Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

[Fyraltari]

Yes. Thats kind of one of the fundamental aspects of the Force. The whole point of that scene was to establish that the destruction of a planet was an act that resonated in the Force.

And this has to do with the the light/dark side dichotomy how?

A lightsaber blocks Force Lightning, the same as any other solid (more or less) object. Yoda actively contains and then repels the lightning back at its source, without any physical barrier.

Yoda also stops a falling stone column without touching it, yet I don't think the Light Side of the force is antithetical to stone.

[Peelee]

Yes. Thats kind of one of the fundamental aspects of the Force. The whole point of that scene was to establish that the destruction of a planet was an act that resonated in the Force.

[The Force is] an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together.

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Those two go together pretty seamlessly. Killing on a massive scale made ripples in the Force. However, in no way is this indicated to be a "Dark Side action" or a "Light Side action" any morr than you can tell if the ripples in a pond were caused by me dumping nuclear waste or a really big rock. You know there is a disturbance and you know it was caused by a big object shattering the peace. But come on, the argument as presented makes it like the Emperor woildnt feel it solely because he was evil. Which is preposterous. Kenobi explains it perfectly well - an energy field created by all life that permeates the Galaxy will have a disturbance when a great amount of that life is snuffed out all at once. This hardly proves anything beyond "trained Force users can feel large effects through the Force".

A lightsaber blocks Force Lightning, the same as any other solid (more or less) object. Yoda actively contains and then repels the lightning back at its source, without any physical barrier.

And Jedi could use Force Lightning drawing from the Light Side of the Force, as in The Joiner Wars trilogy, which was canon at the same time as that movie.

Because as much as video games love to push it, stuff like "force choke" isn't a dakr side power. It's using the Force in ways that anyone trained in it can to do a bad thing. You're using telekinesis which doesn't care if it's being used to crush a windpipe or crush a tennis ball.

"Dark side powers" is bunk.

Yoda also stops a falling stone column without touching it, yet I don't think the Light Side of the force is antithetical to stone.

He also repels the column, I feel the need to point out. Apparently that's important somehow.

[Mechalich]

You know, I don't understand why people are supposed to something in a fictional universe being a certain way. The Force has a set of known traits, and having a light and dark side is among those traits. Both Word of God and extensive sources from both versions of canon and every publishing era have stated this quite flatly. We, the audience, know how the Force functions.

That doesn't mean that people in-universe possess the same knowledge, and in fact in the case of Star Wars its quite clear that the knowledge available even to the best informed group - which is the Jedi, derived from both Word of God and them simply being the largest and longest lasting group with the greatest exposure to all possible theories - is distinctly incomplete and that the Force functions in such a way as to resist and obscure study via the scientific method. As a result there are many competing belief systems in-universe. Yes, all of these are to some degree incomplete and/or wrong, but that's not a bad thing. A belief system is a model, and model's can provide useful results even when the underlying assumptions behind the model are incorrect, some of the terms are misplaced, or there are other errors.

This has been done for countless phenomena throughout human history, including fundamental forces like gravity and electromagnetism. Why should it be different in Star Wars?

[Peelee]

The Force has a set of known traits, and having a light and dark side is among those traits. Both Word of God and extensive sources from both versions of canon and every publishing era have stated this quite flatly.

Word of God changed as often as the sun rose and the old canon explicitly went against what you're claiming. New canon has not confirmed in either direction. If you think it has, well, you've been asked for a source and have yet to provide, so I'll just ask again.

ETA: Actually, it looks like current canon does stipulate this. At which point my argument simply reverts to "...and that is stupid," and goes into the same file as "suddenly Palpatine returned!", "I am all the Sith/I am all the Jedi", some droids being baby spaceships, Poe Dameron in general, and all sorts of other things about/in Star Wars that are painfully dumb.

[Aeson]

Second, since when is enthalpy the opposite of entropy?

Since some random person who no more than half-remembered their high school chemistry class was permitted to author a book, probably.


