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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    That makes some sense but it doesn't mesh with Vader sensing Obi-Wan on the death Star for example. Especially since Anakin knew Obi-Wan was coming.
    What's the problem there? Attempts at stealth can fail.

    I very much doubt that. While he is a match for them in lightsaber combat (and even then he was running from them in the opener) he is more of a finess fighter while Anakin is a raw strength one which would give him a disadvantage in a fistfight. Especially since as they are shackled together, he can't get out of reach or isolate one of them.
    Fry them with lightning, which without sabres they can't block.

    He was not running from them, he was running from the fleet that came after them.

    They could have had Dooku talk about things, but it's not a bad thing that they didn't, just a choice.

    I dunno, here we had Dooku operate completely calmly while alone with a fleet looking for him, crashlanded alone on the planet.

    He casually brushes off Obi and Anakin, is clever enough not to try to fight impossible odds given the trip to Florrum and escape later, and then easily escapes once Anakin and Obi are out of the way.

    Now that you've refreshed my memory, though, a lot of stupid stuff happens here. It starts fairly promisingly, but then we get to weird stuff like taking hostage the people that are trying to pay you.

    Hondo is sharp enough not to ransom Dooku to the Seps, but... then decides to randomly piss off the Republic for no reason?

    Another puzzle... Why do Anakin and Obi try to escape? Why not stay in captivity to make sure Dooku is safely sold to the Republic (They don't know about Hondo's random hostage taking habits, right?). There's no advantage to breaking out.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 1, Episode 13: Jedi Crash
    Spoiler: Recap
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    We open with a space battle between Republic and Separatists, the Republicans are lead by Aayla Secura and the Separatists by a tactical droid rather than Grievous. Deprived of the guidance of their best general, the droids are, of course, winning (not bad for these droids' first appearance). Aayla's ship is falling into the atmosphere as Anakin, Ahsoka and the Five-oh-First come to the rescue. The tactical droid sends in jetpack-equipped superbattledroids. They fly now. Anakin, Ahsoka and Rex are aboard a gunship but Anakin decides to just randomly jump of a flying droid. How bad is his adrelanine addiction that being in battle doesn't give him his fix anymore? The cockpit is hsot and Rex drags the pilot inside the ship. Of course that means they crash inside Aayla's cruiser. Aayla and her clone buddy, commander Bly, have deemed the ship a lost cause and are fighting their way through. The tactical droid decides to just blast the cruiser to bits (why not do that in the first place?) one B1 objects that there are hundreds of droid aboard but the boss doesn't care. Huh? The battle droids have such low self-preservation instincts I am surprised this one cares for his colleagues.

    The Jedi and clone all meet and head up to a smaller ship Anakin had sent to the cruiser hangar to escape with. Given the size of the ship I am tempted to say that once again Anakin's objective was "save the Jedi, screw the clones) but frankly getting enough people to fill that hsip out would be optimistic. The intensified fires create a fireball that the jedi can't outrun so Anakin stays behind a blast door and use the Force to push on another blast door in order to cushion the explosion. It doesn't quite work as the second blast door blows up in his face but he managed to save the others. Ahsoka cut through the first door to get him aborad the ship. As he is badly wounded they get him to a droid doctor. Hopefully he doesn't diagnostic a loss of will to live. The ship tries to dock with the Anakin's destroyer, the Resolute but the navigational computer was damaged and is going haywire. In fact it's just activated the hyperdrive. Yumaren is afraid they take the Resolute with them (is that even possible? With how hyperdrive jumps have been portrayed lately I woudl have guess they'd tore the ship in twain.) They undock in the nick of time and jump to parts unknown.

    As they fly through hyperspace they discover that they are headed towards the inside of a star. Clearly this is a problem. The solution is to cut all power to reboot the computer. That includes Anakin's life support which Ahsoka objects to but Aayla overrules her on the ground that the inside of a star isn't super healthy either. You know, seeing Ahsoka and Aayla's dress code make me sad Kit Fisto didn't lose his shirt in his episode like he did back in Clone Wars so that the ladies could have some eye-candy too. Cutting all the power however also means cutting the artificial gravity (ever noticed how the artifical gravity systems never seem to fail no matter how much punishment a given ship takes? They're like the anti-comm systems) so everybody starts floating which forces Secura to use the Force to turn the pwoer back on. They emerge from hyperspace and juuuuust manange a literal sunbathing session. They immediately crash-land on a planet. I am starting to think that the Republic piloting schools spends more time teaching how to manage a crash than how to avoid one. I wonder if we'll ever get an arc where no single ship gets destroyed.

    Survivors of the crash include: Anakin (still unconsciuos), Aayla Secura, Ahsoka Tano, Rex, Bly and three random clones. The doctor is destroyed so they'll need someone else to help Anakin. Lucky htem they landed on a planet with a breatheable atmosphere, tolerable air pressure and 1g gravity. What are the odds. A clone found a wooden tablet showing a humanoid figure fighting a beast with a spear under a big tree. They conclude that there is intelligent life relatively nearby. Ahsoka proposes to stay with Anakin and Rex while the others go look but Secura insists only Rex stays because they'll be more efficient that way. I suppose she counts on Jedi sensitivity to find life? Ahsoka doesn't want to leave Anakin behind but Aayla tells her her duty as a Jedi is to the group. She reluctantly agrees and leave with them as Rex tries to cheer her up. Ahsoka points to the tablet and say the locals must live near giant trees. Secura congratulates her on adeduction skill. Can't quite tell if she's being sarcastic.

