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  1. - Top - End - #541
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Primaris marines barely changed in points.
    The one number they've shown is like a 30% increase. Have the other points values leaked?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    The one number they've shown is like a 30% increase. Have the other points values leaked?
    Yes. This Google spreadsheet tracks the percentage changes in all currently known points values; the creator is updating it as things get leaked and it will be completed when Chapter Approved is released.

    What stayed the same, as you can see, was not Primaris Marines, but Terminators.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2020-07-12 at 01:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Yes. This Google spreadsheet tracks the percentage changes in all currently known points values; the creator is updating it as things get leaked and it will be completed when Chapter Approved is released.

    What stayed the same, as you can see, was not Primaris Marines, but Terminators.
    Agressors went up like 3pts. Hellblasters are also pretty much the same.

    Most primaris saw an increase on the base unit, and weapons going to 0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    "Morale unchanged." Mate, did you even read it? Combat Attrition is a whole lot more forgiving than 1d6+8-Ld or whatever resulting in losing the difference in models.
    However, the test itself remains unchanged, which means that whatever made you inmune / unlikely to fail before still does now. So there is still the same 'I ignore it or I get ****ed' binarity from 8th regarding morale.
    Last edited by LansXero; 2020-07-12 at 03:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    However, the test itself remains unchanged, which means that whatever made you inmune / unlikely to fail before still does now. So there is still the same 'I ignore it or I get ****ed' binarity from 8th regarding morale.
    Not really. Now it's 'I ignore it or I'm barely affected by it'.

    The changes to morale make it even less impactful than before. It doesn't matter if you fail a test by 1 or by 50. You still only lose 1 model, and then roll on the rest of the squad. So it's also even more binary than before.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    What's super interesting, digging into it, is that heavy weapons on Infantry and the same heavy weapons on other things have different points entries now, and the infantry weapons are significantly cheaper, presumably to make up for the non-infantry not taking the heavy weapons movement penalty, with the Devastator-portable heavy weapons uniformly being 5 points cheaper on Infantry as other units (with the notable exception of plasma cannons). Tactical Marines' base cost went up by enough to overcome the savings, but Devastators are going up 2 points per model and on average down 5 or 10 points per weapon.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    What's super interesting, digging into it, is that heavy weapons on Infantry and the same heavy weapons on other things have different points entries now, and the infantry weapons are significantly cheaper, presumably to make up for the non-infantry not taking the heavy weapons movement penalty, with the Devastator-portable heavy weapons uniformly being 5 points cheaper on Infantry as other units (with the notable exception of plasma cannons). Tactical Marines' base cost went up by enough to overcome the savings, but Devastators are going up 2 points per model and on average down 5 or 10 points per weapon.
    so how does that lead to 'much less models on the table for much faster games!'? or more importantly 'well, with less minis per army, you wont even feel the smaller table size!'.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Vehicles seem to be up essentially across the board, although some shenanigans with taking default weapons down to 0 points is messing with that, but even accounting for that the average cost is still going up. Firstborn Marines aren't getting the shaft as hard as it looks like, while Intercessors are indeed up 3 points per model, no weapon offsets. We also still haven't gotten the melee weapons or other wargear points costs leaked (not to mention factions apart from the poster boys), so we don't have the full picture.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    So lets recap:
    You silly goose. You forgot to take things literally.

    "less alpha strikes!" -> First turn matters even more than before.
    There are less alpha strikes. It's just that the ones that remain (e.g; Thunderfires with Devastator Doctrine shooting twice) are even more effective than before!

    "melee edition!" -> Hordes are dead
    Oooh Lans. You forgot. It is the melee edition. With all terrain either blocking LoS or giving -1 to hit (remember kids, Dark Reapers can still alpha strike!), it means that a lot of melee units are still very viable, in fact, strong melee units, are even stronger now, because they're less likely to be shot at. Very similar to how units that ignore Terrain (e.g; Wyverns) are even better in 9th Ed.
    Bonus points if you just asked yourself "WTF is a Night Spinner!?"

