Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

[Fyraltari]

Season 3, Episode 15: Overlords

Spoiler: Recap

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the Jedi have received a message contening a 2, 000 year-old distress code from far beyond the Outer Rim in the Krilithian System. Kenobi, Skywalker and Tano are sent to investigate. They're supposed to meet with Rex and a cruiser at the source of the message but while they're both there neither can see the other. Then all the power in the Jedi ship goes down "even the life support". Guess there's natural gravity in space now. When it comes back, they are confronted by a Xelnaga artifact giant D8 that swallows their ship whole. When they wake up their shuttle has landed on an organic mass big enought to have an atmosphere and gravity of its own (pay no attention to the floating rocks). Obi-Wan can't even tell if they are still in the GFFA. Not sure how he could have, but okay. "The ship seems fine but for whatever reason nothing's working." Then it doesn't seem fine, does it, Ani?

They are then accosted by a glowing woman (that only Anakin can hear at first) called Daughter asking if Skywalker is The One. This confuses Skywalker, and she refuses to answer their question only saying that she will bring them to Him, and that they must have shelter by nightfall. As they walk alongside a cliff, Kenobi notes that "the season seem to change by the time of day" whatever that means. Also there are no animals around and all f=three of the Jedi sense the force very strongly since they arrived. Daughter says she's taking them to see the Father and says that "we are the ones who guard the Power. The Middle the Beginning and the End."

A rock falls on them almost killing Daughter and separating her and Skywalker from the other two. She's pissed that Anakin touched her, says that the rock falling was her brother's work and tell him to wait for her here as he's in great danger. What's stopping Brother dear from throwing another rock, exactly? Kenobi radios Anakin who tells him to go back to the ship to try sending another distress signal while he follows her; Obi-wan wants him to wait for them to find another way 'round (just levitate the damn rock since the Force is so strong in this place). Anakins hangs up on him and a storm starts brewing so they go to the ship.

Which has gone missing. As the night falls, all the plant die and a man, Son, shows up.he's angry at them because his sister said to wait. Obi-Wan politely asks for their ship back which Son refuses to give yet and then asks if Anakin truly is the chosen One. The Jedi light their lightsabers (when did Ahsoka get a second, yellow, one?). He just says that what's about to happen will wether they like it or not and switch off their sabers. Kenobi calls him a Sith and he answers yes and also no, tells them to find shelter from the storm, turns into a bat-demon and flies off.

Anakin spots a glowing monastery in the distance and concludes that's where the main quest is so he gets there. He comes across an old man meditating on a throne. The man welcomes Anakin and says that he wants to learn the truth about who Skywalker really is. Anakin has had enough of riddles but has to admit the other has a point when he says it's really late, he has nowhere else to go so he should accept his hospitality. Meanwhile Obi-Wan and Ahsoka are camping in a cave, the togruta fallen asleep, when who else but Qui-Gon Jin's ghost shows up asking his apprentice if he did train Anakin. Kenobi asks where they are exactly and Qui-Gon says this place is a conduit through which the entire Force of the Universe flows, a magnet and an amplifier. He also says that there are three seeking Skywalker thinking, like him, that he is the Chosen One. Obi-wan says he thinks he is too, because the force is stronger within him than any known Jedi, but Anakin is still wilfull and unbalanced. Qui Gon says that if Anakin is really the One he will discover it there and if not then he's in grave danger here. And then he blinks out of existence.

Anakin is sleeping in his bed and you can tell he's slipping away from the teachings of the Jedi because he accorded himself the luxury of a bedsheet! Even Dooku didn't go that far! And he's woken up by... Shmi Skywalker! Dun, dun dun! (Seriously, my reaction when Liam Neeson showed up was "Who's next, Anakin's mom?" Imagine my surprise.) He calls sorcery since she's dead, but she says that nothing ever really dies. She has a secret to tell him: everything he's ever done has lead him here. Also she doesn't want him to blame him for her death and wants to take his pain away. He says he failed as a Jedi and failed her by killing the tuskens. She says his guilt deosn't define him, it's the other way around. Anakin says the only love he knows is "haunted by the kiss she should never have given himm what would happen if [he] let go". Shmi calls that a prison and gets angry at the notion that he has a wife and says his place is in this place. Then she reveals her semf as the son in disguise and blips out.

Time for Ahsoka's dream quest of Unknown Kadath of her future/potential self. Old Ahsoka is worried wether Anakin treats her well and wether current-Ahsoka recognizes the seeds of darkness he's planted in her. Older Ahsoka says that both Skywalker and her are full of contradictions and that she may never see her future if she remains his student. Also she should leave this planet. Then she merges with the campfiere and disappears. Kenobi wakes Ahsoka up who says she thinks Anakin is in trouble. I mean, I wouldn't trust him to go get the groceries without running into trouble, somehow.

Indeed, Anakin concluded that the Father is a Sith Lord (like Master, like apprentice, I guess) and holds him at saberpoint. Father calls him an idiot and says he's much more than Sith or Jedi. And Anakin is too. Then he grabs Anakin's balde, switches his saber off and identifies himself (and his children) as "Force Wielders" (I thought that was anybody with Force powers?). When Anankin tells him what happens he guesses "Shmi" was his son and admits that their appearances aren't their true forms, just reflections of those around them. He says that his children's talent to manipulate the Force made it necessary to retire from the temporal world and live in this place as anchorites like in a sanctuary or a prison, because they could tear the fabric of the universe and he's very sad about it. He says in this place he can control his children: "a family in Balance : Ligth and Dark, day with night, destruction replaced by creation. Too much Light or Dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it." Pay no attention to the kinslaying attempts. He explains that he wanted to see if the Chosen One had really come. Anakin doesn't believe in that myth, but Father offers him to pass one test to find out and then he can do whatever he wants.