    As they progress Ahsoka asks Aayla about a contradiction she's noticed in the Jedi Code: They are to be compassionate but also must not form any attachment. Aayla explains that she used to be in Ahsoka's shoe but she eventually realized she had to let her master go. Doesn't really answers the question, though. They are interrupted by some vulture-looking quadrupal-dinosaur. It manages to kill all three redshirts (wow look at that, a feral beast is more effective than Tuk and his gang) beofre being shot to death. The party reaches the giant tree but there are no sign of intelligent life nearby. The reason quickly becomes obvious as giant acorn-looking pods fall on them. Aayla notices tracks and concludes someone is intelligent enough to use the pods and so they elect to follow said tracks. I mean that might just be animals making provision for winter but it's not like they have any better idea, soooo...

    Meanwhile anakin comes to as he senses danger and warns Rex soon enough that he can scare away a vulturausorus with his blaster. Anakin immediately collapse again, though. Aayla, Ahsoka and Bly have reached a settlement made out of the pods and populated by diminutive monkey-like alien. fortuneately they speak Basic, which makes sense since they ar enot natives to this planet after all but colonists who came there to hide from the Clone War. The leader denies the Jedi the title of "peacekeeper" because they carry and use weapons. He wants nothing to do with them and tells them to begone. However when Ahsoka is reduced to beggin gfor some medical supplies for their wounded he relents and sends their only healer, his own son Wag'tun, to tend to Anakin. He insists that a Jedi stays at the village as insurance that their healer is returned safe and sound. Yeah, hostage don't work as well when you preface it with "I do not believe in the use of violence in any situation" but whatever it's a suprefluous precaution anyway. Ahsoka volunteers to stay with Bly but the elder refuses that the clone stays in his village (ostensibly because clones don't even pretend not ot be soldiers). Aayla says ahsoka should come back with Bly and she agrees.

    Back at the crash, the vulturausori have come back in greater numbers and Anakin insists he can fight. Rex and him kill one beast before Ahsoka, Bly and Wag'tun arrive, they drive a second one away and Wag'tun non-lethally subdues the last one with help from Ahsoka and Rex (though he has to plead for its life beforehand). Also Wag'tu runs by rolling like a droideka and that is just adorable.
    While this is happening, Secura anjoys osme liquid food with the village elder and they have a debate on the necessity of violence. Aayla thinks that freedom and justice desrve to be fought for which the elder agrees to but he doesn't accept that they deserve killing for. Aayla conters by asking wether he would take one life to save a thousand and that the Jedi did not start the war. That's highly debatable Aayla, you know very well the Jedi attacked Geonosis, and by extensiont he Separatists, first. That wasn't unprovocked of course since they were rescuing their comrandes but Obi-Wan was illegally trespassing and spying. It would help to know if the war is situated more in Separatist or Republican space anyway. Of course the leder doesn't know the details so his argument is that it doesn't matter who started the conflict and who wants to end it, it takes two to tango.

    Anakin and co arrives safely at the village and the children gather around the wounded spooking him as he wakes up again. Awg'tun ^repares some healing oils from the pod and tends to his patient. Aayla and Ahsoka talk while watching the sunset. Ahsoka says Aayla was right, if she hadn't come they wouldn't ahve found the village. Huh? Would no-one else have thought of looking for the trees on the tablet, really? Aayla tells her that even though their situation is better than before they are still stuck on this remote planet (doe the colonosist not ahve the ship they came in anymore? Does it not have communication equipment), but Ahsoka is sure Yularen is looking for them. Well, it shouldn't take long for hil to find them then, after all they could only be ANYWHERE IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY! (I kid, we've seen Yularen order a clone to plot all possible courses based on their jump but still Space (and planets) are so big they really shouldn't count on him findin them). I wonder where Bly and Rex are spending the night if they're not allowed in the village. Maybe the thought to take Anakin's makeshift tent with them.



    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    There's not much to say on that one. It shows that Ahsoka is really attached to Anakin and can let that cloud her judgement (even if that's a bit clumsy). The bit about non-violence feels like set-up for the next episode where Separatists inevitably show up to conquer the colonists and exploit them for **** and giggles.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-07-05 at 09:03 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Ahsoka says Aayla was right, if she hadn't come they wouldn't ahve found the village. Huh? Would no-one else have thought of looking for the trees on the tablet, really?
    Huh. It just occurred to me that Ahsoka is probably the only one from a world where trees are anywhere near common; she might well have been the only one who'd recognize the markings on the tablet as a tree so quickly.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Huh. It just occurred to me that Ahsoka is probably the only one from a world where trees are anywhere near common; she might well have been the only one who'd recognize the markings on the tablet as a tree so quickly.
    I am now imagining Anakin's and Luke's reaction to seeing a tree for the first time and drawing their own conclusions.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Why Dooku joined the Sith is one of the rare things in Star Wars that bothers me enough to bother me but not quite enough for me to look it up.

