Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

[Fyraltari]

All of the OT were the same.

The fighting in tESB and RoTJ were a lot flashier than in ANH.

[Peelee]

The fighting in tESB and RoTJ were a lot flashier than in ANH.

They had better lighting, better cinematography, better set design, and were better choreographed. But I would not call either one "flashy".

[Aeson]

the best movie of the ST was IMO the one with zero lightsaber duels.

So... none of them?

[Fyraltari]

They had better lighting, better cinematography, better set design, and were better choreographed. But I would not call either one "flashy".

In ANH they just shook their glowsticks at one another until Obi-Wan took a dive, in the next two it actually looks like they actually try to hit each other.

[Peelee]

So... none of them?

HA! I meant the post-Disney purchase movies overall, and was specifically referring to Rogue One, but yeah, I totally messed up the writing on that.

[Jasdoif]

In ANH they just shook their glowsticks at one another until Obi-Wan took a dive, in the next two it actually looks like they actually try to hit each other.

If I recall from one of the many things I've seen/read over the years....lightsabers were originally envisioned as being "heavy" and cumbersome to wield effectively, and this was changed after A New Hope to allow for a more dynamic and interesting-looking conflict between Luke and Vader. (And somewhere between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, when an effort was made to codify lightsaber fighting styles, Form II/Makashi would take on the implied "centered on economy of motion, loosely based on traditional swordplay" traits)

[Peelee]

If I recall from one of the many things I've seen/read over the years....lightsabers were originally envisioned as being "heavy" and cumbersome to wield effectively, and this was changed after A New Hope

I am pressing X to doubt.

I tells ya, Lucas and "what Star Wars was originally envisioned as"....

[Jasdoif]

I am pressing X to doubt.

I tells ya, Lucas and "what Star Wars was originally envisioned as"....

Sure doesn't look like the inertia-agnostic movements that become prevalent later in the franchise. I'm also not sure what "heavy" is supposed to mean outside the context of lightsaber-vs-lightsaber, what with how matter offers little in the way of resistance that would normally display the effects of weight. (Nor am I entirely sure this isn't just another case of after-the-fact justification, that Lucas simply wrote and directed the scene the way he wanted it to appear and then someone was obligated(?) to come up with an explanation; but we could be here all day on that angle)

[Peelee]

Sure doesn't look like the inertia-agnostic movements that become prevalent later in the franchise. I'm also not sure what "heavy" is supposed to mean outside the context of lightsaber-vs-lightsaber, what with how matter offers little in the way of resistance that would normally display the effects of weight. (Nor am I entirely sure this isn't just another case of after-the-fact justification, that Lucas simply wrote and directed the scene the way he wanted it to appear and then someone was obligated(?) to come up with an explanation; but we could be here all day on that angle)

Luke also weilds it in the super beginner training without much effort when practicing with the remote. And Kenobi calls them "elegant" and "not clumsy", neither of which give a sense of "heavy and cumbersome".

No chance you could find the interview or whatever where Lucas pulled that out, is there? I know a lot of his wild claims from the early days are lost to time.

[Jasdoif]

No chance you could find the interview or whatever where Lucas pulled that out, is there?

I don't even remember if I originally read it, saw it, or heard it....But searching for specific wording I remember led me to this YouTube clip; with Mark Hamill and George Lucas talking about weight at the 3:33 mark.

[Dire_Flumph]

It's been mentioned a few places, including Empire of Dreams. Lucas' original inspiration was Errol-Flynn style fencing, but by the time he got into production he changed his mind to incorporate something closer to Kendo, likely inspired by the samurai films he enjoyed.

[Sapphire Guard]

I think this is my favourite arc in the series.

Re lightsabre duels, there's no one thing that makes them work, it's a style preference. Clone Wars does get pretty repetitive though.

A bit puzzling that Dooku can't sense Ventress alive, but we could handwave it with her hiding it somehow.

[Fyraltari]

I think this is my favourite arc in the series.

Re lightsabre duels, there's no one thing that makes them work, it's a style preference. Clone Wars does get pretty repetitive though.

A bit puzzling that Dooku can't sense Ventress alive, but we could handwave it with her hiding it somehow.

Sensing people makes no sense in this show. At this point I just kind of assume they can't unless they say they can. Which makes it weird that Sidious can't tell Ventress is alive when he could definitely sense her.