With the dawn, all the plants turn back to life. Kenobi and Tano have left their cave and he tells her that Anakin won't be easy to deceive. Wink, to the audience harder Filoni, someone didn't get it. Then they get snatched up by Daughter and Son disguised as dragons. They bring them to a courtyard in the monastery where Father and Anakin were waiting. Father says he's ordered his children to kill Anakin's friends. He then asks him to chose one to save. That's supposed to relieve him of his guilt. Kenobi, being Kenobi, tells him to save Ahsoka. Then he tells him that "the Planet is the Force" and to use it. Anakin then levitates both Children, making the ground glow, his voice reverberate and the sky shift from day to night. They both drop their captive and he slams them against a wall. They ty to attack again, and he stops them and forces them to kneel and take back human form as the sky turns back to day.

Father says that only the Chosen One could tame both his children and dismisses everybody except Anakin. he tells Anakin that he's dying and Skywalker must replace him. Anakin refuses. Father insists that that's what's been foretold. Anakin refuses again. Father says he can't force him but if he leaves his selfishness will haunt him and the galaxy. They leave.

Spoiler: My thoughts

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Urgh. At least this episode is pretty to look at.
I never liked the whole Prophecy business and this is not helping. Turns out The chosen One isn't some kind of holy teacher or slayer of evil but a glorified babysitter. This just keeps getting better doesn't it? Also the Dark and Light Side of the Force aren't metaphors, Jedi concepts or reflexions on human nature they're two physical persons who need to get told. How and the Balance isn't the opposite of the Dark Side, a state of harmony with the entirety of the cosmos or anything like that. Nope the balance is the Dark Side and the Light Side being watched over by a crotchety old man. Cause you need a bit of evil in your life because else the Oreos would just be the white stuff, or something. Oh and the Force is already in Balance, apparently, and has been for thousands years. Because prophecy aren't about the world becoming better (or worse) they're about the world staying exactly the way it is. Never question the statu quo, kids! Uuuuurgh. Hey Lucas, Filoni, Lee and Taylor: having your characters talk in riddle don't make your simple philosophical concepts any deeper or more meaningful. Making cryptic statements when the answers are really straightforwards just make your characters feel insufferable. Likewise there are a lot of things that feel like they ought to be symbolic but are only there to be cool: Rex and the Jedi not seeing each other, the giant double-pyramid, the planet being organic, the lack of fauna, the floating rocks, the plants dying and being reborn, the season shifting. Maybe there'll be a point to them in the next to episodes, but I doubt it.

This last bit isn't helped by the obvious need to pad the run time so instead of Father landing their ship to the monastery and talking to Anakin like any normal person would we get, whatever they were doing. Daughter went to fetch them and then decided to leave for no reason. Son tried to kill Daughter/Anakin and then just gave up I guess. Then he's a prick to Kenobi and Tano and goes around to give Anakin better counseling than the Jedi Order ever gave him (which is sad really). Father first refuses to answer Anakin's questions then agree because reasons. And this stupid test. Why make Anakin believe he has to choose between saving one or the other? What does this has to do with his guilt over Shmi's death? Why di d he think Anakin would want to help him after that. And really, being the Chosen One is really just about being psychically strong enough to beat those two? Loving Father, that one. What was his plan if the Chosen One hadn't shown up with two companions? This felt so tackled on, like it was obligatory there'd be a scene where the hero is force to choose one of his friends but comes up with a third otpion instead, but it has nothing to do with the story in or out of universe and the third option is violence.

Anakin is confused at being asked if he's The One. Did they never tell him? I had heard people claim that th estory of the Prequels was (alledgedly) that Anakin couldn't handle the stress coming with the expectations that go along with being the chosen One. Also that's more a TPM complaint, but what are the signs that point to Anakin being The One rather than a more-gifted-than-usual Jedi? Does the Ancient Prophecy sates that The One will be known from having a midi-chlorian count of 1, 987 mol.L^-1? Also who made that Prophecy? Still, nice of Neeson to cameo. Ahsoka's visions is blatantly there to tell the audience there's a timeline where she doesn't do like the tiniest Jedi. I have no issue with that, it most certainly was a concern within the fandom at the time.

I'm not a fan of the "can we pretend this never happened" attitude but, like, as a fandom, can we pretend this never happened? Please? At least TPM only claimed the Midi-chlorians were a go-between the Force and the mere mortals. Unnecessary, yes, but ultimately harmless. This, however, while it doesn't state that these Three idiots created the Force, does say that they created the Sides which is almost as bad.

At least this episode is pretty to look at.

[Sapphire Guard]

Ghost Qui Gon is kinda a ****.

Shows up to Obi, his apprentice of many years and all he asks is 'so, how's Anakin?'

[dancrilis]

Spoiler

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I'm not a fan of the "can we pretend this never happened" attitude but, like, as a fandom, can we pretend this never happened? Please? At least TPM only claimed the Midi-chlorians were a go-between the Force and the mere mortals. Unnecessary, yes, but ultimately harmless. This, however, while it doesn't state that these Three idiots created the Force, does say that they created the Sides which is almost as bad.

So we seem to be in agreement.

Personally I don't think it is bad in terms of 'can I watch this without hating every second of it' it is more bad in terms of 'what? why? what? ... no just no - I am going to ignore this unless I want to annoy someone on the internet by using it as a reference'.

