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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 1, Episode 18: Mystery of a Thousand Moons

    Spoiler: Recap
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    We open seconds after the last epsiode as Obi-Wan and Anakin prepares to bring Vindi in. The little rodent droid steals one of the bombs and commits suicide flooding the lab with the Blue Shadow. Because apparently bombs that were disable using pincers are still perfectly functionnable also why didn't you restrain that one whe you capture it, you idiots? Padmé triggers the lab shutdown sealing the entire lab shut so that no virus can escape to Naboo's atmoshpere.
    Spoiler: Hmm, what about thoses holes you guys made in the roof during your attack?
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    This however traps Ahsoka, Rex, Padmé, Jar Jar and some clones inside. Padmé and Jar JAr managed to put there hazmat suits on but Ahsoka & Co aren't fast enough to reach the panic room and are infected. Despite the fact that clone armour can be sealed well enough to allow for a walk in outer space. Of course, of course. Anakin is extremely upset by this development but Obi-Wan argues that bringing Vindi to Coruscant fast is their best hope to find a cure and they can't help the others from where they are anyway.

    The episode is pslit between the two Jedi and the others from now, so I'll summarize both one after the other. Ahsoka and Co realize that the surviving droids (there are surviving droids!? Why were you all "mission accomplished! We win"-like when there was still hostiles unaccounted for? Why are you so incompetent!?) will surely try to escape the lab and so release the virus. Since thy're already exposed to the disease Ahsoka and the clones decide to help Padmé track them down even though that'll make their condition worse. MEanwhile I wonder how long the virus can survive outside of an host. They find several groups and destroy them quite easily. One droid manages to reach the top of a ladder leading to a manhole leading to the outside and gloats that it's to let to stop him. He shoots the anhole but the blasts ricochets all around the place à la compacter scene in A New Hope and fries him. THat one made laugh, I'll admit. during the battle, Jar Jar is his hopeless self and falls on Padmé breaching her suit and exposing her to contagion. Ahsoka feels terrible for failing to protect the Senator but she assures her that things like that happens around Jar Jar in a battlefield and it's not her fault. All the clones except Rex die and while Padmé is sorry for her he simply says that dying is what they are born for. I worry about his mental state.

    Anakin and Obi-Wan reach Theed and deliver Vindi to Tycho who tells them they know of a cure for the virus: it's made of a root found on the remote world of Iego, the Planet of the Thousand Moons, deep in Separatist Space. You would have hoped that after the last plague of this virus there would be hospital with medicine in storage just in case but I guess they aren't any better than we are at preparing for catastrophes so Anakin and Obi-Wan leave for Iego. Damn, space travel is fast in this universe.

    Upon arrival the are surprised to see, in addition to the aforementionned moons a whole ship graveyard. They do manage to land and are welcomed by a crowd of battle droids. Anakin mindlessly charges them and destroys a good number before noticing that they don't fight back and all have mismatched parts and graffitti on thems. Obi-wan congratulates Ani on killing seventeen unarmed droid as another one falls down and Anakin meekly corrects "eighteen..." One droid announces that the Mighty Jebo wishes for an audience with them and they are brought to a twelvish year old boy using a vulture droid as support beam for a hamac. Anakin congratulates him on his droid-reprogramming skill and both bound somewhat over their shared interest of droid making. The mood quickly sours as Jebo evades answering to where they can find the root which prompts Anakin to draw his lightsaber to his face. Me likey, his Vader is showing. Obi-Wan manages to cool the situation and they are told the root grows inside a nearby chasm but Jebo says it doesn't matter because ever since the Separatists left (his servants were damaged droid that, I guess, were deemed to expansive to repair) evrybody who tries to leave is stopped by a certain Draal, the mere mention of the name making the droids quiver in fear. An old quarren confirms Jebo's story calling Draal "the phantom ruler of Ieago" Anakin calls bulls...upertition so he shows them a recording of the death of rodian pilot's death. The rodian was Jebo's friend so that was kinda callous. Nobody care though. Also Anakin called the quarren "twitchy" which feels somewhat specist.