    My head canon is that Palpatine knew Dooku when they were Senator and Jedi and they were good friends - Palpatine slowly turned him against the Jedi and the Republic, then revealed pieces of alternate philosophy ... and while Dooku was corrupted enough to become Tyranus and knew more about Sidious he still kindof considered them to be friends and didn't think he would be disposed of when the plan was completed.

    After all the rule of two could be described as a method of hiding from the Jedi (rather then the alternative consolidating power) and with the Jedi gone it would not be needed.
    I think it's supposed to be mostly frustration with the Jedi's inability to solve major problems like the slave trade growing into resentment. I really feel Dooku was utterly wasted as a concept (and an actor) in the Prequels and I hoped that the show woudl dive more into his character but I guess not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    What's the problem there? Attempts at stealth can fail.
    Look if Vader, who hasn't seen Obi-Wan in twenty years, can recognize him from half a space station away when he's trying to be stealthy without knowing he was anywhere near this part of space then Anakin, who has spent more than a decade in his company aand knows he is coming, should be able to recognize him from a doorframe away even when he' strying to be stealthy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Fry them with lightning, which without sabres they can't block.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    He was not running from them, he was running from the fleet that came after them.
    Honestlly it seemed less like a fleet and more like a single destroyer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    They could have had Dooku talk about things, but it's not a bad thing that they didn't, just a choice.
    I like my antagonist with a personnality, myslef, especially when they're meant a s afoil to one of the hero and to have a personnal connection with them (Yoda's pupil, Qui Gon's teacher, this is important.)

    I dunno, here we had Dooku operate completely calmly while alone with a fleet looking for him, crashlanded alone on the planet.

    He casually brushes off Obi and Anakin, is clever enough not to try to fight impossible odds given the trip to Florrum and escape later, and then easily escapes once Anakin and Obi are out of the way.
    There's no fleet coming after him, just two Jedi. And the escape he initiated fails. His actual escape is due to Jar Jar knocking out the power grid and Obi-Wan and Anakin distracting the pirates. He didn't escape becaue he was competent he escaped because his jailers were idiots who attacked their customers. He even lost his lightsaber!

    Now that you've refreshed my memory, though, a lot of stupid stuff happens here. It starts fairly promisingly, but then we get to weird stuff like taking hostage the people that are trying to pay you.

    Hondo is sharp enough not to ransom Dooku to the Seps, but... then decides to randomly piss off the Republic for no reason?

    Another puzzle... Why do Anakin and Obi try to escape? Why not stay in captivity to make sure Dooku is safely sold to the Republic (They don't know about Hondo's random hostage taking habits, right?). There's no advantage to breaking out.
    They try to escape because Hondo has taken them prisoners and intends to ransom them to the Republic (which would look bad) or the Separatist (which would be worse) and because he has proven untrustworthy, he might have been outbid by the Seaparatists or the Hutts or whoever. Besides, if they can escape and join the Republic envoy then they can deliver Dooku to the Republic and keep the taxpayers' money where it belongs rather than abetting a criminal.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I am now imagining Anakin's and Luke's reaction to seeing a tree for the first time and drawing their own conclusions.
    Maybe that's why the second Death Star's shield generator was built on a forest moon!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I really feel Dooku was utterly wasted as a concept (and an actor) in the Prequels and I hoped that the show woudl dive more into his character but I guess not.
    The series may not rise to the level of "dive", but there's a few episodes later on with a better focus on Dooku. Let the series figure out what exactly it's doing with its protagonists first
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I am now imagining Anakin's and Luke's reaction to seeing a tree for the first time and drawing their own conclusions.
    Anakin: Wait, you mean, these things stop sand from being formed? *starry eyes* I love them...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    The series may not rise to the level of "dive", but there's a few episodes later on with a better focus on Dooku. Let the series figure out what exactly it's doing with its protagonists first
    ... Fair.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Fry them with lightning, which without sabres they can't block.
    Spoiler: The movies disagree
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    ETA: Also, Fyr, does your Disney + app or whatever your using to watch it not give episode titles? Mine does.
    Spoiler: Like so
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    I may be watching these around the same time you are to refresh my memories on them. And it's fun.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spoiler: The movies disagree
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    Anakin and Obi-Wan can't do that, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    ETA: Also, Fyr, does your Disney + app or whatever your using to watch it not give episode titles? Mine does.
    Spoiler: Like so
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    I may be watching these around the same time you are to refresh my memories on them. And it's fun.
    Nope. Just numbers. Then again, if the makers wanted me to know the episode titles they should have put them in the credits.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 1, Episode 14: Defenders of Peace

