts a challenge on all frequencies: he's not impressed by cloaking devices, he's already beaten that trick before so if Anakin wants to live he should leave now.

    The Republicans cross-reference the records of Trench's previous battles and conclude he fights cloaked ships by using tracking torpedoes locked on their magnetic signature. Also "no ship this small has a cloaking device". Anakin tells Obi-Wan to hold his attack until he's destroyed Trench's ship then he uncloaks and shoots another set of torpedoes at him with the same result. However, this time the Separatists have the stealthship's magnetic signature and fire tracking torpedoes at it, lowering their shields to do so. Anakin has all power directed to the thrusters and charges Trench's ship with the torpedoes in tow. Trench realizes what is going on but he can't raise his shield fast enough. Uh, shoot your lasers at them? You have a bunch of those. Skywalker's ship grazes Trench's and the latter close his eyes as the torpedoes explode in his face. Obi-Wan moves to attack the Separatists in disarray while Anakin finally goes to deliver those supplies.

    He tells Yularen they make a good team (why? Yularen didn't do anything) and Yularen calls him reckless but effective. Which fits the description Palpatine gave of him. I guess they hadn't met before?



    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    This is a pretty by-the-number episode. Trench is pretty good one-off vilain, competent and not stupidly evil, though I still like the nemoidian captain from last season better. It's good to see Yularen get some backstory and interactions with Anakin but I wish he actually did anything of note besides identifying Trench. He could have been the one who realized the magnetic signature trick, for example.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-10-02 at 06:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Oh hey, first appearance of Admiral Trench. You'll be seeing him again later, often in the role of "character used when the episode needs a competent Separatist presence to be the antagonist but we don't feel like reusing Dooku or Grievous again".

    And no, I don't think a court-martial is in Anakin's future anytime soon. Didn't you know one of the powers of the Force is being immune to long-standing legal consequences?

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by KatsOfLoathing View Post
    Oh hey, first appearance of Admiral Trench. You'll be seeing him again later, often in the role of "character used when the episode needs a competent Separatist presence to be the antagonist but we don't feel like reusing Dooku or Grievous again".
    Eh, they usually don't use Grievous when they need a competent Separatist presence.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    There's this big narrative about how restrictive and repressive the Jedi are to Anakin, when actually they are super duper nice to him about his constant disobedience, recklessness and order dodging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KatsOfLoathing View Post
    Oh hey, first appearance of Admiral Trench. You'll be seeing him again later, often in the role of "character used when the episode needs a competent Separatist presence to be the antagonist but we don't feel like reusing Dooku or Grievous again". ]
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    (What army was Yularen in when that happened?)
    I figured, Judicial Forces - more like "space police" than "army" in the strictest sense.

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Judicial
    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Judicial_Department

    EDIT: Though, in Legends, he's apparently a member of the "planetary defence/security forces" for that sector, instead:

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Pla...ecurity_Forces
    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kwymar_Sector_Forces

    Still basically space police, but local rather than galactic.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 2, Episode 17: Bounty Hunters

    It’s Seven Samurai.

    Spoiler: Recap
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    For reals though: the episode opens with a dedication to Akira Kurosawa, which is nice.

    Ahsoka, Obi-Wan and Anakin are sent in orbit of Felucia to investigate a missing medical station. They only find a separatist satellite that launches vulture droids at them. They are shot down and crash on the planet. (I love that they put breathing masks only once they enter the atmosphere.) Also, Ahsoka is getting really tired of crashing all the times. She really should wonder how come they always survive. They have weird bubble airbag-parachutes. I doubt that'd be practical in reality, but I dig it. There's an odd ten-second moment where they see a huge creature. It has no bearing on the rest of the episode. Skywalker and Kenobi argue (naturally) on which random direction to follow, but Ahsoka notices smoke from a nearby village. (Anakin takes this a proof that Obi-Wan never agrees to his ideas.)

    Despite growing "the most valuable crops in the galaxy" the village looks like it was suddenly abandoned. The Jedi finally find some villagers hiding in a basement. But four bounty hunters get the drop on them (despite the one is heavy robotic armour making loud noises with every steps). Obi-Wan shows up and everybody prepare to fight until the village's mayor shows up to defuse the situation. They hired the bounty hunters (really just mercenaries when you think about it) to protect them from pirates who come to raid the crops. The mayor is hopeful the Jedi will help them driving the numbers of defenders to seven (heh). However Kenobi says the Jedi have to leave. Problem is, the only ship in the village is the mercenaries'. Ahsoka isn't pleased with Obi-Wan's attitude but he says they have a mission to fulfill and their little engagement may bring the separatists' attention to the farmers. As they are arguing though, the pirates arrive. And who would lead them but Hondo Ohnaka?

