Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

[dancrilis]

How close was the election?

Single person election and a decision was made, as such the decision reached carried 100% of the vote.

[Peelee]

Single person election and a decision was made, as such the decision reached carried 100% of the vote.

And yet it was a lone swing vote that made the difference.

[Fyraltari]

How close was the election?

Almost ended up with a hung parliament.

[Grim Portent]

Talzin's basically only hanging around on Dathomir to fix Maul when he gets there. She's actually dead as I understand it, the whole green mist thing is basically the Nightsister equivalent of being a force ghost, though it doesn't ever get explained to my recollection. It's probably difficult to manifest like that, which might be why she's around so little after turning into a cloud of smoke. As is I think she only appears in one more episode in the entire show, and it's not even a Maul one weirdly enough.

Spoiler:

Show

It's a Windu and Jar-Jar one, which is a very odd combination.

[Keltest]

Everything about Darth Maul's resurrection makes me sad, from suddenly turning him into a Nightbrother out of nowhere to the fact that he's apparently an unstoppable killing machine with better prosthetics than Darth Vader even though they were built IN A CAVE! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!
sorry, but i had to do it

[Peelee]

Everything about Darth Maul's resurrection makes me sad, from suddenly turning him into a Nightbrother out of nowhere to the fact that he's apparently an unstoppable killing machine with better prosthetics than Darth Vader even though they were built IN A CAVE! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!

Everything about Darth Maul's resurrection makes me sad, from being resurrected...

[Keltest]

Everything about Darth Maul's resurrection makes me sad, from being resurrected...

I figured that part went without saying. Let the poor bisected man lie.

Although his death in Rebels was well done.

[Mechalich]

Talzin's basically only hanging around on Dathomir to fix Maul when he gets there. She's actually dead as I understand it, the whole green mist thing is basically the Nightsister equivalent of being a force ghost, though it doesn't ever get explained to my recollection. It's probably difficult to manifest like that, which might be why she's around so little after turning into a cloud of smoke. As is I think she only appears in one more episode in the entire show, and it's not even a Maul one weirdly enough.

Generally, I'm fine with Talzin as a plot device rather than a character. Sometimes that's all the role in a story someone has. Talzin's role is to do inexplicable Force-spells that advance the greater Maul-Ventress-Obi-Won plot, which is one of the more important plots in the show as a whole and has central roles for some of its best characters.

[Peelee]

I figured that part went without saying. Let the poor bisected man lie.

Although his death in Rebels was well done.

Yeah, but I think I'm funny. Also, I disliked his death in Rebels.

Spoiler: I don't even know why I'm spoilering this.

Show

The poor original movie. Whoever owns Star Wars at the time will not rest until every last shred of it is stripped away. "Your father wanted you to have it when you were old enough". Nope, he didn't even know you were alive, and attachments are forbidden anyway., Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father". Nope, same person. "Obi-Wan Kenobi? Obi-Wan.... Now that's a name. I've not heard in a long time... A long time." Except for, like, last year, when I killed a Sith Lord. Again.

I'll watch Kenobi, and I'll probably enjoy it (as I enjoyed Rebels. Even that part), but I'm going to mentally shake my fist at it like. crotchety old man the whole time.

[dancrilis]

Spoiler: I don't even know why I'm spoilering this.

Show

The poor original movie. Whoever owns Star Wars at the time will not rest until every last shred of it is stripped away.

Agreed as stated before:

I hear you, Star Wars: A New Hope is an incredible movie, at times I wonder if every other movie Star Wars movie is merely trying to tear it down.

Which makes some sense after all if you what to compete with something but can't you can always try to cheat and hope nobody notices.

[Keltest]

Mostly i liked that it was quick and didnt involve a massive 20 minute lightsaber duel between two old men. Even if it did involve one of the most idiotic lightsaber blocks i have ever seen.