    Spoiler: Recap
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    It's morning on the village, Bly (who apparently was allowed to spend the night there) is helping some villagers out but Rex soon spots an approaching Separatist transport ship. The village elder, whose name is Tai'waka orders the Republicans to begone before they are dragged into the conflict. Good thing Anakin's pretty much healed. The Jedi tell him that the Separatists won't respect his neutrality but he says they haven't done anything to provoke them and they don't intend to. Anakin, of all people, is the voice of reason and says they won't drag bystanders into a war that isn't there. Tai'waka goes to greet the newcomers. Their leader is a fatter-than-usual neimoidian named "General Lukgrub" and an anaqualish technician. Lukgrub strolls in like he owns the place because he has decided he does and he's got the guns so he makes the rules. The droids start "ransakcing" the place which shocks Wag'tu (who was helping the Republicans out). The droid report no trace of republic personnel or materiel and the Separatists leave. Wag'tu is furious at his father for submitting to a petty tyrant like that but Tai'waka is content with the fact that no-one got hurt. Wag'tu asks another lurmin (that's their species' name apparently) to keep an eye on the Jedi and help them if needed.

    As the Republicans are contemplating their next move (looks like the only ships around are the Separatists'). Rex is puzzled by the lurmin's commitment to non-violence, which makes sense since he was red and raised with war as his one and only purpose in life. He concludes they must have no pride. Ahsoka thinks they don't have courage. Secura points out that sticking to one's beliefs in tough situations requieres a lot of courage and that Tano, as a Jedi, should know that. They are interrupted by a probe droid (huh, did the Empire nick that design off the Separatists? Doesn't seem to be their modus operandi). They hunt it down and Aayla manages to cut its route before cutting it. It was headed for the giant trees so the republicans climb them up to try to see where it was going. In hindsight they could have done that last time to spot a settlement.

    The Separatists have erected a small roofless fortress where they parked their troop carrier and a shuttle. Guess they went to the Starcraft school of architecture. the carrier unloads three tanks one of which is carried a weird yellow gun. Anakin sends Rex and Bly to investigate closer while they watches from a distance; seems pointless with how far their binoculars can see. The general makes a speech about how his new weapon that destroys organic life but not machines will bring victory to the Separatists. The droids execute their cheering subroutine. The general orders two "volunteers" (the only two who didn't step back when he asked. So the B1 do have a survival instinct) to go stand in the kill zone for their first test. Which is almost on top of the two very-much organic clones. It's weird that a weapon designer became a general but maybe he's just stealing the aqualish's credit, I don't know. The weapon fires and unleashes some kind of fast expending fire. Rex escapes with his grappling gun but Aayla has to sweep in to rescue Bly with a vine. The droids are fine. Dooku, who was watching through an hologram congratulates the general and orders him to test on people next. That seems somewhat superfluous but okay. The general explains that he had selected the planet with that in mind and that he knows a village that will make a perfect testing ground. he immediately leaves with the tanks and three squad (150-odd droids). The Republicans realize he is head for the village and put two and two together. They decide to infiltrate the ennemy base and steal the shuttle to warn the villagers. Ahsoka says that Tai'waka has made it clear he doesn't want their help but Anakin answers that there's a difference between bringin innocents to a fight and letting them be slaughtered. (Welll duh!) Wag'tu's friend pulls a movie!Gandalf and tell a butterfly to tell Wag'tu that the Sepratists are coming back.

    Anakin distracts some B by moving a rock with the Force (they are dumb enough to try to follow a rock moving under his own power rather than raising the alarm) while the Ahsoka and Secura climb the wall and take out some droids inside (we get to see Ahsoka's shadow and her lightsaber projects one too. That doesn't feel right.) They let the boys and they quickly take out what's left of the "garrison" before leaving with the shuttle and a couple shield generators). Cut to next morning, Wag'tu is arguing with his father who thinks the Separatists didn't harm them last time so they won't next time. David hume didn't die for this. Anyway, the Republican gets there and tell them about the new weapon. Tai'waka says his people who kill to save their lives. Anakin, still the most reasonnable here (starting to think he hit his head harder than it seemed) says they should run then. Tai'waka refuses to abandon their homes. Err, if you came here because of the war you wan't have been here for more than six months, dude this isn't your ancestral lands, just scatter, you knuckle-head. The conversation goes nowhere until Anakin says that they will respect the lurmins' beliefs but they too must respect theirs and so they will fight for the villagers wether they agree or not. Tai'waka storms off while Wag'tu tells Ahsoka he and some of the young agree with the Jedi but their society is very tradictionnal and they can't go against their code like that.

    The General and his group arrive near the village. He thinks the usccess of his weapon will net him a promotion (to what field-marshal?), even his droid commander seems confused at the idea. They spot the Jedi monting an impromptu barricade faster than Parisians when the price of bread goes up by 0.005%. Welp time for test two. As the misslie bears down on the village the clones raise the shields which manage to stop the blast. Pissed, the General sends one of hs three squads to attack (I guess he's keeping the other two for a paintball match later or something). Our five heroes stand in front of the shields and start fighting. I feel like the clones really should only stick the end of their guns out of the shield for cover but that wouldn't matter sinc ethe droids are terrible anyway. When the squad is inevitably destroyed. The general throws all he has at them (while still satying in the back with the tanks). The Republicans are forced to retreat inside the shield as the droids enter the village. Anakain goes to destroy the special weapon before it can fire again. The droids shoot down the shield generators and are ordered to leave no survivor (I guess they dpn't need to be alive for the test). Wag'tu has had enough and takes a band of like-minded lurmin to battle. They use a rope to trip the droids while ahsoka beheads them. Anakin destroys the tanks and take the general prisoner by levitating him as he tried to run away. The general lament his lost promotion as the last droids are destroyed.