[Fyraltari]

Funny thing: the word "Nightsister" wasn't uttered once in the previous episode.

Season 3, Epsiode 13: Monster

Spoiler: Recap

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Following up from their holo-conversation at the end of the last episode Tyranus pays Mother talzin a visit. He offers to renew "the old alliance" (I guess between Nightsisters and Sith) if the witches would join the CIS. Talzin politely declines and says that she is only helping him because he did her a solid a long time ago and once they're done she doesn't want to see his face evr again. Fair enough. She casually teleports a cup in the room for him to drink (and I thought TROS was the first time people teleported stuff in SW canon) and tell him that some of Darth Maul's line still live on Dathomir. She promises to deliver him an assassin of his caliber to fight against the Jedi and he leaves satisfied. THIS WHOLE MEETING COULD HAVE BEEN AN E-MAIL! Sorry. As Dooku leaves, Talzin tasks Ventress with travelling to the other side of the planet, where the men lives (not really convenient, is it?) and select a warrior with both strength and skill to serve Dooku. But before they deliver their pick to the Sith Lord, they will bewitch him so that he will strike the Count down when ordered.

Ventress drives to the other side of Dathomir on a speeder, because Star Wars laughs at your puny notions of scale, and arrives at the men's village where we can see that the male Dathomirians are all zabraks. The men's leader was warned of her arrival and has gathered the best warriors of each tribe for her to choose, nine in total. among them are the two brothers Feral and Savage Opress (of the edgelord tribe, I assume) who intend to keep a low-profile. Ventress randomly beats up three of them and eliminates them for being too short or too weak (as will soon become apparent the best outcome possible). Of the six remaining she singles out Feral and Savage. Then she tells the six candidates that whoever survives the three tests she has designed will be her champion and servant.

The first test is a simple brawl: all sox of them with various mêlée weapons against her, unarmed. She dominates the entire fight, naturally and even kills two of the contestants with their own weapons. Feral and Savage do a better job than the others, Feral especially but he's still no match for her and when she beat him up, Savage foregoes attacking her to check on him. She deems his protectiveness "pathetic" and socks Savage before insulting the survivors. The second trial takes place at night, in order to fight against the force they must be able to fight what they can't see. In complete darkness the four contestants huddle together while Ventress circles them armed with a flail/scimitar hybrid that she drags on the floor. She kills the remaining two redshirts in surprise attacks but Savage hears her coming the third time and throws Feral to the ground as she passes and then demands that she shows herself. She compliments him and moves on.

The third challenge is another fight: the two of them agaisnt her. However this time no-one has weapons and the ground of the arena sprouts constantly-shifting colummns. feral points out to his brother that according to the rules given at the beginning, only one of them can survive, but Savage says he won't allow it and that their best chance is to work as a team. when they can't keep track of Assajj's position, they climb the columns and jump from one to the other but Feral can't follow and falls to the ground where the Nightsister beats the everloving crap out of him. Savage intervenes and declares that as long as he lives she won't hurt him. Savage and ventress fight for a bit and he begs her to let Feral go and take him. She orders Feral to leave and they fight some more. Savage gives her a run for her money but eventually drops to the ground and, unable to stand up, pledges his life to her, which she accepts.

The next morning Feral wathces his brother leave with Ventress with a sullen look in his (Feral's) eyes. Back at the Nightsister's temple, Mother Talzin feels savage up and approves of Ventress's choice. Then she touches his brow with a bell-like sound and he drops uncounscious. The Nightsisters perform a ritual on him that make him grow taller, bigger, stronger and with larger horns. Another bell-tocuh on his brow and he wakes up... and immediately throttles Assajj. She begs hims to let go to no avail until, at Talzin's suggestion, she does so with calm and authority and then he releases her. Ventress then puts him through his final test: killing Feral. Feral's pleas make him hesitate for a while until Ventress slaps him in the face at which points he calls Feral a meek weakling and snaps his neck with one hand. I'm not sure that makes sense, but whatever. Ventress teaches him to draw his strength from his hatred and to never sympathise with the ennemy. Talzin then teleports in a halberd which she describes as being enchanted with their most potents magics.

