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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Hey forgot to put that in the review but: Despite all this ruckuss, the Senate did not update security well enough to stop fricking Grievous from capturing Palpatine. No wonder he moved out to the Jedi Temple.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    ... what the hell did his kids ever do to him?
    I have no idea, but nothing deserving what he did to that movie.

    I actually think they could have pulled off a movie series, if they did each season/book as it's own trilogy, effectively making it a 9-part movie series. That way everything could be less rushed, the character growth and world building could still come through, they could develop the primary and secondary villains of each book, and if done by anyone competent (by that point Shyamalan was known to be "absolutely not 'the next Spielberg' as predicted in 1997") could have been a cash cow for them.

    When it took an entire formation of Earth benders to slowly move a rock the size of a large housecat, I openly laughed. That whole scene was patently ridiculous.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-06-22 at 06:32 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    When it took an entire formation of Earth benders to slowly move a rock the size of a large housecat, I openly laughed. That whole scene was patently ridiculous.
    I had forgotten about that largely because I think I went temporarally catatonic after:
    Earthbenders!
    ...
    There is earth right beneath your feet.
    I will admit that I had forgotten the actual text and had replaced it with "Earthbenders, your in a quarry! There are rocks all around you!" I am not sure which is worse.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I had forgotten about that largely because I think I went temporarally catatonic after:


    I will admit that I had forgotten the actual text and had replaced it with "Earthbenders, your in a quarry! There are rocks all around you!" I am not sure which is worse.
    I think making you catatonic was the intent, so you wouldn't notice thr even dumber response, which was basically "....so?"
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    I'm enjoying the reviews as well. My preference is for analysis and feelings, but Clone Wars doesn't really lend itself to that.

    As per this thread's recommendation, I watched Avatar and it was excellent. Easily the best TV series I've watched in quite a while. I was surprised to see Filoni's name pop up in the credits; turns out he did a lot of work on the first season. Mark Hamill also voices a character.

    What the Avatar movie did to the series is unforgivable. It stomps the source material into mulch. I saw it before I watched the series several years ago; I can only imagine the horror of watching it after enjoying the series and expecting something good. Apparently, there's a live action series in the works, which can hardly be worse.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar Jarak View Post
    I'm enjoying the reviews as well. My preference is for analysis and feelings, but Clone Wars doesn't really lend itself to that.

    As per this thread's recommendation, I watched Avatar and it was excellent. Easily the best TV series I've watched in quite a while. I was surprised to see Filoni's name pop up in the credits; turns out he did a lot of work on the first season. Mark Hamill also voices a character.

    What the Avatar movie did to the series is unforgivable. It stomps the source material into mulch. I saw it before I watched the series several years ago; I can only imagine the horror of watching it after enjoying the series and expecting something good. Apparently, there's a live action series in the works, which can hardly be worse.
    They could film some cows grazing in a field as the entire live action series and it wouldn't be worse, despite having nothing to do with the source material. Also, i totally recognized Mark Hamill, but not for a good reason - he did nearly the exact same voice as he did in Castle in the Sky. Didn't matter, still rocked it. It's a good voice.

    Also, as for Clone Wars, Fyraltari is closing in on my favorite episode, so yay! Only ten to go through before hitting it.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-06-22 at 08:22 PM. Reason: Thought it was ep. 13, it's 11. Fixed a number.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    The live-action Avatar: The Last Airbender was terrible, no doubt, and I have little faith a sequel would have been much better, but after watching "The Magicians", I will admit to being a bit curious to see Summer Bishil playing Azula.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    So I’m gonna go ahead and not watch that movie. Besides I have a whole separate list of movies I need to watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar Jarak View Post
    I'm enjoying the reviews as well. My preference is for analysis and feelings, but Clone Wars doesn't really lend itself to that.
    Thank you!
    I’ll try to keep that in mind.
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    So I’m gonna go ahead and not watch that movie.
    This is my sad face. Get down here in the dumpster with the rest of us!

    For reals, though. I'm 90% sure they just used the first take on, quite literally, every single scene in the movie. It's like watching a high school play that was inexplicably given a hundred million dollar budget.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-06-23 at 09:07 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    So, here are my thoughts so far.

    Spoiler: the show in general
    Show
    Late season 1 is clearly better than early season 1 but it still feels very disjointed. I generally enjoy anchronistic order story telling but it doesn't really work here. See, in Kill Bill for examples it's always obvious where each scene falls on the timeline but here it is not and that just makes it feel like the story is happening in a timeless status quo. By the way, the Clone War is supposed to have lasted only two and a half years so it's a wonder they manage to jam all of that in it. I hope the show becomes less "villain of week"-y and develop larger stories. There are hints of the Republic's slow turn into the Empire and Anakin's fall, these should really become more prominent.

    The episodes are mostly focused on action which wouldn't be too bad if it wasn't completely impossible for 4/5 of the charcaters to actually die in this. Speaking of dying I appreciate their effort to give clones some sliver of personality before killing them off. There's a real inconstistency about how dangerous given situations are too. Sometimes a Jedi can take down twenty droids while making jokes, and sometimes two Jedi and three clones flee when confronted by twelve droids.

    I feel like the Force has been seriously underutilized this season. It's Star Wars most unique concept and at the very core of its identity. While Star wars stories don't necesserarily have to focus on the Force, the fact that this is leading to the fall of the Jedi Order means this show really should. I want to hear the Jedi talk about their relationship with th eForce and the dark Side, I want to know how the war affects their view of it and of their morals. I mean one of the main characters is supposed to be learning how to Jedi and she hasn't asked a single Force-realted question this entire season! It's not psychic powers, it's your mystical religion, don't treat it like a tool!

    I did enjoy the effort of framing the war into the larger galactic picture. How it affects the people who aren't dashing heroes and vile villains. And underlying that war is bad, yo. More of that please.
    The show is a bit too black-and-white for my liking too. There's a sentence in the opening of Revenge of the Sith, the second sentence in the crawl, even) that I feel was a wasted avenue in the prequels. "There are heroes on both sides". So far, every Separatist has been a cackling villain and every Republican a selfless hero. With the exception of Slicks and Argaius who both seem to have some amout of genuine appreciation for their former allies (Slicks more than Argaius, obviously). The separatists, when you think about it, despite being a fake threat led by corrupt oligarchs and space-satanists, are supposed to be fighting for an Outer Rim ignored and exploited by the human-dominated Central Government. Much like the Rebel Alliance, the heroiest heroes this franchise has to offer. There should even be some overlap between the two factions. Disney toyed with the idea in Rebels and with the character of Cassian Andor (who was fighting the Empire since he was six) but never fully acknowledged it so I hope this show at least hints towards it. Inversely, It'd be good to have a Republican characters commit some atrocities, out of anti-non-human prejudice if possible. I mean I know Tarkin shows up, so there's good hopes for that.


    Spoiler: Our protagonists
    Show
    So the main trio is Ashoka, Anakin and Obi-Wan even if some episodes don't have them (or barely) in it (which is a good thing by th eway, let's give some love to some minor characters). But the mainest character is Anakin. He is Obi-Wan's former apprentice, Ahsoka's master, Padmé's husband and the theoretical main charcater of the prequels. His dynamic with Obi-Wan was alright I guess with the exception of the one episode they seem friendly though we're still a bit far from "You were my brother!" His relationship with Ahsoka is good but is mostly potential for now. By all mean he should be a pretty terrible teacher of the Jedi ways. They leaned on that in Jasdoif's favourite episode so far, with his bit "of hypocrisy regarding obeying orders. I hope they do more of that. His relationship with Padmé is better than in the Prequels. The opposite would be shocking. But there isn't much to go on yet. they need to emphasize the strain that secrecy is on them (and the war obviously).