    Wag'tu thanks the Republicans for their help and Tai'waka reluctantly does so as well although, he ponders what the cost of this battle will be for his people as the dagger-shaped destroyers of the Republic appear in the sky.


    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    The theme of this episode is abviously when (if ever) violence becomes justified. Since I don't want to get this thread locked, I'll just say that the episode tries to give a fair assessment of both sides of the argument while still leaning on the "violence is sometimes necessary" side especially since the opening quote/saying-thingie is "when surrounded by war one must choose a camp". Though this attempt at fairness kind of fall flat in its face since Tai'waka refuses to consider any solution other than resolving to die. They really could have just run away for example.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-07-05 at 09:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Anakin, still the most reasonnable here ...
    Ignoring everything else about the show - I think its greatest achievement is that making Anakin Skywalker a fairly reasonable fairly likeable guy (even if it feels a bit out of sync with the movies).

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Anakin and Obi-Wan can't do that, though.
    [citation needed]

    For reals, though, I am forced to assume that Dooku couldn't lightning in his cuffs, since if he could, he could have simply done it several times when they were captured/recaptured during the escapes.
    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Ignoring everything else about the show - I think its greatest achievement is that making Anakin Skywalker a fairly reasonable fairly likeable guy (even if it feels a bit out of sync with the movies).
    Conversely, the show's worst failure is to show anything that would justify Kenobi's lines "you were my brother!" and "he was a good friend" regarding Anakin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Conversely, the show's worst failure is to show anything that would justify Kenobi's lines "you were my brother!" and "he was a good friend" regarding Anakin.
    I don't about 'brother' but Anakin does seem to a good friend to the people who he is friends with (in the show), I don't remember any particular poor friendship actions from him conversely if one is friends with him he seems to stand by them (even against staunch opposition).

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I don't about 'brother' but Anakin does seem to a good friend to the people who he is friends with (in the show), I don't remember any particular poor friendship actions from him conversely if one is friends with him he seems to stand by them (even against staunch opposition).
    He seems to be a good friend in the sense that he and Kenobi trade jobs at each other, and not much else. They tolerate each other. They don't blow up at each other. That's about it. It's like how people can be close friends, so they mock or insult the other playfully; there's a whole lot more to the friendship than that, and if that's all we see, then it doesn't look all that great.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    I thought the show did a good job of making their jabs seem affectionate.

    Spoiler: Season 4
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    And when Obi-Wan is believed dead, having gone undercover, Anakin is very upset - and also when the truth is revealed, upset at how he wasn't trusted with it.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    He seems to be a good friend in the sense that he and Kenobi trade jobs at each other, and not much else. They tolerate each other. They don't blow up at each other. That's about it. It's like how people can be close friends, so they mock or insult the other playfully; there's a whole lot more to the friendship than that, and if that's all we see, then it doesn't look all that great.
    Been a while since I watched A New Hope or The Clone Wars I thought they came across as if they got along.

    But lets assume your memory is better then mine - in that case did Obi-Wan say 'he was a good friend' or did he say 'we were good friends' - because of the former then it would only mean that Anakin was a good friend to people who he was friends with and then what Obi-Wan would have said would be technically true (and you wouldn't need to get into certain point of view territory), unless you are saying he was not a good friend to anyone?
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    If I'm tracking the episodes right, that means my almost-favorite episode of the first season is next.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I thought the show did a good job of making their jabs seem affectionate.

    Spoiler: Season 4
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    And when Obi-Wan is believed dead, having gone undercover, Anakin is very upset - and also when the truth is revealed, upset at how he wasn't trusted with it.
    Agreed. Even outside that blatant example, their voice actors were (eventually) really good with the subtle tone of playful sarcasm.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I thought the show did a good job of making their jabs seem affectionate.

    Spoiler: Season 4
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    And when Obi-Wan is believed dead, having gone undercover, Anakin is very upset - and also when the truth is revealed, upset at how he wasn't trusted with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    If I'm tracking the episodes right, that means my almost-favorite episode of the first season is next.

    Agreed. Even outside that blatant, their voice actors were (eventually) really good with the subtle tone of playful sarcasm.
    Eh, when almost all we see is playful sarcasm, I get the impression it's more familiar-coworkers or longtime-acquaintances.
    Spoiler: Season 4
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    And given that before the Clone Wars, Anakin was already forming a massive superiority complex, I saw his reaction to not being trusted with it as an extension of that. And that his initial reaction at Kenobi's death would have been largely similar to, say, Yoda's - the reaction as given more because the audience connection with the "dead" Jedi was strong, not because Anakin's in particular was.
    Really, his whole character was handled remarkably poorly from the very beginning, so it's already a steep uphill climb, and I understand my objections there may not be shared by others.
    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Been a while since I watched A New Hope or The Clone Wars I thought they came across as if they got along.