It effectively messes with things that didn't need to be messed with should be left alone.

[Fyraltari]

Ghost Qui Gon is kinda a ****.

Shows up to Obi, his apprentice of many years and all he asks is 'so, how's Anakin?'

Beats "Hmm, looks like you're dying of cold in this storm. Hey, go to Dagobah! Bye!"

[Kornaki]

Beats "Hmm, looks like you're dying of cold in this storm. Hey, go to Dagobah! Bye!"

Well yeah, it's cold. Did you expect him to stick around and chit chat?

I agree this storyline makes us the darkest timeline.

[Peelee]

Also that's more a TPM complaint, but what are the signs that point to Anakin being The One rather than a more-gifted-than-usual Jedi? Does the Ancient Prophecy sates that The One will be known from having a midi-chlorian count of 1, 987 mol.L^-1?

He was a "vergence in the Force", and was the product of an asexual pregnancy and birth. Because why the hell not, Anakin must be the most super duper special person in the universe, Lucas sayeth!

Also who made that Prophecy?

Unknown. Also unknown exactly what the prophecy says, or when it was made or literally anything about it other than that it apparently exists even though nobody ever said a word about it in the first three movies.

[Fyraltari]

He was a "vergence in the Force", and was the product of an asexual pregnancy and birth.

I give you the first one (whatever it means) but they have no evidence of the second one besides Shmi's word. And even then "he has no father" could have meant "I don't wanna talk about his genitor." Hell even Qui-Gon only says it's "possible".

Because why the hell not, Anakin must be the most super duper special person in the universe, Lucas sayeth!

Why can't protagonist just be good at what they do? Why does vader needed to be space-Merlin or the Doctor be the origin of their species? Why, why, why?

Unknown. Also unknown exactly what the prophecy says, or when it was made or literally anything about it other than that it apparently exists even though nobody ever said a word about it in the first three movies.

Technically, we can infer that it says "a Chosen One conceived by Midi-Chlorians will bring Balance to the Force." And that it was wrong apparently. Unless this is a Nerevarine* situation and you're retroactively the Chosen One once you've done the thing. Bunch of cheats.


*From the Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.

[Kornaki]

Technically, we can infer that it says "a Chosen One conceived by Midi-Chlorians will bring Balance to the Force." And that it was wrong apparently. Unless this is a Nerevarine* situation and you're retroactively the Chosen One once you've done the thing. Bunch of cheats.

Why do you say anakin failed? He killed all the jedi and all the sith, seems pretty balanced to me. I never really understood why the dominant force using community in the galaxy wanted to bring balance anyway.

[Fyraltari]

Why do you say anakin failed? He killed all the jedi and all the sith, seems pretty balanced to me. I never really understood why the dominant force using community in the galaxy wanted to bring balance anyway.

The Force isn't the Jedi and the Sith. That'd be like saying that killing all member of religion] would kill their god.

The Jedi are strongly inspired by various East-Asian faiths who believe the path to salvation/enlightenment/ataraxia is by being in harmony with the cosmos, to be "one" with it. That's the balance the Jedi are seeking on a personnal level. The Blanace isn't between the Jedi or the Sith or even between Light and Dark Side of the Force, the Light is the Balance while the Dark is the Balance. To bring Balance not to oneself but to the Force itself, woud be the complete eradication of the Dark Side itself. It'd be bringing the entire cosmos into harmony, eradicating all suffering, want, violence and hatred. Since killing Darth Sidious didn't magically turn the galaxy into a utopia of perfect niceness, I feel confidet saying that Anakin failed to bring Balance to the Force.

[Mechalich]

The Force isn't the Jedi and the Sith. That'd be like saying that killing all member of religion] would kill their god.

The Jedi are strongly inspired by various East-Asian faiths who believe the path to salvation/enlightenment/ataraxia is by being in harmony with the cosmos, to be "one" with it. That's the balance the Jedi are seeking on a personnal level. The Blanace isn't between the Jedi or the Sith or even between Light and Dark Side of the Force, the Light is the Balance while the Dark is the Balance. To bring Balance not to oneself but to the Force itself, woud be the complete eradication of the Dark Side itself. It'd be bringing the entire cosmos into harmony, eradicating all suffering, want, violence and hatred. Since killing Darth Sidious didn't magically turn the galaxy into a utopia of perfect niceness, I feel confidet saying that Anakin failed to bring Balance to the Force.

It's plausible to imagine a scenario where Palpatine and Vader's deaths at Endor sever the Sith lineage and the galaxy becomes not perfect but an awful lot more harmonious over time. There'd definitely be some cleaning up to do for a decade or two, but things certainly got better.

For example, if you say that the Force has 10 points total, and rank them dark vs. light, then the PT might be the even point, 5 Light/5 Dark. The Founding of the Empire crashes it down to 1 Light/9 Dark. The death of Palpatine spikes the Light side and puts it on a trajectory to the opposite end, Light 9/Dark 1, though it might take decades or even centuries for the state of the secular galaxy to match that of the Force.

Now, no one could leave well enough alone. The Legends timeline allows both champions of the dark to re-emerge regularly and has the champions of the light stumble mightily, before finally just giving up and letting anti-Force aliens invade the galaxy en masse (an event that out-scales the original films entirely). The Disney timeline hits the reset button instead, setting everything back to that 5/5 unstable equilibrium for TFA.

Spoiler

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I'm not a fan of the "can we pretend this never happened" attitude but, like, as a fandom, can we pretend this never happened? Please? At least TPM only claimed the Midi-chlorians were a go-between the Force and the mere mortals. Unnecessary, yes, but ultimately harmless. This, however, while it doesn't state that these Three idiots created the Force, does say that they created the Sides which is almost as bad.