    There's not much to say about Obi-Wan, of our three protagonist he's the one not allowed any character development since he is identical in RotS and AotC. He seems even snarkier than I remember though. Still there's some untapped potential here. What's his relationship with Ahsoka? How aware is he of Anakin's marriage? Of his descent into darkness? He can do more than just be Mr. Perfect Jedi.

    Let's talk Ahsoka. I like her much more than I did back when I thought she epitomized everything wrong with the pilot movie. But then again, I like to think 24-year old Fyraltari is somewhat more mature and postive a person than 13-year-old Fyraltari. Somewhat. As the OC she has much more freedom to evolve than any of her counterparts. I mean, they could have her fall to the dark Side! They could have her die! They didn't, but they could. And besides, **** has to go down for her not to be in RoS. The obvious direction for her to go is to start questionning the Jedi teaching seeing as she is Anakin's Padawan and, well, leading a war is about as far as "A Jedi only uses the Force in defense. Never to attack" as one can be. I'm optimistic about her. I like that they made her be buddy buddy with Plo Koon. I hope we see more of that.

    Padmé is there I guess? Like Obi she can't change because her AotC personnality is still there by RotS. Besides her relationship for Anakin, I find her most natural role is in th political Arena, she needs to be the one charcater (plus y'know Organa and Mothma) who notices what the republic is turnign into and tries to stop it. I mean, it is in character for her to try to make peace with the Separatists but it's not gonna happen. Oh and what does she think of Anakin's relationship with Palpatine? There's material there.

    The Clones: giving them unique personnalities is a great idea. I want to see more of Rex and Cody. What are there plans for when the war is over? Do they even think that far in the future? And of course, their conflicting loyalties between the government of the Republic, the people of th eRepublic and the Jedi. More of that, pretty please. And of course the whole slave-army bred to die thing.

    Yoda. Was barely there except for that godawful first episode. Please give him something to do. But not on the front lines. As the Jedi Grandmaster he should be co-ordinating the war effort on the galactic scale and investigating Sith Plots.

    Windu. Prequel Windu was a waste of a perfectly functionning Sam Jackson. He had one cool fight scene and that was basically it. His episode there was a lot of that too. They should play up his distrust of Skywalker. Make him the one guy Anakin clashes with the most. That way Yoda gets to be all wise and stuff and Obi-Wan all friendly. Besides Windu is the first Jedi Anakin kills so...

    Yularen. Yularen being here is an interesting choice. His big moment so far was trusting in Ahsoka. But Yularen will become the Imperial spymaster and will one day sit at a table on the Death Star listening as he hears the Senate has been disolved (probably literally) and, you know, not be outraged years after his Jedi buddies have been declared traitors. since he doesn't seem to harbour any anti-non-human prejudice, so I guess he is a Befehl sind Befehl kind of guy. I hope we get to see how far that mindset goes with him carrying out some questionnable orders unquestionnably. And see how his buddy Ahsoka reacts to that.



    Spoiler: Our villains
    Show
    Sidious didn't do much this season, did he? Obviously he can't go rounf leading battles and dueling Jedi to the death (he's got people for that) but it's time to showcase his manipulating skills. He's on a tight rope managing both the Separatists (who are led by his Sith Apprentice so he can't really trust them) and the Republic (where he's surrounded by filfthy Jedi), and, on top of that, he has to corrupt Anakin and subvert the values of the Republic. Show us how he turns Anakin against the Jedi, how he outmaneuvers Padmé and how he hides form Yoda.

    Dooku. Because of his boss running two sides, Dooku is the most prominent villain and he was very underutilized in the Prequels so it's his time to shine. Being locke-up with Ani and Obi feels like it should have been more than what it ended up being, though. Why did he left the Order? What does he thinks of his Master? What did he think Sidious endgame was like (besides obviously not having his head chopped off). Why aren't his eyes yellow? The show manages to give him Sir Christopher Lee's air of dignity, which is really goog, but I'd like to see him more active. There's also a potential point of contention with Sidious in that he probably sees Ventress as a future Sith Lord when he's taken his Master's place (and he's not getting any younger) while Sidious plans for Anakin to take Dooku's place once he's done with him.

    Grievous, much like Dooku he needs to have his character explored more (also he is in dire need of a win). Show him cunning, show him dangerous and tell us why he does what he does. His own episode had some hints but I'm hoping for more. What does he thinks of Dooku? Of Sidious? Does he even care what they want? Does he see Ventress as a threat to his position? Why doesn't his respirator fix his coughing fits?

    Ventress is kinda evil Ahsoka, narratively speaking. As an OC she is free to evolve. And most likely die before RotS. Why does she want to be a Sith? What is her realtion to her Master? And to her Master's Master? Sidious seems to see her with contempt despite the fact that with a grand total of 1 win, she is the most competent Separatist so far. Maybe because of the whole Apprentice situation?

    Nute Gunray: please no.

    Watt Tambor: Either rework him or give him as little screen time as possible when you inevitably spring him out of custody. Wait. That should totally have been the finale! Picture last episode unchanged saved for Tambor in Ziro's role, Bane working for Dooku and anakin and him not knowing each other yet. That would have made the finale a four-parter and ending on the introduction of a new badass underling of Dooku. Also no Ziro which would have been a considerable plus. Which brings me to my next item.

    Ziro: please no.

    Cad Bane: There's postential. Have him work for Dooku and have plans tha tmake sense and they're golden.

    In theory I'm all for Separatist one shot villains but basically every single one of them made melong for Grievous. This is not a compliment for Grievous's character. Pleas make some that are actually good next times. I'm still not over how wasted an opportunity Tambor was. He had two defining traits: Separatist leader and tech guy. Why did they make him Gunray 2?


    Also the animation is pretty good, the music is, as always*, excellent. The voice acting is great especially the Lee impersonation and the Clones having distinct but close "voices".

    The little "quotes" at the beginning of each episode are really hit-and-miss though. Mostly miss. I don't know if attributing them to in-universe sources (such as Jedi texts) would make them better or worse. Using real world quote (as in A fistful of Dynamite opening on a Mao quote) would probably be for the worse, though.

    So yeah, that wa smy thoughts so far. Now, off to start season 2!

    *That really is the one guarantee with Star Wars, isn't it? No matter how bad it gets, the writing, the acting, you know that the music will be nice.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-06-24 at 03:21 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Spoiler: the show in general
    Show
    Late season 1 is clearly better than early season 1 but it still feels very disjointed. I generally enjoy anchronistic order story telling but it doesn't really work here. See, in Kill Bill for examples it's always obvious where each scene falls on the timeline but here it is not and that just makes it feel like the story is happening in a timeless status quo. By the way, the Clone War is supposed to have lasted only two and a half years so it's a wonder they manage to jam all of that in it. I hope the show becomes less "villain of week"-y and develop larger stories. There are hints of the Republic's slow turn into the Empire and Anakin's fall, these should really become more prominent.

    The episodes are mostly focused on action which wouldn't be too bad if it wasn't completely impossible for 4/5 of the charcaters to actually die in this. Speaking of dying I appreciate their effort to give clones some sliver of personality before killing them off. There's a real inconstistency about how dangerous given situations are too. Sometimes a Jedi can take down twenty droids while making jokes, and sometimes two Jedi and three clones flee when confronted by twelve droids.