    Hondo tries to bribe the hunters away but their leader refuses (and take offense at the idea that she could just be bought off). Obi-Wan offers Ohnaka twice his expected pay-off if he leaves the village alone and drops the Jedi at the nearest Republic outpost. Hey look at that, Kenobi actually coming up with good compromises. Ohnaka however refuses Republic credits because Star Wars' economy makes no sense (and tries to imply that is why their previous deal didn't go through instead of him being an idiot), threatens everybody and leaves.

    The Jedi aren't confident in the hunters ability to defend both of the village's entry points. The lead huntress answers by saying they couldn't keep the peace. Obi-Wan says that the war isn't their fault (*coughs*Dooku*coughs*attackingGeonosis*coughs*) and that the war would have been long over if more worlds were willing to defend themselves. Wow, just wow. This inspires Anakin to train the villagers. Anakin starts training them, but even teaching them the basics takes longer than they have (of course) and the ronin-looking bounty hunter laughs at him. One of the villager takes this as proof that this is pointless. Obi-wan is coming to Anakin's point of view and argues they need to learn to defend themselves. Kenobi argues tactics with the head huntress, he suspects her of being more interested in securing her payment than actually saving people and it annoys her. The bounty hunter in a huge armor has an accident and Ahsoka discovers that, *shocked gasp*, he's actually very small and she tells him "you don't have to look tough to be tough." *sighs*


    However the bounty hunters spot a pirate scout (I feel like Ohnaka could have just come in force he was already there, why send a scout?) and the ronin-looking one (Embo) goes after him. Embo uses his metal hat as a shield and kills the pirate with his bare hands. Brutal. When the scout doesn't show, Hondo decides to attack. The farmers turn on a laser fence and use their animals as cavalry (against speeders), Ahsoka laid traps with the armoured hunter (whose armour is immediately destroyed, but he's more effective without it, anyway) and Embo uses his hat as a boomerang that comes back even after hitting things. The tide of battle turns when Ohnaka shows up in a tank and wounds Embo with an indirect hit. Kenobi orders a fall-back action. "Die, Jedi scum" yells Hondo. At least, he's done with faking friendship. The bounty huntress sniper is shot by the tank (despite it being identical to Embo's getting shot, everybody (correctly) concludes she's dead). Anakin jumps on the tank and fights Hondo who's got an electro staff just like Grievous'. The pessimist villager saves Obi-wan by killing a pirate.

    Anakin throws Hondo over a cliff, he hangs for dear life (making the pirates flee). Ohnaka begs Anakin to save him, the Jedi only agrees once Hondo says he'll call the attack off. But as soon as he's up, the pirate throws Skywalker in front of the tank (piloted by his lizard-monkey). Anakin dodges a blast and lands in the village. Hondo stands grandiosely on the cliff and, looking down on his enemies, deems this effort "no longer... profitable!" and buggers off in his ship. Okay, that cracked me up. The villagers get back to work and Anakin assures the mayor his people saved itself not the Jedi or the bounty hunters (heh, debatable). The lead bounty huntress, Sugi offers a ride to the Jedi.


    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    This episode felt a bit stretched, with the gratuitous "you can be tough even if you're small" moral and the drawn-out crash (what was these beasts there for?). The bounty hunters were cool, though, so I'd like to see them again.
    Ohnaka isn't as endearing as the showmakers seem to think. Still he had more sense than the original bandit leader who should have cut his losses once his men started dying just like the pirates. I feel like the episode should have dedicated more times to the argument of getting involved vs non-getting involved.