Talzin brings Opress to Dooku who is suitably impressed by the sheer size of the man (he's taller than Dooku, besides Chewbacca, I don't think anyone is as big as he is in this franchise). Of course, Tyranus isn't going to just take Talzin at her word when it comes to the skills of his new apprentice so he tasks him with taking a Jedi Temple/Republic Outpost to see how he does in the field. Opress gets there on Dooku's personal ship and just charges through the battlefield, shoving droids aside and mowing clonetroopers down. A Jedi and his padwan are barely anymore trouble (really the master shouldn't have told his pupil to stay back, two against one would have given them better odds). Savage reporsts success to his master (without even stepping inside the temple, mind you) and is recalled to Serenno (where Dooku had his window fixed, by the way). Dooku praises Savage, stating that he will soon be as powerful as Darth Maul before him and the two of them will become mightier than Darth Sidious and go on to rule the galaxy together as father and son.

Spoiler: My thoughts

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Right, so this episode makes it crustal clear that just because Ventress is fighting Dooku now, doesn't mean she's turned a new leaf. Now that she isn't fighting the war anymore what does she do? brutalize, murder and enslave a bunch of dudes she doesn't know. Now, we know why Dooku doesn't suspect Talzin of being behind the attack against him: they parted on good terms after he helped her a long time ago (presumably back in his Jedi day. Is there any work showing what he was like then? I imagine so, he was Qui-Gon's master after all.) Still wonder why Talzin wants him dead then.

So, this episode introduces the second big retcon of this show: Dath Maul was a Dathomirian and linked to the Nightsisters. I don't really have an opinion on this, I don't really see the point but it doesn't change Maul's character anyway (besides changing the origins of his tattoos to being a Nightbrother thing, rather than a Sith thing). Though I would like some clarification if they are retconning all zabraks/iridonians as Dathomirians. also it does lead to the rather absurd situation of having Ventress and Maul be of the same species when they were clearly not designed so. Apprently all females Dathmorians look like grey humans while all male look like horned humans (with a various number of horns) and tribes separate enough that their skin tones run from Oppress Yellow to Maul Red. Talk about some serious sexual dimorphism!

Feral and Savage are fine as protagonists. Feral is obviously there to show how far Savage was twisted byt the Sisters' magics but I like that they didn't make him utterly useless: while he wasn't as good as Savage, he was clearly the second best so it makes sense that he be in this selection at all. Savage being under mind control is intersting: until it's broken somehow it's going to be hard to tell what actions are truly his own and what are due to Talzin's spell (as we can tell that the sisters' hold over him isn't perfect). As an OC he's one of the characters with most of the room to grow, but we do know that there isn't another Sith in the picture comes ANH so he's a goner for sure. To be honest with you I know he is, because I remember watching a Youtube video called Darth Sidious vs Darth Maul and Savage Opress, so...

Speaking of doomed people, Dooku is now actually plotting behind Sidious's back. That's interesting. Obviously it can't go anywhere because of Revenge of the Sith but we might get an insight into the sith side of things: what Tyranus's plans for the future are, what is reliationship to sidious is, this sort of things. I also wonder how he plans on keeping Savage's existence secret from Sidious (as I guess the Master wouldn't appreciate him getting a new apprentice after he had him get rid of the old one) if he's gonna throw Savage at the the Jedi. on the flipside what will be the Jedi's take on Ventress's replacement: did they notice Dooku trying to have her killed? Do they think she died in that ship back there? Also: is Savage going to get a lightsaber? Because that "enchanted blade" is ****: it doesn't even cut through clone armor! Aslo: does Savage have any Force ability? He didn't use the Force once in the trilas, and nobody commented on that. I would think that'd be a very important criterion fro Dooku's new apprentice. EDIT: and if he does, is it native or a result of the witches' ritual?

Next up: Witches of the Mist

[Keltest]

I never really liked the "nightsisters do actual magic" stuff. It makes the Jedi and Sith both look like fools for only being able to do simple stuff like telekinesis and jumping. The Sith especially. Theyre supposed to be masters of the Force, and then the nightsisters can use it to literally just create items from nothing and leave enchantments on it and stuff.

[Fyraltari]

I never really liked the "nightsisters do actual magic" stuff. It makes the Jedi and Sith both look like fools for only being able to do simple stuff like telekinesis and jumping. The Sith especially. Theyre supposed to be masters of the Force, and then the nightsisters can use it to literally just create items from nothing and leave enchantments on it and stuff.