    Anakin and Obi-wan descend into the chasm where they fight a wasted good design of a bat-like creature and bad design of monstruous plant. There's a visual gag of Anakin drawing a trowel with the same gravitas and determined look Obi-Wan draws his lightsaber with that was nice. they get what they came for without too much trouble though and prepare to leave without listening to the warnings about Draal's ghost. I know Force Ghost aren't a thing until Revenge of the Jedi but you'd think pshycic monks wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the supernatural. Obi-Wan does point out that even if there is no phantom, something is destroying the ships so they better be careful. tHey still trigger a defense system that propmpts a Death Star dish-like cannon to shoot laser that jumps over from asteroid to asteroid in a deadly grid. The people on Iego watches the fireworks. None of them warned them about the form the attack would take though, jerks. Anakin and Obi-Wan retreats to Anakin's fury especially since Padmé calls to tell them the lab is secure but she has been contaminated and wants him to promise nobody will evr open the lab. The communications cuts as she was about to tell him her love for him. Anakin wants to try again immediately but Obi-Wan wants to try to get more data about whatever they are facing, saying that before making a jump, it pays to take two steps back, Anakin retorts that sometimes the will to jump is enough. Obi-wan asks him to trust him and Ankin calms down. I like this bit. Even though the war and Sidiou's manipultions are getting to Ani (that last bit sounded positively Sithish) he stills has enough confidence in Obi-Wan that a simple "trust me" from his mentor and friend is enough for him to reconsider. That's friendhsip, right there.

    Anakin and obi-Wan gather the Iegans and expalin that their ghost is just a Separatrist trap. Why on Earth would the Separatists do this? what do they gain from trapping people on this planet? The people don't belive them until a hooded shining figure enters. This is one of the "Angels of the moon of Ieago" Anakin compared Padmé to back in TPM. You can't see may face right now but I'm giving a disapproving look. The angel expalins that the Separatists draw them away from their home-moon and Obi-wan decides this must be where the main laser emmiter is. Because he shook his magic 8-ball offscreen, I don't know. the commandeer Jebo's vulture dorids and link them to Artoo so he cazn remotely fly them (why can't they fly themselves? Why would the astromech have better flying skills than the droids made to fight in space?) and use them as human (well droid) shields against the rays while they take down the cannon. The plans work and they triumphantly announce to the Iegan that they can leave whenever now.

    We cut to Anakin and Obi-Wan at the lab as Padmé, Rex and Ahsoka are being evacuated. The mediacl droid expects a full recovery but everybody is just standing around in the open near the lab's open hatch without any protective gear, were'ent you afraid the Blue Shadow would be released. Granted they could have used pumps to make some sort of airlock but a line of dialog about that would've been nice. Padmé is more concerned about Ahsoka than herslef because she's a good person like that. Anakin tells Jar Jar he knows what happened and, rather than the expected result of cursing his line for a thousand generations and promising bodily harm if he ever endangers Padmé again, he says he'll organize some military training for him. Rex immediately and premptively refuses to be the walking disaster area's teacher. I feel like a better resolution would have been to start treating Jar Jar like the civilian he is and keep him out of combat situation, but then again I don't see the appeal of sending teeangers into battle either so I would probably make a poor Jedi.


    Spoiler: My htoughts
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    This one wasn't as bad as its predecessor and it gave use some nice Vader-y moment but there's not much else to say about it. It's a ru-of-the mill adventure flick which mercifully limited Jar Jar and Vindi's involvement to a minimum. Still, like the last one the episode only happens because people are stupid on both sides.

    Which makes a nice contrast with the next one where people are clever on both sides.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-07-05 at 09:12 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    It occurs to me that a lot of the first season's episodes come off really rushed. Like they were originally written for longer than the twenty-two-ish minutes they aired as; and a lot of last minute cutting happened to make them fit. It's acceptable on the character-centered episodes with a relatively straightforward plot, because there's enough time for them to be focused on what actually matters, and forces ditching a lot of distractions. The more intricate/parallelized plots though....Well, look at these last two episodes: they cut a lot of corners, gloss over inconsistencies instead of dealing with them, and rely a lot on "coincidence".
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    There's very few movies I consider perfect or near-perfect. Original Star Wars is one of them. Lightning in a bottle, I tells ya.
    No disrespect to Alec Guinness but I sometimes wonder what the movie would have been like had Toshiro Mifune not turned the role of Obi-Wan down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    It occurs to me that a lot of the first season's episodes come off really rushed. Like they were originally written for longer than the twenty-two-ish minutes they aired as; and a lot of last minute cutting happened to make them fit. It's acceptable on the character-centered episodes with a relatively straightforward plot, because there's enough time for them to be focused on what actually matters, and forces ditching a lot of distractions. The more intricate/parallelized plots though....Well, look at these last two episodes: they cut a lot of corners, gloss over inconsistencies instead of dealing with them, and rely a lot on "coincidence".
    That’s very possible. Though I think there’s a lot of ‘figuring out what we’re trying to do’ at play as well which really feeds the confusion of the whole thing.
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    On the one hand, containing a plague in a post-FTL universe should be relatively easy: very few viruses can travel through space, so as long as Naboo was quickly and effectively quarantined, the danger level drops from "galaxy-wide disaster" to "planet-wide disaster." You can even theoretically bring supplies in with automated ships and droid workers, traveling in ships with the life support turned off.