    I feel like the Force has been seriously underutilized this season. It's Star Wars most unique concept and at the very core of its identity. While Star wars stories don't necesserarily have to focus on the Force, the fact that this is leading to the fall of the Jedi Order means this show really should. I want to hear the Jedi talk about their relationship with th eForce and the dark Side, I want to know how the war affects their view of it and of their morals. I mean one of the main characters is supposed to be learning how to Jedi and she hasn't asked a single Force-realted question this entire season! It's not psychic powers, it's your mystical religion, don't treat it like a tool!

    I did enjoy the effort of framing the war into the larger galactic picture. How it affects the people who aren't dashing heroes and vile villains. And underlying that war is bad, yo. More of that please.
    The show is a bit too black-and-white for my liking too. There's a sentence in the opening of Revenge of the Sith, the second sentence in the crawl, even) that I feel was a wasted avenue in the prequels. "There are heroes on both sides". So far, every Separatist has been a cackling villain and every Republican a selfless hero. With the exception of Slicks and Argaius who both seem to have some amout of genuine appreciation for their former allies (Slicks more than Argaius, obviously). The separatists, when you think about it, despite being a fake threat led by corrupt oligarchs and space-satanists, are supposed to be fighting for an Outer Rim ignored and exploited by the human-dominated Central Government. Much like the Rebel Alliance, the heroiest heroes this franchise has to offer. There should even be some overlap between the two factions. Disney toyed with the idea in Rebels and with the character of Cassian Andor (who was fighting the Empire since he was six) but never fully acknowledged it so I hope this show at least hints towards it. Inversely, It'd be good to have a Republican characters commit some atrocities, out of anti-non-human prejudice if possible. I mean I know Tarkin shows up, so there's good hopes for that.


    Spoiler: Our protagonists
    Show
    So the main trio is Ashoka, Anakin and Obi-Wan even if some episodes don't have them (or barely) in it (which is a good thing by th eway, let's give some love to some minor characters). But the mainest character is Anakin. He is Obi-Wan's former apprentice, Ahsoka's master, Padmé's husband and the theoretical main charcater of the prequels. His dynamic with Obi-Wan was alright I guess with the exception of the one episode they seem friendly though we're still a bit far from "You were my brother!" His relationship with Ahsoka is good but is mostly potential for now. By all mean he should be a pretty terrible teacher of the Jedi ways. They leaned on that in Jasdoif's favourite episode so far, with his bit "of hypocrisy regarding obeying orders. I hope they do more of that. His relationship with Padmé is better than in the Prequels. The opposite would be shocking. But there isn't much to go on yet. they need to emphasize the strain that secrecy is on them (and the war obviously).

    There's not much to say about Obi-Wan, of our three protagonist he's the one not allowed any character development since he is identical in RotS and AotC. He seems even snarkier than I remember though. Still there's some untapped potential here. What's his relationship with Ahsoka? How aware is he of Anakin's marriage? Of his descent into darkness? He can do more than just be Mr. Perfect Jedi.

    Let's talk Ahsoka. I like her much more than I did back when I thought she epitomized everything wrong with the pilot movie. But then again, I like to think 24-year old Fyraltari is somewhat more mature and postive a person than 13-year-old Fyraltari. Somewhat. As the OC she has much more freedom to evolve than any of her counterparts. I mean, they could have her fall to the dark Side! They could have her die! They didn't, but they could. And besides, **** has to go down for her not to be in RoS. The obvious direction for her to go is to start questionning the Jedi teaching seeing as she is Anakin's Padawan and, well, leading a war is about as far as "A Jedi only uses the Force in defense. Never to attack" as one can be. I'm optimistic about her. I like that they made her be buddy buddy with Plo Koon. I hope we see more of that.

    Padmé is there I guess? Like Obi she can't change because her AotC personnality is still there by RotS. Besides her relationship for Anakin, I find her most natural role is in th political Arena, she needs to be the one charcater (plus y'know Organa and Mothma) who notices what the republic is turnign into and tries to stop it. I mean, it is in character for her to try to make peace with the Separatists but it's not gonna happen. Oh and what does she think of Anakin's relationship with Palpatine? There's material there.

    The Clones: giving them unique personnalities is a great idea. I want to see more of Rex and Cody. What are there plans for when the war is over? Do they even think that far in the future? And of course, their conflicting loyalties between the government of the Republic, the people of th eRepublic and the Jedi. More of that, pretty please. And of course the whole slave-army bred to die thing.

    Yoda. Was barely there except for that godawful first episode. Please give him something to do. But not on the front lines. As the Jedi Grandmaster he should be co-ordinating the war effort on the galactic scale and investigating Sith Plots.

    Windu. Prequel Windu was a waste of a perfectly functionning Sam Jackson. He had one cool fight scene and that was basically it. His episode there was a lot of that too. They should play up his distrust of Skywalker. Make him the one guy Anakin clashes with the most. That way Yoda gets to be all wise and stuff and Obi-Wan all friendly. Besides Windu is the first Jedi Anakin kills so...

    Yularen. Yularen being here is an interesting choice. His big moment so far was trusting in Ahsoka. But Yularen will become the Imperial spymaster and will one day sit at a table on the Death Star listening as he hears the Senate has been disolved (probably literally) and, you know, not be outraged years after his Jedi buddies have been declared traitors. since he doesn't seem to harbour any anti-non-human prejudice, so I guess he is a Befehl sind Befehl kind of guy. I hope we get to see how far that mindset goes with him carrying out some questionnable orders unquestionnably. And see how his buddy Ahsoka reacts to that.



    Spoiler: Our villains
    Show
    Sidious didn't do much this season, did he? Obviously he can't go rounf leading battles and dueling Jedi to the death (he's got people for that) but it's time to showcase his manipulating skills. He's on a tight rope managing both the Separatists (who are led by his Sith Apprentice so he can't really trust them) and the Republic (where he's surrounded by filfthy Jedi), and, on top of that, he has to corrupt Anakin and subvert the values of the Republic. Show us how he turns Anakin against the Jedi, how he outmaneuvers Padmé and how he hides form Yoda.

    Dooku. Because of his boss running two sides, Dooku is the most prominent villain and he was very underutilized in the Prequels so it's his time to shine. Being locke-up with Ani and Obi feels like it should have been more than what it ended up being, though. Why did he left the Order? What does he thinks of his Master? What did he think Sidious endgame was like (besides obviously not having his head chopped off). Why aren't his eyes yellow? The show manages to give him Sir Christopher Lee's air of dignity, which is really goog, but I'd like to see him more active. There's also a potential point of contention with Sidious in that he probably sees Ventress as a future Sith Lord when he's taken his Master's place (and he's not getting any younger) while Sidious plans for Anakin to take Dooku's place once he's done with him.

    Grievous, much like Dooku he needs to have his character explored more (also he is in dire need of a win). Show him cunning, show him dangerous and tell us why he does what he does. His own episode had some hints but I'm hoping for more. What does he thinks of Dooku? Of Sidious? Does he even care what they want? Does he see Ventress as a threat to his position? Why doesn't his respirator fix his coughing fits?

    Ventress is kinda evil Ahsoka, narratively speaking. As an OC she is free to evolve. And most likely die before RotS. Why does she want to be a Sith? What is her realtion to her Master? And to her Master's Master? Sidious seems to see her with contempt despite the fact that with a grand total of 1 win, she is the most competent Separatist so far. Maybe because of the whole Apprentice situation?