Personally I'm a fan of the 'this is all a metaphor' approach.

[Peelee]

Why do you say anakin failed? He killed all the jedi and all the sith, seems pretty balanced to me.

Not what that means. If half your body is healthy cells and half your body is cancerous cells, your body is not balanced. Canonically "bring balance to the force" means "destroy the Sith". Of course, since the Jedi believes they were already destroyed, the Sith must at some point rise again is the prophecy is to come true. And, after Anakin canonically brought balance to the Force by destroying Palpatine and killing himself, the Sith returned again anyway in the sequel trilogy.

Its turtles bad writing all the way down. They should wipe everything except the OT and redo it all. Except with actual talented writers this time.

[dancrilis]

Also who made that Prophecy?

Jedi Mystics apparently (see source below).

Not what that means.

I have heard that before it is apparent debatable, source.

Some people thought that the light side of the Force and the dark side of the Force had to be equal to each other in order to create balance, while others believed that the light could be the Force in its natural state, making the dark side the cause of imbalance.

[Fyraltari]

So we seem to be in agreement.

Looks like,yes.

Well yeah, it's cold. Did you expect him to stick around and chit chat?

No but maybe he didn't have to wait for a life or death situation to pop up and say that. Then again an argument could be made that he saved Luke's life there, if Luke calling out "Ben!" is what made Han find him.

For example, if you say that the Force has 10 points total, and rank them dark vs. light, then the PT might be the even point, 5 Light/5 Dark. The Founding of the Empire crashes it down to 1 Light/9 Dark. The death of Palpatine spikes the Light side and puts it on a trajectory to the opposite end, Light 9/Dark 1, though it might take decades or even centuries for the state of the secular galaxy to match that of the Force.

I don't understand how your point system works.

Personally I'm a fan of the 'this is all a metaphor' approach.

What is a metaphor for what?

Jedi Mystics apparently (see source below).

Well, that narrows it down. We've eliminated all the Jedi materialists who don't believe in all that "Force" nonsense.

I have heard that before it is apparent debatable, source.

Which would make some kind of sense if the Dark Side wasn't constantly making people super-evil regardless of their original intentions. "The universe needs to be at equilibrium between heroism and child-murder" isn't really great as far as philosophical statements go.

[Mechalich]

I don't understand how your point system works.

The Force is an energy field. It's constantly in flux. At any given time some portion of the waveform will be affiliated with the light, and some portion with the dark. Balance in terms of proportionality would imply 50/50. Balance in terms of stability, of what is the state where the system is the most stable, would be one that's entirely light or entirely dark. Now a complete light or complete dark system isn't possible (well, it might be in theory, but it would mean the end of the universe so it's not a viable option anyway), so the best that can be hoped for is nearly total dominance by the light side. A 50/50 mix in proportionality is actually the least stable scenario and leaders to gigantic, horrible conflict.

The second point is that because the Force influences the galaxy, shifts in the proportional representation of the Force are a leading indicator. Galactic events lag changes in the Force. The Jedi sense that the Force is growing dark well before the Clone Wars breaks out. The dark side triumphs during Revenge of the Sith, but life in the galaxy doesn't get measurably worse for almost a decade, and the Empire is still consolidating power during ANH.

At the conclusion of Return of the Jedi then, the Force moves back into balance - the waveform of the field shifts to being almost completely light dominated, but it takes the galaxy a decade or two to shift back. We would expect a transition to happy peace time to finish up around 15-20 ABY. In Legends, that's what happened (the Hand of Thrawn Duology takes place in 19 ABY). In the Disney canon not so much.

What is a metaphor for what?

The entire Mortis arc can be interpreted as a vision quest, it's all in Anakin's head. The whole thing is a visual representation of his bonds, struggles, and internal conflict. The Ones are manifestations of different aspects of the Force in a form his conscious mind can comprehend (Yoda, in a similar scenario later in the series, encounters an alternative set of manifestations).

[Fyraltari]

The Force is an energy field. It's constantly in flux. At any given time some portion of the waveform will be affiliated with the light, and some portion with the dark. Balance in terms of proportionality would imply 50/50. Balance in terms of stability, of what is the state where the system is the most stable, would be one that's entirely light or entirely dark. Now a complete light or complete dark system isn't possible (well, it might be in theory, but it would mean the end of the universe so it's not a viable option anyway), so the best that can be hoped for is nearly total dominance by the light side. A 50/50 mix in proportionality is actually the least stable scenario and leaders to gigantic, horrible conflict.

The second point is that because the Force influences the galaxy, shifts in the proportional representation of the Force are a leading indicator. Galactic events lag changes in the Force. The Jedi sense that the Force is growing dark well before the Clone Wars breaks out. The dark side triumphs during Revenge of the Sith, but life in the galaxy doesn't get measurably worse for almost a decade, and the Empire is still consolidating power during ANH.

At the conclusion of Return of the Jedi then, the Force moves back into balance - the waveform of the field shifts to being almost completely light dominated, but it takes the galaxy a decade or two to shift back. We would expect a transition to happy peace time to finish up around 15-20 ABY. In Legends, that's what happened (the Hand of Thrawn Duology takes place in 19 ABY). In the Disney canon not so much.

I don't really like this headcanon. Too dualistic for me, I like the idea that Dark/Light Side is a Jedi concept and other traditions have other ideas about the Force that are no less wrong.