    Hordes aren't synonymous with melee. That's something fake that the community made up.

    It is the melee edition...You just wont be doing it with hordes... Have you bought your requisite Assault Centurions yet?

    "more meaningful terrain rules!" -> mostly same stuf as 8th, with a couple clear outliers and a couple useless ones. People will once again revert to whatever the examples make the best, so its obscuring / dense for days. Also more busywork.
    Lans, you keep saying things.

    Terrain blocks LoS or gives -1 to hit. That's way better than before, and it is 'more' than before.
    Who cares if the other 10 things are superfluous or things we've seen before.
    We've got more. So there are, 'more meaningful terrain rules'.

    "morale will not be 100-0!" -> morale unchanged.
    Yeah, but Combat Attrition is a brand new extra new rule that swings wildly towards randomness!

    "Less miniatures in the board will make faster games!" -> Primaris marines barely changed in points.
    Silly Lans, don't you remember? Marines OP, Nerf Xenos.
    Less miniatures on the board only applies to players who don't play Space Marines.

    "More CPs for everyone!" -> For some; for most much much less.
    This is a misquote (IIRC).
    It's more Stratagems for everyone. Which is true. Because having Reserves is a Stratagem now.

    So, what did 9th fix again exactly?
    It removed hordes from the meta to make games quicker, and made Vehicles a lot stronger and Monsters a little bit stronger.
    It fixed Terrain by adding two optional rules that matter.

    It made sure Space Marines were on top of the meta, sharing only with Craftworlds...And some players don't believe Craftworlds should share.
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  9. - Top - End - #549
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Relevant to the points discussion, Goonhammer have a copyof the new points, and have a comprehensive review up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goonhammer
    The Really High Level Summary

    This section is at least partially us showing off how clever we are and providing a baseline for people who want to crunch data to compare against. If you’re not interested, the one-thousand foot summary of the changes is as follows:

    Almost everything went up a bit.
    Characters went up less than everything else.
    Cheaper stuff went up proportionally more than more expensive stuff, but horde infantry got a partial exemption.
    A moderate number of units got targeted nerfs.
    A smaller number of units got targeted buffs.
    Equipment costs were rounded and normalised across factions.
    They also have tier lists of winners/losers for those interested in such things. Seems to back up the hordes are suffering argument, given both orks and tyranids are definite losers, whereas more elite forces like Knights and Custodes are winners. I wonder if we’ll see a resurgence of nidzilla style forces rather than hordes of gaunts.

    Of particular note to me is the apparent standardisation around 5 pt increments, which to me feels like it undermines the entire point of the repointing exercise. It’s increasing points levels to make more adjustment possible, then removing that ability to adjust. Maybe we’ll see more incremental adjustments later in the edition, but until then this feels like a poor move, given that if you want something easy to add up (which is presumably the point), use power level.
    Last edited by Avaris; Yesterday at 05:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    They really understated the losses to Tau when Shield Drones went up to 15 points per model. There's now no (statistical) reason to run them over gun drones—three gun drones will soak roughly the same amount of fire, and can also do some shooting. And a 50% price increase on your bread & butter units is just faction-crippling. Yeesh.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    9th edition errata/FAQs have stealth dropped on Warcom. Haven’t had a chance to read through yet, but already hearing some grumbling about things like power of the machine spirit.

    Edit: Looking through Drukhari, it looks like stratagems or traits that gave to-hit penalties before now do other things. The drukhari stratagem to get -1 to be hit now improves armor saves. The poison weapons that had bonuses to wound (e.g. venom blade, formerly 4+ to wound but with a +2 on the roll) now just wound on 2+, likely to avoid the new max -/+1 modifier rule. And it looks like faction traits that made it so only one model max could flee on failed morale will now let that army ignore combat attrition (so effectively the same as before, as you only take combat attrition after failing morale and a model flees).

    And looking at the marine errata, it looks like power of the machine spirit is flat out gone.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizhail View Post
    9th edition errata/FAQs have stealth dropped on Warcom. Haven’t had a chance to read through yet, but already hearing some grumbling about things like power of the machine spirit.