    Nute Gunray: please no.

    Watt Tambor: Either rework him or give him as little screen time as possible when you inevitably spring him out of custody. Wait. That should totally have been the finale! Picture last episode unchanged saved for Tambor in Ziro's role, Bane working for Dooku and anakin and him not knowing each other yet. That would have made the finale a four-parter and ending on the introduction of a new badass underling of Dooku. Also no Ziro which would have been a considerable plus. Which brings me to my next item.

    Ziro: please no.

    Cad Bane: There's postential. Have him work for Dooku and have plans tha tmake sense and they're golden.

    In theory I'm all for Separatist one shot villains but basically every single one of them made melong for Grievous. This is not a compliment for Grievous's character. Pleas make some that are actually good next times. I'm still not over how wasted an opportunity Tambor was. He had two defining traits: Separatist leader and tech guy. Why did they make him Gunray 2?
    Nearly everything you said you want to see does happen later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Nearly everything you said you want to see does happen later.
    Well, not everything.
    Spoiler: Not a spoiler so much as a source of depression and despondency
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    Ziro comes back, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Well, not everything.
    Spoiler: Not a spoiler so much as a source of depression and despondency
    Show
    Ziro comes back, after all.
    I said "nearly" and "want to see" for a reason....
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Seeing him die gives a nice sense of closure to...whatever he was supposed to be, though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Nearly everything you said you want to see does happen later.
    Yay!
    I said "nearly" and "want to see" for a reason....
    Nay!
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Ventress is kinda evil Ahsoka, narratively speaking. As an OC she is free to evolve.
    Asajj Ventress isn't actually an original character for the 2008 Clone Wars movie and follow-on TV series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Asajj Ventress isn't actually an original character for the 2008 Clone Wars movie and follow-on TV series.
    Yes I know, she's from the 2003 series. In which she had no characterization and died. For all intents and purposes, she's an OC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Yes I know, she's from the 2003 series. In which she had no characterization and died. For all intents and purposes, she's an OC.
    The important part here is that she's not tied to any particular fate, correct? So they can do whatever, and there can be actual stakes and surprise with how things go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    The important part here is that she's not tied to any particular fate, correct? So they can do whatever, and there can be actual stakes and surprise with how things go.
    Precisely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Yes I know, she's from the 2003 series. In which she had no characterization and died.
    She fell out of sight. However, she didn't die then (plenty of comics set after that point in the series, used her).

    Most of Ventress's characterisation in Legends came from books and comics, rather than that series.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    She fell out of sight. However, she didn't die then (plenty of comics set after that point in the series, used her).

    Most of Ventress's characterisation in Legends came from books and comics, rather than that series.
    As far as the show was concerned she died. Just like Sidious and Boba Fett died in RotJ. That other properties within the franchise (including this very one as I am pretty sure it was originally intended to be in-continuity) brought her back doesn't change that.

    Season 2, Episode 1: Holocron Heist

    Spoiler: Recap
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    We open with Plo Koon leading a rescue mission as Ahsoka, Anakin and Obi-Wan are losing a battle on planet Felicia. Plo Koon powers through the Separatists fleet and brings a few gunships (these are space-worthy apparently) to Anakin and Obi-Wan's position. They're being flooded by droids and I kinda have to wonder what they're fighting for exactly, trees? Ahsoka and a group are missing as she was leading a patrol (with tanks, I might say) and she's got her own ennemy force on the run so she refuses to disengage (feels faimiliar...) despite her superiors explaining that the droids are only regrouping with their main force and that she can't take them. This forces the gunships to land in front of her, cutting her path to make them comply and witness her tanks being blown up as they leave. this whole battle feels weird, relally. They report back to the council as she is accused of insubordination. Yoda and Windu decides that a period of guard duty at the temple will be good for her. "How long? -Longer, now." Specifically she is assigned to Madame Jocasta Nu, head librarian of the Order. as she takes her on a tour of [S]Dublin Trinity College[/S ]the Jedi Archives. She explains to the Padawan that the most important secrets of the Jedi are kept into the Holocron vault wherein only memberes of the council are allowed, and so even she herself isn't. You know one who'd think that being Head Librarian of a monastic order would make you a member of the COuncil of said order but whatever Anakin and Obi-Wan start adjsting their strategy for the sector now that they've lost Felicia, but are interrupted by Yoda who has had a visoin of the future. Somebody is going to break into the Temple. The vision doesn't say who, when or what for, though, which make this vision both incredibly specific and utterly vague. This universe makes much more sense if you headcannon that the Force is a huge troll. Anakin and Obi-Wan figure the intruder will be after their war plans and codes and preapre to defend with that in mind.

    Meanwhile Cad Bane is on the holophone with darth Sidoius. This seems to take place before the finale of season 1, because **** me, hence why he is on Coruscant. Sidious wants him to go steal a Jedi Holocron from the Temple. Bane initially refuses as the Temple is full of traps but Sidious can give him the complete plans of the place. Bane then agrees in exchange for three times his ususal fee (does he often work for Sidious or what?) and a warship. Bane then places an explosive inside his tech/butler droid (he pretends to be doing a check-up, claiming that the droid has had memorys lapses, which he of course doesn't remember) named Todo-somenumber I forgot who is just adorable. Bane then meets with another boutny hunter. He shows her a picture of a rodian Jedi named Bola Ropal who is their target after this job (Sidious and him probably discussed it off-screen). She's hesitant to take on the Jedi Temple but bane has the plans (and already identified a weakness within the Force fiel outside) and the dead body of a Jedi. She's of the same species as Zam wesell form AotC and so can change shapes to match the corpse (her clothes also hange and look like they're holographic. Is she actually naked?). Good that the existence of freaking changelings in SW is being put to use I gotta say. I do wonder how that perticular Jedi died without the ORder knowing about it and how sge manages to ape his presence in the Forcen though. The plan is that she will go in disguised and use a computer to deactivate the security and guide bane and Todo through the ventilation system because of course the Jedi Temple has an unnecessarily huge one.

    The shapeshifter reaches the library and has to deal with a bored Ahsoka insistitng she can help with whatever Jedi business "he" has to make. After shoing her out, she helps Bane and Todo get in and eactivates the security measures (a bunch of laser). However Anakin And Obi-Wan spot that (plus Yoda has another vision telling him the break-in has begun; huge troll I tells ya!) and work out that the intruders are near the East Tower, very near the holocron vault. Obi-wan discrads the idea that they would want to steal a Holocron as one need to be a Jedi to open them. Err, you're fighting a war against a former Jedi rembemr? How is your working hypothesis not that Dooku is behind this attack? However they think that the intruder may be trying to pass through the valut to their comm tower to steal their encryption protocols. The shapechanger is getting excited talking to Bane through her earpiece and Madame Jocasta arrives to tell "him" that this is a library, quiet pleas! that the Temple has just been put on high alert and "he" should get moving. The shapechanger sucker-punches the old lady (way to go Jedi reflexes!) and steal her appearance. Meanwhile Bane has reached the last door to the Vault and does some techy thing to the lock while he orders his droid to cut open a hole in the wall (feels like this should be the opposite). Anakin and Obi-Wan figure that the intruders managing to evade them must mean they have somebody inside and order Ahsoka to be on the look-out for fake Jedi.