    But lets assume your memory is better then mine - in that case did Obi-Wan say 'he was a good friend' or did he say 'we were good friends' - because of the former then it would only mean that Anakin was a good friend to people who he was friends with and then what Obi-Wan would have said would be technically true (and you wouldn't need to get into certain point of view territory), unless you are saying he was not a good friend to anyone?
    “He was the best starpilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior... And he was a good friend.”

    And I hate the "certain point of view" stuff thrown out for practically everything he said. Right off the bat, it was a retcon, which I wasn't too thrilled with, and then poor decisions to make every word he ever uttered to Luke a pack of lies sold under the veil of "a certain point of view"... no. Just no. Dude was reminiscing there, he was fondly remembering the past, he was for the briefest of moments reunited with the ghost of his friend. The fact that Lucas couldn't get over his own ego and went hog wild on rampant inconsistencies in the prequels does not let the "certain point of view" flag fly in my sails.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    If I'm tracking the episodes right, that means my almost-favorite episode of the first season is next.
    Have I done your actual favorite yet or is it coming up?
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    And I hate the "certain point of view" stuff ...
    I hear you, Star Wars: A New Hope is an incredible movie, at times I wonder if every other movie Star Wars movie is merely trying to tear it down.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I hear you, Star Wars: A New Hope is an incredible movie, at times I wonder if every other movie Star Wars movie is merely trying to tear it down.
    There's very few movies I consider perfect or near-perfect. Original Star Wars is one of them. Lightning in a bottle, I tells ya.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Really, his whole character was handled remarkably poorly from the very beginning, so it's already a steep uphill climb, and I understand my objections there may not be shared by others.
    Spoiler: Later in the series stuff
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    What I think the series does surprisingly well is how it (eventually) gets to what separates Obi-Wan and Anakin....Obi-Wan nearly always does what the High Council requests, rather than what Anakin (and Ahsoka) think are the right thing to do. Anakin's strong reaction to Obi-Wan keeping him in the dark, personally, for the good of the Council, kicks things off. So when Obi-Wan does this again, with the whole "Knight appointed to the High Council" thing....

    Meanwhile, Obi-Wan actually told Qui-Gon, all the way back in Phantom Menace, his belief that Qui-Gon would be on the High Council if he didn't defy them so much. Obi-Wan could well have been confusing his feelings about Qui-Gon for his feelings about Anakin.


    Not that this is strictly what the series is trying to accomplish, I don't think; but I like to note how much better the series is at accomplishing the things the surrounding movies kind of just wanted you to accept at face value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Have I done your actual favorite yet or is it coming up?
    You're about five episodes away from my actual favorite from the first season.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Not that this is strictly what the series is trying to accomplish, I don't think; but I like to note how much better the series is at accomplishing the things the surrounding movies kind of just wanted you to accept at face value.
    Not a terribly high bar, though, to be fair. I dunno, I just see another animated show made around the same time, aimed specifically at younger audiences, dealing with morality and war, and just wish that The Clone Wars was made as well as Avatar: The Last Airbender.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Not a terribly high bar, though, to be fair. I dunno, I just see another animated show made around the same time, aimed specifically at younger audiences, dealing with morality and war, and just wish that The Clone Wars was made as well as Avatar: The Last Airbender.
    Which is somewhere on my list of shows to watch.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Which is somewhere on my list of shows to watch.
    Oh man, cannot recommend highly enough.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Which is somewhere on my list of shows to watch.
    There is a live action movie also ... stay far far away from it is my recommendation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Oh man, cannot recommend highly enough.
    I don't know - Book 1 was alright, Book 2 was good (maybe even very good) and Book 3 kindof seemed a bit hit and miss if I remember correctly (some good bits to be fair but a lot of of meh).

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I don't know - Book 1 was alright, Book 2 was good (maybe even very good) and Book 3 kindof seemed a bit hit and miss if I remember correctly (some good bits to be fair but a lot of of meh).
    Spoiler
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    Book 1 had Uncle Iroh. Book 2 had Uncle Iroh. Book 3 had Uncle Iroh.

    I dunno, I'd classify all three as fantastic.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Oh man, cannot recommend highly enough.
    Yeah, I know...
    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    There is a live action movie also ... stay far far away from it is my recommendation.
    Yeah, I know...
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 1, Episode 15: Trespass a.k.a. Jasdoif's second favourite of the season.

    Spoiler: Recap
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    A remote Republic base on the frozen world of Orto Plutonia has ceased communication and Obi-Wan, Anakin and Rex have been sent to investigate with an array (three dropships worth) of clones. Also present are representative from the planet's moon (called Pantora), Supreme Chairman Cho and Senator Chuchi (plus two bodyguards). C3-PO and R2 are also there, why not? Turns out the planet is uninhabited meaning the Pantorian as the only intelligent species of the system claim it as their own. Kenobi thinks this is for the Senate to decide but Senator Chichu meekly points out that the Senate already granted the system to the Pantorians. Makes sense to me. If we ever meet extra-stellar lifeforms I'd hope they'll recognize that the solar system is ours to exploit ruin **** up use. Chairman Cho seems to be under the impression that everybody around here answers to his authority. OBi-Wan and Anakin are freezing their butts off and joking about how they're in the tropics and how this isn't Tattoine at all. So is this post-character development or are just in a good mood today? Rex is wearing some proto snow-trooper armor which is nice but makes it look like he's got no chin which makes it hard to take him seriously in this.