    On the other hand, seeing Naboo blockaded again, this time by the Republic, would probably exacerbate social unrest on the planet itself, given that the population is still recovering from Phantom Menace. I could imagine that the fragile peace between Gungans and humans would be put to the test, not to mention the potential for disaffected citizens/Separatist agitators making the obvious connection: the Separatists must have a cure for their own disease, so if we throw ourselves on their mercy, maybe we'll be spared?

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Season 1, Episode 19: Storm over Ryloth a.k.a. Jasdoif's favourite of the season.

    Spoiler: Recap
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    Ryloth, desert planet of the twi'lek has been invaded by Separatist forces commanded by none other than Separatist Council member and leader of the Techno-Union Watt Tambor, who apparently celebrated by getting a voice-box than can speak Basic. This is an odd choice as he isn't a military leader but later in the episode he states that the Republic cannot be allowed to re-take Ryloth so the reason will probably be explained in a follow-up episode. Hopefully it's not yet another secret weapon.

    Anakin and Ahsoka are tasked with breaching the Separatist blockade with three destroyers to make way for Windu and Obi-Wan's ground attack. Considering Obi-Wan and Windu's forces are transported inside three more cruisers I'm not entirely clear why they couldn't launch a six-cruisers attack. Also, gotta wonder how Aayla feels, sitting this one out. Ahsoka poorly hides how nervous she is at the prospect of getting her first command (so this takes place before episode 6) which is not helped by Anakin reminding her that the fighter pilots under her depends on her. Also she has a R7 astromech unit so I guess R2 is well past obsolete. Or maybe these are made by Apple? The battle starts well enough as Ahsoka and her squad carve a path through the ennemy fighters in order to destroy the ennemy flagship. But just at this moment, the ennemy captain, a lanky neimoidian with bone protrusions and a weird spinning thing on his space goggles, plays his ace in the hole as four additional Separatists frigates jump out of hyperspace outnumbering the Republicans 7 to 3. Yularen and Anakin both order Ahsoka back but she ignores them, thinking she can still take the command ship down, surrounded as she is. The ennemy engages the three cruisers and Ahsoka finally gives in and head back as more and more of her main are shot down. A Vulture droid crashes on the Resolute's bridge injuring Yularen. Once Ahsoka and her two surviving fighters get back in the hangar, anakin orders a retreat. The Resolute and the Defender make it but the Redeemer goes down in flames.

    We cut back to the ennemy captain a few times so I'll cover that here. The captain, who the credits tell me is named Mar Tuuk, has a ridiculous East-Asian accent. There are alot to say about Star Wars' use of accents but this isn't the place so I'll just say that I'm not a fan and move on. He identified Anakin as his Republican counterpart by the cruiser and is proud to report to Tambor that the Jedi ran away, their ships in flame. Tambor insists he does not underestimate the Jedi so he has a droid pull out everything they have on Skywalker to study his ennemy. Okay, can this guy lead the Separatist army instead of Grievous? He cleraly knows what he's doing. He concludes that Anakin will be back sooner than later and hes his fleet get ready to battle. He also expresses that he admires Anakin as a warrior and a general and anticipates beating him with gusto.

    Anakin, meanwhile, admonishes Ahsoka for disobeying her orders. She answers that he does the same all the time (Ep.3 comes to mind) and he admits to understanding her position. Realizing how badly the loss of her men is affecting her, he tells her that it isn't her fault they fell into a trap and that that's the reality of command. yeah, this isn't a lesson that teenagers should ever learn. And no, the fact that the clones are all younger then her does not make it better, it makes it so much worse! Anakin gets distracted by a call about problems with the Defender and Ahsoka sneaks out. Obi-wan wants a status update.He expresses concern about Ahsoka's well being and tells Anakin he (Ani) needs her. Windu explains that their forces are stretched too thinly to lend Anakin more support and Anakin agrees that they need to come back immediately to save the starving twi'leks, then he orders Rex to fetch Ahsoka.. Ahsoka went to the sick bay to apologize to an unconscious Yularen about her dead squadron and is soon fetched by Rex. Anakin explains that they are going back a prospect that floors Ahsoka, terrified at the idea of losing any more soldiers and stating that they can't just take the blockade head-on. They get into an argument (Anakin sounds a lot like Kenobi) and her master grounds her orders her to her quarter until she is calm again.