    Ahsoka discovers that Nu isn't Nu and a lightsaber fight ensues. The chnageling manages to hold her ground surprisingly long but Ahsoka beats her and forces her to confess what's going on. Bane, having lost contact with his ally decides to throw subtetly out of the window and orders Todo to go through the hole he just made to the comm center (over his objection that the place must be crawling with Jedi) and uses a bomb on the door. He hides as Anakin and Obi-Wan get in, the smoke dissimulatin th e open door, they spot the hole Todo went through and pursue as baen enters the valut and takes an Holocron. Todo reaches the comm center and meets Yoda, Windu, Secura and Fisto. He tries to awkwardly make up a story but Bane remotely triggers the bomb. It's one of those polite bombs that beep for a few dozen secodns before exploding so you can understadn what's going on. windu force pushes him in the vent right on Obi-Wan and Anakin who force-push him farther away. and he explodes. Ahsoka radios in and explains what happened. they rush to to the vault and see that one Holocron is missing. tHey wonder what Bane could ever want for one and the captured bounty hunter volunteers the info (seriously they don't even ask her in exchange for leniency at ther trial or something) that Bane's next target is Master Bola Ropal. Windu and Yoda explain that Ropal is the guardian of a special kyber crystal which details the location of some Fore-sensitive children, the future of the Order. Oh and he is a the moment unreachable as he is on the front lines. Why is a guy witht that kind of responsability on the fornt lines, exactly? Why is that crystal not stroed in your mibrabry actually? Hell why aren't those children in the Temple as younglings already even? Anyway as they are all too busy talking nobody notice Bane wearign a Jedi robe (wher'd he even find that?) leaving the Temple by the Front door. jedi security sucks, man.



    Spoiler: My thoughts
    Show
    tHis was a fun opener for the season. w=It certainly introduces Bane better than last time as he's hown to be competent and, through his relationship with Todo, a douchebag. More on bane's character next time (I've already seen next episode) but I4ll say that his jet-boots are very cool.
    This summary is pretty short because this is mostly an action piece and the battle at the beginning doesn't have much to do with the rest.
    Anakin and Obi-wan didn't do much and I feel the episode would have been served better if Ahsoka was the main Jedi after Bane (it's not like the absence of the others would have been hard to explain what with the war and all). Also Ahsoka's behaviour at teh beginning of the episode and the lessons she learns to see the big picture is a retread of the first Ryloth Episode. We've elaready been over that, should have found another reason for her to be on guard duty. (Maybe it's an obligatory thing for every Padawan or something).
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    Where was I? Oh, right.

    Season 2, Episode 2: Cargo of Doom

    Spoiler: Recap
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    Cad Bane has captured Master Bola Ropal off-screen (as you do) and Anakin and Ahsoka are in hot pursuit. Windu, Kenobi, Yoda, Secura and Fisto are apparently not needed for this crisis. After all this is about the future of the Jedi order, therefore these two ar clearlye the most qualified.

    Spoiler: Clearly
    Show


    Anyway, Bane was given command of a Separatiste frigate* and has Brought Ropal to an interrogation room. Thre's amoment where a B1 looks intimidating. The mercenary wants the Jedi to open the Holocron. Why? Just deliver the thing to Sidious, Ventress or Dooku, looks intimithey could open it no problem. there's no need for you to dally here.
    Ropal refuses so Bane cranks up the electric torture and ignores the warnings of the droids, resulting in Ropal's death. You know I thought American children's television was more snitized than European's but a guy just got tortured to death, so apparently not. Anakin, Ahsoka and the Resolute are clearly winning the battle. Yularen wants to destroy the ennemy frigate but the Jedi need to get onboard to rescue Ropal, the Holocron and the crystal. However they don't have any boarding craft. So Anakin decides to use ground vehicles to board the ennemy ship. Because these are also space-worthy for some reason. This would be more impressive if we hadn't already seen Anakin use a similar move against grievous. They literally drop the vehicles ontop of the ennemy ship (guess that bit of TLJ had precednt after all) and blast their way through. Anakin jsut added a spaceman helmet to his uniform and Ahsokah did the same, wearing a full body variation of her usual attire. Apparently whatver material the Jedi's clothes are made of is pretty isolant.

    Bane meanwhile as gotten on the main bridge and is talking to Gunray. Gunray was ordered by sidious to lend the Bounty Hunter a small army and isnsits on getting it back or being reimbursed. Bane tells him that Sidious will ahppily pay. He confesses that his Jedi is dead but he sees Anakin and Ahsoka on a cam footage and syas he has a better idea to get a Jedi to cooperate. He then orders the droid to start the ship's autodestruction sequence and transfer all control to his wrist thingie. Said wrist thingie has three buttons and no interface whatsoever. He then leaves throught he vents. Anakin and Ahsoka reached the detention block and found their comrade's corpse. Yularen wants them to come back as the ennemy ship is being destroyed but they refuse. Yularen wonders why he ended up with Skywalker of all Jedi (maybe he pissed somebody off?) They lead their troops onto the bridge. The commander droid says he's not in command and points to another droid as the leader. A clone blasts that droid. the commander droid says he is in charge then. A clone blasts him. Okay, that was funny.

    They figure that if Bane isn't there, he must be trying to leave and head for the hangar. He's there and uses his sonic screwriver wristband to turn off the artificial gravity. This results in a pretty intense an dunique firefight as Bane and the clones use magnetic boots to anchor themselves wherever they can, the droids float haphazardly, Ahsoka manages as well as she can and Anakin just throws himself at Cad Bane. Bane manages to escape (after surpising everybody by switching the gravity on), though, with Ahsoka hot on his heels despite Anakin's warning that it's a trap. One droid however accidently fires on a canon shell resumting in a an explosion that takes everybody out except Bane and the padawan. Bane taunts her for a bit and they fight. She actually manages to kick his ass until he grabs a hold of her ankle and shocks her.

    Anakin comes to. Rex and some clones survived. He tells them to find a way out of there while he goes to find his Padawan. Bane locked her up in an airlock while he is guarded by two Superbattledroids. There are three regular battle droids outside, who immediately get slaughtered by Anakin presumably only there so that bane would knwo the Jedi was coming. Oen dorid wants to fight, another wants to flee and the third jsut accepts the seet embrace of death. That was funny too. Bane explains to Ani that only one press of his omni-tool wristband will send Ahsoka to her spacey death so no funny business. He wnats him to open the Holocron for him. Anakin obliges despite Ahsoka's pleas not to. Bane places the crystal inside the Holocron. Anakin then draws both of their lightsabers to him
    and attacks. Bane opens the airlock. Anakin throws a saber at the control opening the barrier between him and Ahsoka. Bane leaves as the both manage not to be sucked byt the depressurisation.

    Bane calls Gunray to tell him he's got what he was after. Gunray wants him to send him the data directly, just in case. This obvious ploy immediately fails and Bane glances (from an overlooking plateform) at a shuttle Rex and his guys secured, saying he's found a way out. Just at this moment two clones attack him. Ahsokanakin reacht eh shuttle as the ship comes apart around them. Time to leave. As they do, the hear gunfighting and see Bane's silhouette fall over the plateform railing, shot by a clone. They pick up the clone, he's wounded but assures them he'll be alright. Everybody fail to notice he sounds nothing like the rest of his clone.

    They get back to the Resolute. Yularen asks for a debrief and Anakin says they didn't save Ropal not recovered the data but neither did the Separatists, so... success?

    Spoiler: Anakin right now
    Show


    *Guess that means thzt bane knows Dooku isn't the real leader of the Separatists.