    Edit: Looking through Drukhari, it looks like stratagems or traits that gave to-hit penalties before now do other things. The drukhari stratagem to get -1 to be hit now improves armor saves. The poison weapons that had bonuses to wound (e.g. venom blade, formerly 4+ to wound but with a +2 on the roll) now just wound on 2+, likely to avoid the new max -/+1 modifier rule. And it looks like faction traits that made it so only one model max could flee on failed morale will now let that army ignore combat attrition (so effectively the same as before, as you only take combat attrition after failing morale and a model flees).

    And looking at the marine errata, it looks like power of the machine spirit is flat out gone.
    RE: Drukhari: You're mixing up the stratagems, they are rewording their version of the take cover stratagem so that even if it isn't light cover, you can still use it to get a +1 to your save.

    Anyways, I'm updating my lists and going to do a winners/losers as I do so.

    For Craftworlds:

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    Striking Scorpions: Went up 4 points. Which now means they are the same cost as Dire Avengers instead of being 2 points cheaper. For a weak unit this really really hurts.

    Autarchs: Why did this jump 15 points? They are so useless to begin with.

    Night Spinners: A 35 points jump and does not benefit from the new vehicle rules at all. The new blast rules sure, but unless someone is running hordes, I think that 35 point is too punishing.

    Fire Prisms: A 30 point jump for them, but the Blast rule will help out their D3 shots when aiming at bigger squads of elite infantry. Still, losing the ability to fall back and shoot, and their only gun being lance really really hurts them. But at least moving and shooting isn't a problem for them.

    The Avatar: A 15 point jump hurts, particularly when there is even less need to ignore morale. He does get the extra shot in close combat, but I don't think that's enough and he certainly didn't need a nerf to begin with.

    Crimson Hunter Exarchs: Got nerfed pretty badly. They are now a 30 point upgrade on the normal Crimson Hunter. So you know, just go with the normal Crimson Hunter.


    Spoiler: Winners
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    Fire Dragons: After all is said and done, they only went up 1 point. So they are pretty much just as good as before, and more needed with the rising tank meta.

    Vypers: The new vehicle rules really help them with taking heavy weapons, and they only went up 3 points base with the drop in twin shurkian catapults

    Farseer Skyrunners: Again the increase in points is offset by the decrease in Twin Shuriken Catapults

    Autarch Skyrunners: Ditto, and Laser Lances went down a little bit too.

    Crimson Hunters: Only went up 12 points compared to the Crimson Hunter Exarchs 20 point increase. So they are now much cheaper than the Exarch, and I feel like losing out on the Exarch Power is worth it. The new vehicle buffs really benefit Crimson Hunters a lot.

    Warlocks/Spiritseers: Only a 5 point increase, so they are back to what they were before CA 2019


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    Shining Spears and Dark Reapers both got nerfed, but they might still be good enough anyways, particularly if the meta is heavy Primaris Marines.


    So question; does something that ignores LoS ignore Dense Terrain as well? I mean it should, but does it?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    So question; does something that ignores LoS ignore Dense Terrain as well? I mean it should, but does it?
    There's no errata to that effect in the Guard FAQ for the various artillery.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Limited Edition which is designed to sell out, sells out. People get mad about exclusivity, and GW encouraging scalpers.
    Imagine releasing limited editions during recession and restricting your own ability to make money?

    GW backstracks and says that the limited edition, isn't even limited. Everyone who wants one, can have one.