    She soon hears ruckus outside and upon enquiring is told the Defender is being evacuated. She meets with Anakin and asks what's going on. He explains that he has a plan thanks to her criticisms: they can't take the blockade head-on and he endangers to omany people. He's going to fly the Defender solo with R2 and ram it into the droid command ship, this way he only endangers himself (guess R2 doesn't count) and the ship was already pretty banged-up anyway. He leaves her in charge of all the details like actually winning the battle and saving his skin. She starts to protest but he loudly puts her in charge in front of every clone presents and leave. Ahsoka explains the plan to Rex and another clone (the ship's captain? I don't know). they think it's a terrible plan and askas how she plans on taking the six remaining ennemy vessels with only one. She thinks they can angle the Resolute 90° so that the greater hull will shield the bridge and launch their fighters as the ennemy ships close in to outflank them (reminds mme of the beginning of the Thrawn Trilogy). Excuse me but no! YOU DO NOT GET TO POINT OUT THAT STAR WARS'S SPACE BATTLEs MAKE NO SENSE SHOW! These space battles are aping XVIIIth century naval battles and XXth century air battles and they don't make sense in space, you don't get to present a character as clever by having her point out the convention of your own franchise, in this case that everybody is using an arbitrary up for some reason!
    Spoiler: Fyraltari, writing this
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    Anyways the clone think this is a terribler plan and show no trust in her until she acts up and Yularen comes in to support her and defer to her judgement. Also, maybe criticizing the strategy while your fearless leader is in the middle of Leeroy Jenkinsing his way into battle is not wise timing, guys.

    Anakin's ship reaches Ryloth space and he constitues himself, his ship and his crew prisoner in exchange for food distribution to the twi'lek. Add that to the ever expanding list of Republic war crimes, please, I see Obi-Wan is teaching him well. This works for a bit until the Separatists' scans show only one life-form onboard and a pretty banged-up ship. Anakin tells them to keep the ship as he escapes in a pod. The captain orders all canon to fire but it's not enough to stop the flaming wreck. Uhh, dodge? Your spaceship can move right? The captian abandons ship in his own escape pod presumably to show up again next time. TheResolute shows up and Ahsoka's plan works flawlessly once the droids have figured out which one of them is in charge now. Yularen once again defers to her auhtority evn though he outranks her ("fighters launch, on you order commander!) and Anakin proudly watches his apprentice's work. Obi-Wan and friends arrive arrive and Kenobi decides not to ask why Anakin's fleet is reduced to one cruiser and his apprentice is leading the battle while he's an escape pod. Ahsoka opines that that's for the best.



    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    Clearly this was Ahsoka's episode. She learned how to pproperly send people to their death! Yeepee!
    Joking aside, once you are taking part in a war in a commanding position, learning to obey your superiors and to trust in your own skills are probably valuable lesson. I dunno, I've never been. Anakin's teaching methods are as unconventionnal as the rest of him but he has his padawan figured and it's nice to see both he an dObi-Wan care for her. Yularen's (not so subtle) nudge were a nice touch. That's a solid episode I just think it would have worked better if it hadn't been placed after an episode where she had already resolved these issues and if the clones that died under her had shown up in some prior episodes if only just as name-checks.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-07-05 at 09:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    ... war crimes ...
    They are only war crimes if you lose (or if your bosses hang you out to dry for political reasons).

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    They are only war crimes if you lose (or if your bosses hang you out to dry for political reasons).
    Oh yeah, I’m sure everybody will be A-OK with ennemy no longer accepting surrender or truces. I mean it’s not like anybody would want to limit the casualties of the war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Oh yeah, I’m sure everybody will be A-OK with ennemy no longer accepting surrender or truces. I mean it’s not like anybody would want to limit the casualties of the war.
    Those forces seem to be broadly Droids, Clones and Jedi - I don't know if the ultimate leader of the Republic or the Seperatists cares that much.

    Seperately if there has been peace for a thousand years it is possible that many of those niceties have either been forgotten (or never existed).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Oh yeah, I’m sure everybody will be A-OK with ennemy no longer accepting surrender or truces. I mean it’s not like anybody would want to limit the casualties of the war.
    Spoiler: Very, very vague spoiler
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    Imean, they keep accepting surrenders (and fake surrenders at that!), so...
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Add that to the ever expanding list of Republic war crimes, please, I see Obi-Wan is teaching him well.
    "Perfidy" is a fun word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The captain orders all canon to fire but it's not enough to stop the flaming wreck. Uhh, dodge? Your spaceship can move right?
    Lucrehulk battleships are glorified freighters (seriously, look at the name: they're hulks for lucre, filthy or otherwise), maneuverability is understandably sub-freighter from all the weapons and shields glued onto them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Yularen once again defers to her auhtority evn though he outranks her
    This is largely tangential, but
    Spoiler: Make it STOP
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    I figure this is the time to complain about someone deciding voluntary demilitarization was the way to explain the difference between the Old Republic and the Not-So-Old Republic. No, really: the Republic hadn't had a traditional military for the past thousand years; the Jedi somehow were able to handle everything that an independent planetary defense force couldn't for all that time....

    Suspension of disbelief aside, it does explain pretty well why the Republic keeps using the clone army: they needed an army, as the Jedi were about to be crushed at the end of Attack of the Clones and the Confederacy clearly had a lot more forces than were deployed at Geonosis. At the same time, it throws up the question of who's supposed to be handling command and control for the newfound legion of soldiers...and it doesn't really get caught well.