With regards to the discussion about whether or not the duality of the Force is an inherent aspect of the Force or merely something ascribed to it, I don't much care one way or the other, but I strongly dislike the way that powers have been assigned a Light or Dark Side affinity. There is nothing obviously inherently evil about a power like Force Lightning unless the metaphysics say that you can only manifest it for the purpose of inflicting gratuitous pain upon another or something like that - even if only a true master of it can safely manifest it outside of strictly-controlled environs, that just makes doing so reprehensibly reckless or perhaps demonstrative of a callous disregard for the health and well-being of those around you, which says far more about your morality than anything intrinsic to the power - and if the metaphysics do say that you have to mean to hurt someone in order to manifest it then it's hard to see where the temptation to use or even learn the ability is for anyone who isn't already in a pretty dark place. Something like the Jedi Mind Trick, though? A power like that is an obvious "gateway drug" to get someone started on a morally-corrosive path - it pretty clearly offers an easy, convenient path to personal gratification and gain in at least some scenarios; it doesn't necessarily immediately confront the person who abuses the power with the harm that they're doing the way that abusing something like Force lightning would; there's at least one obvious comforting lie ("if they really didn't want to do it then they'd have resisted the Mind Trick") you could tell yourself if your conscience gives you trouble; it's a power that's very hard to call morally acceptable except in extremis and yet also a power where it's very easy to see how you could rationalize abusing it in minor ways that allow moral decay to creep in and take hold; in short, it's exactly the sort of power for which a slippery slope-type argument is most applicable.

Force Lightning might be more flashy and Force Choke may be Vader's signature ability, but if there's a power in the movies that's a more thematic fit for the seductive, easy path that Yoda says the Dark Side offers than the Jedi Mind Trick then I don't know it.

[Keltest]

Since some random person who no more than half-remembered their high school chemistry class was permitted to author a book, probably.


With regards to the discussion about whether or not the duality of the Force is an inherent aspect of the Force or merely something ascribed to it, I don't much care one way or the other, but I strongly dislike the way that powers have been assigned a Light or Dark Side affinity. There is nothing obviously inherently evil about a power like Force Lightning unless the metaphysics say that you can only manifest it for the purpose of inflicting gratuitous pain upon another or something like that - even if only a true master of it can safely manifest it outside of strictly-controlled environs, that just makes doing so reprehensibly reckless or perhaps demonstrative of a callous disregard for the health and well-being of those around you, which says far more about your morality than anything intrinsic to the power - and if the metaphysics do say that you have to mean to hurt someone in order to manifest it then it's hard to see where the temptation to use or even learn the ability is for anyone who isn't already in a pretty dark place. Something like the Jedi Mind Trick, though? A power like that is an obvious "gateway drug" to get someone started on a morally-corrosive path - it pretty clearly offers an easy, convenient path to personal gratification and gain in at least some scenarios; it doesn't necessarily immediately confront the person who abuses the power with the harm that they're doing the way that abusing something like Force lightning would; there's at least one obvious comforting lie ("if they really didn't want to do it then they'd have resisted the Mind Trick") you could tell yourself if your conscience gives you trouble; it's a power that's very hard to call morally acceptable except in extremis and yet also a power where it's very easy to see how you could rationalize abusing it in minor ways that allow moral decay to creep in and take hold; in short, it's exactly the sort of power for which a slippery slope-type argument is most applicable.

Force Lightning might be more flashy and Force Choke may be Vader's signature ability, but if there's a power in the movies that's a more thematic fit for the seductive, easy path that Yoda says the Dark Side offers than the Jedi Mind Trick then I don't know it.

I mean the Jedi Mind Trick is, at its heart, just convincing somebody of something really well. You arent forcefully imposing your will on the world the way you do with a violent act of telekinesis or electrokinesis, and it only works on the "weak minded" who lack a strong will of their own. It doesnt strike me as particularly "seductive" or "easy" compared to just blasting the hapless stormtroopers with lightning or snapping their necks or something.