    Also, Obi-wan noted that the Separatists would investigate and we know of more battles on Felucia so the farmers shoudl enjoy their short-live tranquility while it lasts.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-10-03 at 10:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Yep, that about covers it.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Season 2, Episode 17

    It’s Seven Samurai.
    I'm not going to say whether this was the best episode review, but it was certainly my favorite episode review.
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    Season 2, Episode 18: The Zillo Beast

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    Just to shake things up, the Republic is the one with a super-weapon this time: the electro-proton bomb (judging by the name, it's 2/3 of an atom bomb but actually, it's a massive EMP). They decide to test this bad boy on the battle for Malastare, which is important because of its huge fuel production which is vital for the Republic (Oh no! A Star Wars production where fuel is important to the plot! Heresy!). There to observe are Anakin, Mace Windu and dug head of state Doge Urus as well as Palpatine's hologram. It's actually a pretty impressive ground battle by SW standards (if the writers had any sense of scales, it'd be a minor skirmish, but let's not focus on the negatives). For some reasons, the dug decide to use melee weapons, it goes about as well as you'd expect. The bomb itself is suitably impressive, the initial explosion blasting a few hundred droids before a blue wave of energy takes out everything electronic on the battlefield including Anakin's prosthesis (but not the dugs' electro-staves for some reason). However, in the middle of the celebration, the ground collapses, taking with it the clones' vehicles, including the drivers and pilots who are trapped inside.

    The Doge agrees to a treaty to join the Republic (huh, I thought they were already a part of it, wasn't the senator from Malastare running for chancellor against Palpatine and Organa back in TPM?) but he needs approval from his people's council first. Urus hopes the bomb did not upset the planet's delicate balance (considering a war is going on, I'd say any balance is already outta whack, but heh, what do I know). A clone rescue team has gone missing so Windu takes some men to go looking for it. He trusts Anakin to stay with Doge Urus and deal with the treaty. Mace trusting Anakin, how odd to type that. Windu finds some prehistoric-looking cave paintings and the rescue team who's still alive (mostly) and was attacked by "something". Windu has a bad feeling about this so he asks Anakin to come down. They quickly find the "something" it's AN ENORMOUS ****-YOU DRAGON who they mistook for the ground. A fight ensues. Anakin coming in with his fighter gives Mace and his men the necessary distraction to reach their transport and scram, but Anakin crashes (this, guy I swear) and he fruitlessly tries to hack the monster's ankle like he's fighting a World of Warcraft boss or something but his lightsaber can't penetrate the monster's shell. He ends up clinging to R2 who uses his thrusters to fly them out of there. I really like how the ambient mist gradually clears up during the scene so the creature is only revealed bit by bit. I also really enjoy its design, it's a unique kind of really thin biped with a hunched neck and third arm growing out of its back.

    The Doge identifies it as a Zillo Beast who once terrorized his ancestors but were allegedly killed off long ago. Cut to the night when the dugs are using their artillery on the beast (without much success), Windu tried to get them to stop: endangered species, it only attack when provoked and all that. The Doge, however, considers the Jedi responsible for the beast's awakening and insists they help kill it because he's worried that some kind of prophecy states a zillo will destroy their civilisation. Windu refuses to allow the killing of an innocent life-form even if that risks the treaty (it's the principle of the thing, you see), Anakin is... unconvinced. They show a recording to Palpatine and the bomb's designer. Windu thinks they can find a reserve of some kind for the beast to live out its day peacefully in the Outer Rims, but Palpatine would rather have the treaty signed. However all the lights in his head turn on when the weapon designer tell him of its unpenetrable scales (even lightsaberproof) that she hopes to duplicate for their ships. Anakin has an idea, though: if they shoot the beast with stun cannons in small gaps he noticed they might knock it out, then tell the dugs it's dead and bring its "corpse" wherever they want. They agree.

    The Jedi join the dugs, but the doge says their help won't be necessary, they found out how their ancestors killed the others way back when and are going to do the same: use the fuel lines to flood the beast with the fuel, it is poison to it. Honestly I doubt anybody would want to down a cup of spaceship fuel, but whatevs. Windu (correctly) guess that this will just drive the zillo out of the hole. Mace threatens the doge to have him stop but he calls his bluff. Not that it matters since the beast immediately climbs out and start rampaging. Anakin's plan ends up working but the zillo takes very long to fall asleep and manages to destroy several clone tanks and dug buildings. The dugs join the Republic and the beast is taken away. Not to the Outer rim, though, Palpatine wants it in a lab for further studies. On Coruscant. Yeah, no way this will backfire at all. I seriously hope Sidious has an angle of some kind here because, ye gods, is it a stupid idea to bring an animal that big and powerful on a planet that densely populated.