    Jedi are given automatic ranks in the hierarchy of both the Army and Navy because...the Republic already relied on them for matters of security beyond the scope of a single planet? They can maybe see the future? Palpatine enjoyed having the entirety of the Jedi under his nominal authority? It'd be harder to tell stories about the Jedi in the Clone Wars otherwise? Don't know....

    Even more confusing is the non-Jedi. The only clear-ish note I can find is that most officers in the Navy (especially at the top) aren't clones; but the most notable one is Yularen himself...who Palpatine bribed with offered the rank of admiral to get him out of his retirement from the Senate Intelligence Bureau. Are...all the admirals appointed on Palpatine's whim? Was there some sort of "Y'all wanna be an admiral" committee? Did they pull top-level personnel from worlds with large orbital defense fleets? Was this even seriously considered by the writers at all? Don't know....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Clearly this was Ahsoka's episode.
    The majority of the best ones are.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    The majority of the best ones are.
    Seconded. Such as my favorite, for example!
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    The fake surrenders really bug me, I'm not going to lie. That's a war crime for very good reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    The fake surrenders really bug me, I'm not going to lie. That's a war crime for very good reasons.
    Wholly agree. I have a lot of issues with the show (such as the fact that the Gungans exiled Jar Jar for clumsiness, but they never seem to find any reason to so much as tell him to stay the crap at home while a representative, despite the fact that he can, and does, do significantly more damage), but the fake surrenders top the list. Even in a kids show, that is not something that should be portrayed positively or as a viable tactic at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Even in a kids show, that is not something that should be portrayed positively or as a viable tactic at all.
    But (and I might be forgetting some instances) it nearly always works so it does seem fairly viable (it would likely also work in real life for a while I imagine).
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    With the exception of Season 5:16 I suppose - which would be my favourite episode.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis
    But (and I might be forgetting some instances) it nearly always works so it does seem fairly viable (it would likely also work in real life for a while I imagine).
    Generally speaking, the goal of labelling certain tactics as war crimes is to limit bloodshed to actual combattants. Shooting medics, civilians and surrendering soldiers is unacceptable and, in order to allow for this, passing for a medic or a civilian or prentending to surrender is unaceptable too. The moment you start disrespecting these rules, you give the ennemy incentive to shoot to kill your own people when they can't defend themselves because the ennemy can no longer trust that they genuinely cannot and will prioritize the lives of his own people over those of yours. It's a text-book example of a short-sighted move, sacrificing a general good for a localized victory.

    On another note, this episode is a good demonstration of why knowing the good guys' plan in advance doesn,'t necessarily make their victory boring: Ahsoka is framed as being unsure of her skills and the ennemy as being very competent as well as the clones openly calling the plan into question, so tension exists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The moment you start disrespecting these rules, you give the ennemy incentive to shoot to kill your own people when they can't defend themselves ...
    Which plays in nicely with the idea that the Jedi had Order 66 coming - they were completely untrustworthy so any capture/surrender/negotiation was out of the question.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Which plays in nicely with the idea that the Jedi had Order 66 coming - they were completely untrustworthy so any capture/surrender/negotiation was out of the question.
    That's not the same. Orderr 66 wasn't an act of war but generalized "police" intervention. They did not engage the Jedi in battle they executed them in a way akin to a field summary execution.

    But really my problem is not with the Jedi committing unsavory tactics. My problem is with the show framing them as clever tricks with nobody raising the implications. Especially since several characters are "committed" to peace. The use of a slave children army in the form of the clone is shown not to be a morally flawless actions, even if not treated as the horror it should be, so at least there's that.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Which plays in nicely with the idea that the Jedi had Order 66 coming - they were completely untrustworthy so any capture/surrender/negotiation was out of the question.
    Nah. Successful captures of Jedi happen a lot.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That's not the same. Orderr 66 wasn't an act of war but generalized "police" intervention.
    Spoiler: Later Episode(s)
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    The Trade Federation retains its senator in the Republic Senate, who insists that the Trade Federation has always been neutral and is not aligned with the Separatists. If the Trade Federation isn't even claiming full independence from the Republic Senate, isn't this the same general category of "police intervention" that opened Phantom Menace? (It's even the same senator in both cases....)
    Last edited by Jasdoif; 2020-06-16 at 08:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    I've watched the last episodes of season 1, expect the reviews friday and over the week-end, most likely.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Lucrehulk battleships are glorified freighters (seriously, look at the name: they're hulks for lucre, filthy or otherwise), maneuverability is understandably sub-freighter from all the weapons and shields glued onto them.
    You don't really need maneuvrabilty to just go up. They knew Anakin was alone onboard and they saw him leave. The cruiser was just a missile at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    This is largely tangential, but
    Spoiler: Make it STOP
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    I figure this is the time to complain about someone deciding voluntary demilitarization was the way to explain the difference between the Old Republic and the Not-So-Old Republic. No, really: the Republic hadn't had a traditional military for the past thousand years; the Jedi somehow were able to handle everything that an independent planetary defense force couldn't for all that time....