The entire Mortis arc can be interpreted as a vision quest, it's all in Anakin's head. The whole thing is a visual representation of his bonds, struggles, and internal conflict. The Ones are manifestations of different aspects of the Force in a form his conscious mind can comprehend (Yoda, in a similar scenario later in the series, encounters an alternative set of manifestations).

Not a fan of the "it was all a dream" ending, I gotta say.

Season 3, Episode 16: Altar of Mortis
You know, it's kinda weird that this show has a habit of giving names in the opening narration of the second part of arcs, like "the Nightsisters" or "Mortis". Speaking of, what kind of a name for a planet is Mortis? It's Latin for "of Death" why have the embodiments of the Force hang out on the Planet of Death? that's weirdly ominous. Anyway,

Spoiler: Recap

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The narration says the daughet aligns with the Light Side, while the Son drifts ever closer to the Dark Side. So they're just stupidly powerful Force-wielders, then? Not embodiments of the Sides?
We get back to our three Jedi as they leave and Anakin decided to have a nap, not using a badsheet this time, probably so that Obi-Wan doesn't discover the extant of his corruption. He dreams of a voice calling to him (sounds like Qui-Gon, but Neeson isn't credited?), then the Son comes (disguised as a second Anakin for all of three econds for reasons no doubt beyond mortal ken) and offers him to join him and together they shall rule the Galaxy as father and son change the balance of the universe. Anakin says he'll never join the Dark Side willingly*. The Son says the Light and dark Side can't exist without each other and that the two of them can restore balance wherever they go. And destroy the Sith too. And the Jedi. And your little dog too!

Anakin wakes up aaand the son has teleported inside the ship, grabbed Ahsoka and jumps out of the ship with her saying that Anakin won't leave so soon. Anakin takes the wheel and pursues the Son (whot turned into his dragon form again). After chasing him through mist they nearly collide with a giant tower and crash on the ground. You know, I'm really starting to doubt that Anakin is "the greatest space-pilot in the galaxy." "I didn't think you saw it. -It was a giant tower! Of course, I saw it!" Okay, you get one point, episode. Since the tower is the only building in the vicinity, it's pretty obvious where the Son took Ahsoka. Anakin, naturally, wants to rush h eadfirst into danger. Obi-Wan points out that they don't really understand what they're dealing with, that the Dark Side is very powerful in this area and that conflict in this place could have "dire repercussion for the universe at large" (so the Family are embodiments of the force?) so they should really go ask the Father's advice. Skywalker doesn't listen.

ahsoka is chained up inside the tower. A goblin-like creature shows up, frees her and tell her that she's been left behind and should forget her master. Then he bites her, revelas himself as the Son and claims that she is his now as her skin becomes grayer and full of cracks. Obi-Wan apprently twiddled his thumbs for a while and starts wondering how exactly he's going to find the Father. Then he turns around and the Monastery is right there. Convenient. Feels like you could have done that last episode, eh, Father? Up inside, Father and Son are having a talk, the Father accuses the Son of having become vain and chossing the Dark Side (so they're not embodiments of the Force?). The Father threatens to "contain" his Son if he doesnt stop it (what even more than you already are?). The Son then says that he's tired of waiting for his dad's death, throws red ligthning at him nd catapults him down the entry stairs. just as Obi-Wan arrives.

The Daughter takes her dad to his room and decretes he needs some rest. Obi-Wan explains the situation. She doesn't believe that the Son tried to kill their father "he would never do such a thing." Then Kenobi says he's seen him. "It's not his fault. My nature is to do what is selfless, but my brother's will always be to do what is selfish." Make up your mind, Lady! (so they are embodiments of the Force?) Obi-Wan wants her to help Anakin stop the Son before he rampages through the Galaxy, she doesn't want to but decides to take him to the titular Altar deep in a cave. She can't reach it but OBi-Wan could, on the altar is a blade that can control the Son. well it's just a handle but when you grip it a metallic balde forms. (Oh, gods is that supposed to be the in-universe inspiration for the lightsabers?)

Anakin managed to climb the tower up to some garden where Ahsoka is waiting for him. Tano asks if he's proud of her. Then she says he should join the Son. Then she starts ranting about how he doesn't trust her. Finally she says that if he doesn't join the Son she'll die. Then she attacks him. The Son is watching from inside and is joined by his sister and Kenobi. She asks him if he attacked their Father. "He is just so selfish and... and was taking to long to die." I odn't know exactly why but I love that delivery. It's like he went from Evil Overlord to little boy and back in the span of three seconds but still being horrible during it. the daughter says she won't let him leave. He points out that she's not strong enough to stop him and that the Chosen One already has his plate full at the moment. Anakin and Ahsoka are still fighting and she gets angry when he calls her "Snips" saying she hates it when he does that. You should just call him "Skyguy" to even the score. Though to be frank, they seldom call each other that really, I kinda forgot that was her nickname, even. Also you can tell she's not herself because she's wielding her lightsaber in a non-reversed grip. When Obi-Wan shows up, she ignites her scond lightsaber (seriously where did she get that?)

The Daughter realizes that the Son is feeding on the conflict and tries to stop the Jedi, but the Son attacks her. Caster fight! That wakes the Father up. Meanwhile Obi-Wan suggests they free Ahsoka by using the altar blade since it can kill the Son. Not what the Daughter said, but okay. the Fight between the siblings evolved into a dragon fight (though, the Daughter is actually more of a griffon, really). It's about matched until Daddy comes home to yell at his kids and throws them through a window. You know, Father, your son might not have tried to kill you if you weren't such a gigantic *******. They all end up in the garden/courtyard where the Jedi are.