    Spoiler: My thoughts
    Show
    So. Yularen and Anakin's relationship was visibly more strained than usual this time around. I can't really tell who is supposed to be commanding whom, though. Are they of equal rank or what?
    Anakin whoosing Ahsoka over the cystal (location of children/secret of the Jedi) is your classic "loved one vs mcguffin" set-up, but it nicely foreshadows Vader.

    Now, Bane. It took me a while but I think I cracked the character. He's a Lee Van Cleef homage/clone. More precisely, of Angel Eyes/Sentenzia from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Both in looks (general cow-boy get up plus the metal plaques giving him some serious sinister cheeks) and behaviour. This makes a lot of sense since Bobba Fett was insipred by Clint Eastwood's Man With No Name, also from The Dollar Trilogy. He's an uncomplicated thug. He acts professional but his occasional bouts of gratuitous cruelty (his treatment of Todo, his getting carried away by the torture of his helpless prisoner) show that he fundamentally chose this profession because he gets to hurt people. And I'm fine with that. I'm on the record saying that I prefer villains with some complexity, but bane is a henchman, not a member of a dark magic cult, nor a fallen hero nor a barley-living killing machine. He's just a bully with a gun, pretty simple. Why is he that way? I dunno, maybe he wasn't hugged enough as a child. We don't need his backstory. Which isn't to say it shouldn't be done. The Mangoose from the XIII comic book series was a similar character a "mean guy with an ugly face for whenever [the author] needed a bad guy" and the spin-off gave him the incredibly powerful backstory of an East-German forced into crime to help his father figure under the regime he lived in and becoming addicted to it. Was it in any way necessary? no. was it good? Hell, yeah! Maybe there's a great Cad Bane origin story out there somewhere, in this show even, but I don't thnik this show needs it and I won"t fault it for not having it.

    So right now Cad Bane is pretty good fighter whose main qualities are his ability think quickly, his willingness to fight undehanded and his general ruthlessness even at the expanse of his allies. But also, his ennemies having a plot-mandated drop in intellingence because, seriously, how did you fall for the "dressing up as the ennemy" trick twice?

    I'm guessing the next episode will be about Sidious going after these children, not sure how the Jedi are going to know about it since they've jsut lost their contact info, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Anakin jsut added a spaceman helmet to his uniform and Ahsokah did the same, wearing a full body variation of her usual attire. Apparently whatver material the Jedi's clothes are made of is pretty isolant.
    Plo Koon did something of this sort last season, if I recall....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    So. Yularen and Anakin's relationship was visibly more strained than usual this time around. I can't really tell who is supposed to be commanding whom, though. Are they of equal rank or what?
    I think it's supposed to be like Yularen commands the ship and its actual crew, Anakin commands the soldiers under his...command; and they're obligated to teamwork their way to victory...so Yularen's exasperation with Anakin is entirely understandable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Plo Koon did something of this sort last season, if I recall....
    Indeed but he explicitly mentioned that his alien physiology allowed him some limited time in the void depsite not having any additional equipment than when in atmosphere. I mean, that's bull right there, but not the same thing as what's happening here. Here it's merely improbable

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I think it's supposed to be like Yularen commands the ship and its actual crew, Anakin commands the soldiers under his...command; and they're obligated to teamwork their way to victory...so Yularen's exasperation with Anakin is entirely understandable.
    But Yularen defered to Ahsoka twice last season and Anakin was in charge of the space battle over Ryloth.
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    Season 2, Episode 3: Children of the Force

    Spoiler: Recap
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    We open with the last scene of the previous episode, which gives me the opportunity to point out that last time Anakin said he could still feel Bane even though he was dead. This coming from a guy who belongs to an order whose core tenets include "your eyes deceive you, trust in the Force." Anakin is a bad Jedi, is what I'm saying. Anyhoo, as the clone leave the shuttle, some green blood is spotted (I don't remember bane getting injured but okay), they realize what's up and try to stop Bane from escaping. They fail. Sure hope that doesn't become a habit! it does.

    Bane has reached his lair and informs Sidious of his success. Rether than ask for the data obtained, the Sith tasks Bane with selecting four random kids from the list and delivering them to Mustafar for experimentation. Menwhile Yoda, Windu, Kenobi and Skywalker decide to use the Force to try and devine which children are in danger. There's a cool scene where the four of them are comparing notes about the vision they are having in order to make sense of them. They spot three children, one who is taken as they speak, one on Rodia and one on Naboo. Kenobi is sent to Rodia and Anakin (with Ahsoka in tow) to Naboo. Thankfully, my fears were for naught and I am spared another Jar Jar Binks appearance even though the Naboo child is a gungan.

    So it turns out the reason these children aren't with the Temple younglings already is because they are still infant babies. Makes me wonder how the Jedi spotted them. Then again one is levitating toy blocks for funsies. Clearly being able to do that without any training makes them a MArie Sue of the highest order. At least, I'm told that's how it works. Cad Bane has gotten to Rodia first, desguised as a Jedi, and is talking to the mother of the child. He claims he has to take the bay early because of "Jedi impostors kidnapping Force-sensitive babies." Cheeky bastard. She doesn't want to but he uses some hypnotic device on her. When Obi-Wan gets there, the woman tries to stop him with Bane's blaster but he quickly gets her to come back to her senses. Not quickly enough, though, as Bane escapes with the child. On Naboo, he dispenses with the subtleties and tries to simply snatch the kid but is spotted by Ahsoka. They manage to capture him and Ahsoka takes back her hair-necklace thingie that I forgot to say he took from her last time. I think that's a stand-in for a Padawan's ponytail.

    Bane is prisoner on Coruscant but refuses to talk as he's more afraid of his employer than of the Jedi (with good reason). Obi-Wan says that trying the Jedi Mind Trick on someone as strong-willed could be dangerous for the bounty hunter, which Anakin couldn't care less about. Windu, Skywalker and Kenobi try together to force Bane into submission. This is a nice creepy scene as the Jedi talk in unisson while Bane is clearly reeling from the invasion of his mind. He manages to push them back, but when Anakin wants to try again he says he'll co-operate rather than go through this again. Windu and Kenobi will go with him to retrieve the Holocron and the children. Anakin says Palpatine wants an update of the situation. Obi-Wan thinks this is a Jedi internal matter and no concern of the Chancellor but Anakin objects that as long as they are part of the military they have to answer to the Supreme Chancellor. I'm with Ani on this one, Bane isn't a Jedi so this isn't a Jedi internal matter and Bane was working with Separatist forces last time, meaning that, as far as they know, this is part of the ennemy's strategy. Obi-Wan says Anakin has just volunteered and leaves.

    Ahsoka is excited to meet the Chancellor but even if Palpatine is all warmth and smiles to Anakin he pretty much tells Ahsoka to wait outside while the grownups are talking. Ah, he wants to do his manipulating intimately. Maybe people watching stress him and he can't perform quite as well. Skywalker tell him that Bane works for somebody and he's got a hunch it's not Dooku but someone even more powerful. Meanwhile bane has taken Windu and Kenobi to his hide-out, some kind of derelict space station deep in neutral space. Windu falls for a classic reverse psychology trick as Bane says he'll get the Holocron for him and triggers a trap. The room is filled with lasers, the bounty hunter takes advantage of this and escapes through a secret door before starting the sataion's autodestruct countdown. Kenobi rescues Windu and they escape.