    Suspension of disbelief aside, it does explain pretty well why the Republic keeps using the clone army: they needed an army, as the Jedi were about to be crushed at the end of Attack of the Clones and the Confederacy clearly had a lot more forces than were deployed at Geonosis. At the same time, it throws up the question of who's supposed to be handling command and control for the newfound legion of soldiers...and it doesn't really get caught well.

    Jedi are given automatic ranks in the hierarchy of both the Army and Navy because...the Republic already relied on them for matters of security beyond the scope of a single planet? They can maybe see the future? Palpatine enjoyed having the entirety of the Jedi under his nominal authority? It'd be harder to tell stories about the Jedi in the Clone Wars otherwise? Don't know....

    Even more confusing is the non-Jedi. The only clear-ish note I can find is that most officers in the Navy (especially at the top) aren't clones; but the most notable one is Yularen himself...who Palpatine bribed with offered the rank of admiral to get him out of his retirement from the Senate Intelligence Bureau. Are...all the admirals appointed on Palpatine's whim? Was there some sort of "Y'all wanna be an admiral" committee? Did they pull top-level personnel from worlds with large orbital defense fleets? Was this even seriously considered by the writers at all? Don't know....
    Most likely is that anybody with any kind of experience as a commanding officer of a military or assimilated got instantly promoted as a colonel or higher in the Republic Grand Army. The Jedi having been the closest thing the Republic had to a standing army for centuries automatically qualified I guess. Plus Sidoius wanted as many of them killed in combat/falling because of the horrors of war/with their back turned to clone guns.

    Season 1, Episode 20: Innocents of Ryloth
    Spoiler: Recap
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    We are still on Ryloth following last espisode's conclusion. Despite Ahsoka very visibly destroying the ennemy fleet there is apparently still enough ennemy ships in local space that Anakin and his gang are staying up there leaving the ground battle to Windu and Kenobi. And by Windu and Kenobi, I mean Kenobi because as their troop transports close to the ground, Separatists anti-air canon shoot on them forcing them to fly up. Hmm, maybe land somewhere else? they can't have every single usable ground on the planet covered like this. Still, Windu sends Obi-Wan and some gunships to disable the cannons (and take the town they're in). Complicating matters is that the local tactical droid is using the local population as twi'lek shields. You know, I could have sworn it was pronounced "twy-lek".
    Flying down Obi-Wan explains to Cody and the boys that since they're here to libearate the twi'leks he wants little to no collateral damage so no explosives or such. One clone (named Waxxer) is excited to see some action and his buddy (Boil) thinks the "tailheads" should just get out of their way. Lovely. Their group lands in a orest an make their way to the edge of the town. The droids keeping watch have machine guns. Obi-Wan takes Waxxer and Boil with him and gets closer to the droids before having them throw EMP grenades at them. the 'nades fall too short but Kenobi remembers he doesn't need to touch things to catch them and give them a boost taking the droids out. You know, the last two secret Separatist weapons were designed to take out organics and leave droids intact but their first (the ion cannon) did the exact opposite. The Republic really should steal that idea.

    The tactical droid is busy talking holographically with Emir Watt Tambor (emir? God, Star Wars nobility is confusing). You know last time I joked about his newfound ability to talk Basic being due to a new voicebox but I was dead on the money since he has to fiddle with it to be understandable. He orders the droid to not give any ground to the ennemy, the droid is confident he can take them on ("I am droid I am never wrong" Dude clearly didn't watch the show so far). We see that the whole population of the town (and most droids) are concentrated into a square of sort with the anti-air cannons. The twi'leks are in chain and G-rating brutalized. The tactical droid is informed that the outer defenses aren't reporting anymore (Seriously the fight took a minute of two and none of them radio'd HQ they were under attack? If I hadn't read Catalyst I'd be starting to believe galen Erso programmed these things). The tactical droid sends two probe droids to spy on the Republicans. Obi-Wan and co have entered the town. Obi-Wan is cautious and orders Cody to send his best men on reconnaissance. He sends Boil and Waxxer who seem please to be officially the best. They start scouting and notice that the town is empty. Waxxer wonders what horrible thing happened there while Boil doesn't really care. Cody and another clone spot the droids and the prisonerThey find the droids and report to Kenobi. At the same time the probe droid shows Kenobi in real-time to the tactical droid who takes note of when they plan to attack and go to visit some local predators he's been starving in cages. He tests on one of his soldier that they can differenciate "organic meat" from... non-organic meat? Are the droids actually sillicon-based lifeforms? Either that or whoever wrote this bit of dialog isn't very good at their job.