The Son overpowers his Father so Kenobi throws Anakin the altar sword, which ahsoka intercepts and brings to the son. "Everything has transpired exactly as I planned." Yeah, right. The Son decalres Ahsoka's usefulness over and touches her forehead, making her collapse to the ground. The Son goes to stab the father but the Daughter throws herself between her. You know you could have tackled him, right? The Son doesn't take sororicide instead of parricide well and flies aways screaming.

Anakin rushes to Ahsoka's side while the Daughter implores her father to not hate her brother. the father says that all is lost as the balance is broken. Anakin only cares about his padawan, though. the Father says there's no hope, Anakin says there's always hope. The Daughter worldessly gestures towards the togruta. The Father decides to help her Daughter's last act to be saving Ahsoka. Both he and Skywalker places themselves between the two and make the same gestures while Anakin and the two women glow as the Force's theme is blasting. Ahsoka wakes up and asks what's going on. The Father says that as his son descends into the Dark Side (so they're not, ah, screw it) the sith will become more powerful and the Clone war more intese. Anakin wants to stop him but the Father says they must leave immediately because "He needs your ship to leave the planet."

Spoiler: Oh, come on!

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The Father is just gonna stay and mourn.

Spoiler: My thoughts

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well, it's not as bad as the previous one but it's still not good. And the pretty factor is gone.
Why do they even have the blade?
The constant flip-flopping on whether the Son is (of) the Dark Side or was corrupted by it makes me think there was two visins at play during the writing of the episode. Anyone has any info on this? this makes his actions really weird since they make sense in one optic and not the other. If he's just a really powerful darksider, he needs the ship so keeping the Jedi on Mortis makes sense but not trying to kill the Father (he's already dying) and trying to corrupt Anakin. If he is the Dark Side, he should be content to let them leave knowing full well that it'll soon come to the point where his Father will be weak enough for him to kill him himself.
Also if they're not embodiments of the Force, I suppose the father didn't make his Children by parthogenesis so I wonder if they're a Mother around. What would she be aligned with? The Nightsisters? Please, tell me it's not going to be Mother Talzin.

Gonna wait for the next episode before commenting on Ahsoka and Anakin and The Daughter and the Son's respective relationships.

Next up: Ghosts of Mortis

*Major issue with the Prequels, right there.

[Dire_Flumph]

Also if they're not embodiments of the Force, I suppose the father didn't make his Children by parthogenesis so I wonder if they're a Mother around. What would she be aligned with? The Nightsisters? Please, tell me it's not going to be Mother Talzin.

Disney's Atlantis put it best:

"You don't wanna know, trust me. Audrey, don't tell him. You shouldn't have told me, but you did and know I'm telling you, you don't wanna know!"

[Peelee]

I don't really like this headcanon. Too dualistic for me, I like the idea that Dark/Light Side is a Jedi concept and other traditions have other ideas about the Force that are no less wrong.

Seconded. Disney needs to try to get people who can introduce that into the Canon. Doubt they will though.

[Fyraltari]

Seconded. Disney needs to try to get people who can introduce that into the Canon. Doubt they will though.

Well, I remember one (boooring) book about people onna starship exchanging stories about Luke Skywalker, one of which had him encounter a bunch of people who called the Force "The Flow" or something to that extent. I don't remember much about that book (including the title) but I thought that was a step in that direction.

Edit: found it. It was The Legends of Luke Skywalker by Ken Liu of all people.

[dancrilis]

Which would make some kind of sense if the Dark Side wasn't constantly making people super-evil regardless of their original intentions. "The universe needs to be at equilibrium between heroism and child-murder" isn't really great as far as philosophical statements go.

From one prespective without evil there can be no good - so without villians there would be no heroes.

But another view might be to think of it as a Sith/Jedi viewpoint - both groups believe that if you take steps outside of the 'light' you might as well be a child killer.

If this view point is wrong and that the light side of force is merely allowing yourself to be guided by what is good for the universe and the dark side is merely allowing yourself to be guided by what is good for yourself then it is possible that life does require balance between the two (a problem being that The Jedi start to see you as a potential threat to the galaxy as soon as you act a bit selfish - marry, enjoy the comfort of a mattress, own a cat etc).

[Fyraltari]

From one prespective without evil there can be no good - so without villians there would be no heroes.

That's nonsense the very definition of evil is the lack of good. The idea that good needs evil to exist is self contradictory.

I also finds the argument of "if there's no 'eed for heroes, then there wouldn't be heroes" to be rather unconvincing. Like, yes, and?

If this view point is wrong and that the light side of force is merely allowing yourself to be guided by what is good for the universe and the dark side is merely allowing yourself to be guided by what is good for yourself then it is possible that life does require balance between the two (a problem being that The Jedi start to see you as a potential threat to the galaxy as soon as you act a bit selfish - marry, enjoy the comfort of a mattress, own a cat etc).

Except that the Dark Side is also pretty much always portrayed as self-destructing and in some case actually physically harmful to the wielder. I would also question the separation of what's good for the universe vs what's good for yourself since yourself is very much a part of the universe.

[dancrilis]

That's nonsense the very definition of evil is the lack of good. The idea that good needs evil to exist is self contradictory.

No it isn't - firstly both good and evil have have multiple definations, secondly the idea that without good you are evil is very dubious (I understand where it comes from but that would breach forum rules).

Further if evil were a lack of good then things that were not capable of being (morally) good (electrons, tables, galaxies, ladders) would be (morally) evil.

I also finds the argument of "if there's no 'eed for heroes, then there wouldn't be heroes" to be rather unconvincing. Like, yes, and?

