Dragonriders of 5e pern

[Shackled Slayer]

I'm contemplating a setting similar to the dragonriders of pern series, but im not sure where to begin, exactly. I know i would be using the D&D 5e system, it's just easier all round. I know at least one of my players is interested, but i haven't heard from the rest of the regular play-group yet, and im not sure any of them are familiar with the books. But lets say everyone understands the concepts and motivators, the tone and drives, and everybody is on board, because frankly i enjoy world-building.

So, i intend to have it set in 5e. And i will probably use dragon stats between young and adult ranges. Should i use multiple elements? Perhaps just fire and ice?

Should i set it just before, shortly after, during, or long before/after a thread-fall? Should i try to dial back magic or make a restricted spell list that starting players can choose from, and make other spells quest objectives? I probably would say yes on that last one. Cone of flame makes dragon mounts a bit redundant, lol.

What should the world map be like? How do i handle the uncomfortable "breeder" attitudes? Should i just sweep that under the rug?

And what about alternatives to the purely psychic interaction of dragons and riders? I debated on having an james cameron's avatar type neural interface scenario. And what about going deeper in that direction?

[Nifft]

Do you intend for everyone in the group to be a dragon-rider?

If it's literally the Pern setting, then I think you might want to disallow magic-users in general. Weird Ancient Science seems a lot more appropriate for that setting -- and you might be able to re-fluff some "magic" classes as SCIENCE! but not all of them.

You might also double down on the telepathy aspect, and make "magic" classes actually psionics in disguise -- something like the GOO Warlock might be a character with a ray-gun (for Eldritch Blast) and some psionic abilities, which are limited because you're a Warlock. Heh, your "pact" might have been accidentally falling into a vat of grey goo, which augmented you in strange and unpredictable ways.

IIRC there were some forms of magical music in Pern, so maybe Bards are a thing? If you want them, then look for an excuse for their abilities.


PS: Somebody should really steal the domain name "PernHub", right now it's some kind of phishing site.

[Shackled Slayer]

Do you intend for everyone in the group to be a dragon-rider?

If it's literally the Pern setting, then I think you might want to disallow magic-users in general. Weird Ancient Science seems a lot more appropriate for that setting -- and you might be able to re-fluff some "magic" classes as SCIENCE! but not all of them.

You might also double down on the telepathy aspect, and make "magic" classes actually psionics in disguise -- something like the GOO Warlock might be a character with a ray-gun (for Eldritch Blast) and some psionic abilities, which are limited because you're a Warlock. Heh, your "pact" might have been accidentally falling into a vat of grey goo, which augmented you in strange and unpredictable ways.

IIRC there were some forms of magical music in Pern, so maybe Bards are a thing? If you want them, then look for an excuse for their abilities.


PS: Somebody should really steal the domain name "PernHub", right now it's some kind of phishing site.

It's intended to stick pretty closely to pern, but not identically. Main ideas i want to preserve are psionic dragon companions, threadfall and the weyr/hold political interactions.

Not everybody HAS to play a dragonrider but it would be encouraged. It would also use spme d&d's normal monster interactions.

[Nifft]

It's intended to stick pretty closely to pern, but not identically. Main ideas i want to preserve are psionic dragon companions, threadfall and the weyr/hold political interactions.

Not everybody HAS to play a dragonrider but it would be encouraged. It would also use spme d&d's normal monster interactions.

Cool.

My question was because Dragonriders will have immense combat power and remarkable mobility. If you want everyone to participate in most combats, you'll need to either make everyone a Dragonrider, or make half of the people Dragon Backseat Support, or figure out some other mechanism to balance everyone else up to both the raw power and the fast long-range 3D mobility which the Dragonriders will have.

This is the biggest balance problem: having a huge honkin' dragon is a noteworthy power increase.

It's a problem to just give SOME characters access to a dragon, but it's a solvable problem. There are a few ways to fix it:

- So, option zero is just to enforce that everyone is a Dragonrider. The PCs are a squad. They've all got the same options, and that's probably fine -- you could have character builds and dragon builds, for encounters both on & off dragons. Making everyone a Dragonrider means you don't need a specific Dragonrider class (or family of subclasses).

The other way to go is to have some PCs ride dragons, but not every PC. This means you need a Dragonrider class, or a few Dragonrider subclasses. That's probably not sufficient by itself (unless you go half-and-half, with 50% Dragonrider PCs and 50% Dragon Back Seat Artillery / Utility / Support) -- but it's a start, and you can fill the rest in with perks that will partially compensate for the lack of a dragon.

- Option one might be Dragongrafts, which puts dragon wings on a character, enabling participation in flying combat by a non-rider. If the PCs accept that dragons can fly, then putting the exact same biology on a humanoid shouldn't provoke too much additional disbelief. Dragongrafts give a way for PCs to start human but slowly transform into something Other, especially if you later offer Threadgrafts (or make Threadgrafted antagonists). Fits potentially any 5e class, you'd treat it like a Boon and you could have a Boon progression which roughly matches Dragonrider capabilities.

- Psionic drones are a second way: perhaps there are a very limited number of ancient psychic brain interface units, and a character who can bond with one of them has access to a combat drone. A lost or destroyed drone will be replaced very swiftly by an ancient orbital drone factory, but the interface can only control one drone at a time. The Drone-using PC being on the ground (presumably hiding) would present a different tactical vulnerability as compared to the Dragonrider. Probably better for a skilled class, maybe an adaptation for a Beastmaster Ranger or Arcane Trickster Rogue. This is more work than the other options, but it's a neat tactical difference.