    Boil and Waxxer come across a little twi'lek girl. She doesn't speak Basic and they don't speak whatever language she does so they're kinda stuck. Durin fthis bit they also see the recon droid pass by back to the droid HQ. They scare the girl at first until Waxxer figures out that their all-concealing armours make them look like droids to her (symbolism!) so they take off their helmet, give her food and she dubs them both nera to their confusion. Boils insists they leave her and move on because they have a job to do and Waxxer reluctantly agrees because he pities her situation. She catch up to them and sneak ups behind their back, while Waxxer is wondering what will happen to her and Boil pre-emptively refuse to daopt her, taking them by surprise (the crack scout team of whatever unit Obi-Wan's in charge of everybody!). She insits on taking them to a particular house. It's pretty dreary, having clearly been ransacked for everything of value inside and there's a big hole on the roof. They realize it must have been her home and Waxxer finds a doll which he gives to her. She proceeds to craddle the thing while sobbing. Waxxer gives her a hug and then she positively glomps Boil who reciprocates after a moment of hesitation. Meanwhile Cody points out that Boil and Waxxer haven't reported and Kenobi is worried. They ping them and decide to press on the attack. One probe droid is still spying on them so the tactical doid releases the beasts.

    Boil and Waxxer head back to camp trying to figure out a lie to explain away their misconduct but immediately stumble on the beasts, huge insect-like quadripeds. They make a hasty reatreat for the girl's house and she shows them a secret passage hidden in the floor (most likely how she avoided capture in the first place). Kenobi and Co are attacked by the creatures an dlosing badly until the Jedi mind-tricks the creature into calm, leads them to a dead end, orders the clones to shoot on an archawy to block their way out and sommersault over the rubble. at that point Boil and Waxxer come out of th eground with a twi'lek baby girl, which is probably not something you see every day in the GAR. Obi-Wan can understand her though (I wonder, do twi'lek only have one native language or did the republican chose their landing ground based on Kenobi's language skills?) and she agrees to lead them through the tunnels. Obi-Wan orders Cody to prepare a diversion while he sneaks to free the prisoners (with only Boil and waxxer along). The tactical droid is told that the gunfire ceased, he concludes that the republicans must have defeated the beast, but have most likely suffered a high degree of casualties so he readies his troops for the final assault. Cody arrives guns blazing and the tactical droid answers with tanks. Obi-Wan and Co sneak in by the place where the besat where kept. One droid is scrubbing the floor of the cages for some mysterious reason and complains that this is the single worst job in the whole stinking droid army. Even noted droidist Obi-Wan Kenobi finds him to pitiful to kill and just locks him in the cage before sneakily cutting the cuffs of the twi'lek with his great glowing falming sword of sneakiness. One of the twi'lek recognizes the little girl and she glomps him, most likely her dad. Kenobi takes control of one of the anti-air guns and shoots at the others creating a real mess. In te chaos of battle, he ends up on the ground while the tactical droid aims his gun at him claiming victory and... laughs? A laughing droid? I mean it's not any more absurd than an angry or scared droid but it feels weird. the twi'lek unarmed civilians storm the tank and rip the droid's head off. You know, with all their tech, you'd think they would have figured out a way to drive those things without having their commander pop out of the armoured casing like that.

    Victory for the righteous! windu lands near the city and strtas unloading troops and tanks. Hey, couldn't the gunships have made several trips to bring Kenobi some much needed reinforcement? Windu congratulates Kenobi and states that they need to march on the planet's capital. As the Republicans part with the locals, Boil and waxxer say their good bye to their new friend and she call them nera again. They ask Kenobi what it means. "Brother".


    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    It was an okay episode. The villain and plot in the strictest sense of the term are forgettable but it's good to have a ground-level view of the war. To see that it really, really, really suck for the civilians involved. Boil and Waxxer the tough-exterior-with-a-heart-of-gold and nice guy duo is a tried formula and it delivers. I am very impressed by the clone's voice actor ability to give each clone a slightly different voice. You can hear that it still is the same vocal cords speaking but you can still tell who's telling what by ear alone. This was already true before, but Rex and Cody have very distinctive uniforms and tend to take their helmet off while Boil and Waxxer aren't so visually distinct. The man knows his craft.

    Not much to say beyond that.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-07-05 at 09:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    You know, I could have sworn it was pronounced "twy-lek".
    I always thought this, too, until I encountered an EU novel where certain ships were nicknamed "Twees" because of their resemblance to Twi'lek heads, apparently. It threw me off for a bit until it finally clicked.

