Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

[Taevyr]

Is there a word for something being very entertaining despite horrible writing?

When its space opera/light sci-fi, I'm fairly certain we simply call it "Star Wars"

[Lord Raziere]

Is there a word for something being very entertaining despite horrible writing?

Yes.

The word is....*looks surreptitiously from side to side*

*leans in close to whisper:*

Spoiler

Show

Hollywood.

[Sapphire Guard]

To be fair, in the context of a corrupt kangaroo court they make sense. The whole trial is a sham anyway, the decision is foregone and made for political purposes, and is overseen by members of the executive and legislature rather than judiciary, it just needs to look fine for a public audience who are not themselves familiar with how a good trial would go. If Bariss hadn't been made to confess before the court in such a ridiculous manner then her confession would probably have been swept under the rug and Ahsoka executed regardless.

Think of it as a propoganda piece designed to create good headlines for Palpatine.

It doesn't do that though. The whole thing is so ridiculous that it would damage his reputation to preside over it, and it essentially outs him as corrupt and dishonest to everyone including the Jedi Council and the public. It might work that way if he wasn't directly involved but could swoop in to save her at the last minute, but not when he's the judge.

It's just what happens when writers try and do a plotline when they don't have the time, budget, or inclination to do it with any believability because they have to wrap it all up in twenty minutes, don't want to make character models, and don't really care if it makes sense. Still entertaining though.

Edit: Not many murder mysteries could get away with saying 'don't think about it' to the question of 'how did the culprit do any of this?'

[Aeson]

It's a bit late, but:

I wouldn't quite say that. It's more that Tarkin is a fascist who actually believes fascism is the right path rather than one using it as a cloak for personal ambition like Palpatine is doing. Tarkin genuinely believes that the galaxy exists in chaos and that the only way to bring about order, which he perceives as essential, is through absolute domination by the elite. He also believes that elite should be military, human, and male, in that order. In a very real sense, the Empire is actually the product of Tarkin and like minded-individuals rather than Palpatine. Palpatine wants to rule the galaxy, but he doesn't see that rulership as anything other than a vehicle for his power, he does not possess adherence to any ideology. Tarkin does, a hideous and morally bankrupt ideology, but one that exists and one that he remains true to up until his death. This is actually best displayed in Tarkin's refusal to leave the Death Star during ANH. Palpatine absolutely would have evacuated. And, notably, Palpatine eventually abandons the Imperial project (in both continuities, albeit in a slightly different way each time) in order to pursue his personal divine ascension.

I wouldn't say that Tarkin's behavior on the Death Star, in particular his refusal to consider evacuation, is really all that strong as evidence of a fanatical belief in the Empire's brand of fascism. Tarkin - unlike Palpatine - is at least theoretically answerable to a higher authority, and as the apparent commanding officer of the Death Star he has a duty to remain at his post in the presence of the enemy whereas Palpatine, as in essence a visiting political dignitary, would not (in fact, as Head of State / Government, Palpatine arguably has a duty to stay out of the way and get out of danger, not remain in place as little more than another headache for the local military leadership to deal with). Had Palpatine been on the Death Star at Yavin IV and fled at Bast's suggestion, he at worst loses a bit of face; Tarkin taking the same action under the same circumstances at best commits professional suicide and retires in disgrace but more likely ends both his career and his life in front of a firing squad even with a much more reasonable boss than Palpatine is implied to be, especially considering that the Death Star is not sufficiently damaged to justify the evacuation of its officers and crew at any point prior to its catastrophic destruction and the attacking Rebel force does not appear to be capable of inflicting any amount of damage to the Death Star between trivially insignificant and cataclysmic.

Tarkin's apparent confidence at Yavin IV may have been misplaced and excessive, but his response to Bast's suggestion of preparing his personal escape ship really isn't that unreasonable and the suggestion itself could easily be a thinly-veiled insult, a crude attempt to set Tarkin up for a fall, or a crass attempt by Bast to cover his backside while setting up his own escape route. The only way Tarkin's getting through the Battle of Yavin with his career and his life intact is by winning without disgracing himself, and he's not going to do that by sitting out the battle in the safety of his personal getaway ship.

[Sapphire Guard]

Tarkin doesn't know he's in a movie where the million to one shot is guaranteed to come up.

[Peelee]

Tarkin doesn't know he's in a movie where the million to one shot is guaranteed to come up.

Agreed. He's in a fortress being attacked by flies, why should he flee? The Death Star has shields, and turbolasers, and a full TIE complement, and a space wizard flying with the TIE fighters to boot. His not wanting to leave is not a manifesto as to his belief in the infallibility of the Empire. It's not even plain ol' regular hubris. It's simply assuming that they have the situation under control.

[Keltest]

Agreed. He's in a fortress being attacked by flies, why should he flee? The Death Star has shields, and turbolasers, and a full TIE complement, and a space wizard flying with the TIE fighters to boot. His not wanting to leave is not a manifesto as to his belief in the infallibility of the Empire. It's not even plain ol' regular hubris. It's simply assuming that they have the situation under control.

I dunno, I think there is a certain amount of hubris there, as he was just informed that these flies do theoretically have the capability of destroying the fortress. Not necessarily misplaced hubris, but hubris nonetheless.

[Peelee]

I dunno, I think there is a certain amount of hubris there, as he was just informed that these flies do theoretically have the capability of destroying the fortress. Not necessarily misplaced hubris, but hubris nonetheless.

He was told "there is a danger," which is pretty vague, and is immediately asked to fully evacuate. This is after the majority of the rebel ships have been destroyed, with the Death Star's full defenses still firing on all cylinders.

If there's hubris it's overshadowed by being reasonable.

[pendell]

He was told "there is a danger," which is pretty vague, and is immediately asked to fully evacuate. This is after the majority of the rebel ships have been destroyed, with the Death Star's full defenses still firing on all cylinders.

If there's hubris it's overshadowed by being reasonable.

*Nod*

Remember just how unlikely that danger was to pose any threat to the Death Star. We'd already heard, in the Rebel briefing, that hitting the exhaust port "was impossible, even for a computer".

And that's if the rebel fighters were taking the shot without any interference.

As it is, they're having to do it in the face of flak , and in the face of a TIE fighter defense being led by the best starfighter pilot in the galaxy.

Who had already destroyed two waves of attacking fighters all by himself.

What's more, the rebel fighters were all but annihilated at this point. We are told at the outset of the battle that there are "at least 30" but there's only about 4 flying back to Yavin after its all over.

Put those facts into a computer to calculate odds, the answer is that Tarkin is more likely to kill himself by tripping over his feet and falling down a turbolift shaft than this Rebel attack has of posing any serious threat to the station.

So it isn't arrogance or overconfidence on Tarkin's part. It's a cool calculation of the odds -- odds on which any military commander would happily stake his life. If you aren't prepared to run odds significantly worse than this, you've got no business fighting battles.

What Tarkin left out of his calculation was the Force overriding the odds and allowing the one-in-a-million shot to hit home. But in a world that isn't governed by plot, it's better to side with the people who have 999,999 chances out of a million.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

What Tarkin left out of his calculation was the Force overriding the odds and allowing the one-in-a-million shot to hit home.

Not even that. Luke was about to die before he even got the shot off. His survival required a completely-unforseen (to Luke and the Empire, at least) Millennium Falcon to come out of seemingly nowhere to blast the attackers off him, and then for Vader's surviving wingman to panic and crash into Vader's ship.

Luke got incredibly lucky there.