    The fun soon stops when the crew discovers a row of clone helmets on spears on the entrance and a lot more dead clones inside. None of which are missing their helmets which goes completely unadress but makes me wonders if their ennemis own an ewok recipe book. Chairman Cho is adamant the Separatists are responsible and wipes Senator Chuchi argument that there are no droid remains anywhere nor any blaster marks on the casualties by stating that he's lead their people since before she was a child. She adresses him as "your majesty" and she is a senator despite looking and acting like a teenager which is reminding me of Naboo's nonsensical political traditions of electing a teenage queen. Obi-Wan notices that the base computer were left untouched which is unlike the Separatists. Chichu hopes that if the Separatists aren't involved then maybe a peaceful solution can be reached. Cho argues that even if the Separatists aren't behind this then whoever is is clearly a brutal agressor who must be put down and that he is ready to die for his people so it is time chichu asks herself if she is brave enough to do the same. Rex reports that the scouts have spotted a Separatist base not far from there. Must have made for some awkward "meet the neighbours." Anakin and Obi-Wan takes a little group and go investigate while the rest stays behind to protect the Pantorians.

    The Separatist base is in similar condition with droid heads stuck to spears and their headless bodies frozen in place. And now I'm imagining the attackers propping them up and having fun just like with huge legos. Anakin spots a big fottprint and Obi-Wan orders a cast to be made out of it. Nothing comes of this but I guess it was left by one of the mounts we'll see soon. Obi-Wan finds a recording (that only plays after Skywalker whacks the projector) of the droid commander calling for reinforcement before being tackled by a polar bear-like alien. Guess no Separatists ever got the message. They keep on exploring and stumble on a village. (Did they follow tracks? I don't think so.) turns-out the planet is inhabited by a pre-smelting civilisation of furry, four-eyed humanoids. I swear I've seen these guys before in Star Wars but I'm not sure where. The cantina? They can't talk Basic, though, Skywalker laments that they could use 3PO right now as what looks like a leader (you can tell by the hat, it's an universal law that the fancier the hat the more importance you think you have) approaches and raises a spear menacingly before sticking it in the snow and inviting them in their hut. Kenobi hopes that the aliens are smarter than the Jedi and will figure a way to communicate. Obi-Wan tries the talk-slowly-to-foreigner technique. It works as well as you'd expect. Fortunately, an alien hands Anakin a drawing of a battle droid before Kenobi tries shouting at them and Skywalker draws a (crude) human and alien holding hands to try to convey the meaning of "peace". Fortunetaly this is not how these aliens challenge each other to an honor duel so that works. The leader hugs Obi-Wan as they leave.

    The Jedi are surprised by a snostorm on the way back to the Republic base but make it without too much trouble. They inform everybody that the planet is inhabited which sends Chairman Cho into a furor. It's never adressed but his flurry of arguments as to why "savages" don't count as people makes me suspect he already knew about their presence. Senator Chichu didn't but he shouts her into submission. The Jedi explains that the natives are called Thals. (Ah! so that's why they disappeared from Doctro Who! Clever the onmy safe distance from a Dalek is inanother franchise altogether. Ahh, who am I kidding, I'm sure there's a Doctor who/tar Wars crossover somewhere.) Their leader's name is Tay Senn and they've agreed to a meeting. Turns out the droid attacked them first and they mistook the clones for allies of the Separatists (since they're all foreign-devils and all that). Now watching this I assumed that the Jedi where making stuff up to try to calm down the Chairman and gain time for a Senatorial commission to recognize the natives' right to the planet, but nope, this is all accurate. How the hell did they communicate that through drawings?

    Anyhoo, every named character, the two bodyguards and some clone goes to the meeting. Chairman Cho, who overruled Senator Chichu who had volunteered as their people's spokesperson wants the clones to open fire on the natives as soon as they show up but Kenobi points out that he's not in command and Skywalker that some thals have been following them for a while. More pop out of the snow and Tay Senn shows up.It starts well enough with Tay Senn welcoming everyone to his planet and expressing he intends to be a good neighbour but on the condition the aliens leave his planet to his people. How does this guy even have a concept of planet? Chairman Cho uses 3PO as a translator to hurl some abuse at the natives befoe declaring war before storming off. The only alien left is Senator Chichu who is dejected by the whole thing. The Jedi ask her if she can't appeal to the senate so that they'd get authority to intervene. She can't without Cho's authorization... or the Speaker of the Assembly's. So this is a constitutional monarchy, then?