The Star Wars universe exists to tell stories - without villians those stories don't get told and so the universe would effectively never have formed, further without villians no new stories would be told so the universe would effectively die.
In order for the universe to be healthy villians must exist.

I would also question the separation of what's good for the universe vs what's good for yourself since yourself is very much a part of the universe.

Consider it small scale - you want a promotion (good for you) you know that the other person in line for the job would be better at it (good for the company and its employees - i.e the universe) - you would be able for the job taking it wouldn't hurt your career (and would help) just you wouldn't be as good at it.
The Dark Side would tell you take the job, the Light Side would tell you let the better person have it - under this theory at least.

[Kornaki]

Now I want a star wars universe where the sith are genre savvy to know that the whole world ceases to exist if its stories aren't told, so get up to murdering just to keep the stories flowing.

[Peelee]

Now I want a star wars universe where the sith are genre savvy to know that the whole world ceases to exist if its stories aren't told, so get up to murdering just to keep the stories flowing.

Even genre savvy worlds know that the stories never end, there's just a point at which the storyteller stops talking.

[Kornaki]

Even genre savvy worlds know that the stories never end, there's just a point at which the storyteller stops talking.

No, they're genre savvy enough to know that they are literally just characters in a story that someone is making up . If the storyteller stops talking, their world ceases to exist literally. So they commit evil acts that are justified by continuing to make the story interesting.

[Peelee]

No, they're genre savvy enough to know that they are literally just characters in a story that someone is making up . If the storyteller stops talking, their world ceases to exist literally. So they commit evil acts that are justified by continuing to make the story interesting.

Except when another storyteller starts talking later, the world existed the entire time and all the things that happened between the stories happened, so it doesn't matter if there's a gap between the storytellers.

I should also note om generally not a fan of such 4th wall broken-news, so I very much would hate such a Star Wars universe.

[Fyraltari]

Season 3, Episode 17: Ghosts of Mortis

Spoiler: Recap

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Anakin and Obi-Wan are talking while Ahsoka repairs the ship. Hey, why isn't the mecanical/engineering genius the one doing it? What's more I would think Ahsoka would have needed some rest after, you know, dying. They're in no condition to take-off and even after repairs, Tano can't guarantee the ship could go any further than the planet's atmosphere. Well it's not like they would know where to go once they'd reached that point anyway. Anakin isn't convinced they should leave right away and he decides to go see the Father to have "his blessing to leave". Bitch, he's the one who told you to your asses off this place at once.

Meanwhile, the Celestial Daddy is putting his Daughter to rest (did they always have this place or did he build the tomb for the occasion?) with the sword. Anakin shows up and the Father tells him he should really leave before the Son tries to use him. He also says that he's going to make up for his mistake by killing the Son. I feel like you should take the sword designed for this express purpose with you, then, old man. Anakin says he wants to help but Sky-grandad says it's a bit late for that and that their destinies are clouded. He points him in a direction and says that by going there Skywalker will know what to do. He does and who does he find there but good ol' Qui-Gon. Jinn asks if he believes he's the Chosen One (aren't we past this, by now?) and say that he believes Anakin is going to bring Balance to the Force and save the Universe. He also tells him to neither leave nor kill the Son but go to a nearby place strong in the Dark Side and remember his training as well as trust his instinct. And then he ghosts out. Dying really made him unhelpful, heh?

Obi-Wan brings Ahsoka some orange coffee or whatever and gives her some advice to repair the ship (he's being so authoritarian with it, I thought he was the son in disguise for a moment). He then is confronted by the Father who tells him Anakin is about to make a choice and has gone to The Well of the Dark Side, a place where all dark energies are chanelled. The Father wants to stop Obi-Wan from interfering but Kenobi points out it's way too late for that and heads off to the Well. Said well is a big hole in the ground leading to a lava pool with a rock island. Anakin lands on it and doesn't burn due to the heat because shut up. The Son greets him and tells him they don't have to fight. He disarms the Jedi and offers to show him the Future. Didn't the Father just say that wasn't possible? Smoke surrounds Anakin and he sees images of Sidious renaming him, of himself fighting Obi-Wan, strangling Padmé and killing the younglings as well as Alderaan going kaboom and finally the mask of Vader accompanied by his iconic breathing.

Spoiler: Meh, doesn't hold a candle to this

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Everyone is wearing the Clone Wars outfit, and while I understand they weren't going to make models just for this scene, I find it funny that the Force is apprently confused or showing him an alternate timeline where the only difference with canon is that everybody forgot about laundry day. Anakin is apalled by what he we'll become and the Son says he can change this future by joining him so that they can destroy this "Emperor" and end war, corruption and suffering throughout the Galaxy. Skywalker asks if they would bring peace (what part of "end war" didn't you get?) and accepts. Ah, yes, I'll join the Dark Side to avoid joining the Dark Side. Me very clever Jedi, me makes best decisions, Yes-yes.

Ahsoka manages to get the radio working and calls for help. This has no impact on the plot. Kenobi gets to the Well and Anakin ambushes him, throws his speeder into lava and leaves saying he knows the Jedi will get in the way of peace. The Son tells Kenobi Skywalker is his now and leaves. Huh, kill him? No? You sure? There's absolutely nothing stopping you. Kenobi radios Ahsoka and tells her what's happening, he orders her not to confront Anakin but to sabotage the ship. She takes off some bits of the control panel, narrowly evades Anakin and leaves on his speeder. She gets to Obi-Wan, futilely trying to climb the Well. Anakin tells the Son he can't contact anyone. The Son says he will soon be able to pull passing ships to them. Anakin is worried the two of them can't take on the Jedi and the Father so the Son orders him to guard the ship while he goes to grab the sword.