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Given that people can't even agree on "care-uh-mel" or "car-mel", for example, I don't think it's too surprising that there are different ways writers imagine a made-up word (even for a species) should be pronounced.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Given that people can't even agree on "care-uh-mel" or "car-mel", for example, I don't think it's too surprising that there are different ways writers imagine a made-up word (even for a species) should be pronounced.
    Actually yes, because the one who made up the word (Thor: "all words are made up") could just weight in. Unlike caramel which has a much longer history and so is more prone to the variations in pronounciation caused by the natural drift apart in language.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Actually yes, because the one who made up the word (Thor: "all words are made up") could just weight in.
    And yet people still say "gif" with a hard G. So I'd argue that the creator can try, and I will certainly say it that way, but it's by no means an absolute protection.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Actually yes, because the one who made up the word (Thor: "all words are made up") could just weight in. Unlike caramel which has a much longer history and so is more prone to the variations in pronounciation caused by the natural drift apart in language.
    But why would they?
    Assuming they heard about the variations in pronounciation (which they might not have) the fact that there are variations makes it sounds more like a real word - particularly as it is likely a translated word from the Twi'lek language even different Twi'leks might use different pronounciations when speaking galactic basic (and might have variations in there own language also).

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    But why would they?
    Assuming they heard about the variations in pronounciation (which they might not have) the fact that there are variations makes it sounds more like a real word - particularly as it is likely a translated word from the Twi'lek language even different Twi'leks might use different pronounciations when speaking galactic basic (and might have variations in there own language also).
    That would work if there are variations within the same work but if the same character pronounces it differently in two different works it'd look weird. And I mean, you're fixing everybody else about the word so why not fix that.

    Also, it's not a translated word, it's a loanword. If they translated the word for twi'lek in the twi'lek tongue it'd be "people".
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That would work if there are variations within the same work but if the same character pronounces it differently in two different works it'd look weird. And I mean, you're fixing everybody else about the word so why not fix that.
    I have heard the same human pronounce the same word different ways - particularly in relation to names.

    Also, it's not a translated word, it's a loanword. If they translated the word for twi'lek in the twi'lek tongue it'd be "people".
    The english word 'human' is different from the english word 'people', why assume that the twi'lek word 'twi'lek' is the same as the twi'lek word 'people'?

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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I have heard the same human pronounce the same word different ways - particularly in relation to names.
    Well, that's weird. But generally, unless your language is as weird as English, it doesn't have several accepted pronunciation for the same word (beyond regional accents anyway).


    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    The english word 'human' is different from the english word 'people', why assume that the twi'lek word 'twi'lek' is the same as the twi'lek word 'people'?
    Okay, let me try this again. A translation is when instead of using the word the other language is using for a concept you use one your language has. A loanword is when your language does not have a word for that concept so you "loan" one from another tongue that does. The words "human" and "people" are synonimous in English so I used "people" instead of "humans" because else that would have been confusing. The galactic civilisation didn't have a word for twi'lek until they met twi'leks because they didn't have a concept of twi'leks before and since that word is not Basic, it is most likely a loanword from one of the twi'lek languages. If one tried to translate the word the twi'lek used to refer to themselves in basic, they'd have to map that to a concept that already exists in Basic. What did the twi'lek mean when said twi'lek before meeting the galactic civilisation? They meant "beings like us" i.e. people.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Well, that's weird. But generally, unless your language is as weird as English, it doesn't have several accepted pronunciation for the same word (beyond regional accents anyway).
    I am thinking particularly about a few people who pronunce their own name differently depending on setting - stressing different syllables (or adding stress where they normally wouldn't use it) to make the name clearer in formal settings.


    Okay, let me try this again. A translation is when instead of using the word the other language is using for a concept you use one your language has. A loanword is when your language does not have a word for that concept so you "loan" one from another tongue that does. The words "human" and "people" are synonimous in English so I used "people" instead of "humans" because else that would have been confusing. The galactic civilisation didn't have a word for twi'lek until they met twi'leks because they didn't have a concept of twi'leks before and since that word is not Basic, it is most likely a loanword from one of the twi'lek languages. If one tried to translate the word the twi'lek used to refer to themselves in basic, they'd have to map that to a concept that already exists in Basic. What did the twi'lek mean when said twi'lek before meeting the galactic civilisation? They meant "beings like us" i.e. people.
    We have named people from mars martians despite not meeting them and them likely not existing - I see no reason to assume that the galactic civilisation didn't name the twi'leks (or get a name from some other race) prior to meeting them and learning their language.

    If we as people met an alien race they likely would have already named our star system and planet in their charts and have given us a name - we might then say the translation for that name they are using for us in english would be 'humans' or 'earthlings' or somesuch.

    Edit: To make a Star Wars example 'Wookiee' does not seem to be a shyriiwook word (and presumedly not either of their other two languages that I did not know existed).
    Last edited by dancrilis; 2020-06-20 at 10:15 AM.

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