    As they get up to base they meet Cho gearing up for war. Well trying to at any rate. tHere's a running gag of Cho ordering Rex around and Rex not contradicting but also not obeying until a Jedi Gives him the same order which Cho never seems to notice. This time though Rex asks Anakin what he's supposed to do. Anakin tells him to protect Cho if needed but not go any farther Probaly because as much a she doesn't want to start a war, losing a head of state would look bad on the after-mission debrief. the Chairman seems fixated on launching an immediate attack even though the snowstorm means their dropship are inoperable and there are only less than twenty speeders. Naturally someone with such a keen tactical mind falls into the most obvious trap this side of the Maw cluster and the thals starts slaughtering the clones and Cho's bodyguards. Cho even gets a spear to the back but when Rex picks him up he has no wound nor bleeding visible. Woops. Chichu managed to get in touch with the Pantorian Assembly and they've decided that Cho's actions were out of line, she's given full plenipotential authority to salvage the situation. Holy cow a romm full of politicians who managed to decide to do the right thing immediately and with little incentive to do so!? These are inhuman creatures! As the storm has died down, the Jedi and everybody else take the gunships and while en route Chichu confides to Kenobi that she hopes he would managed to make the peace. Kenobi answers that this war is between the thals and the Pantorians and so it has to be her who speaks for her onw people. I get what they're going for but isn't being an in-betweener in theses kind of conflicts the entire reason the Republic funded your huge-ass temple for a thousand years, Obi-Wan?

    Rex, five clones and the useless load have managed to flee to some natural ice bridge but it collapses under two speeders (how does antigravity even work?). Rex quickly pulls up an impromptu defense with the speeders and starts gunning down the approaching outriders. Turns out that while stone beats laser when stone has literally all the circumstance adva,tage (terrain, surprise, elevation, surrounding the ennemy, numbers, etc.) and cavalry charge against ennmies with automatic firearms on a flat terrain isn't exactly ideal. Tay Senn has a huge numerical advantage and it loo,s like the clones can't gun down all of his warriors before being turned into Kamino-special kebabs but they can gun down a lot of his warriors. And they do. The battle is interrupted by the timely arrival of the gunships which prompts Tay Senn to halt his charge but not to run away just yet.

    Chairman Cho is elated to see Senator Chichu and orders her, as his dying command, to avenge his fall and wipe out the natives. She cooly tell him he has been deposed and she intends to make peace. He recoils and shock and re-affirm his commitment to dying for his nation. Which he promptly does. Convienient. I am compelled to quote the movie Rrrrrr when they bury the guy who took himself hostage and then executed his hostage when his demands weren't met "He said he'd do it and so he did. He was a great man. -He was great dumbass is what you mean, yeah." Chichu takes Cho's big Hat of Leadership (see? I told you it was universal) and a thrown spear before ordering 3PO to come with. Tai Senn meets her halfway across the battlefield and she raises the spear up high saying it is a hard thing to die for one's people, but living for them is harder and she drives the spear into the ground before placing the Cho's hat on it. She says she chooses to live and asks Tai Senn what he chooses. Tay Senn raises his spear menacingly growls something... and drives it into the snow next to Chichu's ans 3PO exclaims that he choses to live.
    Spoiler: Hmmm
    Show

    The outriders all make their mounts kneel. Glad we solved racism forever guys!
    I kid but Obi-Wan quickly makes Chichu promises to do something both harder and more important than making a peace. Keeping a peace. And to such a peace that it will be held up as example throughout the galaxy. She clearly understands the difficulty of the task but promises anyway.
    Our last shot of the episode is of the two crossed spears in the snow with Cho's hat flapping in the wind.


    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    Allright! This was certainly better than the last few episodes. Anakin and Obi-Wan were united in their opposition to Cho but even then they really felt more like people who enjoy each other's company than they did when running after Dooku. On the same wavelength if you see what I mean. The main conflict is okay. I mean it had all the subtlety of an anvil launched out of a catapult, but this message (war bad) doesn't really require subtlety. And it nicely complements last episode's message of pure non-violence bad. However this being a kid show really shows here. The villain is motivated by pure prejudice and everybody else around him disagrees. I think they could have explained that the planet held some kind of resource that was important to Pontara's economy which would have neatly explained Cho's insistance that the planet remained his people's property as well as the Republic and Separatist interest for the planet (what where they even doing there, anyway?). Prejucide is irrational but it often is self-serving (if short-sighted) as well. I do wonder about the thals, though. They've just been thrown into a larger world they have no idea how to navigate while a major war rages on of all times. Their abysmal technological difference with galactic civilisation means that keeping their culture distinct will be one hell of an uphill battle while they are pretty much at the mercy of their direct neighbours. even with the Senate granting them rights, they have little hope of being left alone as both sides will most likley resume whatever they were doing int he first place, and when the Empire rolls around... Well let's just say that there are advantages to no-one knowing you exist.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    The original Clone Wars boasts a Talz Jedi. I want to say that there's another Talz in one of the movies as well, probably in ANH.

    With Clone Wars, I do find myself wishing there was a little more going on. Subtlety is not it's strong suit.

    It also occasionally rams headlong into major stakes problems.
    Spoiler: Future episode spoiler
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    There's one episode where Mace Windu and Anakin are trapped and waiting on R2-D2 to save them and that's pretty much it. They all die. There isn't even any conflict between Mace Windu and Anakin, they just sort of lie there and wait for the episode to end.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-06-11 at 04:49 PM.

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