    Anakin and Ahsoka are combing bane's ship. He wipes his navigtional computer before each voyage so they can' tell where he's been but they find out he didn't wipe his fuel-computer which lists the last planets he went to (why does it do that?) Inculding Mustafar. So the two of them head there. Sidious meanwhile is overseeing a facility on Mustafar via hologram and getting his creepy old man vibe on. He inteds to use the children to test if some kind of mind control device works, the final goal being to enslave all the prospective Jedi to turn them into his personnal Force-sensitive army. Good to see that he's got hobbies to distract him from making the galaxy destroy itself. One of the droid present tells him that a Jedi ship is approaching. He decides to play it safe and have the whole facility throw itself in the lava below. Scarping this plan for now isn't really a loss but he can't afford the Jedi to find anything they could trace back to him. Ani and Ahsoka land in the facility (I'm guessing they could sense the children but it's probably just another case of Star wars forgetting that planets have more than one place on them). They fight the droids a bit (the principal danger being that the droids are holding the children so they have to be careful not to hurt the babies).

    Anakin and Ahsoka reports back to the council and are informed of Windu and Obi-Wan's middling success ("He escaped again?" says the Padawan to the Jedi Battlemaster). However since the Jedi have the Holcron (and the crystal) back and they can somehow tell the data wasn't copied, they decide to close the case for now.


    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    That was an oaky episode but it felt a bit... crowded? Like Bane escaped the Jedi three times in this and each sequence of action is barely given any time to do anything. There are five different fights (on the cruiser, on Rodia, on Naboo, in the space station and on Mustafar) and I end up with the impression that Bane only wins because his opponents get a plot-mandated drop in competence (like seriously, taking him to his own lair and not searching the place for traps?). Ultimately the plot didn't have anythinf to do with the clone wars but it's good to have Sidious act vilainous once in a while. Even though his scene with Anakin was visibly manipualtion-free it establishes that he doesn't want to deal with Ahsoka which, I'm guessing, will come more into play later as she gets suspissious of him.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-07-05 at 09:31 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    <snip>
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    No one* ever suspects.

    *nothing major even comes of anyone suspecting any bad play on the part of Sidious/Palpatine.
    Last edited by dancrilis; 2020-07-04 at 07:43 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Then again one is levitating toy blocks for funsies. Clearly being able to do that without any training makes them a MArie Sue of the highest order. At least, I'm told that's how it works.
    The argument that Rey is a Mary Sue is not based on her being able to use telekinetic abilities without training so much as on the consistency with which she pulls abilities out of nowhere to resolve the situations in which she finds herself without any need for assistance from the nominally-supporting characters of the film, exacerbated by Rey seemingly being the strongest Force adept of any of the trilogies' protagonists (despite Anakin literally being a Chosen One protagonist who was indicated to at least have the potential to be stronger than any living Jedi in the dying days of the Old Republic), failing at approximately nothing, and suffering virtually no consequences for any failures she could be argued to have had.

    Looking just at untrained telekinesis, the issue is far more that the implication in the older movies is that untrained manifestations of Force sensitivity are fairly subtle - things like uncanny intuition or unusually quick reflexes. Overtly-supernatural abilities like the Mind Trick and telekinesis were restricted to people who'd had training that awakened them to their potential or opened them to the Force or whatever it is that the training does, and even then they - or at least Luke, since we don't really see anyone else at an early stage of their training - seem to need help with the idea that magic doesn't exactly follow the normal rules. Not, mind you, that EU material ever really paid any heed to that implication.

    I would also comment that a telekinetic child is potentially rather dangerous, especially if - as seems to be the case with the Force - the primary limiting factor on their ability to move something telekinetically is whether or not they believe that they can do it. An infant manifesting telekinetic abilities probably ought to have been taken into Jedi custody already, or at the very least the parents ought to have a Jedi or other Force adept on hand to help deal with the fallout of telekinetically-enhanced temper tantrums.

    Makes me wonder how the Jedi spotted them.
    Remember how Anakin had a blood test for Force sensitivity in The Phantom Menace? Include that in the newborn screening process at hospitals or maybe in standard medical checkups for small children, flag up any children with midichlorian counts that exceed a certain threshold, and send a Jedi recruiter to do a confirmation checkup.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    ...he didn't wipe his fuel-computer which lists the last planets he went to (why does it do that?)
    I thought it just listed distance travelled between stops, so they could combine that with the places they knew he had been to narrow down where else he could have gone.

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    The argument that Rey is a Mary Sue is not based on her being able to use telekinetic abilities without training
    That may not be the sole argument for that, but I have seen it used and that's what I made fun of. If you don't use it, then good for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Remember how Anakin had a blood test for Force sensitivity in The Phantom Menace? Include that in the newborn screening process at hospitals or maybe in standard medical checkups for small children, flag up any children with midichlorian counts that exceed a certain threshold, and send a Jedi recruiter to do a confirmation checkup.
    Thing is, they missed Palpatine who was from the same planet than that gungan child so "systematic blood testing" can't be the answer there.
    Quote Originally Posted by AMX View Post
    I thought it just listed distance travelled between stops, so they could combine that with the places they knew he had been to narrow down where else he could have gone.
    Rewatching the scene that's what Anakin says he'll do, but the computer is already showing Mustafar when he boots it up and reads it from a list rather than maikng any calculation. Maybe that's just poor dialog.


    Season 2, Episode 4: Senate Spy
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    Anakin just is onleave from the war (wonder if that's the same one as the season 1 finale) and is visiting Padmé, he even brought a space-pizza! They have a very cute scene where they cuddle and talk about food with Anakin even saying that he thinks of their household as "home". However Anakin eventually has to leave as he's been ignoring Obi-Wan's calls for several "clicks" (the hell are those, even?) and reluctant as he is to go "duty must come first, espcially during war times". the Jedi council explains to Anakin that they need him to convince Padmé to spy on someone for them. the man in question is Senator Ross Clovis (who has exactly the accent that this name implies) who is Senator of Scipio but also a representative of the Interstellar Banking Clan who they suspect of being in cahoots with the Separatists. So, the Republic knows the banking Clan has a seat on the separatist Council, no? How has that organization not been outlwaed and their assets in Republic space frozen is beyond me, but apprently they didn't. Anakin isn't really thrilled at the idea of sending his secret wife on a mission to spy on a potential traitor and his mood only worsens when he hears that the reason the Jedi want her, specifically, to do it is that she and Clovis used to be "friends" when they both started their senatorial career until she dumped him. His outburst at hearing that one gets him a raised eyebrow from Kenobi and Yoda asking why he is so surprised to not know details about Padmé. he awkwardly deflects the question and goes to talk to her.