    In other less forum-allowed news:
    GW says inclusivity is important and anyone who disagrees can get out. Infamously saying "You will not be missed." (GW doesn't miss the trick of doing the paradox of being inclusive whilst also kicking people out)
    Short story author for Black Library (incidentally, I've never heard of him until this event) begins calling out ****ty behaviour.
    No no no no no.
    That's not what they meant. Only the audience is freely allowed to attack each other and gate-keep. If we do it, we might lose money.
    Author is fired for walking GW's talk.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    In other less forum-allowed news:
    GW says inclusivity is important and anyone who disagrees can get out. Infamously saying "You will not be missed." (GW doesn't miss the trick of doing the paradox of being inclusive whilst also kicking people out)
    Short story author for Black Library (incidentally, I've never heard of him until this event) begins calling out ****ty behaviour.
    No no no no no.
    That's not what they meant. Only the audience is freely allowed to attack each other and gate-keep. If we do it, we might lose money.
    Author is fired for walking GW's talk.
    Said author just got in last year via Black Library's short story competition, it's small wonder you hadn't heard of him. And yeah, the tolerance paradox is what it is, however the ending of GW's statement was obviously a reference to the rulebook frontispiece; "the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed."
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    however the ending of GW's statement was obviously a reference to the rulebook frontispiece; "the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed."
    I know what it's a reference to. But the fact is, that they put it in an official statement from the company itself. Because it's a reference, does that mean it's a joke? Do they not actually mean what they said? No. It's in an official statement. Reference or not.

    "Get out - you will not be missed." is a very strong statement that can only be taken one way.
    Freeing up your audience (and your workers, turns out) to act a certain way - one way or the other. A way you don't actually want them to act, turns out.

    EDIT:
    ...I think that's about the extent we can talk about the subject in the Playground.

    Back to talking about Points changes and nerfs to everything!
    So far it looks like 1500-1750 Points in 8th Ed., is around 2000 Points in 9th.
    But if everything is nerfed, nothing is?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    I haven't verified myself, but I've seen a chart claiming that in aggregate Craftworlds prices went up an average of 45% or something ridiculous like that while Custodes went up 6%.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    I haven't verified myself, but I've seen a chart claiming that in aggregate Craftworlds prices went up an average of 45% or something ridiculous like that while Custodes went up 6%.
    Custodes were a big winner, but the Craftworld average was more like 16%, which fits with the lists I've been updating today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    bout the extent we can talk about the subject in the Playground.

    Back to talking about Points changes and nerfs to everything!
    So far it looks like 1500-1750 Points in 8th Ed., is around 2000 Points in 9th.
    But if everything is nerfed, nothing is?
    More like 1800-1850 is 2000 points in 9th. I'm finding that after I update my lists I'm usually 150-200 points over.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Custodes were a big winner, but the Craftworld average was more like 16%, which fits with the lists I've been updating today.
    I looked into it further, and that graph was only accounting for increases in units and was deceptive because it didn't account for a lot of the unique weapons being taken down to 0 points and rolled into the costs of the units that carry them.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Space Marines, Big Losers
    Ideally, Space Marines will get a new Codex relatively quickly and add abilities.

    Captain in Gravis Armour: They were bad before, and they're still bad now.
    Captain on Bike: New Terrain rules guarantee that a Jump Pack is better. The +12 Point increase, doesn't help.
    Primaris HQs: ...Except the Phobos ones...Except Phobos Lieutenants.

    Lieutenants: Lose out on the fact that CP farms no longer exist, so you're not really looking at finding cheap HQs anymore.

    Infiltrators: Going to 24 Points really hurts. The SC! Vanguard box is no longer a strong recommendation from me.

    Tactical Squads: Like you didn't see that coming? The only reason to run a Tactical Squad, ever, is to run a Grav-Cannon.

    Impulsor: Big oof.

    Assault Centurions: Getting hit with +15 Points each hurts. Having Hurricanes go up +5 also hurts. Flamers went down a Point each, for a net increase of +18 Points each. Ouch.

    Contemptor Dreadnoughts: Vehicles with Invulnerable saves need to get hit hard this edition.

    Vicky Warsuit: Can't say I didn't expect it.
    Redemptor Dreadnought: I blame Iron Hands.

    Rievers

    Centurion Devastators: 50% nerf on top of the +5 Points to Hurricanes for +25 each is brutal. Centurion Missile Launchers came down. But you do want the Hurricanes.