I don't think she's creating items as much as summoning them from another room. Since when are the Siths supposed to be "masters of the Force"?

EDIT: Also the sisters with Assajj couldn't sense Dooku's presence in the room directly below them, and they don't seem to have telekinesis, so there are trade-offs.

[Keltest]

I don't think she's creating items as much as summoning them from another room. Since when are the Siths supposed to be "masters of the Force"?

As much as the Jedi are at least. And even if she's only teleporting it, that isnt much better. The Jedi could really benefit from teleporting themselves or other things. How many plots have there been where Jedi X loses their lightsaber? 5?

[Fyraltari]

As much as the Jedi are at least. And even if she's only teleporting it, that isnt much better. The Jedi could really benefit from teleporting themselves or other things. How many plots have there been where Jedi X loses their lightsaber? 5?

Way, more but frankly they just need goddam handstraps. We don't know how the Sister's magic work but a lot of it seems to ritualistic/hermetic in nature, focused on objects like potions or enchantments of dubious quality (that blade seriously). They might just be counterproductive in battle.

[Dire_Flumph]

So, this episode introduces the second big retcon of this show: Dath Maul was a Dathomirian and linked to the Nightsisters. I don't really have an opinion on this, I don't really see the point but it doesn't change Maul's character anyway (besides changing the origins of his tattoos to being a Nightbrother thing, rather than a Sith thing). Though I would like some clarification if they are retconning all zabraks/iridonians as Dathomirians. also it does lead to the rather absurd situation of having Ventress and Maul be of the same species when they were clearly not designed so. Apprently all females Dathmorians look like grey humans while all male look like horned humans (with a various number of horns) and tribes separate enough that their skin tones run from Oppress Yellow to Maul Red. Talk about some serious sexual dimorphism!

I've seen attempts at explanations for this, but I just like the idea that there are Zabraks living on different worlds. We don't blink an eye at Corellians, Alderaanians, etc all being human, so Zabraks being both Iridonians and Dathomirians shouldn't be a big leap. I also took Nightsister/Nightbrother to be an organization rather than a species, more like the Jedi/Sith/Mandalorians. But apparently I'm wrong in that as Wookiepedia defines them as "...a subspecies of Zabrak native to the planet Dathomir (that showed) considerable sexual dimorphism". I think I like my explanation better.

[Keltest]

Way, more but frankly they just need goddam handstraps. We don't know how the Sister's magic work but a lot of it seems to ritualistic/hermetic in nature, focused on objects like potions or enchantments of dubious quality (that blade seriously). They might just be counterproductive in battle.

I mean, its not like Jedi exclusively become disarmed during fights either.

[Fyraltari]

I mean, its not like Jedi exclusively become disarmed during fights either.

True.

Then again, "arrogantly believing they know all that is worth knowing" is definitely part of the Jedi's character, at least in the waning years of the Old Republic. I mean any institution whose head librarian would say "if it isn't on the map, then it doesn't exist" has serious issues. Besides I think the Sith have some witchy magic of their own, what with the Sith Sorcery and all that.

Beyond that, I feel like it's better if no-one has a full understanding of the way the Force works and what it can do. It's mysterious and all powerful, it should be ineffable.

The Jedi (and the Sith) approach the force in a very Eastern* zen/taoist/buddhist way, focused on self-improvement and meditation, you gain power as a symptom of enlightenment (or endarkenment, I suppose). If the witches have a more Western*, ritual-driven approach then we have two rather incompatible worldview one focused on the internal and one focused on the external. It makes sense that both are true and both make results but also that you can't really be good at both.

It's like how some people may have affinities for different powers, like Quinlan Vos being one of the few whose good at psychometry. I imagine that if one were to try to master everything the Force can do, they'd end up bad at everything.

*I am wildly stereotyping here and I know it, don't @ me.

[Peelee]

True.

Then again, "arrogantly believing they know all that is worth knowing" is definitely part of the Jedi's character, at least in the waning years of the Old Republic.

Literally one person ever acted like this. No other Jedi, in the movies or the cartoons, espoused anything even remotely like that, and they even pointedly deliberated most things for a large chunk of their screentime.

[Fyraltari]

Literally one person ever acted like this. No other Jedi, in the movies or the cartoons, espoused anything even remotely like that, and they even pointedly deliberated most things for a large chunk of their screentime.