[Aeson]

I mean the Jedi Mind Trick is, at its heart, just convincing somebody of something really well.

Oh, then it's okay to use the Mind Trick to get the salesman to shave another thousand dollars off the price of my new car because I'm just convincing him he'll lose the sale otherwise. It's okay to use the Mind Trick to push that guy I'm playing cards against to raise the stakes just a bit more when I've got a very strong hand, because it's just convincing him that I'm trying to bluff him. It's okay to use the Mind Trick to get the jeweler to just let me walk out of the store without paying for an expensive ring because I'm just convincing them that they want to give me a gift. It's okay to use the Mind Trick to get my date to sleep with me even though she said no because I'm just convincing her to change her mind.

Yes, I see absolutely no way in which the Jedi Mind Trick is even possibly problematic if it's only "convincing" people really really well. Clearly it's okay because I'm just "convincing" people to do what I want, and no way could any of the examples I gave above even possibly be construed as harmful or as an abuse of the power. No way at all that getting into the habit of attempting to use the Mind Trick on anyone I encounter while trying to get them to do something for me could possibly be wrong or abusive; after all, it's just me being really "convincing" and turning on the charm.

Also, the way it's presented in the films appears indistinguishable from magical mind domination to me; the people that the mind trick gets used on blindly repeat what they're told by the person who used the mind trick on them, which looks to me like it's going way, way beyond merely "convincing" them of the rightness of the position held by the one who mind tricked them.

it only works on the "weak minded" who lack a strong will of their own.

Yes, if they weren't weak-minded fools then this wouldn't work on them, so clearly they deserve to be victimized by my abuse of the Jedi Mind Trick. It's their own fault, really.

[Fyraltari]

Word of God changed as often as the sun rose and the old canon explicitly went against what you're claiming. New canon has not confirmed in either direction. If you think it has, well, you've been asked for a source and have yet to provide, so I'll just ask again.

ETA: Actually, it looks like current canon does stipulate this. At which point my argument simply reverts to "...and that is stupid," and goes into the same file as "suddenly Palpatine returned!", "I am all the Sith/I am all the Jedi", some droids being baby spaceships, Poe Dameron in general, and all sorts of other things about/in Star Wars that are painfully dumb.

Feh, I give it three years tops before they retcon it.

[Peelee]

Feh, I give it three years tops before they retcon it.

No bet.

[Fyraltari]

Season 4, Episode 20 : Bounty

Spoiler: Recap

Show

We open on Assajj Ventress arriving on Tattooine aboard some civilian transport craft. I forgot, was she involved on the kidnapping of Jabba's son? She's got a snazzy new outfit, I dig it. She gets into Mos Esley's cantina, apparently set on drinking herself to unconsciousness. Some alien strats trying to flirt with her. She tells hi to get lost, he grabs her wrist and she guts him dead with her saber. Sheesh, noboby likes a creep, but that's a tad overboard. Hmm, wonder if that's why everyone was so chill about Obi-Wan maiming a dude in ANH. The barman gives Ventress a drink paid for by two people at a table. A pink-purple skinned lady, called Latzurazi and Bossk. They explain that they're bounty hunters and that the guy she's just killed was on their team. Bossk asks whe she got lightsabers, she says she's stolen them. You know, I'd like to see a Star Wars character who actually just found/stole/bought a lightsaber and isn't a Jedi or a Sith one day. Could be interesting. They offer her his spot on the team for their next job while threatening to turn her over if she refuses. She tentatively agrees.

They take her to a building (that Embo is leaving, having apparently declined to take part on this job) guarded by Dengar, who I will always remember as "the guy from ESB with toliet-paper on his head. Ventress meets the bounty hunter's leader: Boba Fett.
Okay I have three things to say:
1) How are these guys free? Did Boba and Bossk manage to escape during the riot at the beginning of the previous arc? Because if so, it sounds like Cad Bane's plan was even worse than I thought. And how is Embo out? He just got arrested!
2) Did Boba get a growth spurt? He looks like he's sixteen, not twelve.
3) How dod they not know who Ventress is? She should be the most wanted woman in the galaxy, with both the Republic and the Separatists offering fortunes for her head.
Ventress finds the idea of a leader so young risible, and she refuses to give her name. She also says w
she doesn't take orders very well, especially from a kid. However, she admits she needs the money and the hunters still need a sixth member, so she's hired. So that's the team: Boba, Ventress, Bossk, Dengar, Latz and a droid named IC.