[Fyraltari]

Talzin's basically only hanging around on Dathomir to fix Maul when he gets there. She's actually dead as I understand it, the whole green mist thing is basically the Nightsister equivalent of being a force ghost, though it doesn't ever get explained to my recollection. It's probably difficult to manifest like that, which might be why she's around so little after turning into a cloud of smoke. As is I think she only appears in one more episode in the entire show, and it's not even a Maul one weirdly enough.

Except she misted just before Grievous hit her, so I'm unclear as to how she'd have died.

Everything about Darth Maul's resurrection makes me sad, from suddenly turning him into a Nightbrother

Speaking of which, shouldn't he be calling himself "Maul Oppress" in Rebels?

out of nowhere to the fact that he's apparently an unstoppable killing machine with better prosthetics than Darth Vader even though they were built IN A CAVE! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!
sorry, but i had to do it

How are they better than Vader's?

Generally, I'm fine with Talzin as a plot device rather than a character. Sometimes that's all the role in a story someone has. Talzin's role is to do inexplicable Force-spells that advance the greater Maul-Ventress-Obi-Won plot, which is one of the more important plots in the show as a whole and has central roles for some of its best characters.

Characters as plot device are fine when they show up once to do one thing. Boba Fett was a plot device to separate Han from the rest of the cast. It worked.

Talzin however not only does she keep getting involved, but she does so in contradictory ways:

She wants to help Ventress kill Dooku so she loans her two assassins and sends them to him, when that fails she gives him a brainwashed mole in the form of Savage. And when he breaks free from their control, she starts helping him instead of punishing him. Oh and she could have killed Dooku at any time. I can accept that a prop is a tree, but it's harder when it keeps falling on the stage.

Also the limits of her abilities are non-existant so that undermines every situation she's in.

[Keltest]

How are they better than Vader's?

Well he can run and be acrobatic on them.

[Peelee]

Mostly i liked that it was quick and didnt involve a massive 20 minute lightsaber duel between two old men. Even if it did involve one of the most idiotic lightsaber blocks i have ever seen.

Totally fair, and I completely agree.

Well he can run and be acrobatic on them.

Dangit, I was going to say "well he can move faster than a nice walk".

[Keltest]

Well you see, I too think that I am funny.

[dancrilis]

Talzin however not only does she keep getting involved, but she does so in contradictory ways:

She wants to help Ventress kill Dooku so she loans her two assassins and sends them to him, when that fails she gives him a brainwashed mole in the form of Savage. And when he breaks free from their control, she starts helping him instead of punishing him. Oh and she could have killed Dooku at any time. I can accept that a prop is a tree, but it's harder when it keeps falling on the stage.

Maybe she is just bored, and amusing herself with whatever seems entertaining at the time.

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, but he also had lungs that work fine.

[Keltest]

Yeah, but he also had lungs that work fine.

That should matter a lot less for mechanical legs. Its not like his muscles need oxygen or anything to work.

[Peelee]

Yeah, but he also had lungs that work fine.

I'd imagine that the fighting Vader does requires more lung power than jogging for ten seconds, like to catch the ship getting away with the Death Star plans, as a quick example.

[Fyraltari]

Meh, I don't particularly care either way. It's a detail. It's like asking why a guerilla movement on the run could afford a better prosthetic for Luke than the Jedi Order could pay for Anakin.

Maybe she is just bored, and amusing herself with whatever seems entertaining at the time.

That's a bad excuse and you know it.

[pendell]

Meh, I don't particularly care either way. It's a detail. It's like asking why a guerilla movement on the run could afford a better prosthetic for Luke than the Jedi Order could pay for Anakin.

That's easy. A guerrilla movement doesn't have the 504th accounting legion to ensure that all purchases of equipment haven't had at least three levels of approval and followed all the regulations in the handbook. A guerrilla org is one step away from a criminal group -- and in fact, at least in Rogue one, several alliance members are criminals.

:Ponders an expense report and considers the alternative of a life of crime:

Tongue-in-cheek ,

Brian P.

[Fyraltari]

A guerrilla org is one step away from a criminal group -- and in fact, at least in Rogue one, several alliance members are criminals.

All rebels are criminals by definition.

[dancrilis]

All rebels are criminals by definition.