    Whirlwinds: Holy ****. Ignoring Terrain on top of new Vehicle rules means that these guys need to get dropped into the ground... Thunderfire Cannons still relatively okay, though ('cause they're not Vehicles, obviously and didn't get hit as hard).

    Repulsor Executioner: Well, me personally, I blame the Skyshield that the three of them sit on.

    Stormhawk and Stormraven: Yeah, with new Vehicle rules, it's hard not to see this happening.

    Power Weapons: Costing them all the same means that the Power Axe is best, all the time. However, bringing a single Lightning Claw down to 5, as well, means that the Claw is better in every case except vs. T8. But it's moot because a Power Fist is still the best.
    Force Weapons: Likewise, making them all cost the same (i.e; Free) means that you should only take a Force Axe.

    Hand Flamers: Special Pistols are garbage, but these were the only good ones. Going from 1 Point, to 5 Points, means that people should be taking knives to their Intercessor Sergeants (y'know, the Veteran ones that don't have Stalker Bolt Rifles)

    Master-Crafted Boltguns: If you weren't taking them before (you shouldn't have been), you're definitely not taking them, now.

    Twin Heavy Bolters: ...I mean, if you haven't already converted all your Razorbacks to Twin Assault Cannons*...Why not?

    Big Winners
    Librarians: I guess not so much 'winners', as they become auto-includes, as having Psykers now helps you win the game, or, prevents your opponent from doing the exact same thing.

    Techmarines: Vehicles getting stronger whilst this guy gets cheaper, is real good.

    Land Speeder Storm: Huge price drop on board control with a Troops unit. MSU Storms is likely to be a viable Space Marine build.

    Devastators: Holy ****. 2-Point price increase each on 5 models is nothing compared to -40. Go out and buy your Devastators kids. They're real good.

    'Any Vehicle with an Assault Cannon or Twin Assault Cannon': 'Nuff said.

    Grav-Cannons: ...That's a mistake, right? You didn't mean to discount them by that much, right? ...Were 7th Ed. players complaining?
    Missile Launchers: They gain Blast and go down in Points...What?

    Conclusion
    Space Marine gunlines got a huge boost in the form of Devastators basically costing -30 Points.
    Land Speeder Storms are at least viable, if not competitive. Because MSU is MSU and Scouts are still cheap(ish).
    Razorbacks*, likewise, will be at least viable with Twin Assault Cannons.
    Everyone buy 3 Stormtalons, if you haven't already got 2 ("But don't though, 'cause GW can change anything they want making all purchases pointless, and why can't we just use proxies?'). They didn't get nerfed and have Twin Assault Cannons.
    New Terrain rules mean that Eliminators and Thunderfires - even nerfed - are more auto-include than they were before.

    Space Marine armies should probably be 'Battalion + Spearhead'.

    *However, as with 7th-8th Ed., now with 8th-9th Ed. Razorbacks don't come with TACs in the box. They can always lose the option in the next Codex (third one in two years!).
    Last edited by Cheesegear; Yesterday at 09:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    *snip*

    Conclusion
    Space Marine gunlines got a huge boost in the form of Devastators basically costing -30 Points.
    Land Speeder Storms are at least viable, if not competitive. Because MSU is MSU and Scouts are still cheap(ish).
    Razorbacks*, likewise, will be at least viable with Twin Assault Cannons.
    Everyone buy 3 Stormtalons, if you haven't already got 2 ("But don't though, 'cause GW can change anything they want making all purchases pointless, and why can't we just use proxies?'). They didn't get nerfed and have Twin Assault Cannons.
    New Terrain rules mean that Eliminators and Thunderfires - even nerfed - are more auto-include than they were before.

    Space Marine armies should probably be 'Battalion + Spearhead'.