They fly to a space elevator on another planet and are welcomed by a alien of a species I don't know, called Major Rigosso. They are tasked to protect an underground tram carrying a very precious cargo. the nature of which they need not concern themselves with. Also, Dengar's head-covering are actually kind-of cool-looking when they cover his mouth. The recipient of the cargo is Rigosso's lord, Ultua Blank, who rules the planet with an iron fish. Must be hard to do. Also, if they fail, he'll have them killed. Boba asks why they can't just fly the cargo to its destination but the planet's atmosphere is "fully pressurized" (what?) so aerial travel isn't feasible. The elevators take the seventh of them to the undersurface. Rigosso explains he expects trouble from a group of marauders. Rigosso shows them a box, being loaded into the tram and tells them not to open it under any circumstance. They get in, with two additional soldiers and leave. None of them spots the group of masked silhouettes following them by riding giant bugs.

Rigosso, the two soldiers, IC and LAtz protec the cargo proper, Bossk and Boba are in the engine room and Assajj and Dengar take care of the train's tail. Dengar tries making small-talk with the new girl but she's not really interested. The marauders catch up with the train (what is up with Star Wars and wildlife being as fast as high-tech vehicles?) and attack. Dengar and ventress puts up a good fight (Ventress doesn't draw her sabers, though, which I don't understand) but most of the assaillants get past them. Dengar calls Boba to tell him "we've got company." God, I hate that sentence. Boba doesn't know how many ennemies there are or whether they are on the train yet or still trying to catch up. Can't you be more precise, Dengar? The pirates split up to attack both groups at once. The hunters (and Rigosso) manage to kill or throw overboard several of them, but another fresh troop gets there. Latz uses her scarf (that is made of blades linked together) as some sort of chain-whip, Assajj finally draws her lightsabers and Dengar starts straight up planting bombs on his adversaries (what's with this show and useing explosives as mêlée weapons?). One of the attackers manages to push Dengar overboard, though.

Boba leaves the engine room (while Bossk is till fighting off opponents) to get to the cargo, he gets in to late to help the two soldiers who are thrown off the train too, but he kills several of the ninjas (the marauders are dressed up and fight like Hollywood-ninjas). He gets to the passenger car (where the cargo is) just as IC starts spinning around and shooting 360° killing several hostiles. Ventress is fighting alone on the rear, and even more ennemies are climbing aboard. She holds up, but she calls for help, for fear of being swarmed. Also the leader sees her using Force-push to get rid of a trio of fighters. Boba sends Bossk to help her out, but he's ambushed by several ninjas who blow dust in his eyes and push him out. The leader of the Marauders gets passed Ventress and reaches rigosso who orders LAtz and IC to take him out. He manages to disarm IC and get Latz to the ground, but when he plants some electrical device on the droid, he just rips it off, impressive. The leader manages to get Latz's scarf-blade entangled around IC and pushes him overboard, taking Latz with him.

He tells Rigosso he wants what's his, and kills the Major with a knife throw before he's got time to replay "over my dead body." Smart. Boba gets rid of the last ninjas just as the leader enters the passenger car and they start fighting. They fighting ends up tipping the box over which opens and lets out a young woman who's not even tied up. Could she like, open it at any time? Boba tells her he'll protect her and she slaps him just as the leader kicks Boba in the face (again). Turns out the leader is her brother trying to rescue her. Also they are some grey-skinned but still human-looking aliens, different from Rigosso's species. Ventress gets there and tell the brother to step aside. He obviously refuses and trhrows a smoke bomb, which he uses to ambush Ventress and disarm her. She overpowers him, ultimately using the Force to pummel him into the walls and throw him to the floor.