They also wrote-off Qui-Gon's eyewitness account of a Sith Lord until he got killed. Yoda's advice to Anakin's doubts boiled down to "Jedi harder". And they dismissed the notion of Dooku being behind the assassination attempts on Amidala because he's a former Jedi. The Jedi being prideful is very much the characterization the Prequels gave them.

I'm also confused as to why you would think deliberation goes against arrogantly believing the order can't be wrong.

[Sapphire Guard]

Qui Gon is the one that believes he can't be wrong. (It becomes even more explicit in the Master and Apprentice novel). Fyraltari, you can read these two spoilers, I'm just splitting it up for neatness.

Spoiler: Jedi

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The Jedi on the whole are very conscious that they are not omniscient.

When the Jedi cannot identify Jango's dart, Obi Wan immediately goes to a non Jedi expert (Dex) for more information.

They don't believe Qui Gon because one eye witness account isn't enough. His evidence amounts to 'he's good with a lightsabre', people like Pre Vizla can do that too, that's not enough. They respond with 'this is concerning, and we will look into it, but we can't assume off the bat that you've uncovered a Sith Lord on that alone.

They have no reason to believe Padme, she just made a random accusation of the leader of her political enemies with no evidence.

Even Jocasta is right (her star charts were comprehensive, they were sabotaged)

Spoiler: Nightsisters

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The males having horns of a species isn't unheard of (deer), but it is a bit weird (I believe we've also met female Zabraks with horns before, though? There was one in Aftermath, at least.

The magic is just a different path, it seems to be more indirect (they attack Dooku with lightsabres, not magic. They levelled up buffs and debuffs, and indirect damage, poisons and illusions (what's the word for that?) rather than being straight paladins.

[Jasdoif]

THIS WHOLE MEETING COULD HAVE BEEN A E-MAIL!

Maybe he really likes the tea? He could've seen what happened on Mandalore several episodes back....

The Jedi being prideful is very much the characterization the Prequels gave them.

I'd say "complacent" instead of "prideful", myself; but there's a lot of overlap there so I'll agree.

To be clear: I think it's more likely that several generations of explicitly recruiting only individuals young enough to not have fully formed emotional attachments that could conflict with loyalty to the Jedi Order, resulted in a Jedi Order (all the way from initiates to the High Council) ill-equipped to consider what doesn't fit their expectations; than that the Jedi High Council believed their decisions were correct solely because they were the ones making the decisions.

I believe we've also met female Zabraks with horns before, though?

Yes, Sugi appears in the series a few times.

[Keltest]

The dathomiri are nominally zabrak/human hybrids of some kind, with the males closely resembling zabraks while the females look closer to human while still being visibly different

[Mechalich]

The dathomiri are nominally zabrak/human hybrids of some kind, with the males closely resembling zabraks while the females look closer to human while still being visibly different

The way the Dathomirian species works is one of the handful of factoids that isn't the same depending on which version of canon you're using. In Legends Dathomirians are a unique species formed by hybridization between humans and Zabraks with significant sexual dimorphism. In the Disney canon they're a Zabrak subspecies.

This is needlessly complicated and very annoying of course.

[Peelee]

This is needlessly complicated and very annoying of course.

In my Star Wars? Perish the thought!

[Fyraltari]

Well, that didn't last long...

Season 3, Episode 14: Witches of the Mist

Spoiler: Recap

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So that outpost that the Separatists absolutely had to take? Well they apprently didn't put much effort into keeping it since clones are now returning the corpses of the two Jedi there to the Temple. Loking over the bodies they conclude that only someone like Ventress could have done that but she was presumed dead after the battle two episodes ago. Plo Koon suggests a new Sith Lord but Kenobi thinks the cumprit isn't a Sith as much as a reckless impulsive animal. Kay. Later, Windu and Yoda show Obi-Wan some surveillance footage of Savage at work. Obi-Wan initially mistakes him for darth Maul but Yoda corrects him: he's a creature of the same species, from Dathomir. Kenobi is confused: wasn't Maul from Iridonia? Windu explains that Maul was raised on Dathomir and Iridonia is the place where the rest of the males of the species are. So Iridonia isn't a planet but the name of the village, then? Yoda tasks Kenobi with going to Dathomir and investigating this new ennemy.