The Father confronts Anakin, tells him that he can change his destiny and that for Balance to happen he must forgot what he saw. So, he wipes Anakin's memory. Uuuurgh, ****ing hell. The Son goes to his Sister's tomb tells her she was the only one he ever loved and takes the sword. Anakin wakes up at the Father's monastery where the fairy Godfather explains that the Son broke the Law of Time (the what now? Isn't seeing the Future one of the most common Force-powers? I swear.) and that since he's erased his memoris, they will never know. Kenobi and Tano gets there and they resolve to stop the Son. The Father tells Anakin he knows what he must do. And the Son arrives.

The Father makes one last attempt to convince him to be reasonnable, which doesn't work. Then he says he loves him and lets the others attack (you're a terrible parent and all of this is your fault). Anakin strikes the Son with his lightsaber because he's an idiot. The Son wipes the floor with the Jedi (so much for the Chosen One) but the Father takes advantage of the distraction to steal the sword and commit seppuku. T he Son is actually rather distraught over this. The Father syas they are tied to gether and that his death takes away the Son's power (WHAT!? THAT NEGATES THE STAKES OF THE ENTIRE ARC! WHAT!?). The Son begs his Father not to die and the Father hugs him tight saying he always knew there was good in him. Then he makes eye-contact with Skywalker who proceeds to skewer them bith on his lightsaber because that works now, apparently. Have I told you that the Father is a piece of **** of a father? Because if that wasn't clear, the Father is a piece of **** of a Father. The Son calls him out on betraying him (didn't you try to kill him like half a dozen time in two days?) and keels over. The Father tells Anakin he dies with a broken heart but knowing the Role Skywalker will play: he's the Chosen One who has brought balance to this world and that if he stays on this path he will do it again for the Galaxy provided he bewares his heart. Well I guess, there's no Imbalance if there's nothing to be imbalanced.

The Father's body disappears because of course he does, and the entire planet starts collapsing because of course it does. The Jedi wake up in their ship with Rex calling them. He says they were off the scope for a moment and asks what happened. Anakins says he wouldn't believe them if they told him.

Spoiler: My thought

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This is bad. This is probabaly the worst of the three. The Father is coded as this wise figure but every single one of his actions is stupid and the whole mess is ultimately his fault. The solution to deal with the Son borders on Deus ex Machina: turns out the very thing he's been trying to achieve would depower him. Wow, oh clever. I mean, you could spin that and his confused feeling for his relatives to show that the dark Side is ultimately unfullfilling and self-destructive but the episodes just plain don't. Speaking of Dark Side. Anakin's little turn here is meaningless fanservice. It's worse than useless since it onmy really manages to undermine his actual turn (that frankly really didn't need the extra help scuttling itself) since he can apparently be turned with the bearest of effort. And they just wipe his memory of the entire thing. Ya know, just to underline how utterly pointless that was. There's nothing built on the criticism Dark-Ahsoka threw at him last time, which would have been a neat character moment.

So apparently what he did here is the way he sould have brought balance to the Force? He did next to nothing! He refused to help and the Family basically killed each-other. He did kill the son but the father already had done the heavy lifting! The Father says he would bring Balance to the Force if he bewares his heart? So love is actually evil I guess and he did fail to bring balance? What was he supposed to do then? Because if a dead Family counts as Balance I get the impression he was supposed to put every Force-sensitive being to the sword, then. Did Kreia write the Prophecy? And at the end they wake up and barely a second passed, so I guess they were in an alternate dimension or something? Why was the planet organic and why did that never matterred to the story? Who knows? I certainly don't and I doubt any of the writers do. Bloody hell. At least the arc's over.

Next up: The Citadel, hopefully this one will be good.

[Taevyr]

I considered Citadel to be one of the better arcs, definitely a good palate cleanser after Mortis. Mortis is.... somewhat decent if you interpret it as a "vision quest"-like thing, but even then it has some clear holes in the plot and doesn't quite go anywhere.

[McNum]

The Mortis arc was done too soon, I think. Not that "The main cast zones out and has a vision quest" can't slot into almost any time in the story, it's just that the show wasn't ready for it yet. Clone Wars, despite getting better still hadn't exactly found the right balance yet, it just wasn't ready to go that metaphysical. Later seasons totally could have pulled Mortis off, though. Rebels could, too. Honestly, Rebels got weirder, but managed to keep up.

[Mechalich]

The Mortis arc was done too soon, I think. Not that "The main cast zones out and has a vision quest" can't slot into almost any time in the story, it's just that the show wasn't ready for it yet. Clone Wars, despite getting better still hadn't exactly found the right balance yet, it just wasn't ready to go that metaphysical. Later seasons totally could have pulled Mortis off, though. Rebels could, too. Honestly, Rebels got weirder, but managed to keep up.

That's definitely part of it. TCW handles similar elements better later on too.

I think the real problem with Mortis is that it's a vision quest without any real quest attached. I mean, it can be interpreted that the Celestials are testing Anakin and that he ostensibly fails, but what are they testing him for? What was he supposed to do? It's extremely muddled.

[Keltest]

That's definitely part of it. TCW handles similar elements better later on too.

I think the real problem with Mortis is that it's a vision quest without any real quest attached. I mean, it can be interpreted that the Celestials are testing Anakin and that he ostensibly fails, but what are they testing him for? What was he supposed to do? It's extremely muddled.

To say nothing of the fact that they broke the test themselves first when they started, you know, killing each other.