Boba comes to and asks why the girl they're protecting is fighting them. In fairness to him he was hit on the head repeatedly like thrity seconds ago. Ventress states the obvious: she's on their side. Boba orders her to tie them and leaves. The prisoner laments she never asked to be taken away from her home and family and tells Ventress she'll never know what it's like. Assajj tells her she does, and the girl replies that ventress just care for the money, they don't matter to her. Boba gets in telling the "rookie" to come with him. Assajj tells the prisoner that she is, in fact, just a job she doesn't care about. She meets up with Boba who tells her they're almost arrived and she's going to get her share of the reward. Assajj says that as one of the only two left, she gets half, he refuses. She calls him "boy", he gets angry, she force-chokes him.

The train reaches Ultua Blank's palace and Ventress ands him the box. He's delightfed to get his bride and gives her a briefcase full of unmarked credits (looks like gold ingots, weren't they crystals a few seasons ago?). She gets in the train and it leaves Ultua opens the box to find a tied up, and very pissed Boba Fett inside. Ventress, the leader and the prisoner, take the train to a rendez-vous point where they meet with the rest of the "marauders" who give Assajj a handful of credits. She lets the girl go and they leave. Ventress gets back to the top of the space elevator where Dengar, Latz, Bossk and IC are waiting (how did they get back there so fast?), she hands them the briefcase, with five-sixth of the money still inside. She tells Boba won't be long and they should give him his part. then she says she's not staying as part of the team. because she used to be just like them, but now she's changed, now she has a future.

Y'all came in the smae ship, that's gonna be an awkward flight back.

Spoiler: My thoughts

Show

No, seriously, how are these hunters free? And how do they not recognize her?
Still, that's a nice development on Assajj's character arc. For the first time she gets to leave a group of her own will rather than be ripped away from it. And for the first time in her life, she makes an actual decision, which is to choose to empathize with the person whose shoes she used to walk in.

Honestly, the "reveal" of the cargo was the weakest part of the episode, and it doesn't really makes sense from an in-universe perspective. They should just have had the hunters openly escort a prisoner from the word go.

It was nice to see each hunter's little trick, they really get to be the most unique fighters in Star Wars, as in you always know what to expect from a Jedi, a sith or a trooper, but Bounty Hunters tend to each have their own tricks.

Also, I hope they didn't make too much of a dent in these isnurgents (I guess) forces, they killed a lot of these guys' best warriors.

Next up: Brothers. ****ing finally!

[Mechalich]

No, seriously, how are these hunters free? And how do they not recognize her?

In the first case, probably bribery. Star Wars jails at this time period are admittedly almost as bad as Arkham, roll with it. As to the second, well, the galaxy's a big place. Ventress is Dathomirian, and those are really rare, but she happens to look almost exactly like a Rattataki (she did live there for some time and shaved her head to appear more like them), who are less rare. Female Rattataki mercenaries are significantly more common around the fringes of the galaxy than rogue Dathomirian Sith apprentices by probably a factor of like 10,000 to 1. So the chances of running into someone who looks like Ventress, but isn't Ventress, is actually much higher than actually running into Ventress, though the lightsabers are admittedly pushing it a lot.

One thing here is that facial recognition technology barely exists in the context of Star Wars, which allows Ventress to walk around fairly openly without every camera on every planet pinging her as a wanted fugitive, and the hunters apparently don't have access to any sort of handheld facial scanner that would make their jobs much easier.

[Fyraltari]

In the first case, probably bribery. Star Wars jails at this time period are admittedly almost as bad as Arkham, roll with it.

Starting to think taking the Senate hostage to spring Ziro out of jail was overkill...