- Third, a combination of the previous two: it's not a dragon-wing graft, it's a cybernetic aerial rapid deployment suit (CARDS). Basically flying power armor. Inferior to a dragon, but usable indoors, better protection than regular armor, plus it gives some kind of ability boosts, and you've got a great excuse for utility components. Again, a different tactical vulnerability -- this PC is personally less vulnerable, but in trade for that is a bit less powerful. (Hexblade Warlock might fit here, or Totem Barbarian, or even a Dragon Sorcerer -- all of them gaining free tactical flight, and perhaps a bit of AC. "It's not a cantrip, it's a shoulder-mounted plasma cannon!")

Anyway, just spitballing some ideas.

The important thing here is that you have a plan to deal with the HUGE power and mobility difference between a Dragonrider and everyone else.

===

Now, about dragons themselves...

I think you'll want to limit breath attacks. Perhaps start with 1/short rest, and then allow a Dragonrider PC to expend a spell slot for each additional breath attack. That gives you nice scaling with PC level, and plot-wise it gives a darn good reason for the big strong dragon to be listening to the weak little monkey on its back.


Anyway, post what you come up with and we can tear into it.

[Shackled Slayer]

Cool.

My question was because Dragonriders will have immense combat power and remarkable mobility. If you want everyone to participate in most combats, you'll need to either make everyone a Dragonrider, or make half of the people Dragon Backseat Support, or figure out some other mechanism to balance everyone else up to both the raw power and the fast long-range 3D mobility which the Dragonriders will have.

This is the biggest balance problem: having a huge honkin' dragon is a noteworthy power increase.

It's a problem to just give SOME characters access to a dragon, but it's a solvable problem. There are a few ways to fix it:

- So, option zero is just to enforce that everyone is a Dragonrider. The PCs are a squad. They've all got the same options, and that's probably fine -- you could have character builds and dragon builds, for encounters both on & off dragons. Making everyone a Dragonrider means you don't need a specific Dragonrider class (or family of subclasses).

The other way to go is to have some PCs ride dragons, but not every PC. This means you need a Dragonrider class, or a few Dragonrider subclasses. That's probably not sufficient by itself (unless you go half-and-half, with 50% Dragonrider PCs and 50% Dragon Back Seat Artillery / Utility / Support) -- but it's a start, and you can fill the rest in with perks that will partially compensate for the lack of a dragon.

- Option one might be Dragongrafts, which puts dragon wings on a character, enabling participation in flying combat by a non-rider. If the PCs accept that dragons can fly, then putting the exact same biology on a humanoid shouldn't provoke too much additional disbelief. Dragongrafts give a way for PCs to start human but slowly transform into something Other, especially if you later offer Threadgrafts (or make Threadgrafted antagonists). Fits potentially any 5e class, you'd treat it like a Boon and you could have a Boon progression which roughly matches Dragonrider capabilities.

- Psionic drones are a second way: perhaps there are a very limited number of ancient psychic brain interface units, and a character who can bond with one of them has access to a combat drone. A lost or destroyed drone will be replaced very swiftly by an ancient orbital drone factory, but the interface can only control one drone at a time. The Drone-using PC being on the ground (presumably hiding) would present a different tactical vulnerability as compared to the Dragonrider. Probably better for a skilled class, maybe an adaptation for a Beastmaster Ranger or Arcane Trickster Rogue. This is more work than the other options, but it's a neat tactical difference.

- Third, a combination of the previous two: it's not a dragon-wing graft, it's a cybernetic aerial rapid deployment suit (CARDS). Basically flying power armor. Inferior to a dragon, but usable indoors, better protection than regular armor, plus it gives some kind of ability boosts, and you've got a great excuse for utility components. Again, a different tactical vulnerability -- this PC is personally less vulnerable, but in trade for that is a bit less powerful. (Hexblade Warlock might fit here, or Totem Barbarian, or even a Dragon Sorcerer -- all of them gaining free tactical flight, and perhaps a bit of AC. "It's not a cantrip, it's a shoulder-mounted plasma cannon!")

Anyway, just spitballing some ideas.

The important thing here is that you have a plan to deal with the HUGE power and mobility difference between a Dragonrider and everyone else.

===

Now, about dragons themselves...

I think you'll want to limit breath attacks. Perhaps start with 1/short rest, and then allow a Dragonrider PC to expend a spell slot for each additional breath attack. That gives you nice scaling with PC level, and plot-wise it gives a darn good reason for the big strong dragon to be listening to the weak little monkey on its back.


Anyway, post what you come up with and we can tear into it.

Well, i certainly agree that dragons are powerful allies, but they also are described as gentle creatures (so far) and are generally bred for a singular purpose, to fight a specific thing, the thread, and i might impose that the dragons are skittish to fight anything that isn't murder worms falling from the stars. The other limiter is time.
Dragons will take longer to reach adulthood, so gameplay wise the players are only going to be dealing with a horse sized animal, that might act recklessly or timidly. They won't be adult sized until 13th lvl plus, and they will likely be juvenile or young MM stat dragons for most of the adventuring time.

the flying/non flying player thing is more of a feature than a problem in my mind however. Having the dragon rider character have to hang back or scout ahead gives them a tactical decision of either staying with the group and have support, or scout ahead and risk allot more in the interest of making better time or fore-warning the party of an encounter down the road. It also isn't practical to bring their dragons everywhere with them, as these are large animals even at young stages.

As for a class, there was a dragonrider prestige class in 3.5 that i could tailor to 5th ed. That would cover most of the needs, but that represents a specialization. I don't think they need a class specifically, it functions as any combat mount except you have a psychic connection to the mount. Maybe your mount has attacks of it's own or special actions, but it can't get too carried away without risking the rider getting thrown.

Im not sure it's an avenue i'll pursue at this stage though, this is more of a setting workshop, you know? Im not specifically shooting down your ideas or anything, just replying with my thoughts so that they can be built upon. It helps keep the setting making tools sharp.