    He meets her in the Senate (even gets on her flying saucer with her) and tries to apologize but she's still pissed at him for leaving their romantic evening. And she gets even more upset once it's clear he's there because the Jedi Council sent him. He is clearly doing as little as possible to convince her but once he mentions that Clovis is a suspected Separatist agent she exclaims that Yoda never mentionned that. Wait he asked her to spy on a fellow Senator but never mentionned why he wanted her to? What kind of willy-wonka plots is he used to run?
    From this point on the roles are switched as Padmé insists she will spy on Clovis while Ani tries and fails to forbid her from doing so. She even throws his "duty comes first, especially in war-time" bit a thim. I wonder if this is their first argument. The Jedi council give her a more comprehensive briefing (inculding that she may have to rekindle her and Clovis's "friendship" to Ani's visible discomfort) and assign Skywalker to her protection. She invites Clovis to a restaurant and flirts a bit. He is quick to invite her on a business trip he has planned on Cato Nemodia to deal with the Trade Federation. So the Trade Federation, despite creating and mass-producing the CIS's foot soldiers is apparently open for business with the Republic whose Senators are totally persona grata on its base planet, the homeworld of one of the major Separatist people. Suuuuure... Clovis argues that Padmé's good relation with the Trade Federation would help his dealing. Ah yes, of course, why they only invaded her planet, placed a bomb in her ship (killing a childhood friend), sent venomous worms in her bedroom, had her tied to a pillar while beasts came to devour her, and tried to force an old friend of her family to have her executed, they're basically best friends! The hell? Anyway she accepts. Anakin poses as their pilot and basically pranks clovis a couple of times as the Senator gets more and more overt in his intent to get in Padmé's pants (like trying to kiss her when she's clearly reeling back, real classy dude).

    On Cato Neimodia they are welcomed by (former ?) Trade Federation Senator Lott Dod who appeared in TPM long enough to call Padmé a lying liar when she accused the Federation of going all East India Company on her world. What a nice friendly reunion. Clovis excuses himself because he has something to discuss with Dod and promise her a tour later. Clovis and Dod meet with Archduke Poggle, of Geonosis. Turns out they are building a brand new droid foundry for Dooku. Dod and Poggle want a bigger share of the profits but Clovis shut them up as they apparently have ceaded their holdings to the IBC (he did say the Federation owed the IBC money). Padmé tries to snoop in but is spotted and Clovis turns off the holographic display of the foundry while Poggle hides (oh, so he's not kosher?) before she can see anything. As Clovis and Amidala leave, Dod tells Poggle he's just come up with a plan to make the Scipian more pliable: poison Padmé and withheld the antidote until he agrees to their terms. Later he does just that, smearing some poison on a glass he offers Padmé.

    Clovis is giving Padmé his tour of the place and, once they're back in the room the hologram display is in and says she's dying of thirst so he'll leave to fetch her some water. She turns the computer on by guessing the password (Padmé). Apparently this is Clovis's computer even though this is Dod's place and Clovis didn't bring it with him? She finds the plans and figure what's up so she downloads it and signals Anakin. Clovis comes back and, in order to hide her memory-slate, she flings herself at him. In full view of Ani. Awkward. She throws the slate at Skywalker and he brings it to R2 telling him to leave in five minutes whether he's back or not, as the Jedi must see the evidence. The poison starts taking effect though and Amidala faints. Clovis takes her to her room and pretends to leave to get a medical droid. In truth he goes to Dodd and accuses him of poisinning her. Dodd simply retorts that she's a Republic spy, something Clovis only believes after seeing that his hologram is gone (did she delete it from the computer or is the Galaxy far far away's copyright security absolutely over the top?). They accuse each other of treason and Anakin shows up. Clovis confesses that Dodd poisonned her but he thinks that if Anakin gives him the hologram he can trade it for Padmé's life with Lot Dodd. Anakin decides to cut the middle-man and negotiate with Lot Dod himself. Clovis however is afraid of what Dod might do to him. Anakin basically says that this sounds like a Clovis Problem, not an Anakin problem. Clovis is more worried for Padmé than for himself and agrees to take her to Corsucant. Dodd intercepts them and Clovis just draws a gun at him demanding the antidote, which is given, with the promise that Clovis will pay for this. As the heroes are about to leave Clovis begs Anakin for the hologram. "I wish I could give it to you, but I have a lot of faith in your survival skills." Ding! +5 Dark Side points. Anakin injects Padmé with the antidote and reassures her that their mission is a success and that he's never doubted her. And I have a space-elevator on Corellia to sell to anybody who believes that. Dod and Poggle, for their part want a word with Clovis, pay no attention to the droid firing squad.




    Spoiler: My thoughts
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    I think this was the best episode in the season so far (but we're only 4 episodes in). The whole separatist plot doesn't make much sense but it's only really here to serve the actual plot of Anakin being a jealous husband. This is done pretty well, as we already know Anakin and Padmé are going to stay together they don't even bother to make Clovis a credible rival to Anakin, which only highlights Anakin's childish insecurity. One bit that I only got later on was that since Clovis and Padmé were dating back when she got her start in the Senate, that means that it was during the post TPM timeskip meaning that her defense of "it was before we were together" doesn't mesh with Anakin becasue he was already obsessed with her at the time. As always Anakin is way more involved in the relationship than she is. One thing that I found weird was the the episode refusal to actually say Padmé and Clovis were dating. Like they insist they were "friends" but never say "lovers", "dating", "in love", "boy/girlfriend" or any other romantic term. What's up with that? I really appreciated their moment at the beginning. This, and their other moment at the end, make his action in RotS way more believable than "I'm haunted by the kiss you should never have given me."

    Lott Dodd is a better Gunray than Gunray. Maybe it's just because he was barely in TPM, or maybe it's because he's not focused on petty revenge. I'm completely lost on how the CIS works however. It was my understanding that the Trade Federation, the Techno-Union, the ISB and a few other Megacorporations were pooling their resources (and private army) to organize a rebellion against the Republic in order to basically turn the galaxy into an anarcho-capitalist money-making machine while making a half-assed claim of defending the Outer Rims from Core-ist oppression. But this epsiode seems to present these same megacorps as war profiteers who deal with both parties? Even though previous episodes showed Gunray and Tambor in charge of Separatist armies and empowered to negotiate on the CIS's behalf. It's intersting to see that while the Trade Federation is apparently all Nemoidians, the ISB is more diverse with a high-ranking human.

    Speaking of, Clovis is an interesting character. He's a bit cliché as a romantic rival working for the ennemy but he seems to be genuinely in love with Padmé (even if he's acting entitled about it). If he isn't shot at the end of the episode so he might develop into a nice rounded character.

    It's good to see this serie realize you can make a good episode without an action scene.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-08-04 at 05:25 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That may not be the sole argument for that, but I have seen it used and that's what I made fun of.
    Seconded. I also dislike that, because it's both simpler and more accurate to just chalk it up as bad writing. I also think a good deal of TCW has bad writing, like the infant using the Force (seriously, anyone with any experience with an infant would know that, even if they could access hidden powers like that, it would not be the controlled manner that adults or even adoloescents would have, but jerky, sudden, unpredicatable telekinetic thrashings, similar to how they "control" the rest of their body).
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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Fyraltari watches The Clone Wars (2008) for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Seconded. I also dislike that, because it's both simpler and more accurate to just chalk it up as bad writing. I also think a good deal of TCW has bad writing, like the infant using the Force (seriously, anyone with any experience with an infant would know that, even if they could access hidden powers like that, it would not be the controlled manner that adults or even adoloescents would have, but jerky, sudden, unpredicatable telekinetic thrashings, similar to how they "control" the rest of their body).
    Meh, I don't think the Force is comparable to motor control, it's more spiritual than that. It doesn't look like Force users really have to think of how much (physical) force to apply and where they need to get the precise acceleration they want so that the object will move the way they want to. It seems more that they just have to want the object to move and it moves how they want to.

    They don't move the object as much as, through the Force, make it want to move.

    It's like drawing, in a way. The first time you try to draw you are disappointed because even though you have a lcear picture in your head you don't have (yet) the fine motor control required to actually translate that image on the paper. With the Force the image gets translated from you mind to reality without having to go through all these annoying muscles.
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