As to the second, well, the galaxy's a big place. Ventress is Dathomirian, and those are really rare, but she happens to look almost exactly like a Rattataki (she did live there for some time and shaved her head to appear more like them), who are less rare. Female Rattataki mercenaries are significantly more common around the fringes of the galaxy than rogue Dathomirian Sith apprentices by probably a factor of like 10,000 to 1. So the chances of running into someone who looks like Ventress, but isn't Ventress, is actually much higher than actually running into Ventress, though the lightsabers are admittedly pushing it a lot.

One thing here is that facial recognition technology barely exists in the context of Star Wars, which allows Ventress to walk around fairly openly without every camera on every planet pinging her as a wanted fugitive, and the hunters apparently don't have access to any sort of handheld facial scanner that would make their jobs much easier.

You'd think her picture would be circulating at least. And we know there is in fact a facial database of criminals because it came up when Ahsoka lost her lightsaber and when the daughters of the Pontarian leader were kidnapped.

[Keltest]

Its not out of the question that the Republic wouldnt make her face public because they dont want bounty hunters trying to go after her in their name. Theyre ostensibly trying to take the moral high ground after all, so having the separatists assassinated would be a really bad look for their public image.

[Fyraltari]

Its not out of the question that the Republic wouldnt make her face public because they dont want bounty hunters trying to go after her in their name. Theyre ostensibly trying to take the moral high ground after all, so having the separatists assassinated would be a really bad look for their public image.

They put a bounty on Eval, Bane and Hardeen's heads. Bounty Hunters are supposed to work for the Republic, in the first place.

EDIT: Also, bounty also take their quarries alive, at least some of the times.

[Keltest]

They put a bounty on Eval, Bane and Hardeen's heads. Bounty Hunters are supposed to work for the Republic, in the first place.

EDIT: Also, bounty also take their quarries alive, at least some of the times.

Boba Fett at least is primarily a criminal at this stage. He quite probably doesnt have much access, or interest, in Republic bounties. Heck, he probably has one on his own head if he broke out or was broken out of prison.

[Mechalich]

You'd think her picture would be circulating at least. And we know there is in fact a facial database of criminals because it came up when Ahsoka lost her lightsaber and when the daughters of the Pontarian leader were kidnapped.

It probably is circulating, in the Republic, but Tatooine is not presently in the Republic, it's still under Hutt control. The Hutts could be blocking the dissemination of Republic criminal records in order to protect their own agents. Now, the bounty hunters should still have personal access to the relevant databases, so there's that.

One thing I don't recall from the episode is whether or not it is implied that Boba does recognize Ventress and just doesn't care. It's not entirely out of character for him (or Bossk and Dengar for that matter, based on other sources involving them) to decide they can't take Ventress down without losses and that working with her is a better option, at least in the short term. And they do get paid, so it kind of works out.

[Fyraltari]

Boba Fett at least is primarily a criminal at this stage. He quite probably doesnt have much access, or interest, in Republic bounties. Heck, he probably has one on his own head if he broke out or was broken out of prison.

It probably is circulating, in the Republic, but Tatooine is not presently in the Republic, it's still under Hutt control. The Hutts could be blocking the dissemination of Republic criminal records in order to protect their own agents. Now, the bounty hunters should still have personal access to the relevant databases, so there's that.

No way Dooku isn't offering a fortune for her head too. He's buying dead Jedi a million apiece, his "treacherous" apprentice should be worth even more.

One thing I don't recall from the episode is whether or not it is implied that Boba does recognize Ventress and just doesn't care. It's not entirely out of character for him (or Bossk and Dengar for that matter, based on other sources involving them) to decide they can't take Ventress down without losses and that working with her is a better option, at least in the short term. And they do get paid, so it kind of works out.

He clearly doesn't. He tells her "you don't know who you're dealing with" and she casually Force chokes him saying he doesn't know who he's dealing with.

[Sapphire Guard]

The whole point of bounty hunting is to bring in fugitives that aren't in your jurisdiction. Maybe they just don't have a good mugshot of Ventress.

[Peelee]

The whole point of bounty hunting is to bring in fugitives that aren't in your jurisdiction. Maybe they just don't have a good mugshot of Ventress.