    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    Not much happened in this episode but it is very nice to look at. The beast, the battle in the mist, the fuel/poison being poured and the final battle are spectacular. Doge Urus is a solid antagonsit, you can easily see why he's doing what he does. It's kinda weird that they give him some stereotypically "villainous" emotes, though. Also it's nice to see Anakin being less concerned about the Jedi Code than a fellow Jedi but it is odd to see him get along with Windu.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-10-06 at 04:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Windu is actually a lot like Anakin, except with the wisdom of age and experience helping him.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Windu is actually a lot like Anakin, except with the wisdom of age and experience helping him.
    I dunno, my only experience of Windu is the movies where is personality consists solely of disaproving Anakin and unusually stiff acting on Jackson's part. Oh and a purple lightsaber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I dunno, my only experience of Windu is the movies where is personality consists solely of disaproving Anakin and unusually stiff acting on Jackson's part. Oh and a purple lightsaber.
    It's really fun to watch the prequels, look at all the acting, and think, "that was 'faster and more intense'?!"
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    Season 2, Episode 19: The Zillo Beast Strikes Back

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    The Zillo Beast arrives on Coruscant where it's greeted by tanks and clone troopers who adorably point their rifles at the thing as if they could even tickle it. As it is being driven into a cage-hangar-thingie, Mace and Anakin meet with Palpatine (who can barely hide his Sith-boner for the beast's destructive potential) and Amedda. Windu points out that this is all a terrible idea and leaves after the weapon expert from last time assures him it'll be well treated. She seems to be more of a general I-have-twenty-two-degrees kind of scientist, since she starts conducting experiments on the zillo. Some prodding from Palpatine gets her to agree that the study would go faster if the beast were dead and he orders her to find a way to kill it, taking inspiration from the dugs' fuel. She thinks the beast might be intelligent but acquiesces nonetheless.

    Obi-Wan heard the story from Windu and he gets Padmé and Anakin to petition the Chancellor about it. Anakin is reluctant because of the danger the zillo represents but agrees once he sees how strongly Padmé feels about it (rather than admit to her points about the morality of the situation). Palpatine deplores the ease with which secrets are found out on Coruscant. Padmé counters that transparency is kind of the point of democracy and Anakin shows his authoritarian side again saying that in war secrets have to be kept. Palpatine makes a for-the-greater-good-the-war-is-killing-millions argument. Anakin refuses to take a side which pleases Palpatine greatly (insert "the only thing necessary for evil the dark side to triumph..." here) and he leaves. Padmé is pissed at Skywalker.

    The doctor attempts to poison the beast but only manages to make it furious enough to break out of bondage. What a surprise. I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you. It kills some clones just after they've had enough time to reflect on the pointlessness of their rifles. The beast carves a path of destruction towards the Senate. The senate is being evacuated. The beast attacks another of Palpatine's huge talking screens (still saying undecipherable stuff about the war and the Jedi) and generally spreads death and mayhem all around. It reaches Palpatine's office before Amidala, Palpatine, R2, 3P0 and Skywalker leave through the Chancellor's emergency shuttle. Windu and Kenobi arrive with a little army while the doctor informs the Chancellor they've produced another dose of poison.

    The zillo catches the shuttle in the air and tries to crack it open. The Jedi (now joined by Yoda and Ayla Secura) hold their fire for fear of killing Palpatine and the others. Anakin starts cutting the shuttle open. Mandatory bad felling about this and "this is where the fun begins". Kenobi calls it one of his "improvised plans". Windu is confused about how a plan could be improvised "Just catch them when they fall. A lot of the general's plans involve falling" answer Obi-wan and Rex. Sounds about right. Yoda and Ayla get on the beast, Shadow of the Colossus style to distract it. The shuttle breaks and the Jedi manages to catch everyone (Ani gets to save his wife). The clones uselessly fire on the beast who's still fixated on Palpatine. R2 carries him to safety on his magic thrusters while the shuttle pilot is killed. The clones fire the poison gas at the zillo, and you know it's dying because the music turns to all violins. Cut to the next morning where Palps makes a show of being sad and orders the beast cloned as soon as the Jedi aren't looking. Obvious sequel hook is obvious.



    Spoiler: my thoughts
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    Okay, what was Palpatine's angle in this? I don't see how widespread destruction on Coruscant would help him. Does he plan to blame the Jedi? How? Or did he really think it wouldn't escape? The zillo seemed to always know where Palpatine was (except for the big honking screen moment) coupled with the pondering on its intelligence I thought they were going to reveal it was force-sensitive but I guess not. I like the way the zillo fight, lots of spins to attack with its tail and dorsal arm.
    Not much else to say, this episode felt a bit crowded maybe?
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-12-02 at 06:30 PM.
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