    *However, as with 7th-8th Ed., now with 8th-9th Ed. Razorbacks don't come with TACs in the box. They can always lose the option in the next Codex (third one in two years!).
    You know, with Land Speeders looking good, maybe you should look at Brigades instead. What do you have for good/cheapish elites? How did Dreadnaughts come out?
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  22. - Top - End - #562
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    You know, with Land Speeders looking good, maybe you should look at Brigades instead. What do you have for good/cheapish elites? How did Dreadnaughts come out?
    Straight off the top of my head, Vicky Warsuits still do what no other unit in the Codex, does. Similar to Thunderfire Cannons, because of the role that Vicky Warsuits are in, they'd have to be nerfed a lot harder than they are, to be removed from peoples' lists of good units.
    The hard part, is still trying to fit them in. "Are you still taking Assault Centurions, even with the nerf?" ...Yes. It's what other things I'm not taking in order to make it happen. Like, White Scars and Raven Guard, in order to keep their Centurions, may have to drop one of their three Thunderfire Cannons *clutch pearls my heavens, no!*

    My Dreadnoughts got blasted. Since I run Contemptors, and GW said Vehicles with Invulnerables need to get the sad face.
    Dreadnoughts received a bit of a nerf, just for being a Vehicle.
    But Venerable Dreadnoughts are just fine; Assault Cannon and Missile Launcher - make it happen!

    But also Space Marine Elites choices are filled with Character options. But also there's Aggressors which are still pretty good.

    You could make a Space Marine Brigade. However, I don't know if MSU Storms means running six of them. Like, 4 is maybe enough?


    I guess the looming caveat for Space Marines (and Necrons) is will they get a new Codex so soon, and what does that mean?
    - Will Venerable Dreadnoughts keep their Missile Launcher option?
    - Will Razorbacks keep TACs (if they don't, go, go Land Speeder Storms all day, erry day)
    - Will Concealed Positions stay the way it is?
    - Will Phobos Lieutenants ever not be terrible?
    etc.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; Yesterday at 10:48 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #563
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Big Winners
    Librarians: I guess not so much 'winners', as they become auto-includes, as having Psykers now helps you win the game, or, prevents your opponent from doing the exact same thing.
    I'mma haaaard disagree here. Bringing even a single psyker disallows you from taking the strategy to assassinate enemy psykers—5VP per psyker character, and 3VP for other psychic unit. Psykers cannot complete rituals if they're dead, and against any army that you'd want to deny psychic objectives to... well, assassinating their psykers is easier and gives more VP.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Limited Edition which is designed to sell out, sells out. People get mad about exclusivity, and GW encouraging scalpers.
    Imagine releasing limited editions during recession and restricting your own ability to make money?

    GW backstracks and says that the limited edition, isn't even limited. Everyone who wants one, can have one.
    What they actually said was that it was available for a limited time only, rather than the whole edition, but that they had made ‘literal boatloads’. The limiting factor was intended to be time, rather than overall availability. So moving to print on demand is perfectly in line with what was planned.

    Hopefully they’ll learn from this, and future ‘special’ releases will be produced in a similar way. I’d much rather they didn’t have limited releases, but if they can find a route that allows for these releases to be time limited but not supply limited I’d be much happier. If they’re going to trade on exclusivity, much better to be ‘this was only available at X time’ than ‘only X of these were available’.

    Also, this has likey ruined the days of many scalpers, who are now receiving order cancellations. Good.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Oh look, GW did the thing I said they should do. Happy day!

    Of course, this means I need to resist buying Indomitus even harder, now. Those are very cool minis, and my wallet is not prepared.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    Screw it, I'm getting Indomitus now. Time to work on my only-Primaris chapter.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    I'm still resisting Indomitus because the only units I really want are the Eliminators and Intercessors, and it looks like everything's on its own sprues so will probably be available seperately sooner rather than later. Plus, I have more than enough power armour on my to-do list.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    I'm debating indomitus as well, but then, I play Necrons and Wolves in Space, so I want most of the things in the box.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

    My "Pile of Shame" is way too big to consider adding to it (although I did just pick up Jain Zar and Karandras the Hunter used on ebay for 10 bucks + shipping). No Indomitus for me.
    Last edited by Lord Torath; Today at 10:03 AM.
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