Eh, I'd argue that the point of bounty hunting is to outsource fugitive search and capture.

[Keltest]

Dooku isnt actually that interested in killing Ventress for its own sake. He did it because Sideous told him to do it or be executed. She demonstrated she isnt capable of assassinating him even with every advantage, and the Nightsisters are broken now, so he doesnt have a huge reason to proactively hunt her down, assuming he even believes her to still be alive after the attack on Dathomir.

[Fyraltari]

Dooku isnt actually that interested in killing Ventress for its own sake. He did it because Sideous told him to do it or be executed. She demonstrated she isnt capable of assassinating him even with every advantage, and the Nightsisters are broken now, so he doesnt have a huge reason to proactively hunt her down, assuming he even believes her to still be alive after the attack on Dathomir.

He singled her out to be killed, to Grievous. He has no reason to think she's dead, Grievous didn't kill her and her body would be nowhere to be found on Dathomir. He doesn't particularly care for the death of individual Jedi and yet he offers a small fortune for any of them.

[Keltest]

He singled her out to be killed, to Grievous. He has no reason to think she's dead, Grievous didn't kill her and her body would be nowhere to be found on Dathomir. He doesn't particularly care for the death of individual Jedi and yet he offers a small fortune for any of them.

The Jedi are different because the whole point of the war is to wipe them all out, or put them in a position for Palpatine to get them. Theyre being killed out of principle.

[pendell]

Eh, I'd argue that the point of bounty hunting is to outsource fugitive search and capture.

Criminals post bounties also. Boba Fett in the original trilogy scored a bounty from the Empire for Han, then a second one from Jabba for the same target.

So it wouldn't be surprising if a bounty hunter wasn't also a wanted criminal in at least some jurisdictions. The forceful apprehension and transport of a person to be put into the hands of someone like Jabba looks an awful lot like kidnapping, and might be well considered as such if the local authorities don't consider the arrest warrant legally valid.

I imagine there are all kinds of bounty hunters in Star Wars, ranging from the highly ethical, who would only deliver live prisoners and only for reputable employers, all the way down to those the Imperials in ESB called 'scum', people who would do anything to anyone on behalf of any employer, provided the price was right. The original Boba Fett in ESB seemed to be the "mercenary" that Han Solo started out as -- any job for any employer provided the price is right. It looks like they're trying to clean up his image in the newest show, but the Boba of TCW sounds like he's still an amoral mercenary. Much like his father Jango, who was willing to assassinate political officials, kill his compatriots when they were captured, and serve as donor for a clone army. Not a very nice person, even if he seemed to care for Boba.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

Criminals post bounties also.

I didn't say the bounty had to be a fugitive from the law.

[Fyraltari]

The Jedi are different because the whole point of the war is to wipe them all out, or put them in a position for Palpatine to get them. Theyre being killed out of principle.

Still, he has money to spend and she's a known loose end.

The original Boba Fett in ESB seemed to be the "mercenary" that Han Solo started out as -- any job for any employer provided the price is right. It looks like they're trying to clean up his image in the newest show, but the Boba of TCW sounds like he's still an amoral mercenary.

Well, they're making the character evolve. That tends to happen once you're promoted to protagonist.

[Peelee]

What's wrong with an amoral mercenary protagonist?

[Fyraltari]

What's wrong with an amoral mercenary protagonist?

Nothing. But dynamic characters tend to be more entertaining than static ones.

[Peelee]

Nothing. But dynamic characters tend to be more entertaining than static ones.

Mercenaries can't be dynamic?

[Fyraltari]

Mercenaries can't be dynamic?

I don't understand where you are going with this.

[Peelee]

I don't understand where you are going with this.

Two points:

First, character evolution does not necessitate an upward direction.

Second, sometimes a story is about a character who changes (or has changed), and sometimes a story is about a world that is changing (or has changed).

In short, I was saying that "that tends to happen once you're promoted to protagonist" should have something more to back it.