Depends on the laws - staging a rebellion against your parents by not eating your brussels sprouts probably isn't illegal in many places, perhap in a galaxy far far away violence insurrection against the legitimate galactic government is not illegal (although that would be an odd oversight in the legal system).

[Peelee]

Meh, I don't particularly care either way. It's a detail. It's like asking why a guerilla movement on the run could afford a better prosthetic for Luke than the Jedi Order could pay for Anakin.

Imean, they're insanely well-funded.

[Fyraltari]

Imean, they're insanely well-funded.

Yet, I'd think they'd notice if their budget suddenly included commissioning an entire army.

EDIT:

Depends on the laws - staging a rebellion against your parents by not eating your brussels sprouts probably isn't illegal in many places, perhap in a galaxy far far away violence insurrection against the legitimate galactic government is not illegal (although that would be an odd oversight in the legal system).

A) Not obeying the Emperor is quite obviously a crime under the Empire.

B) Leia clearly states they were acting against the law in Bloodlines.

[Peelee]

Yet, I'd think they'd notice if their budget suddenly included commissioning an entire army.

Look, I was just pointing out that the Rebellion could afford it. For the Empire, well, those prosthetics were put in by a noted *******.

[Kornaki]

Look, I was just pointing out that the Rebellion could afford it. For the Empire, well, those prosthetics were put in by a noted *******.

I think Fryaltari thought you were talking about the Jedi order, who bought an army without even noticing.

[Peelee]

I think Fryaltari thought you were talking about the Jedi order, who bought an army without even noticing.

I thought it was fairly clear I was talking about the Rebellion, but possibly. Even then, though, the Jedi didn't foot the bill for the clones.

[Grim Portent]

Except she misted just before Grievous hit her, so I'm unclear as to how she'd have died.

Same way as Obi-Wan, who dissapeared before Vader even hit him.

The idea seems to be that turning into mist killed her, but let her hang around afterwards and still do magick, whereas if Grievous had gotten to hit her she'd just be dead.


As for her motives, I think she mostly wants revenge on Sidious in any way she can get it, and to try and help Maul survive and rise in power. There's some backstory from comics which doesn't come up in the show, but basically Sidious approached Talzin to exchange knowledge, Sith lore for Nightsister magick. Talzin agreed and they spent some time teaching each other on Dathomir, but once Sidious had everything he wanted he left with knowledge of magick to bolster his own alchemy, kidnapping Talzin's son Maul in the process and leaving Talzin mostly with knowledge that wasn't particularly useful.

Talzin was obviously pretty pissed off, but there's limits to what she can do to Sidious directly since he's very powerful, both individually and politically (wealthy family, ties to the senate) and not tied to Dathomir like she is, so she had to wait and trust that the force would bring her instruments through which she could seek revenge. Cue Savage, Ventress and a returned Maul all of whom are more directly powerful.

Sadly none of this wound up in the show, which is a failing on the show's part, because you shouldn't need to read other material to get a show unless the show is explicitly a multimedia project. Not the only thing that got skipped for time mind you, but there's certainly a few entire episodes that could have been cut to make time for more interesting arcs.

[Dargaron]

Everything about Darth Maul's resurrection makes me sad, from being resurrected...

It's incredibly disappointing that so much narrative space got devoted to bringing back Darth Maul, while Grievous was mostly relegated to "angry cyborg who hates Jedi." His pre-cyborg backstory in the New Essential Guide to Species is wild: dude was born on the Star Wars equivalent of a pre-warp civilization being raided by slavers from Huk, a planet on the edge of Republic Space. He and his mate captured enemy equipment, kicked the slavers off their planet, reverse-engineered a war fleet and went on to attack the colonies that had supported the slavers during their raids, so successfully that the Huk government ran to the Republic for help against this "unprovoked" invasion.

He's basically a successful version of The Commander from XCOM who rallied his planet against alien invaders and led them into the space age out of sheer necessity. He should have been oozing charisma and force of personality. But no. Angry cyborg who fails a lot and hates Jedi.