Meanwhile Dooku is training his new apprentice in the use of his brand-new double lightsaber. He utterly dominates Opress and call him sloppy and lacking technique. Didn't expect much positive reinforcement from a Sith. He does say that the zabrak has potential, though. He then demonstrates the power of the Force by lifting several stone columns in his courtyard. Savage struggles to do the same and after lifting only two much less high he says it's impossible. Tyranus replies it's only impossible because Opress deemed it so. The whole thing is reminiscent of yoda's training of Luke in ESB. To mativates his apprentice, Tyranus starts shooting lightning bolts at him. He tells him to focus on his power and anger and Savage manages to raise the two pillars as high as Dooku did while he's being continuously zapped. He then asks how he could defend himself against this attack: "A wise Master doesn't reveal all his secrets at once." With the beginning of Savage's training done, Tyranus gives him another mission: go to Toydaria and capture King Katuunko alive. Opress leaves in Dooku's solar barge. (It lifts off before he's had any time to sit down, which I find much funnier than I should.)

Kenobi and Skywalker arrive at the men's village but despite their peaceful intentions, the village leader orders the warriors to attack. The two Jedi fight back but take care not to harm them (would probably be easier if you hadn't turned your lightsabers on). Anakin spots the leader and teakes him hostage. He does it very weirdly though: instead of pressing his saber to the man's throat like everybody does, he grabs the throat with his arm and then presses the saber near it which makes it so that he'd have to cut through his own arm to kill the man. Obi-Wan asks about Savage and the leader tells him to go to Mother Talzin since what one of her women took him as a mate. Is that what he thinks that was about? I hope things don't get that intense everytime a Nightsister feels horny (pun intended). As the Jedi leave, Obi-Wan explains to Anakin who the Nightsisters are and he's just thrilled about it (he's not.)

Whe they arrive, Kenobi says he doesn't know what to expect, but he's not betting on a wrm welcome. Anakin says that it might go well, he's popular with the ladies. Too popular says Kenobi. Anakin is really bad at this secret lover thing. They immediately get captured by laserbow-weielding Nightsisters and their sabers are taken away. this end up not mattering at all. they are brought before Talzin who somehow knows who Kenobi is. Talzin claims not having any control over the Dathomiri males but Kenobi doesn't buy it and Skywalker starts getting aggressive. Talzin uses a crystal ball and gives the Jedi Opress's name and destination. They leave without further questions. Talzin tells Ventress that she must put her plan into actions. Ventress thinks Savage needs more training but Talzin tells her there's no time and she's just going to have to help him.

On Toydaria, Savage bulldozers his way through the palace, slaughtering the guards until he gets to the king ho tries to defend himself with a knife with all the success you'd expect. The Jedi get there just in time to stop Savage from leaving with his quarry. The king tries to use the distraction to flee but Opress breaks his neck with the force while fighting the other two. Savage manages to collapse a flying platform on top of the Jedi and runs away with the king's corpse. Before leaving he throws the Jedi's ship into a deep hole. Anakin and Obi-wan aren't squished because of course, they aren't and they borrow a ship from the Toydarians.

The assassin boards a Separatist dreadnought who apprently was just casually orbiting the ennemy planet the whole time. Did nobody notice? he throws the king's lifeless body at Dooku's feet. Since he said he wanted him alive, Dooku flies into a rage and starts frying Opress. Savage begs for forgiveness "That is not the way of the Dark Side." Ventress comes in and mocks Tyranus's treatment of his apprentices. Dooku tells Savage that he can redeem his failure by killing her. Ventress laughs and does the beel-sound touch to Savage telling him to remember his true loyalties. They fight. It's a very red fight: there are five blades here and they are all red, this is why the the dark Side need more colours. Would a violet or orange blade once in a while really hurt? In pure lightsaber combat Dooku can't fight the two at once so he just starts zapping Savage repeatedly while holding Assajj at bay. At one point he even does it without his lightsaber. Ventress starts blaming Opress for their failure to kill the Count. He immediately chimes in with "A failed Apprentice makes for a foolish Master." Damn, Dooku just keeps getting badass lines this episode. eventually savage just gets tired of both of their craps and attack them both, making the fight completemy chaotic. Tyranus decides that's that and fless through a hatch, followed by Ventress.

MEanwhile Anakin and Obi-Wan get to the dreadnought, under the impression that Dooku had orders savage to kill the king, They board without any real difficulty (I guess Ventress tooka care of that when she came aboard). They make their way into Dooku's cabin just in time to stop Opress from following his former Masters. there's a call-back to the fight at the end of AotC with Anakin agreeing to "take him together" this time. Look, he can learn! Ventress catches up with Tyranus who plainly tells her that she's no match for him. He's entirely right and she ends up fleeing the ship in an escape pod. dooku then radios the droids aboard to kill the traitor Savage Opress. speaking of, his fight with Obi-Wan and Anakin has tken thm back to the hangar where they left their respective ships. One of the Jedi (Anakin I guess) has managed to cut one his horn off-screen (probably a deleted scene). That must hurt like hell. All the droids present attack Opress, which the Jedi notes. Unable to parry all the shots, Savage telekinetically throws everyone to the ground and escapes in Dooku's solar barge. The Jedi decide they're done for the day (they don't know Dooku is aboard, I guess) and leave.

Savage, beaten and bruised makes his way to Talzin Temple where he claims to her that Ventress betrayed him and and the Jedi are after him. he doesn't know what to do and he's not strong enought to fight everybody. Talzin reassures him that he will become stronger because there is someone who can teach him: he has another brother who is till alive (apprently Feral and him were believed to be last survivors of the family), and Talzin's crystal ball shows the face of Darth Maul. Maul lives in exile in the Outer Rim, so she gives him a magical talisman (of course, of course) to points towards him. savage leaves and promises to return while the episode closes with a shot of Maul's very happy face.

Spoiler: My thoughts

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I think I might get whiplash from how fast this arc has moved the plot after three season of meandering. Boom! Dooku got rid of Ventress! Boom! Ventress joined a new faction! Boom! Dooku has a new apprentice who's actually a plant for the Nightsitsers! Boom! Savage betrays Dooku! Boom! Maul is alive! Boom! Boom! Boom! I mean Asajj met Grievous once and savage never did, the Jedi barely got time to register that he existed that he already switched sides. They've got to be so confused by this whole affair. I think this would have been better if Ventress had been betrayed at like, the end of season 2 and Opress had spent most of season 3 in Dooku's service.

Well, it was a pretty good episode still. I really appreciated the insight we've got into the Sith training regimen and I certainly can't say that it moved too slow. I'm not sure how free Savage is from the witches' control: did he return to Talzin because of it or because it's the only place he knows (besides the village). I guess we'll see about that when he gets to Maul especially if the subject of Feral comes up. Also why did they make Feral and savage lemon yellow if they are Maul's brothers? He's crimson red! I get that skin colour can vary drastically in a family

Spoiler: Like these twins

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but two out of three make me wonder if Maul's a half-brother or something. Also who killed their family? The Nightsisters? The Sith? I guess that could explain Talzin being angry at Dooku.

Speaking of Talzin, she's really starting to come across as more of a plot device than a character: she's always got the right magic item (except that crappy halberd) and is supportive of Savage and Ventress's goals even though it's unclear what she gets out of it and the two are at cross purposes. And really if she wanted Savage to fullfill his "important destiny" alongside Maul, why wait all this time and why send him to Ventress?

With all that said, this arc is definetely the best of the season so far.

Next up: Overlords
I don't really know when I'll do this one, folks. Tomorrow is my first day of work and according to Jasdoif's little summary this is the beginning of the Mortis arc. If what I've heard about Mortis is true, I'm not exactly in a hurry to get to it.

[Jasdoif]

Next up: Overlords
I don't really know when I'll do this one, folks. Tomorrow is my first day of work and according to Jasdoif's little summary this is the beginning of the Mortis arc. If what I've heard about Mortis is true, I'm not exactly in a hurry to get to it.

It is.

It's still watchable, though, even though I personally feel it's better suited for analysis than for entertainment. It has a few interesting bits of characterization, amidst a particularly grotesque backdrop; so I kind of wonder if this was originally an idea for a single episode, that was distorted into an arc with a mandated theme*.

*

Spoiler

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This Dave Filoni interview talks a lot about season 5, but this particular bit (in Part 1) is more general:

George really got on a bend of having an episode about the droids, an episode about the Jedi, an episode about politics. And when I say episode, I mean arc. And he kind of liked to hit those different themes every season. Because of the number of stories we tell — we actually do 26 a season, we write more than we actually air — that’s why some ideas, you don’t see.